Official Senate Committee Hearing - Electronic Surveillance - Thread 12

[Viva_La_Revolution]

First 10 NSA Hearing threads - Feb. 6 2006 "Gonzo gets Grilled"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=320&topic_id=660&mesg_id=660

Thread 11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x336279#336446

[Catchawave]

1. Thank you Viva.....you ROCK !!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. OMG! He said the prez has already stated we are not going to engage in

torture!!!! OMG...what a LIAR. He's the one who APPROVED the torture!

[Sydnie]

12. They just redefined what torture is, then they can be free to do

everything that is now on the other side of that line that they couldn't do before.

[me b zola]

23. He was SMIRKING when he said it

:grr:

[Sydnie]

3. They are taking mincing words to new heights!

Even with the questions they ask. Parse, Parse, Parse!

[Surya Gayatri]

6. Goddamn, Gonzo's voice is unbearable!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. What questions?

Gonzo hasn't had to open his mouth but twice in the last 5 minutes. :(

[myrna minx]

4. Graham: Congress has the authority to regulate the military.

[mod mom]

11. Inherent authority argument gone too far, says Graham.

[carolinalady]

5. At least Lindsay has the good sense to be scared-it could be

a Clinton using these new urinary powers.

[The Witch]

8. Urinary powers?!!?

:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[carolinalady]

18. Did I say that? Slap my hand! I meant Unitary--hehehehehe.

[Mist]

14. "Urinary powers"?? As in "pissing on the constitution"? LOL nt

[Surya Gayatri]

16. Yes, his point about some future prez

using these "implied" powers was a good one. SG

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Or maybe he has some deep dark secrets

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. STFU Lindsey and just ask the damn question! Oy Vey!

[HereSince1628]

9. Graham seems uncomfortable with Gonzales' credibility to act lawfully

All this stuff on torture is about that.

I'm surprised.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

it's an act.

Don't buy a used car from this man.

[Tinksrival]

39. Wasn't Lindsey a Jag Lawer?

He loves to play lawyer grandstand gottcha?

[gimama]

63. he is pro-Soldier

which I see as different from 'pro-military'..I've watched him on the torture issue,& been surprised at HIS independence,sometimes. He has been a JAG officer, knows Law; also still has some of those old-fashioned CONSERVATIVE, AMERICAN values. So I'm sure this is spooky to him..

[More Than A Feeling]

10. Someone must have gotten to Lindsay

reminded him of how this relates to his pet issue of torture. Good politicking, whoever it was.

[rodeodance]

85. yes, he is surprizing me--but hey--go for it Lindsey

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Well, go figure..Lindsey's concerned about no checks and balances.

:eyes:

On to FISA.

[ShortnFiery]

29. I don't know Lindsey's full background but true Conservative

Republicans (not RW Neo-Cons) believe in checks and balances within our democratic republic. Especially in the past they were highly concerned with maintaining states rights.

[flyarm]

45. LINDSEY WAS A JAG ATTORNEY...N/T

[me b zola]

17. Did I hear Gramm correctly?

Did he say that if the pres is breaking the law, then Congress should pass a law to make him stop??? :wtf:

[displacedtexan]

20. That seems to be Graham's plan.

At least, that's what I heard him say.

[gkhouston]

24. Congress has a different remedy, under the Constitution

starts with an "I"...

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. If that's what he thinks, why didn't he join the Dems and get this

rat bastard under OATH?

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Uh I thought we already had that??

Isn't that what the Constitution is for? :shrug:

[Mist]

47. Thereby letting * skate on anything done previously? not acceptable. nt

[AuntiBush]

70. Did A Double-Take on that Myself - Yes!

Congress "should" pass a law... heard it, too.

[mod mom]

19. Congress gave you a one way highway, not 2 lane highway!

[Chalco]

21. Lindsay is doing well!!!

[TexasLady]

25. agreed....so far

[LeftNYC]

26. agreed...hate the bastard...but I agree

there are different levels of evil I guess...

[Chalco]

31. HOLY MOLY Gonzo admitted he wasn't prepared!

[LSK]

28. ok, who has taken over Lindsey Graham's body???

:wtf:

[gkhouston]

33. Not me.

I'd've given him better hair. ;-)

[moc]

LOL!

:-D

[Sydnie]

36. He must have drawn the short straw for these hearings

The guy that appears to cross the aisle! :rofl:

[gkhouston]

43. ...

