The irreverence of it all .....

[jarab]

I suppose how one looks at the political fest at Mrs King's funeral depends in part on different factors, one being where you're from and just plain tradition.

I find the shenanigans of some of the Southerners who spoke off-putting in the least.
In the South, a funeral has traditionally been a solemn occasion - and the same might be said for the wake. It is not a place for campaigning; the Big Dog's "my president, the former president" statement was intentionally political in nature.
I'm ashamed of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton in particular, for they should have known better.

I don't buy the "excuse" that Mrs King's life was "political", so that justifies making the funeral likewise. It's a damn funeral, and down South that means much more than what I saw yesterday.

I suspect that in other parts of the country funeral processions are a simple traffic hindrance, but down here we still stop/slow our vehicle and remove our headgear out of respect for even those we don't know, in passing

And, at the funeral, if we can't find something good to say about the deceased, we stay quiet or lie about that person's journey through life. We stay on topic in all instances. Looks to me like yesterday was the A.N.S.W.E.R. way to have a twenty-first-century funeral, and it sickened me.

You may not see anything wrong with the proceedings - and that's a prerogative - but rural Americans and Southerners in particular are aghast.
There's a time and a place - a season - for everything, but the spokesmen at Mrs King's funeral were way overboard.

I think our people need to find the courage to say what they did yesterday on the floor of the Senate or on the campaign trail, which they haven't yet. Mrs King's funeral was not the appropriate occasion to kick off the HRC campaign for '08, nor was it likely to unravel the "mystery" of the WMD's whereabouts.
I've chewed on this for a day, and my conclusion is (still) that we dishonored the deceased with such a sickening display of political posturing.
Our timing is so damn bad too often!

That's just my opinion, obviously.

...O...

[Boredtodeath]

1. Rural American + Southern = ME

And I watched the homegoing celebration of Coretta Scott King and was not the LEAST BIT OFFENDED. I stood and cheered Reverend Lowery. I cheered Maya Angelou. I cheered Mayor Shirley Franklin. You'll find my posts cheering them on right here on DU as it happened.

But, then again, I'm not some uptight, ultra religious, Bush supporter, either.

[jarab]

5. Doing it the DU way. Everything's "political"! eom

...O...

[GrantDem]

8. Not really...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4712672

[Boredtodeath]

16. So, jarab, tell me......

Are you trying to say you know more about how to eulogize Coretta Scott King than does Reverend Lowery?

You know, the VERY SAME Reverend Lowery who stood with her and her husband at Selma, Alabama?

The VERY SAME Reverend Lowery who saw, spoke to and was a part of the LIFE OF CORETTA SCOTT KING?

The VERY SAME Reverend Lowery who stood with the Kings and their young children?

The VERY SAME Reverend Lowery who lived the King Legacy?

Are you honestly asking DUers to believe you know better what Coretta Scott King wished for her homegoing ceremony than REVEREND JOSEPH LOWERY?

[jarab]

23. Simply saying that imo it's the wrong stage for

political posturing.

It just continues the trend established; our "leaders" don't have the courage to fight for us day-to-day, not to take on the opposition. They chose to do it in a setting where there was no dissenting views. Sooo weak!
I only speak for myself, and I'm fairly certain all of us here do that only. We don't know what the itinerary was, nor do we know whether the scripts were pre-approved; nor do we know whether Mrs King did give or would have given explicit approval.
...O...

ed:sp

[Boredtodeath]

25. I repeat

Reverend Joseph Lowery was far more likely to know her given EXPLICIT approval than you or I.

You position is indefensible.

[KittyWampus]

36. Why not give voice to Mrs. King's causes at her Funeral? The causes

she gave her husband and lived her life for?

If not at her Funeral, in rememberance of her, when?

[gademocrat7]

14. As a Southerner (Atlanta) I agree with you.

Those who personally knew Mrs. King were speaking from their hearts. What I found offensive was shrub's behavior. Squirming and smirking.

