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Going Upriver:The Long War of John Kerry

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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:30 PM
Original message
Going Upriver:The Long War of John Kerry
Has anyone else seen this film? If not, I suggest renting it and then writing to him and asking him to show some of the idealism and passion today that he exhibited during Vietnam.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. eh he was a beauty wasn't he




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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. I suggest paying attention to what's going on
I guess leading a filibuster of fascist stooge Sam Alito shows no idealism or passion.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I think most of us would agree that the filibuster was not really an
attempt to block Alito but an attempt to give a few crumbs to the base. I am still glad he did it, and I have a lot of respect for him as a man and as a leader (he is one of my Senators), but he has it in him to be so much more.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. No, most of us wouldn't agree.
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 03:17 PM by WildEyedLiberal
Seriously, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he hadn't filibustered, he'd have been vilified for not listening to the base. He does filibuster, but he's still vilified for "throwing you crumbs."

If that's all liberal policy is to you - crumbs - then that's sad. If that's how you choose to look at it, Kerry's thrown a hell of a lot more "crumbs" to liberals than most of our elected representatives.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-09-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. I have faith in Kerry, but I don't give a damn if you all want to believe
that the filibuster was not politically motivated (rather than being motivated by a desire to do what was best for the American people).

I've said before and I will say it again--the filibuster was a play to the base. The Dems knew they didn't have the votes (and if they had, they wouldn't have filibustered, because they never really took Alito's rulings into account in a way that would have enabled them to defeat the nomination) so they gave us a token gesture.

It was a very wise move in terms of playing to the base. And personally, token gesture or not, I appreciated the effort.

The truth was, they didn't fight the nomination the right way (i.e., on real, technical judicial grounds) and neither did we--we focused on Alito personally (i.e., he's a racist bastard) instead of focusing our criticisms on his judicial history in a technical way. Most people who study politics for a living would tell you the exact same thing.

We (and the majority of Dems) simply spent too much time talking about Alito's personal life and not enough time talking about his rulings, which were the basis on which his fitness for the SCOTUS was determined.



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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. a few crumbs to the base? yeh right!!! Like WHO is gonna
go out to the hangmans noose that is commonly known as our media and the Republican party just to get a few crumbs!

I didn't see anyone else (other than Kennedy) sticking their neck out.

Katherine, face it, the fact is that NOBODY but nobody is gonna do that unless they sincerely believe in it.

Why don't YOU run for office and see if you'd like to have your head in a noose just because YOU DISAGREE with the powers that be!

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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. He pledged in 2003 to filibuster any judicial nominee
who might overturn Roe v. Wade. If that wasn't an attempt to block, I don't know what would be.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Consider that the liberal darling, Feingold, is on the Judiciary
committee - a far better place to initiate this and he didn't. Possibly with more time and more real backing from people like the Clintons, it could have happened. Started earlier, after less abysmal hearings - they might have convinced the country that the Unitar President is a radical concept asd is the lessening of the rights of the individual.

I honestly can't see what more Kerry could have done. Between speaking out, harnessing the blogs and giving 3 excellent speeches in the Senate, he did a lot. If he didn't care, he could have left it at his first speech, stayed at Davos (with Teresa) and gone to Ireland as planned to give a speech in a prestigous lecture series on that Sunday, then come home to vote on against Alito on Monday. (If any one later asked why there was no filibuster, he could blame the leadership and the judiciary committee.) Instead he came home to fight and to have the RW clowns ridicule him.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. I loved it!
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 01:41 PM by FreedomAngel82
I was able to download it during the campaigning and it's great. I love it and have it. :loveya: Oh and yes he still has it. It's just not as out there as it should be. Go to c-span.org and watch some of Kerry's campaigning and rallies. He's still passionate. He's very passionate when he's pissed off though.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Like maybe if a filibuster on a Supreme Court nominee comes up
He should try and do something. It might even make it to the internets.
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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did i miss a down time for Kerry. Every time I notice he is exhibiting
passion and speaking and acting on his ideals.
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poverlay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I thoroughly agree. Senator Kerry is one of the finest public
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 01:49 PM by poverlay
servants that I have ever seen. A presidency of his would be a joyous thing. Unfortunately, he would be sitting on such a steaming pile left over from the * crime family, that I don't see how he would have any time to do anything other than put out fires.

