For the first time I'm afraid

[Joe the Revelator]

Throughout the last couple of years, I've never felt "fear" even with the terror threats and the like. These protest scare me because they cut right to the core of what I hold dear; the freedom to speak and the freedom to create, without fear of backlash. It frustrating to watch this, and realize that these thousands of people protesting and millions of people supporting the protest and the burning of buildings and the killing are not going to be easy to reason with. It comes down to if we're willing to sell out our most basic rights to keep the peace, or stand up to what amounts to a group of bullies.


I really don't know. I'm venting. But it scares me. For the first time.

[bunkerbuster1]

1. self delete

[Erika]

2. Which bullies?

The Muslims or the bushbots who vetoed an episode on one of our TV shows, Will & Grace, via pressure by the AFA on NBC?

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Its all the same...

NBC gave into the pressure too. The only difference I can find, is that even if NBC would have aired the will and grace episode,chances are nobody would have died over it and the writers of w&g wouldn't need to have police escorts at their homes to keep people from killing them.

Fundamentalism is Fundamentalism, and its going to end up controlling the world if we give into it. Thats the part that "scares" me.

[Erika]

6. Fundamentalism fired up by religion is very dangerous

Plus it seeks to push theocracy on the people, here or elsewhere.

[CJCRANE]

15. I think the fact

that * can ignore the Constitution and detain without trial, kidnap, torture and order the summary execution of foreigners and Americans alike - who are branded as "terrorist suspects" - should worry you far more.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

17. And that is the part that should scare you.

"Fundamentalism is Fundamentalism, and its going to end up controlling the world if we give into it. Thats the part that "scares" me."

[rooboy]

3. You're afraid of people who live in Damascus? Beirut?? n/t

[Gullvann]

4. Well in Norway and Denmark, death threats are flying left right

and center.

Against non-muslims and muslims alike.

[Erika]

7. Maybe keeping the lid on flaming religious Prophets

would have prevented it all. That is what society must address.

[Gullvann]

8. Ironically, the only violence yet reported, though

not in the international press as far as I have seen, is a Palestinian in Norway who was attacked and slashed in his throat in response to the burning of Norwegian flags.

BTW: Breaking news now on Norwegian TV: Norwegian soldiers are under attack by angry demonstrators. 2 wounded. F-16's being called in.

[Gullvann]

9. However, some people are seriously nuts. Just reading a report

from the Iranian embassy attack last night, and they are going on about how we have no democracies in Europe because Chirac is a jew..... *shakes head*

[tuvor]

10. Well, many Christians have endured the baby-Jesus butt-plug industry.

Sometimes religious groups just have to suck it up.

http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php

(I recall finding out about this through some jokey post on DU, FWIW.)

[newyawker99]

19. Hi Gullvann!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[McKenzie]

11. Don't give in to the fear factor - that's what they want - see this

Kurt Nimmo has put this article up on his website>>>

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=209

There was a recent thread on DU about the possibility that the "riots" were possibly a set up designed to inflame opinion against moslems. Kurt Nimmo's article is along the same lines and there is a key point contained therein>>>

<snip>

Amidst the corporate media feeding frenzy over the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September and subsequently reprinted in European media and New Zealand in the past week, one important element has apparently slipped under the wire—the complicity of Danish imams who “circulated the images to brethren in Muslim countries,” according to Charles Moore, writing for the UK Telegraph. “When they did so, they included in their package three other, much more offensive cartoons which had not appeared in Jyllands-Posten but were lumped together so that many thought they had.”

</snip>

So what was the rationale for the apparent sleight of hand by the Danish imans? Either they wanted to provoke hostility against moslems with the distinct possibility of getting their asses kicked bigtime or the imans had another reason. It's difficult to see the benefit in a minority group purposely saying, more or less, "please come and kick the crap out of us". They are a minority group and know damned well that there are groups who would sieze on any excuse to further marginalise moslems. Does it make sense for them to set themselves up? Worth thinking that one through.

The second possibility is a set up for propaganda purposes. Consider the timing.

Propaganda is to a democracy what violence is to a dictatorship. I'm paraphrasing a quote I once read so apologies if that last comment is a bit inaccurately worded. Like a conjurer's trick it's laughable once one sees through the trickery. Same with the fear factor...understand it, confront it and fight back. It's not easy but the alternative is to let them win...don't...never surrender.

[Lexingtonian]

12. I doubt it's those protesters

There definitely has been a change in the public atmosphere in this country over the past two months, more or less a kind of license to revel in paranoia. It's been scary to watch it spread.

I'm very sure it began with Bush's speech on November 30. That was a definite change in Party line, giving up the confident cult doctrine- assertion of Willpower over all things Out There the Pubbies loath- that they touted so bombastically at the Republican Convention in September 2004.

The new doctrine is defensive and a retreat, about maintaining and intensifying the cult (er, "Faith" and Party) as an end in itself. To outsiders that means they pull up high ideological walls and treat anything outside these walls as threatening their institution existentially- they act with sheer paranoia, basically. Among themselves they have to stifle all sources of endangerment, i.e. change- creativity, incremental development, rebellion- to protect the system of the Faith, i.e. the various kinds of Initiates, the secrets that yield Power, privileges, rites, and the person of the High Priest himself.

I think that's what we're seeing. And it affects everyone. We have to field our Constitution to fight this stifling set of grabs at power and the paranoia that is its root.

That's probably what the Arab streets are reminding us of- that at the moment, rather too much of our country finds its Constitution too difficult to adhere to. The previously 'unthinkable' conditions of mob rule and dictatorship are too close for comfort.

[pauldp]

13. Al Qaeda is provoking this. The question is who is Al Qaeda?

Those Mujahedeen formerly (presently?) funded by the CIA/ISI. The Wahabbi fanatics
propagated by the Saudis with our help.

Some big shit is about to go down, and in the end we will be in Iran lapping up oil from the
world's 4th largest supply. Believe NONE of what you see on TV.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm

[CJCRANE]

14. If you're in America

I don't understand how these protesters can affect you...?

And not seeing defamatory Muhammed cartoons in mainstream newspapers is hardly going to change your life...same as people don't complain that they don't get the "Black & White Minstrel Show" on TV anymore.

[Joe the Revelator]

16. It affects me because it is affecting other people, whose values...

are similar to mine. It affects me because we don't live in an insulated world, and what happens in Europe can easily ripple over to america. we're connected as one people, and whats happening to my brothers and sisters in Europe shouldn't happen anywhere that freedom of the press and freedom of speech are cherished rights.

[GoodE2Shoes]

18. Reality

"I hold dear; the freedom to speak and the freedom to create, without fear of backlash."


We were NEVER promised THAT! 0h, our Constitution guarantees our right to free speech and our right to 'pursue happiness' (freedom to create) as we would. However, we are NOT guaranteed protection from the reactions TO what we say and what we create.

We ARE protected from anyone trying to take away our rights in reaction to what we've said--and the police and the court system protects us from (or, at least, gives us legal redress to) a violent reaction by someone to what we've said. However, that is all.

There ARE natural consequences to our actions and what we say. It's part of the right to free speech our audience is entitled to!

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Reactions can be expected....

Killing and destruction of property should not be.