[rfranklin]

2. Sorry, but you are wrong...

Mrs. King was a political figure just as Ronald Reagan was a political figure. When Reagan died (finally) it was a political extravaganza--solemn though it was--that attempted to confer sainthood on the demented old windbag. It was a perfectly appropriate moment to celebrate the themes that Coretta and Martin stood for--empowerment and civil rights for all, justice for all, and a profound distaste for the warmongering of the rich and privileged who are the source of most injustice.

[William769]

3. Born & bred Southern here.

I Think Mrs King would disagree with you.

[JI7]

4. what do they think down south about Hurricane Katrina

and the Chimp's reaction to it ?

[GrantDem]

6. I totally disagree...

the King's lives were dedicated to political change. God knows we need political change now more than ever. The only thing I found offensive was George W. Bush's disingenuous sympathy.

[HereSince1628]

7. So, there are now funeral police for the south

You guys down there really need those? :shrug:

BTW I seem to remember people the same uproar coming out of Paul Wellstone's funeral.

[Neil Lisst]

9. I couldn't disagree with you more.

And you're not really qualified to speak for how funerals anywhere should be held. It depends entirely on the wishes of the family.

The only people who are aghast are Bush defenders, as usual.

[jarab]

10. I'll overlook the implication. n/t

...O...

[Neil Lisst]

12. your post was rather pompous and pretentious

You're not the only person from the SOUTH here, and maybe in your small town people pull over and take their hats off, but not in any city of over 5000 people.

[Skidmore]

11. Well, I'm a Northerner--from a frozen land filled with

the "Frozen Chosen". Funerals are somber events in this area too. I was not offended by the speeches at the funeral. CSK's life and her life's work were commemorated in wonderful words by many there. Her Legacy MUST be carried on. Part of her work was to speak truth to power. Both her husband and she were devoted to the idea that the truth will free people. It is still true today and urgently so. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton spoke in the tradition of MLK and CSK, and people understand it. The power structure understands it and fears it. I agree that these truths should be spoken in the halls of power too. However, it is a time for power to come from the people for those in power have been corrupted.


I'm sorry you are aghast, but I would urge you to get over it and get your hands a little dirty. Quite worrying about form and start addressing the substance of issues. That was what was occurring yesterday.

[slor]

13. It was not just a funeral "down South"...

it was also a funeral for a political activist, and a African American funeral, and in that tradition, it was right on point. You are wrong. Also, I did not see where anybody kicked off the "HRC campaign", in fact both Hillary and Bill motioned the crowd to settle down. The mourners, of whom I am sure, were comprised of many Southerners, seemed to respond positively, so what standard are you basing this on? And how dare anyone tell them to mourn differently.

[burythehatchet]

15. Nice try. You could not be more off the mark

Of course, that's just my opinion. Last night I went to the King Center to wait for the procession to arrive. It was an incredibly warm feeling on a very cold night. I engaged in numerous discussion over the course of four hours with dozens of people who were there (all African Americans). Every single one, with no exception, was overjoyed at the things that were said and that you are bemoaning. Every single one, without exception, wished that more had been said. Their favorite speeches after those delivered by friends of the family, were Bill Clinton's and Jimmy Carter's. They LOVED what Joseph Lowery had to say. I have never seen such unanimity in opinion amongst so mmany people. Ponder that for a while. There were people there who knew Coretta and they said she would be smiling. So what you term "shenanigans" is viewed somewhat differently by those who knew her and those who came to honor her.

[bpilgrim]

17. you need to get out more

and take the M$M whores with you, please...

peace

[fasttense]

18. I understand what you say about the tradition

of funerals in the South. "A funeral has traditionally been a solemn occasion - and the same might be said for the wake." But I do not see how a political comment makes the occasion any less solemn or breaks tradition.

There is another tradition in this United States and in the South that many are falling back on as an excuse for cowardice. It is the tradition of saying nothing. It is the habit of "for now we say nothing". In the South if some one says they are coming to visit you and you have other plans, you don't tell them NO. You go about your plans and know they will realize you are not home when they come knocking. In the South, and in many places in these United States, people don't want to say No. When someone tells an off-color joke that you find offensive, you say nothing, keep your mouth shut to keep from offending the offender. This is a sad tradition of avoidance of confrontation.

