Did you see C-SPAN this morning about the new "black boxes" in new cars?

[in_cog_ni_to]

They are now putting little "black boxes" in NEW vehicles supposedly for insurance companies to look at info when claims are filed. The little "black boxes" track your speed and acceleration and other things I can't remember...probably WHERE YOU ARE and the insurance company can then base their payment on what they find from the little black box. Did you see that?:scared: Mr. Cole also said that CA. passed a law that CA. citizens MUST BE TOLD ABOUT THE LITTLE "BLACK BOX" IF THE CAR THEY ARE BUYING HAS ONE. I'm never buying a new car. ALSO....YOU CANNOT REMOVE THE LITTLE BLACK BOX!!!@#$%$#@!@#$

[salin]

1. any idea which companies were installing these?

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. No. he didn't say.

I wish I knew. :(

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. GM. Do not forget their OnStar bull either

spy in your car. They can and do listen in on everything in your car. Even though they say it is activated when your airbag deploys, it is not the case.
AVOID GM. DO NOT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Oh man. My friend has OnStar in her car. I guess I better warn her

she's being listened to and watched. :scared: I will NEVER buy a GM car.

[HockeyMom]

4. Just bought a new 2005 Elantra

I seriously doubt the FOREIGN cars have them. Besides after two American LEMONS, I would only go foreign anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I just bought a new car

Does it have one?

Do you see anything in this picture?

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. CUTE car! That's a SCION?

Call them and ask them if it has a black box. It sounds to me like the car makers don't have to tell you about the boxes and that is why CA. passed the law they passed. :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Yep it's a Scion

I will call. This freaks me out.

[hlthe2b]

26. Let us know, ok?

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. OK I called and they are not there today

or maybe too busy to answer the phone.

[hlthe2b]

32. SCION... who makes them and where?

Did you get a manual or automatic?

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Toyota

It's its own company though. I call it a Toyota clone, like GM/Saturn.

But you get them at Toyota dealers.

It is an automatic.

[hlthe2b]

36. Cool... I need to start looking (although I hope to hold out awhile)

I'll definitely give that a look... Gotta have something big enough for my four-legged girl, but still want something compact. Cute!

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. It's inexpensive too

And the back seats fold down which makes lots of cargo room.

[hlthe2b]

39. ooh, ooh... two more pluses... what color did you get?

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Dark gray but it looks black

It's just like the one on the picture I posted.

[hlthe2b]

41. I haven't seen too many, but that's my fav color so far...

I'd love to buy a hybrid but looks like I'd have to pay twice the cost of the SCION for only about 20% better mileage? I'll definitely give this little beauty another look.

[hlthe2b]

25. ohh. that's cute.... What is that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Scion Xa

I love it. It gets great gas mileage.

[david_vincent]

6. It's far wiser from an ecological standpoint

to keep an old car on the road than to buy a new one, or to fix up an old jalopy and put it back on the road.
The whole subject of cars is one of my pet rants. New cars are insanely overpriced, especially when they're built so you can't work on them yourself. I'd much rather drive something from the 60s or 70s that I can fix myself, and it's far better for the environment anyway. To hell with what people might think - most of them are idiots.
I love how car makers brag about their cars that get 35 m.p.g. They haven't made any progress at all! My parents had cars that got 36 m.p.g. a million years ago when I was a kid, and a friend of mine had an '82 Datsun that got a very carefully measured 37 m.p.g. even when it was 16 years old!
Don't be a sheep. Be a friend to the planet and drive an old car.

[SoCalDem]

9. 91 Honda Accord EX here..Just made a 900 mile trip

ran like a charm.. It has over 150K miles, everything works great..

She's not as pretty as when we bought her as a 2 yr old, but I will not part with that car for a new one..

We also have an 88 dodge truck with 200K miles, an 81 Toyota Corolla wagon with 180K miles, and a 1972 super beetle with a newer engine (40K miles)

I LOATHE car payments and I like knowing eaxctle what's wrong with a car.. I don't like surprises :(

[MrMonk]

43. I feel the same about my '89 Accord.

It's getting hard to start during the mornings (me, too), but I'm going to keep it going as long as I can.

[XOKCowboy]

47. Ooooooooooooo a '72 Super Beetle

My second car was a '71, Orange, racing stripe, IMPE cam, rally wheels. I was stylin'!! My first NEW car was a '72. Unfortunately it was a regular Beetle and it froze me out, even in Oklahoma. Still a very nice, dependable gas sipper of a car. Way ahead of their time.

