Soldiers Are Backing Off Of Support For Bush

[bigtree]

Troops sound off
Military Times Poll finds high morale, but less support for Bush, war effort

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2005_main.php

{snip}

Four years of combat have done little to dent the morale of the professional military, results of the 2005 Military Times Poll show. But there are also hints in the results that the wave of good feeling may have crested.

Support for President Bush and for the war in Iraq has slipped significantly in the last year among members of the military’s professional core, according to the 2005 Military Times Poll.

Approval of the president’s Iraq policy fell 9 percentage points from 2004; a bare majority, 54 percent, now say they view his performance on Iraq as favorable. Support for his overall performance fell 11 points, to 60 percent, among active-duty readers of the Military Times newspapers. Though support both for President Bush and for the war in Iraq remains significantly higher than in the public as a whole, the drop is likely to add further fuel to the heated debate over Iraq policy. In 2003 and 2004, supporters of the war in Iraq pointed to high approval ratings in the Military Times Poll as a signal that military members were behind President Bush’s the president’s policy.

The poll also found diminished optimism that U.S. goals in Iraq can be accomplished, and a somewhat smaller drop in support for the decision to go to war in 2003.

more: http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2005_main.php

and this,

Disconnect cited between troops, civilian leadership

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2005_gapside.php

{snip}

From Congress to the White House to the Pentagon, the career-oriented heart of the military appears increasingly estranged from its leaders in Washington, according to results of the 2005 Military Times Poll.

The poll asked active-duty members if they believed several leadership institutions had the military’s best interests at heart. The results:

• 58 percent agreed that President Bush had their best interests at heart, down 11 percentage points from a year ago.

• 64 percent agreed that senior uniformed leaders had their best interests at heart, down six points.

• Congress saw the most dramatic drop: Just 31 percent agreed Congress looked out for their best interests, less than half the number a year ago.

It is unclear whether respondents identified Congress more with the current Republican leadership , or with minority Democrats who have increasingly called for a quick pullout from Iraq , something most poll respondents oppose. Based on follow-up interviews with poll respondents, the heated debate itself may be a factor.

“Collectively, they can’t make a decision together,” said Navy Machinist’s Mate 1st Class James McKelvy, an instructor at the U.S. Naval Academy. “It’s really hard to take orders from a body of people that really seems like they don’t have their act together.” Well-publicized problems supplying combat equipment may have hurt the image of leaders across the board.

more: http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2005_gapside.php

[C_U_L8R]

1. Reorg in the Line of Succession

Could they be smelling a coup (or mutiny) over at the Pentagon?
Why insert all those civilians ???
Things are not going well for Bush.. and there's much we don't know

[bigtree]

11. The regular military probably is growing more resistant to their ambitions

The Intelligence post that Bush elevated above the Army, Navy, and Air Force is held by a conservative cronie, Stephen Cambone:

Stephen Cambone: Rumsfeld's henchman
Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone is Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld's right-hand man and a key figure in the right's web of militarists. He is also tagged as "Rumsfeld's henchman". http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FE25Aa02.html

[otohara]

2. Disappointing Results

the man is incompetent, doesn't deserve any support.

[bigtree]

4. In 2003 and 2004, supporters of the war pointed to high approval ratings

in the Military Times Poll as a signal that military members were behind President Bush’s the president’s policy."

That's what makes this poll significant.

[tabasco]

3. I'm surprised the numbers are still around 50%.

I've spoken to several Army troops in the last few months and EVERY SINGLE ONE was disgusted with Bush and Iraq.

[bigtree]

5. That seldom trickles down to a poll like these numbers seem to show

There must be a good deal of resentment to push a military poll.

[B Calm]

7. I wouldn't be too surprised. This poll was taken with military

subscribers of Army Times. I'll guarantee you this is not a large enlisted group, more like a small group of officers and lifers! This is troubling to the Bush administration.

[dennisnyc]

14. and i think a poll is taken EVERY year

subscribers tend more toward the officer corp

[MADem]

18. Thank you for pointing that out--there is a key distinction, here

The "subscribers" who are doing the voting, by and large, are stateside, or esconced in easy overseas jobs, and don't want to pay full price for their dose of service-specific news and gossip (you get a discount for subscribing, and don't have to worry if a juicy issue gets sold out at the local command exchange, or the command copy gets swiped by the senior leadership and taken home). These lucky sonsabitches aren't driving a Humvee in the sandbox, but driving a desk in an air conditioned or well heated office. It's real easy to support the war when an ocean or more separates you from the action. Finally, these "Army Times" polls are also carried in Air Force Times, Navy Times, and so on--and those two branches are not doing quite the heavy lifting that the Marines (technically a subset of the Navy, but they do have their own "Times") and Army are doing.

In fact, the point you make, which is a good one, is acknowledged in the poll methodology:

The mail survey, conducted Nov. 14 through Dec. 23, is the third annual effort by the Military Times to measure the opinions of the active-duty military on political and morale issues. The results should not be read as representative of the military as a whole; the survey’s respondents are on average older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more career-oriented than the military population. But the numbers are among the best measures of opinion in a difficult-to-survey population. The professional military seems to be lessening in its certainty about the wisdom of the Iraq intervention and the way it has been handled,” said Richard Kohn, a professor of political science at the University of North Carolina who studies civil-military relations. “This seems to be more and more in keeping with changes in public views, and that’s not surprising.”

When the ones who are most invested in everything going along swimmingly start to balk, it is telling.