Even at a funeral there are elephants in the room that we don't want to talk about. That is Not the tradition Martin Luther King stood for nor is it the tradition Mrs. King stood for. By saying nothing, by avoiding the elephant in the room, you give your tactic support to the offender who created that elephant.

If Presidents Clinton and Carter had kept their mouth shut about all current political events they would have given their tactic support to those events. Sometimes you have to speak out at any opportunity in order for people to understand that you do not support their off-color politics.

[bigscott]

19. Frozen Chosen one here

And I could not disagree with the OP more. The Kings lives revolved around activism and speaking out when the witnessed or EXPERIENCED a wrong. I thought most of the speeches were wonderful - activists YES - but they were eulogizing an ACTIVIST! I thought Bill Clinton was wonderful - reminding the people that there was a WOMAN in the casket was brilliant. Even Poppy was OK - i guess all that money can actually buy a sense of humor to go along with the rest of the package. On the other hand I thought Pickels was disgusting sitting there smirking with * during Bill's speech. BTW - some of us still remove our hats when we pass a funeral procession. Lesson to be learned from the Kings? - if you SAY NOTHING then you should EXPECT NOTHING

[Boredtodeath]

20. Front page it folks - RECOMMEND!

Not for the original post, but for the wonderful responses to it.

[PA Democrat]

21. Coretta Scott King's family members are the only people who have any right

to be offended by what was said.

Personally, when I die, I hope that people will remember my political activism in their eulogies. It is an essential part of who I am and my life's work. So is there some type of application process I need to go through in advance to get approval from the funeral PC police in case someone should happen to mention my deep objections to the policies of this administration? I wouldn't want any of the arbiters of proper funeral behavior to be offended.

[pecwae]

22. Born, bred, still live in the South

and not offended one iota.

[Inland]

24. "Irreverence"? For Mrs. King, or someone else?

Seems to me that Mrs. King was treated reverently. Maybe Bush wasn't, and that's certainly why the freepers are upset.

It isn't about a funeral, it's about Bush and his role as Great Leader and Commander in Chief of America. Every time someone criticizes Bush, it's either the wrong time, or wrong place, or because the election settled everything, or because we are at war, until the magical three months of the presidential election, when it's ignored because it's just politics. There's always the reason to ignore what is being said. Here, it's because it shouldn't have been said at a funeral. Whatever.

I don't know about funeral etiquette, but it seems to me that a fistful of reverends and religious from the south probably didn't get it so wrong and that no cons would care if they lifted the lid and pissed in the casket. The only person revered by them is the Great Leader.

[cry baby]

26. southerner here - not offended at all, but very inspired. nt

[tledford]

31. Ditto. Lived in NC all my life and...

really appreciated the statements made by Carter and Clinton and especially the Reverend.

CNN's coverage this morning was really annoying, enough so that I had to send them an email. If a Democrat speaks the truth, it's "politics" to CNN.

What better place to speak plainly and truthfully than at the memorial service for someone like Mrs. King?

[Caretha]

27. Are you sure your Southern?

Southern Baptists down here believe when you die a funeral should not be a dirge, but should be a celebration. A celebration of that person's life and a celebration that they are "in a better place".

Another Southern tradition is to plan your funeral in advance. I'm sure that Coretta King and her family did. Do you have a problem with that?

[alarimer]

28. Sounds like you hit all the Republican talking points to me

Same as Rush.

[RethugAssKicker]

29. I'm not going to be nice... What you wrote is simply BULLSHIT!

[jarab]

32. Fuck "nice".

I don't waste my time trying to get people to be nice.
Got something to say, say it. Just remember, asskicker, when they made you as an asskicker, they didn't stop making em.
Now, if more lefties would quit being "nice" you'd have some (winning) company.

...O...

[kentuck]

48. Big "O"....

How's everything? :)

[Joe Fields]

30. Tough Shit, Jarab!

In this day and age, appeasers sicken me.

[Tsiyu]

33. What would Mrs. King want?

I ask myself that question, and the answer is clear:

Use whatever opportunity you have to spread your message.

Many, many poor black and white and hispanic and asian and muslim people are suffering. This can change...but not by war and not with greed and bigotry at the helm.

