Well, now we're seeing why the DLC is as screwed up as it is.

[Plaid Adder]

Ooh, look, the Republicans are already attacking Clinton and Carter for having 'politicized' Coretta Scott King's funeral.

This is why the party's 'leadership' is in such pitiful shape: because every time someone does something that might actually make it look like the party stands for something, the media machine goes blasting away at them. BAD Democrat! How DARE you give a speech that actually connects with the audience and means something! How DARE you sound like something other than a robot! How DARE you inject humanity into the proceedings! How DARE you point out that before Martin Luther King Jr. was a saint he was a political activist who was well-hated by the same bunch of powerbrokers whose ideological descendants are now currently destroying the Constitution? That was BAD! It was INAPPROPRIATE! NO BISCUIT! DON'T EVER DO IT AGAIN OR WE WILL TAUNT YOU A SECOND TIME!!

And the idiots at the DLC fail to recognize that this kind of response has absolutely no truth content. It is an exercise of power which is purely strategic. The goal is to 'train' Democrats to avoid doing anything that would challenge the Republicans' self-declared monopoly on cojones, straight-talkin', resolve, staying the course, and connecting with the average American. But because the "new Democrats" don't _get_ that, they keep thinking, well, if only we make ourselves completely and utterly bland and tasteless, maybe we won't offend anyone, and then they won't yell at us any more.

No. _Any time you do something that is useful to the party, the media will come down on you like a ton of bricks._ That's how you know you're doing something RIGHT.

That memorial service was a gigantic humiliation for Bush and it also completely destroys any claim he might ever have felt like making to the moral authority represented by the King legacy. Of course they're all whining about it. GOOD. We want them to whine MORE. That's how we'll know we got 'em running.

:argh:

The Plaid Adder

[fooj]

1. I know that Matthews is an asshole...but I sent him this anyway.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2444475&mesg_id=2444475

Peace.

[NoodleyAppendage]

54. Ouch! Nice letter...doubt he read it, though.

I particularly like the "soul selling" aspect of your letter and the plea towards any remaining sense of decency.

Cheers,
JB

[patrice]

2. Could you direct me to a story about the service today?

One that actually tells what happened?

[democrank]

17. patrice....

I think C-Span is reairing the service tonight around 8:00 or 8:30 EST. Watch it if you can, especially President Carter`s part. I`ll never forget it.

[patrice]

21. Thank You crank.

I love President Carter.

[LisaLynne]

3. So true!

It's like the Republicans can just say stuff about the Dems and too many of them seem to accept it as true. "Oh, we shouldn't have done that? Oh no! We made a mistake! We have to apologize!" No, if the corrupt Republicans, and their pets in the corporate media, are saying you shouldn't have done something, believe me, you should do MORE of it! It's pretty simple. They get nervous when Dems look like they're going to do something and they know that by criticizing them in the media, they can scare them off. SHRUG IT OFF, DEMS. You are never going to please the Republicans anyway -- unless you BECOME THEM! So quit trying! If they don't like what you're doing, you know you're doing the RIGHT THING!

Ugh!

Thanks, Plaid Adder, for consistently getting to the heart of things!

[me b zola]

4. Bingo.

And when THEY trash Dems who are working for good, it gives legitimacy to the repukes arguments. For that reason, I have begun to believe that a repuke in Lieberman's seat (for instance) would do our party LESS harm.

[LSK]

5. K&R

#5

[shance]

6. If the DLC chooses not to see the bias, then we have to ask why?

Is it because they are a group which is fueled by individuals who's agenda is to totally neutralize and invalidate any opposition, thus making a one party system.

Look at the actions and words of the DLC leaders and look at what adds up. There is the answer.

[Warpy]

10. Hell, I just look at who controls all 3 branches of government

and the picture is clear to me. Whether or not they intended the GOP to seize control, they certainly managed to accomplish it. Having accomplished it, they certainly have no intention of changing it.

Sorry, DLC, but I will no longer participate in the destruction of my country, and I don't give a shit what letter you guys stick next to your names. If you can't either get your act together or get the fuck out of the way, you can kiss my vote goodbye.