:spray:


probably true.

[myrna minx]

38. I know! The real Graham must be tied to a chair somewhere. LOL. n/t

[MuseRider]

48. Whoever it is I guess we should

thank them but I'll bet he wants out, like yesterday!

Thanks for these threads Viva, I am only getting to listen now and then.

[HereSince1628]

32. Is Lindsey up for a Law School professorship? Sounded like it.

[flyarm]

51. LINDSEY WAS A JAG..N/T

[HereSince1628]

58. I know, and that in part is why he talks of the UCMJ.

But the diplomatic tone of his comments was interesting.

[LSK]

34. Schumer up

[More Than A Feeling]

35. So, the Republican attempt to get rid of this will be to amend FISA

if I understood what Graham was saying. that should be an easy fight for us to win, if we are organized as we weren't on Alito

[dogday]

41. And Ignore The Fact They Broke The Law nt

[Surya Gayatri]

54. Yes, this will be part of the Reep rationale--

if the prez was unable to obey the law, it must be a bad law. Not his fault--defective law. SG

[The Witch]

37. Dems should thank Lindsay Graham

We need to let him know that we appreciate asking the tough questions. And he has taken a VERY diplomatic stance on this.

[More Than A Feeling]

46. Just don't let him sweep this whole thing under the carpet

Let's have some impeachment accountability

[MuseRider]

56. Yes we should

and we should make it quite clear just what we appreciated and hold him to it. This guy is pretty good at oozing out of his responsibility holding Bush** people to account.

[Catchawave]

Agree...!

[w8liftinglady]

I sent him a note

http://lgraham.senate.gov/

[mod mom]

40. 3rd part of Jackson analysis: difference between Graham + Gonzo

What is this? I assume it is about inherent authority.

[HereSince1628]

50. here is a link to a NYT piece that includes "Jackson"

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/politics/politicsspecial1/10legal.html?ei=5088&en=7eceaa65ea9de80c&ex=1294549200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[mod mom]

67. and more here:

http://www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/printversion.cfm?documentID=3273&from_page=../program/document.cfm

for later reference. Thanks for your link.

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. Schumer calling Specter out on not showing the tape. GOOD!

[wicket]

49. what tape would that be for the cubebound?

Thanks :)

[gkhouston]

53. it's the one where Bush says that you have to have a court

order to do a wiretap. Olbermann runs it on Countdown fairly regularly.

[myrna minx]

44. Schumer up now.

Schumer wishes that the Bush clip would be played. The pres. was talking about all wiretaps.

[More Than A Feeling]

52. Haha, no serious disagreement on the program

disagreement on operations? aren't those two the same thing?:eyes:

[carolinalady]

59. Be very clear-only testifying about what the President has

confirmed--THERE IS A LOT MORE!!! How do we find it?

[myrna minx]

55. Schumer: The former #2 Comey refused to give it his blessing. Is that true

Gonzales: The has been no serious disagreement about the program that the president has confirmed.

***God-this means there was dissent about other programs they we don't know about.

[deminks]

57. No serious disagreements? Is that why Asscroft would not

approve the program on his hospital bed? or Comey in his absence?

[Nimrod2005]

68. Can we just fry the bastard while he is here on TV?

Just give him the chair and get it over with.

[Mist]

60. Gonzales mincing again--"I'm answering questions about the program we're

talking about TODAY."

[myrna minx]

64. Isn't that disturbing?

:scared:

[More Than A Feeling]

71. Oh, boy, the next Dem Prez better open the shutters

and let the light in all the shit the Bush administration has done. Otherwise, the government will continued to be poisoned by it.

[moc]

72. Yes. Someone needs to call him out on that parsing.

What other programs are there?

[gkhouston]

76. at a guess, our mail and email

is also being illegally pried into. God knows what else.

[Sydnie]

81. jinx!

:rofl:

[gkhouston]

87. hee. Have a coke.

:beer:

[Sydnie]

79. Mail program, infiltrating groups (like Quakers) program ...

You name it, there must be a program!

[More Than A Feeling]

84. Scary thought: how many Americans are in those secret prison camps?

we don't know!

[Sydnie]

104. And they keep bringing that up ... really makes me wonder

Just how many of us have been disappeared.