Also, I should like to point out that I have noticed this erosion of uniformed support for SOME TIME now--ever since the cakewalk became a quagmire, in fact. However, the good servicemember keeps their mouth shut rather than disagree with leadership--it's not only a way to stay out of serious legal jeopardy (a consideration if you are supporting a family--principles are one thing, but they do not buy diapers and baby food, or pay the rent), it's simply the classy thing to do. The rank and file hold their breath, and hope and pray that the senior military leadership can talk some sense into the civilians who control the military.

You won't hear military voices from Iraq much anymore except by way of snail mail, as they've shut down the blogs, limited email access, and they are READING the email aggressively now--if you are communicating in this fashion with anyone over that way, keep this in mind. Rummy put the word out, and clearly he took a page from the former WH press secretary--Watch what you say, watch what you do....

[bahrbearian]

17. He did give them a Turkey last year ,, they still appreciate that.

[Oldtimeralso]

22. The Turkey was

as phony as his election.

[oasis]

6. It's still sad that so many of our troops are addicted to Kool-aid. When

you listen to them talk about the Iraq situation it's all Rush Limbaugh blather "we freed the Iraqi's from a tyrant".

Not too much on the WMD.

[bigtree]

8. I don't have as much scorn for the soldiers as I do for the leadership

I'm not going to judge how they should react to their mission from here. I am certain that it's a reflection of the mindwash that goes on among the services to effect whatever reaction the leaders want out of these men and women. I believe that they would respond just fine to a different mandate that didn't involve nation building and conquest.

[Peace Patriot]

9. I can't imagine a more captive and brainwashed group for a poll,

than active military. They have no choice of commander in chief. Psychologically, many must feel compelled to find some justification in what they're doing. It must be extremely difficult to be in danger, and to see buddies wounded and killed, and to understand that it's all for nothing--for oil companies and major looters like Halliburton. They are being commanded by the puppet of a major crime syndicate. But they are not in a position to acknowledge that--or only the most intellectually brave among them could do so. For one thng, understanding the illegal nature of this war, and the terrible war crimes that have been committed, would begin to put you in a position of having to object, or refusing to serve. And that takes truly uncommon courage. It's easier not to think, and not to seek out information. And in addition to what is likely daily indoctrination by local commanders--to whom it has been made very clear that toadies and yes-men are preferred, in Rumsfeld's army--these troops likely have very limited access to alternative information. Until recently, they were getting only RUSH LIMBAUGH on a daily basis, as political news on the home front.

Even given all this--the near impossibility that active military have anything close to an objective view of the situation--the drop in support for Bush is remarkable and dramatic. The anti-Bush numbers are far more resonant in this poll, than in any other. If you could eliminate the troop isolation in the hell-hole of Iraq and other stations, and the indoctrination, and somehow give them free access to information, I'm sure the anti-Bush numbers would be much higher. But they are important, as it is.

[bigtree]

10. that's a fine explanation Peace Patriot

I think it should dawn on folks that we were beat over the head with this same poll when it showed a slightly higher level of support for Bush than the public ones, no surprise.

Now we have a survey in hand that clearly shows an erosion in his own base, on his own turf. Anyone who doesn't think they need this poll in their antiwar debate is going to be short one hell of a bludgeon in their arsenal.

[TankLV]

15. Um - it never did change from the exclusive domain of Limpballs.

"Until recently, they were getting only RUSH LIMBAUGH on a daily basis, as political news on the home front."

Not true - they never did get any alternative to that chickenshit chickenhawk idiot.

No other alternative exists, never did.

Air America radio never got off the ground - and that was going to be the only alternative.

[0007]

12. hello, hello, anyone home......Rummy are you listening? The unknowns

are speaking to YOU loud and clear.

[MADem]

19. Ah, yes, the "fungible assets" as I believe he referred to our loved ones

over in that hellhole....

[dennisnyc]

13. the quote from the Navy Machinist is suspicious. Everyone in the military

knows that they "take orders from" the President and that after Congress has declared war (hahaha) the pres is the commander in chief.

The clear break is between the neocon/vulcan idiots and the serious career military that want to help/protect the united states.

[MADem]

20. If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all

Even the pollsters in essence admitted that their results were only slightly less stinky than dogshit, really:

As in the previous two years, Military Times Poll respondents were reluctant to express opinions, even anonymously, about the commander in chief or his policies. About one in five refused to say whether they approved of the president’s performance on Iraq or overall.

“That’s my boss,” Army Lt. Col. Earnestine Beatty said in a follow-up interview. “I can’t comment.” Kohn said he worried that asking such questions of military members and publishing the results could tarnish the military’s image as a nonpartisan institution.

My take: the one in five who refused to say anything had NOTHING good to say...

[DemGirl7]

16. too sad

You would think since these are the people at the front lines, they would be able see that * and the other crooked republican assholes really don't care for their real interests more often. I guess they must serve really some strong Kool-aid to these people.

[carolinalady]

21. I figured this was happening when Murtha spoke out loud. n/t

[mymomwasright]

23. ATTENTION! ATTENTION!

Keep in mind that the military times only polls subscribers (usually career people with more than 4 years in). This is still significant considering that the drop was among them. One must be a little dedicated to proffesion to subscribe to the weekly(s). Military Times does not go up to 'Private Smith' to ask him how he feels. If they did random on the street samples the result would probably be lower.:patriot:

[mopaul]

24. bushco is in it's final throes

when the military gives up, it's over.

[bigtree]

25. There should be a lasting mistrust of Bush's leadership among these folks

for any future trampling.

[lpbk2713]

26. The figures are probably worse than they will admit.

When you consider that all info released regarding the military by the military is usually filtered pretty severely.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

27. Yup...

My thoughts exactly.