[shance]

30. Tooshay darlin.*

Absolutely.

[Greyhound]

48. I think that's the plan. If you start with the assumption that the DLC

is the 5th column of the RNC, their actions and positions start to make much more sense.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. The Republicans would protest an Irish Wake if it benefited them.

[xchrom]

8. woops! there it is!

indeed -- the goal is to train the democrats -- and to train the ears of the public.

if a democrat opens his or her mouth -- it's a bad message -- whether it's too political or muscaular, aggressive -- or comes out elitist, soft. weak.

train the listener that bad things come from there.

[leftchick]

9. This DLC Stalwart's history explains a lot. Did you know this?

The DLC is not at all about getting Democrats elected. Quite the opposite....

WHEN YOU'VE LOST THE NEW REPUBLIC . . . Tapped's new favorite thing is the Federal Election Commission database where you can type in anyone's name and see if he or she has donated money to political candidates or parties. (Tapped's old favorite thing was The Washington Post's home buyer database, where you could learn how much your neighbors spent for their apartments.) So check out this nifty little listing (go here and search for "Steinhardt, Michael") that we discovered while trying to see which big-shot New Democrats were supporting which Democratic presidential candidates: According to this list, Michael Steinhardt, former Democratc Leadership Council stalwart and part-owner of The New Republic, gave $2,000 to Bush-Cheney '04 Inc. on June 20, 2003.

Now, we know that there's often little direct relationship between a magazine owner's politics and the views of its writers, but it is a notable thing when one of the more prominent New Democrats around starts financing the continuation of the Bush administration.

http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2003/07/index.html#001288


:grr: :argh: :banghead:

[RazzleDazzle]

13. can you fix your link, please

[leftchick]

18. it works now

sorry. He also donated to McCain 1999. Check out the donation link. It is one of the best I have seen.

[RazzleDazzle]

11. This seems relevent --

The Politics of Victimization
(Mel Gilles, who has worked for many years as an advocate for victims of domestic abuse, draws some parallels between her work and the reaction of many Democrats to the election.-- Mathew Gross)
http://mathewgross.com/blog/archives/001041.html

Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the new language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed, discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear the cacophony of voices, crying out, “Why did they beat me?”

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if they have heard this before.

They will tell you, every single day.

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can’t stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can’t seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

snip

[AtomicKitten]

12. I fail to see how the DLC is involved in your rant.

It's the Republicans that are complaining.

If you're pissed at the Dems for not coming back in their faces, why blame the DLC? If you need to blame someone for your frustration, that would be the Dems en bloc.

All this kvetching about the DLC is wailing at a straw man. You're giving them way more power than they have in reality. They are an organization more interested in elections and platforms, not this day-to-day machinations within the party.

And, quite frankly, I'll let Carter's and Clinton's words speak for themselves. I don't see a need to even acknowledge the Republicans whining about it. Let them wallow in their BS.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Indeed. The Dem leadership and the DLC are two different animals

It's like being mad at one kid, and smacking the other.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClintonTyree]

43. You haven't been paying close attention........

if you think the DLC is a straw man. I certainly don't think we're giving them more power than they have in reality. They have immense power because they're the ones sucking up to Corporate America, they're the ones with the big money behind them. Now why do you think that is? :shrug: Because the DLC Democrats guarantee that no matter who is in office, it will be business as usual. The rape of our environment won't stop, the bludgeoning of the American worker won't stop and Corporate America will still call all of the shots. And these are "Democrats"?
Bill Clinton was a very good President, he could have been a great President. However, I'll never forgive him for NAFTA and a few other major concessions to Corporate America. Bill Clinton was DLC, just as Hillary is. The entire slate of DLC approved candidates coming up is no different. Corporations run this country now, not politicians, and the DLC is more than happy to be their willing servant.
"They are an organization more interested in elections and platforms, not the day-today machinations within the party". Well, that about sums it up. Who we're running for those elections and what platform they form IS the problem. The platform, as far as I can see is, "more of the same". The candidates running for election? Mostly "Republican-Lite". Whoever controls the money controls the party, that would be the DLC and it has to stop if we ever want a REAL Democrat back in office. Today's "Democrats" are Nixon Republicans. It's sickening! :puke:
The only hope we have is a grass roots effort to wrest control of our party back from the Corporate Democrats. If we fail, it won't make a bit of difference WHO is in the White House, it'll just be "more of the same".
I'm not trying to dis you here, I mean no offense. But I think the DLC is a HUGH!!11!! problem ;)