I proudly voted for him and will do so again.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Give the man credit for what he's doing
He's not a delicate wallflower, and he's already taken more shit than any one man, let alone an honored veteran, should have to take in a lifetime.
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's a good movie, but it's not the whole story,
and that's the POINT. The point of the movie is how Vietnam helped shaped Senator Kerry into the statesman he is today. What do you think the "Long War" in the title refers to?

I suggest getting cable and watching Senator Kerry on C-SPAN 2 as often as you can. The passion and idealism have matured, but they haven't gone anywhere.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Or even just stuff from 2003 and 2004 with campaigning
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. This is a man who led hundreds of Vietnam Vets to the Capitol and
demanded to be heard by the United States Congress. He took a stand on the war then, but he didn't take a strong enough one in 2004.

I think the filibuster was a token gesture, not a real effort. It was a political move to keep us happy. This doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do, but I fear a lot of Kerry's actions are shaped more by politics now that by his own desire to do what is best for the people of this country. While the result may have been the same, this says a lot about how he makes decisions and how he will make decisions in the future.

All I'm sayin'... Hell, I like the guy--I voted for him in 2004 and I will vote for him when he is up for re-election here in MA--I just think he can do better.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. flame bait?
getting your kicks, Katherine?

Sounds like the ole' smear thing while on one hand while saying "Oh, I support the man" on the other.

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. True he can be more vocal and better but
he is still doing well compared to some democrats. People have different thoughs with Kerry and the filibuster but I think he really meant to do it. Why did he wait so late? :shrug: Dunno but I don't think it was personally. Remember BCCI and Iran/Contra.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Name ONE lawmaker who has uncovered more government corruption than
John Kerry has the last 20 years. You can't.

He was also the first senator to submit gay friendly legislation and advocated for gays to serve openly in the military - issues that were NEVER popular, but he chose to lead on them. Same with the very unpopular investigations into IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning - he did them WITHOUT support from anyone in his party and he was ostracized for years by the DC powerstructure.

Funny, but back then, it was the GOP operatives planting stories that it was pure showmanship by Kerry to discredit him. Love how the old memes still hang around today and spouted by people who should know better.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Saw it during the campaign
along with his speeches on Iraq, interntional cooperation, energy independence, investing in US business, universal health care, national service for college, - instead of listening to the media enabled right wing smears.

Try it next election, you'll be amazed at what your candidates really stand for.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kerry has fought with passion for people, democracy and the constitution
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 02:57 PM by karynnj
throughout his Senate career. Read (or better yet see)his speech from last Monday before the filibuster vote. Kerry clearly made the case that Alito would take power from individuals and shift it to government and corporations. Alito would aso shift power from the legislature to the President. Kerry was eloquent and fiery. His description of the completely unjustified show of brute force to evict unarmed, non-resiting farmers was horrifying - and it made clear why he was an incredible lawyer and prosecutor.

He addressed the same root issue - when he and Paul Wellstone years before others really fought to get clean elections so people couls have a voice. (Feingold always acknowledged that McCain/Feingold was far more limited and hoped the Senate would some day do all that was needed.) Here is a 1999 speech - the differnce between 1971 and 1999, was not the level of passion, but that he had a position that gave him a platform to speak in 1999.

Here's the speech:
Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I want to speak before you today about a critical challenge before this Senate--the challenge of reforming the way in which elections are conducted in the United States; the challenge of ending the ``moneyocracy'' that has turned our elections into auctions where public office is sold to the highest bidder. I want to implore the Congress to take meaningful steps this year to ban soft money, strengthen the Federal Election Commission, provide candidates the opportunity to pay for their campaigns with clean money, end the growing trend of dangerous sham issue ads, and meet the ultimate goal of restoring the rights of average Americans to have a stake in their democracy. Today I am proud to join with my colleague from Minnesota, PAUL WELLSTONE, to introduce the ``Clean Money'' bill which I believe will help all of us entrusted to shape public policy to arrive at a point where we can truly say we are rebuilding Americans' faith in our democracy.

