Please do not call these wackos religious

[Joe Fields]

My God is better than your God? God told me to kill all non-believers? If you are an "infidel, I will sacrifice my life to take yours, because my God told me?

This is all BFS. These "people" who kill in the name of religion are just sick, twisted animals who, in my opinion denigrate the sacred covenants of the very esteemed religions they claim to love and follow so dearly. They clearly use religion to "morally" salve their conscionce for their blood lust.

Let's start calling them what they really are: bloodthirsty anarchists.

[mike_c]

1. that is the nature of religion....

You're pissing into the wind of history, IMO.

[Joe Fields]

3. I am very well aware of history.

But all I'm saying is that we should call them what they really are.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

2. Organized religion always breeds fanatics

Its not the faith itself, its the organization of it

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. Unorganized religion

has its share of fanatics, as well. Remember those hermit guys?

Very strange.

[ret5hd]

6. maybe, but how dangerous were they? ...

unless you were afraid of fleas.

[mzteris]

7. Maybe it's just

"religion" itself - organized or unorganized.

Having been "born and raised" very religious - and also being a logical freethinker - I think I can safely say that "believing" causes a serious disconnect with true reality.

It's like finding an adult who truly honestly BELIEVES in Santa Claus. Deep down, they KNOW better, but they can't let it go because they've been - er - taught - all their lives that it is really really TRUE so they can't NOT BELIEVE - thus developing a neurosis - and in some - a complete psychosis.

I'm not saying there isn't some "higher intelligence" (as we're pretty darn dumb as a species so I'm sure there probably IS something of HIGHER intelligence! lol) - just that there is absolutely no way in hell (if you'll pardon the pun) that ANY "religion" has accurately represented what that may be.

There is NO white haired old man.

There is no "heaven".

There is no "hell".

There are no "angels".

There are no "devils".

There are no "demons".

There are no "prophets".

There are no "deities" who have ever walked around on the planet.

There are no "chosen people."

The Bible, The Torah, The Koran will be viewed - someday - in the same light as the Code of Hammurabi, the Baghvad Gitva, the Ennuma Elish and the rest of the myths and legends of early man too intellectually immature to comprehend reality.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. Obviously, as a Christian

I think that some of your "there are no" ARE. And so far I've avoided psychosis. Barely. LOL

I'm the first one to say that some of it is pretty far-fetched, (like the virgin birth and the resurrection) but I have chosen them in my world view for various reasons. However, I am a Chinese restaurant Christian. One from column A, two from B, etc. Adam and Eve, for example, aren't even on the menu.

The interesting thing about religion, in general... all of it, is how prevalent it is. It seems we have had belief systems of some sort since we crawled up out of the water. Some say it is because we are the only species that has foreknowledge of death. Some say it is because we genetically "know" we have a creator. I say it's a grand topic to discuss over nachos and beer.

[Joe Fields]

9. However you choose to believe, I think we can all agree

that anarchy and blood lust has no place in any religion and that no honest compendium of ideas or beliefs couched in the name of religion would embrace such concept.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Agree

100 percent. I take the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" thing very literally.

[mzteris]

14. I was a "chinese" Christian, too

ROFL . . . love the analogy.

It's been a long road in trying to free myself of my upbringing. And I still find my "first thought" is sometimes that of a "Christian" - plus the terminology that's totally imbedded in my psyche . . .

***but I have chosen them in my world view for various reasons.***

But don't you think that creates an inner mental tension? To "believe" something you don't REALLY BELIEVE?

I shocked myself just a few weeks ago when my daughter (still Methodist) was chiding me about my son's complete lack of (Christian) faith - and I responded, "I don't believe that cr*p anymore. I can't believe anyone does. It makes no sense at all if you really think about it."

I still say I'm "Methodist" just a very very liberal Methodist because I am unable to totally give up what I've been indoctrinated with.

I think "man" just needs explanations. And when they aren't forthcoming, they make them up. Thor - thunder, etc. . . And most "men" NEED the carrot/stick of religion in order to be prodded into doing the moral thing. And "leaders" figured out from the very first shaman - that religion is an excellent tool with which to control people.

I believe this resurgence of interest shows religion is in it's last throes. Like a desperate drowning man clinging to a sliver of wood, it's man being confronted with a reality they do not want to face. They (we) WANT to believe in happily ever after. And justice after death. And eternal life. And the bad guys (who had more stuff than us and did bad things to get it) will get their just rewards "after death". I don't buy it anymore. But millions of others - faced with increased knowledge of how the world/universe really works - and ohsodesperately trying to pretend there is NOT a man behind the curtain - thus they are going completely overboard in their denials of science and protestations of GOD rules and indoctrination of their children and anyone else they can lay their hands on.


The whole "Judeo-Christian-Muslim" belief system is based upon complete and total fabrications of imagination. While they "superior being" may exist - it in no way, shape, or form resemblences what man's puny little mind can possibly conceive.

If you look at the history of "religion" - it's evolution if you will - from earliest shamans and myths and legends of cultures from around the world - you can see the common threads. You can also follow the "evolution" of J-C-M from the mythology preceeding that time period. AND the whole Jesus myth is taken almost word for word from other mythology of the day - look up Tammuz just for starters. (Not that there probably wasn't some really great guy named Jesus who did some good things - but no magic, doncha know. Unless he was an alien - but that's another theory. :) )

[Dragonbreathp9d]

26. That is why they call it faith

because you need some of it to believe any of the stuff in religions. I am Christian as well, and I come right out and say that the Jonah and The Whale story is probably completely false, used as a metaphorical teaching tool.

