Can we talk about the “program” for a moment?

[BuyingThyme]

Gonzales’ strategy is based on the word program.

After the NSA spying issue went public, Chimpy started talking about a “terrorist surveillance” “program” by which international communications involving al Qaeda were intercepted.

Gonzales has agreed to answer questions only about this “program.” In other words, all of his testimony before the Judiciary Committee is about the al Qaeda-related components of Chimpy’s spy activity.

I may not be explaining this well, but if you re-listen to the Schumer questioning (both rounds), you might be able to pick up on what I’m getting at.

Gonzales is not testifying about all of the domestic spying which has been conducted by the NSA; he’s testifying about the “program” which, in reality, is a small list of activities which meet a very limited set of criteria (after the fact).

Most of this stuff is going right over Schumer’s head. The rest of them too, but it really shows with Schumer.

[Avalux]

1. I sense that too.

He's talking about "this program" and being very careful to say it often. What other "programs" do they have operational?

[BuyingThyme]

2. Well, at least I'm not the only one. It's sickening.

[leftstreet]

3. You might want to check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x337904

[BuyingThyme]

5. Thank you! At least people here (and at KOS) are getting it.

(I've been listening in the car, so I'm not keeping up with all the threads.)

[spanone]

4. He was very specific to point that out several times today.

You gotta figure if they got the balls for one program, they have more.

[BuyingThyme]

9. The "program" doesn't actually exist. It's a lying strategy.

Gonzales can say, "No warrantless wiretaps have been used on innernational calls under this program," and he'd be telling the truth -- even though thousands or millions have been used in reality.

[atommom]

6. They have programs, Saddam had "Weapons of Mass Destruction-Related

Program Activities." What is so protective about the word "program"? Why is using that term supposed to make us swallow the lies more easily?

[BuyingThyme]

10. The word PROGRAM allows Gonzales to talk about an extremely

limited scope of surveillance activity while looking like (appearing as if) he's talking about something else. It's a lying strategy.

[atommom]

16. Now that I have a moment to think about it, that makes perfect sense.

What a bastard. But if this was his plan all along, why not just be sworn in? Are the weasel words not enough protection for him, once we find out the truth?

[BuyingThyme]

17. Well, if smart people like us are ever again put in charge,

nothing will protect him.

And immunity from perjury is always a nice bonus.

[liveoaktx]

7. VIDEO- example

THIS program

[BuyingThyme]

12. Man, that's worse the second time. This is beyond whitewash.

This hearing is a complete fraud, and I'm starting to have even more doubts about the Dems.

Thanks for the link.

[carolinalady]

8. I was trying to find the original article by the NYT. I think they

know more than they published and worked out a compromise with George. Remember how shocked we were at his brazen admission of guilt the very next day? I believed he and his advisors picked the most likely piece of the program to gain public acceptance to frame the debate from the beginning. Only when you hear the AG do you realize that there is much more. By Shrub disclosing this small piece, he gave the AG the perfect excuse to lie and cover up the really illegal stuff. Now we need to find a brave ex-NSA person to debunk this bullshit.

[BuyingThyme]

11. Links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?ex=1292389200&en=e32072d786623ac1&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=67153
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=226611

[carolinalady]

13. thanks.

[Marie26]

14. good catch

You're probably right that it's a way for him to narrow his testimony enough that he isn't, technically, lying. THIS specific program doesn't track domestic calls, another one does. etc.

[BuyingThyme]

15. He used it over and over again.

(Without the "another one does" part, of course.)

[EFerrari]

18. I think I watched today out of horror more than anything else.

Because we could have and did predict that this would be theatre

[Skidmore]

19. Care to pass this on to the committee members?

Including Specter?

[BuyingThyme]

22. Yes, please.

Well, maybe not Specter. I think he was in on it since before the NYT article.

[SillyGoose]

20. "I am only here testifying to what the President has confirmed."

That tells me that there is more to this 'program' that Junior has not "confirmed" and whatever it is is not being discussed in the hearing or in the public arena for that matter.

These hearings were a sham. I didn't really expect anything to come of them but I would have liked to see some republicans taking this more seriously and not just playing footsie with AG. Specter wouldn't even allow AG to be sworn under oath for cripes sakes. FWIW, I think this will eventually wind up in the SC and we know how it will play out there. I hope I am wrong, but I think Junior is going to skate on this one.

[BuyingThyme]

21. Yes, or, "I am only saying what Bush said."

Pitiful day. Even some people here were fooled.

[BuyingThyme]

23. kcik

[Sydnie]

24. I don't think it is going over Schumers head

I think they all had to acknowledge that there had been limits placed on what Gonzo was going to testify to. It really doesn't matter that Gonzo didn't answer the questions directly because what he did say told more than he had planned. Schumer was asking the questions to get the questions in the record, leading us to what they really do believe is going on but no one can talk about. You have to remember, the other portions of this "program" are still classified and just like Rockefeller, they can't talk openly about it. Even if Gonzo could have answered, he wouldn't have answered about anything that is not already public knowledge. Schumer did a good job, as did many of the other dems, in getting the question out there to fester. Let's just hope it becomes a big boil on their butt as it does.

[atommom]

25. And will this ultimately tie in to KBR's contract to build detention

facilities "to support the rapid development of new programs"? Never realized what a sinisted word "program" could be.

[HereSince1628]

26. It's my sense that Kohl, Feinstein, Feingold and Schumer all get it

Biden is very fed up that Gonzales can't respond to anything that is relevant.

[carolinalady]

27. So is Leahy. He gets it. n/t