[The Witch]

61. A thought on Graham's line of questioning.

(These are If-I-Were-a-Senator thoughts, so I give many people too much credit).

Graham is thinking that it would be more constructive to craft legislation to bring Congress and the executive into concert. The difficulty is that any such legislation would be hung up for months and months. And in the meantime, can the President do this? And so wouldn't it be in the President's interest to delay such legislation indefinitely?

To me, any such legislation would have to be a good faith agreement in which the program would have to be suspended pending passage of the legislation. I'd want to work with Graham if he could concede that. Just between now and passage of the legislation, the administration would work through FISA.

(Eh. I'm rambling. I wanna be a politician.)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

83. yes, he's obscuring the real issue.. being a polititian

The pres has ALREADY BROKEN THE LAW. I hope our side will stay focused on that.

[HereSince1628]

62. Gonzales ONLY testifying about what the President has confirmed

there it is again.

There are other programs whose legality needs to be plumbed.

[Sydnie]

65. Only testifying about what the President has confirmed - not discussing

what they haven't told us about yet! That is exactly what he is saying! I swear, they labeled it so they could frame what would be discussed. What is the rest of it called? I want to discuss that too! Damnit!

[deminks]

66. Gonzo: I am only here to testify on what the Preznut has confirmed. (?)

[Tinksrival]

69. " I am only here to talk on what the President already confirmed"

In other words everything else is NONE OF YOUR F'IN BUSINESS!

[The Witch]

73. Specter jumping in to avoid smearing his ass

scared like a little rabbit, so he is.

[Sydnie]

74. Bring in Comey and screw Ashcroft! n/t

[myrna minx]

75. Schumer wants Ashcroft and Comey to

come testify.

[emulatorloo]

78. torture boy squirming -- wont give a yes or no

[AuntiBush]

77. Spector's Smirking...

As if they think it's funny... Anyone watching not on kool-aid would know, Democrats are the statesmen, the ones with the brains & ethics, not REpubs.

[rodeodance]

80. boy, gondo boy is still squirming.

[LeftNYC]

82. WHY WONT HE SAY NO HE DOESNT CARE? nt

[carolinalady]

Because he knows the President will not let Ashcroft sing.

[AuntiBush]

86. And, Specter is Helping Him w/His Answers...

Shouldn't an Attorney General "know" how to answer?

[myrna minx]

88. Will the Admin claim privilege?

Will the rules be the same for Comey as to you?

[gkhouston]

94. my prediction: Comey will INSIST on taking the oath. n/t

[HereSince1628]

89. No offense but Schumer just wasted his time.

Sharp pointed questions is all you need. If the AG won't answer, then put an answer in his mouth for him and move on.

[emulatorloo]

95. Pointing out hypocricy of Admin is not a waste of time IMHO eom

[HereSince1628]

103. round and round about Comey and Ashcroft isn't pointing out hypocrits

[BR_Parkway]

100. No, he asked it so many ways without getting an answer, he can't

come back later and claim he was answering something different, the way he is trying to squirm out from under Russ' questions about his previous testimony.

[mod mom]

90. answer the frickin question!

[myrna minx]

93. SPector just gave Schumer 2 more minutes.

[More Than A Feeling]

91. Specter getting very annoyed

tsk, tsk, one might think he had an anger management problem

[dogday]

99. Please refrain from getting to the truth..............nt

[bettyellen]

92. is he claiming attorney/ client privlege between himself and the pres?

isn't he supposed to be working for all of us?

[Sydnie]

96. He is claiming that Ashcroft and Comey might have that conflict

at least that's how I took it.

[helderheid]

97. apparently his job is to interperet the constitution so long as it pleases

*

[Skidmore]

101. Makes him look all the more suspect.

[gkhouston]

106. why, yes, he is the AG of the United States

not the AG of the President. Georgie keeps forgetting that he is not the country, nor is he king.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

98. THREAD 13 IS UP!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x337291

[deminks]

102. Did Gonzo just say that his client is the POTUS? (!!!!?????)

WTF?

[Sydnie]

107. He was chief counsel to the pResident before he was AG.

So he must be talking about what happened before Ashcroft stepped down.

[Mnemosyne]

105. Isn't Specter fair?

What a nice guy! He gave Schumer 2 minutes.

See he was so fair to the dems in that hearing.

:sarcasm:

[The empressof all]

108. Locked -Discussion continued

Here's the link


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x337291