[kineneb]

11. is what I am planning on

I can't find a body-style replacement for my 2000 Elantra wagon. Only problem is CA smog regs. Sometimes it is impossible to repair the car to pass smog test, so one must replace the vehicle.

[SmokingJacket]

15. I had a '79 Datsun that I wrung almost 20 years out of.

Great mileage, and when it broke, in never cost more than $25 to fix. I loved that car! :loveya:

The pressure to get a new car is such a scam.

[William Bloode]

42. I had an 81' 210.

In over 20yrs never a major mechanical problem Only things ever to go were normal wear out itmes like brakes, hoses, etc. Never left anyone stranded any where. It had over 300,000 when it caught fire and died.

[The2ndWheel]

10. Only makes sense

They're doing things like that in Britain with their cars. It's not called the "Information Age" for nothing. Civilization requires order and control, and it will know who and where you are.

[hootinholler]

13. Any vehicle with an airbag system has one.

It's a small digital loop used in triggering airbag deployment. It has been used in court cases before.

-Hoot

[noamnety]

14. The courts have ruled it's legal to track us without a warrant

"Police suspected the lawyer of ties to a local Hells Angels Motorcycle Club that was selling methamphetamine, and they feared undercover officers would not be able to infiltrate the notoriously tight-knit group, which has hazing rituals that involve criminal activities. So investigators stuck a GPS, or Global Positioning System, bug on Moran's car, watched his movements, and arrested him on drug charges a month later.

A federal judge in New York ruled last week that police did not need court authorization when tracking Moran from afar. "

http://news.com.com/Snooping+by+satellite/2100-1028_3-5533560.html

[Turbineguy]

16. OK, my car (2005 GM model) has a black box

This from the owners Guide:

"Vehicle Data Collection and Event Data Recorders

Your vehicle, like other modern.... (goes into detail on diagnostic monitoring)"

Then:

"In a crash event, computer sysytems, such as the Air Bag Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM) in your vehicle may record information about the condition of the vehicle an how it was operated, such as data related to engine speed, brake application, throttle position, vehicle speed, safety belt usage, air bag readiness, air bag performance, and the severity of a collision. This information has been used to improve vehicle crash performance of future vehicles and driving safety."

OK here it comes:

Unlike the data recorders on many airplanes, these on-board systems do not record sounds, such as conversation of vehicle occupants.

To read this information special equipment is needed and access to the vehicle or the device that stores the data is required. GM will not access information about a crash event or share it with others other than:

. with the consent of the vehicle owner or, if the vehicle is leased, with the consent of the lessee,

. in response to an official request of police or similar government office,

. as part of GM's defense of litigation through the discovery process, or,

. as required by law."

As a Ship's Captain once told me: "If you are going to collide, make sure the Engine Order Telegraph is in "Astern"!" (He was speaking from experience too!)

With anti-locking brakes there may not be any skid marks to indicate you were standing on the brake pedal trying to stop. This data may come in handy.

Obviously the story about "Hold my beer and watch this" is a hoax.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. only with the consent of the vehicle owner or lessee? Yeah, riiiight.

I believe them. :eyes: Big brother has overstepped its boundaries. I'll WALK before I ever buy a vehicle with a "little black box" in it.

[Turbineguy]

19. I think they put the boxes

in to protect themselves from liability suits. Therefore as long as GM is not being sued, you can say, "no".

[kerry-is-my-prez]

18. I'm going to keep buying foreign. Gawd knows what else the govt's doing.

Although half of the foreign cars are really American nowadays.

[dogman]

20. Auto-makers are international now, there is no foreign or domestic.

Parts are bought and sold in an international market. Police pull the black box when ordered and send it to the manufacturer for diagnostics. These intrusions are the work of insurance companies. They are a dominant force in American corporatocracy. They write the legislation for the legislators we elect. That is why we have seat belt laws and implied consent for drug and alcohol testing. They offer incentives to get us to accept this by giving price breaks on insurance if they can not get it legislated. With the technology explosion, I can only say, you ain't seen nothing yet.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. I'm gonna buy OLDER foreign cars.

Screw Big Brother. I remember reading that the Government also wants to start using GPS systems in Hybrid cars so they can charge for miles driven to make up for the lost $$$$$$$$$$$ they won't get with the new Hybrids. Bastards.

[Xithras]

22. "Black Box" is a bit of a misnomer...and they can't track where you are.