[Joe Chi Minh]

46. A penetrating analysis.

[AtomicKitten]

51. I don't think they are a series or hugh problem - let me explain why

First of all, you are the first to disagree nicely on this issue. Thanks for that. And for full disclosure, I was a political writer not too long ago and have a pretty good grasp of who they are.

I just don't give them nearly as much credit for being an adversary today. When Howard Dean demonstrated that we the people can pony up as much cash as they can, it deflated them and their influence considerably.

Their point about being careful about the strident tone about domestic wiretapping wasn't exactly wrong, but a warning was in order nonetheless. The REAL enemy is already fine-tuning their caustic election rhetoric, planning to use what they call the Dem's opposition to the "terrorist surveillance program" to make them look weak. It was a well-deserved warning although not precise in its remedy. What the Dems need to do is turn this issue back on its ass to be what it really is - illegal domestic spying.

To be specific, the DLC are assclowns IMO. It is their ideology people object to, as I do. However, they are also Democrats and I don't think it's right that people want to shove them out of the party.

Perhaps I am confident that we will have a hugh :) say in the primary process simply by virtue of $$$ behind our collective voices.

Now we just have to settle on a candidate we can all, or most of us, agree on. Gore, are you listening?

Ps. Again, thanks again for your civilized tone in begging to differ. I really appreciate it and we could use more of that around here, because as it turns out we aren't that far apart in our thinking most of the time.

[formercia]

14. Of all people, Fearless Leader has no cachet,

especially after his response to the events before, during and after Katrina. What he did and didn't do in regards to New Orleans is tantamout to ethnic cleansing. He doesn't even have the shame not to show his face to that congregation.

[democrank]

15. Bush`s moral bankruptcy

was held up for the world to see today. I loved every minute of it, especially knowing that this wasn`t his standard hand-picked audience. Let him bellow about being a freedom spreader. You can`t fool all of the people all of the time. He got exactly what he deserved.

[snowbear]

16. But... President Clinton is part of the DLC... so..

..I can see putting down the gawd-awful, lice infested, rashy assed ReTHUGS.

But.. President Clinton is part of the DLC.

Was there a comment from someone at the DLC indicating that what Carter and Clinton said was innapropriate?

Sure, Tweety said it. But who at the DLC bashed anything that Democrats said today?

Thanks for the clarification. I must've missed something.

[Joe Chi Minh]

45. I seem to remember reading that in response to Mehlman's

criticism, posters, presumably in your camp, Melissa, were marvelling at how even-toned, calm and measured (not necessarily their exact words) she was in her speech - as if to say, far from being guilty of passion, nay, anger, she was a MODEL of decorum and propriety - so civilised!

I certainly don't recall reading that she rounded on Mehlman and told him his fortune in no uncertain terms. Lambasting his expectation that Democrats should simper in lily-livered murmurs at the never-ending succession of surreal outrageous his friends have been perpetrating on the nation.

Favoring the mercantile ethos of Monsanto as an apt paradigm for the civil government of a democratic nation does not readily commend itself as a matter for tentative measured criticism.

Am I mistaken?

[Kurovski]

19. "...That's how you know you're doing something RIGHT..."

The Republicans have spent a lot of time and money on training Democrats in a way similar to that of an abusive spouse training other household members.

Walk on eggshells, don't challenge any accusations or attacks, make yourself invisible to avoid future attacks, walk around constantly obsessed with trying to figure out what "you're" doing wrong and what you can do to curry favor.

You can't ever do anything in a sick relationship but get up and leave it behind.