She wanted the message to spread far and wide and deep.

And so it did.

[Lars39]

34. I'll bite. You mean *white* funerals.

Probably of the Southern Baptist variety, but other denominations have them also.
Those are usually not a celebration of the deceased life,
but instead an impersonal sermon from the preacher,
who is telling those in the pews that unless they get "right" with God,
they are going to hell. The preacher stops just short of "the call".

Bottom line...you need to get out of your whitebread world more often.

[mbee]

35. You really fail to see why it was done - HELLO!

It never would be covered by the media in any large form on the floor of the Senate. Also, Bush will never face the truth in front of the controlled audiences he usually frequents. This would have been a missed opportunity had it not be done. I'm afraid spine only works when people are allowed to listen.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

37. Every important event for the past 5 years has been politicized

At least with this one the Dems managed to stick a few very sharp knives into *bush's ribs while he couldn't do a single damned thing about it.

Take what you can, WHILE you can. We'll all be in perpetual lockdown soon enough...

[sandnsea]

38. Fuck that arrogant southern bullshit

I do not know where the fuck southern people get off with their haughty attitude that southerners have the monopoly on kindness or dignity or manners or any of the rest of the bullshit that southerners spew out on a regular basis. If southerners really did have some monopoly on respect, then they'd know that the real definition of respect is to shut the fuck up about somebody elses values. But oh no, they have to insert their particular set of values into everybody else's lives, pass judgment and condemn, and then pat themselves on the back for their virture. Well you know what we call that out west??? A self-righteous, pompous, of no earthly good, holy roller, PHONY.

Keep your shit in the south. If we wanted to live there, we'd go there.

[Joe Fields]

40. sounds like someone's mad because their team lost Sunday

[WI_DEM]

39. What Carter or Lowrey in particular had to say has no shame

We still must continue with the fight of Mrs. King--as President Carter pointed out look at the faces of those who suffered from Katrina. At it's part of Martin and Coretta's history that they were wiretapped, and that is a perfectly bi-partisan quote--since it was the Kennedy and Johnson administrations which authorized the wiretaps.

Sorry, I disagree with you.

[Rhiannon12866]

41. Randi Rhodes discussed this yesterday.

She brought up the fact that Dr. and Mrs. King fought all their lives for freedom and democracy, but in a peaceful way. And their home was not only wiretapped, but bombed, yet this did nothing to shake their resolve! It would have been a disservice to Mrs. King to ignore the substance and seminal events in her life at her funeral. This is what she was all about and Rev. Lowery and President Carter had every right to bring this up. They were both magnificent, IMO.:patriot:

[Individualist]

42. The service was for and about Mrs. King

It was NOT for and about you or the damn republicans. The only opinions that matter are those of Mrs. King's family and friends.

Wellstoning Mrs. King's funeral is SHAMEFUL!

[Peter Frank]

43. I respectfully disagree...

What you consider a lack of taste pales monumentaly in comparison the obscenity of this war. ...And this president is so insulated that I don't blame anyone for having his/her say with him any place -- any time.

[mbee]

44. The media always makes the comment that no one

knows what Democrats stand for - Well, now they know!

[porphyrian]

45. Cameras + Politicians = What the hell did you expect?

If they were serious about any sanctity, they wouldn't have allowed both cameras and politicians to be there at the same time. Sadly, for those like you who were offended by it, their message was lost. However, that doesn't change the fact that what they said was true. Also, I disagree that their timing was bad, despite those like yourself who thought it "dishonored" Mrs. King. These are things that should be shouted from every rooftop until these criminal traitors are marched out of office, preferably in cuffs. The reality is that, without opportunitites like this funeral, these speakers would get no media coverage at all. If that's what it takes to get the message out, I'm sure Mrs. King would understand and support it.

[dogday]

46. I think it was a call to continue the fight of both of them

No violence, No Racism, Equal Rights for all Americans, And certainly No War for any other purpose that to protect America. They lived their lives with these dreams and these dreams need to stay alive and be mentioned as often as possible....

[Bake]

47. You do NOT speak for THIS Southerner!

Not by a long shot. And I've been to more than a few funerals. Presided at several.

Bake