Think of this..... we are discussing, the possibility of not

[HysteryDiagnosis]

"winning" a war, in a country crippled by sanctions, a country with no navy, no air force to speak of, no weapons of mass destruction, no depleted uranium weaponry, no white phosphorous, no nuthin. We are actually entertaining the idea that such a force has the potential to "defeat" the baddest military in the history of the world. Makes you think it's time to invade a country that has exocet missiles, millions in uniform, possible support from Russia AND China etc. Yup, time to bomb Iran and hope that everyone else just sits on the bleachers and says... crap, another field goal.... I don't think so, and it looks like the neocons just don't get it. Maybe they know, and they just don't care, maybe WWIII is what they "believe" needs to happen. All this sh*t just makes me want to go prospect on Mars.

[POAS]

1. Wars can be won, occupations against

a patriotic insurgency cannot be won, no matter the odds.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. I was wondering if we could beat a patriotic insurgency in Iran....

and I was a thinkin we would be far higher than 2200 soldiers in Iran by now... Amurka's problem is that she has forgotten how to win peace.

[POAS]

3. Iran or Iraq?????

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. I was wondering how much worse off we would be by now had

we decided to actually invade a nation that does/did have a serious military arsenal, and potentially WMD's. Imma just thinkin' about what nightmares this administration may have up its sleeve for us.

[POAS]

5. I see, I've been reflecting on these things also and

I'm getting depressed.

Well let's strive for peace and love this year, again, and maybe the God's will smile on our efforts.

[flordehinojos]

6. yes...and will the people ever learn that george bush is not waging a war,

he is waging an OCCUPATION!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Is it possible, that because of America's aging population and

the flagging stock market that the invasion of Iraq was a necessity for financial reasons? Is it possible that it was necessary because of peak oil?? Is it possible that it was necessary because America's biggest export is militarism?? These possibilities give me chills.

[flordehinojos]

12. militarism, oil, financial markets ... power and control

they are bush family values come down through the generations from samuel bush, prescott bush, george herbert walker, george herbert walker POPPY bush... to junior and his bubay. they know nothing else.

[CJCRANE]

15. RW militaristic policies are worse for the economy.

Statistically, Democrats are better for the economy -

http://www.roberthildebrand.com/theright/economy.html

[Lerkfish]

16. occupations never work, because the locals HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO

you can win a war on a larger scale, like WWII, because you can force a withdrawal to original territory. But when you're in the original territory, the occupied will never stop until you're gone.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. And even when we are gone, a war against Paul Bremers

dictates will be waged until they are gone, thrown into the dustbin of history.

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=7769



The Handover That Wasn't

by Antonia Juhasz, Foreign Policy in Focus/Alternet
February 26th, 2005

The Handover That Wasn't
By Antonia Juhasz, Foreign Policy in Focus. Posted July 20, 2004.


Before his departure, CPA chief Paul Bremer issued 100 Orders to
dramatically restructure Iraq's economy to fit free-market ideals. And no
Iraqi, including future elected officials, can undo them.

The U.S. occupation of Iraq officially ended on June 28, 2004 , in a secret
ceremony in Baghdad. Officially, "full sovereignty" was handed from the
Americans to the Iraqi Interim Government. But it was clear from the start
that this was sovereignty in name, not in deed. First, there is the
continued military occupation: 138,000 U.S. soldiers and Marines, plus
20,000 troops from other countries and an estimated 20,000 contractors, all
fully under U.S. control and immune to Iraqi laws. Equally debilitating,
however significantly less well reported upon, is the continued political
and economic occupation by the Bush administration and its corporate
allies.

The most important tools being used by the Bush administration to maintain
varying degrees of economic and political control in Iraq are the 100
Orders enacted by L. Paul Bremer, III, head of the now defunct Coalition
Provisional Authority (CPA) before his departure. It was thought that the
"end" of the occupation would also mean the end of the Orders. Instead, in
his final Order enacted on his last day in the country, Bremer simply
transferred authority for the Orders over to the new Prime Minister, Iyad
Allawi. For his part, Allawi ? a thirty-year exile of Iraq with close
ties to both the CIA and British Intelligence Services ? is considered
America 's new man in charge of Iraq .

[Nimrod2005]

8. It is already done, Bush lost this war......

[rodeodance]

11. tell him that!!

[Nimrod2005]

18. If his own aids can't tell him truths, noone can.....

It is a nightmare we are living...

[TomClash]

9. This begs the question

What does "Winning" mean?

[rodeodance]

10. this thought of not winning---is not in the Rights mind at this time.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

13. At this point in history, with the weapons available to mankind, and

with the planet itself trying to shake us off.... winning will be, beating swords into plowshares and coming up with methods for reversing the climate change that is upon us. It may mean mustering all the military resources of the world to do terra-forming to accomplish this as well as create a sane/safe/stable/renewable source of energy.... otherwise we probably won't have to fight each other, we will have to fight mother nature herself and we will lose horribly... all of us, not just the ones without the F-22's and the WP.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. Either we have lost our persepctive

or there is a hell of a lot I don't know and understand about military isssues. (which could be true)

But I just don't see it. I just don't.

I AM an expert in one thing, though, and that is in accessing how folks feel about these things. I'm always asking, listening, reading. In invasion of Iran will be like a huge pill in the mouth of America that nobody wants to swallow.

[TahitiNut]

17. The right wing suffers from the delusion of a zero-sum world.

It's the "politics of scarcity (scare city)" not the "politics of abundance." In zero-sum thinking, all interactions are "win-lose" ... coin-flipping. A corollary to this thinking is the notion that if you can make an 'opponent' lose that means you win. The objective, under this thinking, then becomes one of inflicting a 'loss' on an opponent almost irrespective of the benefit to one's self. It matters less whether one loses (like 2,200 lives) as long as the opponent loses more. The fascist right wing is following 'lose-lose' foreign and domestic policy approaches. It's like "fight club" - a delusion. Psychotic.

[Richard D]

20. One of the most important reasons a war against. . .

. . . Iran is futile: Strait of Hormuz. Look at it on a map.