[ClayZ]

20. Speak Out!

The Weight of a Snowflake

"Tell me the weight of a snowflake," a coalmouse asked a wild dove.

"Nothing more than nothing," the dove answered.

"In that case I must tell you a marvelous story," the coalmouse said. "I sat on a fir branch close to the trunk when it began to snow. Not heavily, not in a raging blizzard. No, just like in a dream, without any violence at all. Since I didn't have anything better to do, I counted the snowflakes settling on the twigs and needles of my branch. Their number was exactly 3,471,952. When the next snowflake dropped onto the branch--nothing more than nothing -- as you say -- the branch broke off."

Having said that, the coalmouse ran away.

The dove, since Noah's time an authority on peace, thought about the story for a while. Finally, she said to herself, "Perhaps there is only one person's voice lacking for peace to come to the world." - Source unknown

[northamericancitizen]

47. Beautiful story. Thank you ClayZ nt

[mzmolly]

22. Today's service brought needed attention to the slumbering American

populous. The Republicans/media are going to try to tell US how to mourn again. The king family, Carter and others are not gonna swallow their shit. Sure the MSM will try to "Wellstone" us again via the king memorial, but their efforts will be futile this time.

As for the DLC, thankfully they don't get the press Dean does. The DNC represents our party, the DLC is nothing but a special interest group and they can kiss my freaking ass.

/rant

Thanks PA you nailed it regarding the media and why Dems can't do a damn thing "right" no matter what.

[LittleClarkie]

23. What are you referring to exactly?

The party leadership, and the DLC, are two different things. Did a spokesman for the DLC say something in particular?

It just seems like your rant is at one group of people, the DLC, and somehow that's getting mixed up with Democratic Party leadership. Dean's not DLC. Reid isn't DLC. Our louder voices aren't DLC: Feingold, Kennedy. Kerry's another loud voice lately, and he is DLC, but doesn't act like it most of the time (and in fact they treat him like a red-headed stepchild half the time).

So, I'm confused. Who are you yelling at exactly, and what did they say?

[EFerrari]

24. Agree. It will take several weeks of screened and drooling audiences

for That Felon to get over this day.

There is an up side, you know. :)

[Kurovski]

27. Maybe his ol' pal Jim Beam can help in the meantime.

:-)

[unblock]

28. this relates very much to my "the truth about the truth" post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=331396&mesg_id=331396


clinton and carter speak the truth, with logic, reason, and facts, and connect with the people who actually heard them and spent the time necessary to think through it. often this only take listening to the full speech, rather than just the selected, editted sound bite.

then the banana republicans and the msm come along and tell everyone the "truth" about the speeches. i.e., they present their side as if it were the truth and act like there's no other possible truth. this works because THIS IS HOW PEOPLE LEARN THE TRUTH. they rely on the reactions of people and the witnesses and the reporters.

if "everyone" who saw the speech says clinton and carter were just taking advantage of a funeral to advance a partisan political agenda, then that becomes the "truth" if that's the only version of the story you hear about. so the banana republicans and the msm are taking advantage of their monopolistic control of the political content of the media to catapult their version of the "truth".

[smoogatz]

29. The DLC are whores and capitulators.

They're so afraid of Kkkarl Rove they've decided it's safer to grease up and bend over than put up a fight. Give me fightin' Russ Feingold anytime.

[qwlauren35]

31. I think someone is mistaking which King Died!

Like Bill vs. Hilary, not all of Coretta's views were Martin's. She had many of her own. I'd like to hope whoever was eulogizing was wulogizing HER, and the work she did over the past ~40 years, as well as the role she played as a partner to her husband's efforts.

I'm attaching a website so that people will know more about who SHE was, and which issues she was most focused on.

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/kin1bio-1

From what I'm seeing, she spent the last 40 years championing economic justice, encouraging international peace, fighting apartheid, encouraging disarmament, and most recently supporting AIDS education and gun control.

Frankly, if the woman wasn't a Democrat, I'd eat my hat. With that particular list of concerns and that direction of her activism, there's little you could say about her work that wouldn't raise the liberal flag.