Cars have had computer controls and monitors on the engine and drivetrain for decades, and the technology to store your driving habits to optimize performance and fuel efficiency has been used for about a decade. The only thing that's new here is the addition of a flash RAM chip to store the data. You can't remove the black box because it doesn't exist...it's just a separate circuit on the computer your car already has.

And no, they don't track your location. When you're in a wreck, they simply show how fast the car was going, how hard you were pressing the pedals, whether the engine was working properly, and a few other technical details about the cars performance. They simply record the status of the car at the time of the accident.

FWIW, my wifes new minivan has one, and it doesn't bother me a bit. Why should it? If I'm ever in an accident, it's probably the most neutral and reliable witness I'll have to show what the van was actually doing. If you're afraid it will show that you were doing 100MPH before an accident, then DON'T DRIVE 100MPH! I have little sympathy for reckless drivers.

[Gloria]

23. Jack Blood on Genesis Radio was all over this a couple of days

ago with a good interview, too.

Sometimes these folks on these "libertarian" shortwave stations are way ahead of the curve....although I think he is/was a on Providence radio station as well...

[alfredo]

24. they know when you are speeding, they know when you are not.

I wonder if they have GPS in them?

[Xithras]

27. No GPS.

It wouldn't matter anyway. To get your vehicles status history, they have to pull the computer, which disables the entire vehicle. If they can pull your computer, they already know where you're at.

OnStar is a far greater threat to privacy than "black boxes" are. OnStar lets GM (or whoever hands them a warrant) not only track your location and listen to your conversations, but monitor your speed, engine status, and even lock you in if they feel like it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Damn. That's scary as hell, isn't it?

:scared:

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. GPS is next.

Mark my word. They're already thinking about GPS in Hybrids and high mileage cars to charge for miles driven to make up the lost $$$$$. At the end of the month they will read your mileage on the GPS and charge you accordingly for the loss of fuel dollars.:grr:

[alfredo]

48. The Postal Service is thinking about putting GPS on their vehicles.

They will be able to micromanage the carriers, monitoring if the wheels are curbed, how long it takes you to fill your satchel and exit the vehicle. they know how long it takes to do the walking loop from your park point, oh and you better be stopped at your park point.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. I should add...David Cole is a Professor at Georgetown Univ. Law school

and if HE'S concerned about this, I'M concerned. He knows what he's talking about.:scared: and he was very concerned about the little black boxes.

[bobbieinok]

34. brothers + nephew talked abt this X-mas eve in response to my comment

that Britain was going to be watching every car

they said this will also be in US b/c of insurance industry

and again "If you're not doing anything wrong, why is government spying on you a problem???"

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. SICK logic. n/t

[karlrschneider]

44. Uh, of course they can be removed. Jesus.

ANYTHING in a car can be removed. At least *I* can...

:eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. IF you remove the black box, the car doesn't run.

I "think" that was the point. ;) Of course anything can be removed from the car, but if you remove an engine what good is the car?

[cantstandbush]

45. Bottom line, bottom line, bottom line for insurance and other corps.

Repeat after me: Bottom line, bottom line, nothing matters but the bottom line.

[XOKCowboy]

49. It's for your own good...

Settle back

Relax

Don't let the bad thoughts make you upset

We know what's best for you

You're safe

Trust us

[FreedomAngel82]

50. Very scary

:scared: What cars have them? My car is a 2001 and we have a van from the late 90's. I have an altima.

[REP]

51. Most GMs Have Had a "Black Box" Since 1994

"The benefit of retrieving data from fllight data recorder using the Black Box was only available to airlines for many years. This invaluable instrument, which helps determine what happened in the critical time before a crash, is now available as Airbag SDM crash data retrieval system on GM cars.


The capability to record pre-crash data has since expanded with time and technological advancement. General Motor's Vetronix crash data retrieval tool (CDR) collects vehicle crash data via the air bag system SDM.

Software, hardware and interface cables allow recorded data such as Delta V, driver seat belt usage and pre-impact data to be downloaded to commonly used computers in easy to read format. Interface cables that connect directly to the airbag module are available for vehicles that cannot be powered up after a crash.

This new technology then also makes it easy for investigators to input other vital information, like weather conditions, and send the data to a remote database. The final 5 seconds leading up to an accident event is very vital information that can be stored at the airbag SDM module recorder. This process can only be done using the Vetronix CDR equipment and a PC.

Includes most 1994 and newer Chevrolet, GMC, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Cadillac, GM trucks, Saturn, and Hummer vehicles have GM airbag SDM recorded data coverage."

http://www.motorpoint.com.au/gmblackbox.asp