[seabeyond]

5. or lost..... as christ would say. you a christian

i ask

[htuttle]

10. How am I supposed to decide who is 'religious' and who is not?

It's the nature of religion that it cannot be 'proven' through rational means, neither through logic nor scientific observation. Personal 'revelations' are considered to be 'evidence' in the realm of religion. Given the non-rational reality of the entire concept of religion, who am I to say one person's personal revelations and beliefs are religion, while another person's is not?

I am non-religious as a rule. I can't see anything more valid in one religion than another without using tools that religious people themselves don't seem to want me to use in that evaluation, such as whether a religion is internally consistent or logical, does or does not make unproveable claims, whether it's founding myths are historically accurate, etc...

Without being able to use those rational tools in my evaluation, all religions appear to have the same amount of 'validity' to me (very little). It's just that some religious people are more destructive than others (which is true of any category of humans, I'd suppose).

[Joe Fields]

11. I respect your point of view, yet have to say again

that any belief system that advocates violence for violence sake is not really a belief system. It is only an excuse to commit mayhem and murder. It's very simple, in my view.

[htuttle]

15. There are plenty of religions that have embraced and advocated violence

What rational reason is there to assume that they cannot be considered 'religions'? Was the Catholic Church a religion during the Inquisition? What about the religions of the ancient Norse or the Aztecs? Were they not 'religions'?

And if you expand your statement to include 'belief systems' in general it only gets worse. Isn't patriotism (in any nation) a 'belief system' that can excuse mayhem and murder (against enemies)? Wasn't Nazi-ism a belief system?

I don't think you seperate yourself from 'bad religions' or 'bad expressions of religion' merely by denying that they are religions.

[Joe Fields]

19. I have not found violence to be in any of the religious

doctrines of the Catholic faith.

[htuttle]

21. I would refer you to a now arcane work of doctrine...

...named the Malleus Maleficarum, published in 1486. It's been called the most blood-soaked works in human history, and was the official doctrine of the Church (decreed as such by Pope Innocent VIII) during the Spanish Inquisition. It is sort of a handbook describing, in gory detail, how an inquisitioner should torture suspected witches.

It is no longer official doctrine, as far as I know, but I ask again, would you have called the Catholic Church 'a religion' during this period?

[Joe Fields]

24. I am not a religious scholar, nor do I play one on T.V.

Your point may be well taken, and I am probably wrong. Nevertheless, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Solon]

30. May I laugh, for I was raised Catholic myself, and the niavete is funny...

So was Pope Innocent III acting as a representative of the Church when he told the Knights of the Albigensian Crusade: "Kill them all; God will know His own." when asked by them as to how they can tell who is a Catholic and who is a Cathar heretic?

Not to mention the hundreds of atrocities mentioned in the Bible itself. None are officially condemned by the Church, simply ignored as "uncomfortable" today whereas in the past they were embraced, allowing for such atrocities as the Sacking of Jerusalem, killing every single man woman and child within that city that was not a Christian.

[Beelzebud]

12. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a religious wacko.

[Joe Fields]

16. Not true. There are some people on this earth who are,

at least by appearances very charming, but would steal the shirt off of your back if given the slightest chance. How do you think Bush got into office?

[MercutioATC]

17. "My God is better than your God" is a cornerstone of most religions.

If we are using it as a disqualifying factor, what actual religions do we have left?

[converted_democrat]

18. I grew up in a fundy household.. The worst horrors that were ever

inflicted on me came from religious fundamentalists that were sure they were doing what God wanted.. They are nuts, but they have religion to hide behind.. Until all religions renounce the "crazies" this is going to continue to happen.. As long as people can hate and hurt others in God's name, we are going to have this problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Sorry, Joe. No can do.

I'm sure there are plenty of anarchists who would resent you trying to lay the blame for this shit at THEIR feet.

If these folks were killing in the name of Professional Football, they'd be 'crazed football fans'. You don't get to whitewash the extremely bloody, repressive, several-thousand year history of Western Religion merely with the specious assertion that anyone who behaves like a right bloody bastard isn't 'truly' religious.

Nope. Religion and "faith" get enough special treatment and eggshell-walking as it is.

[Joe Fields]

25. I disagree. I believe it does a complete disservice to the Muslim

religion as a whole to link these thugs to "so-called" religious beliefs that fuel their abhorrent acts.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. The "Muslim Religion as a whole" is made up of all those people

who CALL THEMSELVES "Muslim". If you can arbitrarily kick people out for one reason, you can do it for any reason. Shit, you could say "Muslims" enthusiastically support the U.S. invasion of Iraq, merely by defining as insufficiently "Muslim" anyone who opposes it.

It's faulty logic. You don't get to remove Subset "B" from Set "A" just because subset "B" is proving to be a P.R. problem.

[Javaman]

22. Man created god.

Once that is understood, the rest becomes clear.

[mzteris]

29. Amen!

- er - you know what I mean.

:D

[formernaderite]

23. whackos aren't religious?

or all religious are whacko's? I'd go with the latter.

[Rocknrule]

28. "My God has a bigger dick than your God"

to quote George Carlin

[Warren DeMontague]

31. And just to be sure you know it, he drives one of these:

[spanone]

32. ala the Crusades. Fanatacism doesn't discriminate against any religions.