Frankly, if the ONLY thing mentioned was creating the King Center and lobbying for her husband's holiday, then there is no acknowledgement that Coretta was ever her own person with her own views, 38 years after Martin's death.

I hope the other Women Democrats on the board would echo this sentiment.

[EFerrari]

35. Have no fear. Maya sang a love song to this amazing woman.

:toast:

[killbotfactory]

32. Yep

You don't inspire confidence in people when you always come from a position of weakness. In this case "oh please don't whip us (DLC) master! (media) we'll be good!".

You can't constantly take a defensive posture, sometimes offense is needed.

[robbedvoter]

33. They don't "fail to recognize". They are in league with them. 5th column.

I stopped giving them the benefit of this doubt when it came to Alito.

[bread_and_roses]

34. Right on target, as usual. Thanks (n/t)

[bettyellen]

36. wow, i got cursed at and my post deleted for agreeing with you.

[slay]

37. DLC = Destroy (what's) Left (of the) Country

People should do what he or she feels to be right, regardless of political philosophy. I find the DLC to be the largest problem we as Democrats (other than rigged elections) must deal with. They cost us election after election by trying to make us more like (ugh) Republicans. Wake up DLC - US DEMOCRATS WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR DLC CRAP - NOR DO WE WANT TO BE REPUBLICANS! We elect yall NOT to be like the Republicans. So WAKE UP - it's time to grow a pair. Stand up for the common man - do what's right! :patriot:

[BrewerJohn]

38. Norquist has said that's what the plan is, in so many words

--the "training" plan. Why so many don't get that, when it's right out there, is
beyond me.

What would be really good is if the Dems all caught on to it and turned it
around. (This is my fantasy; bear with me.) They could go on and make one
bold move after another, every day. Make the media whores crank up the fake
outrage to a point beyond surrealism as they try to keep up.
Make their heads explode on live TV.

Well, so much for fantasy.

[farmbo]

39. "Tonight On Hardball: The Dems Sound More Like Bin Laden Than Ever!"

...and host Chris Mathews actually pees his pants on air in our second half hour.'

Let's Play Hardball!

[LincolnMcGrath]

40. Spot On TPA!

It is funny to the point of being sad at times around here. The DLC cheerleaders brag one day that many elected Dems are signatories of the DLC, then when the continual systemic failures of new dem leaders are called onto the carpet, then suddenly the DLC is only a think tank. The DLC cheerleaders can not have it BOTH ways.

[cyclezealot]

41. Particularily proud of Jimmy Careter.

He is thank god a free spirit. He said what needed to be said. And the mourners loved it. How could we possibly not realize how orchestrated governmental harrassment tried to destroy Martin Luther King's works. No personal attacks were made on Bush II. If the shoe fits. The streaming on the preceding thread ( of Jimmy Carter's speech is awful on my connection.) anywhere we can see President Carter's speech transcript.?

[iconoclastNYC]

42. K&R

The DLC is the biggest obstacle to our success.

[Dembo98]

44. I'm all for sticking it to W (weasel)...

but am not sure we need to do it at funerals, especially this one. I think it makes us look kooky. Am I off base?

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. What did the DLC say about this? What did I miss? Damn...I miss everything

because I don't watch the corporate owned MSM. Did the DLC or one of it's MANY members say something?

[Rageneau]

50. They said play nice with the bully Republicans...

And then maybe they'll stop punching us and taking our lunch money.

Hey, it's worked so far, hasn't it?

[AtomicKitten]

52. come on, that's not what they said.

They said Dems need to be careful about having a strident tone on the wiretapping issue - not "play nice."

Not exactly the correct remedy, but a problem nonetheless. The Repubs are using this issue to paint the Dems as weak. I have already stated the Dems need to change their Orwellian "terrorist surveillance program" to what it really is, illegal domestic spying.

Sometimes info at DU is passed like a bad game of telephone with tin cans and string.

[calimary]

53. Kicking this! Damned good stuff, Plaid!

I'd recommend it, too, if I weren't too late.