For the last 10 years, I have stood before you to push for comprehensive campaign reform. We have made nips and tucks at the edges of the system, but we have always found excuses to hold us back from making the system work. It's long past time that we act--in a comprehensive way--to curtail the way in which soft money and the big special interest dollars are crowding ordinary citizens out of this political system.

Today the political system is being corrupted because there is too much unregulated, misused money circulating in an environment where candidates will do anything to get elected and where, too often, the special interests set the tone of debate more than the political leaders or the American people. Just consider the facts for a moment. The rising cost of seeking political office is outrageous. In 1996, House and Senate candidates spent more than $765 million, a 76% increase since 1990 and a six fold increase since 1976. Since 1976, the average cost for a winning Senate race went from $600,000 to $3.3 million, and in the arms race for campaign dollars in 1996 many of us were forced to spend significantly more than that. In constant dollars, we have seen an increase of over 100 percent in the money spent for Senatorial races from 1980 to 1994. Today Senators often spend more time on the phone ``dialing for dollars'' than on the Senate floor. The average Senator must raise $12,000 a week for six years to pay for his or her re-election campaign.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. The use of soft money has exploded. In 1988, Democrats and Republicans raised a combined $45 million in soft money. In 1992 that number doubled to reach $90 million and in 1995-96 that number tripled to $262 million. This trend continues in this cycle. What's the impact of all that soft money? It means that the special interests are being heard. They're the ones with the influence. But ordinary citizens can't compete. Fewer than one third of one percent of eligible voters donated more than $250 in the electoral cycle of 1996. They're on the sidelines in what is becoming a coin-operated political system.

The American people want us to act today to forge a better system. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows that 77% of the public believes that campaign finance reform is needed ``because there is too much money being spent on political campaigns, which leads to excessive influence by special interests and wealthy individuals at the expense of average people.'' Last spring a New York Times found that an astonishing 91% of the public favor a fundamental transformation of this system.

Cynics say that the American people don't care about campaign finance. It's not true. Citizens just don't believe we'll have the courage to act--they're fed up with our defense of the status quo. They're disturbed by our fear of moving away from this status quo which is destroying our democracy. Soft money, political experts tell us, is good for incumbents, good for those of us within the system already. Well, nothing can be good for any elected official that hurts our democracy, that drives citizens out of the process, and which keeps politicians glued to the phone raising money when they ought to be doing the people's business. Let's put aside the status quo, and let's act today to restore our democracy, to make it once more all that the founders promised it could be.

Let us pass the Clean Money Bill to restore faith in our government in this age when it has been so badly eroded.

Let us recognize that the faith in government and in our political process which leads Americans to go to town hall meetings, or to attend local caucuses, or even to vote--that faith which makes political expression worthwhile for ordinary working Americans--is being threatened by a political system that appears to reward the special interests that can play the game and the politicians who can game the system.

Each time we have debated campaign finance reform in this Senate, too many of our colleagues have safeguarded the status quo under the guise of protecting the political speech of the Fortune 500. But today we must pass campaign finance reform to protect the political voice of the 250 million ordinary, working Americans without a fortune. It is their dwindling faith in our political system that must be restored.


Twenty five years ago, I sat before the Foreign Relations Committee, a young veteran having returned from Vietnam. Behind me sat hundreds of veterans committed to ending the war the Vietnam War. Even then we questioned whether ordinary Americans, battle scarred veterans, could have a voice in a political system where the costs of campaigns, the price of elected office seemed prohibitive. Young men who had put their life on the front lines for their country were worried that the wall of special interests between the people and their government might have been too thick even then for our voices to be heard in the corridors of power in Washington, D.C.

But we had a reserve of faith left, some belief in the promise and the influence of political expression for all Americans. That sliver of faith saved lives. Ordinary citizens stopped a war that had taken 59,000 American lives.

Every time in the history of this republic when we have faced a moral challenge, there has been enough faith in our democracy to stir the passions of ordinary Americans to act--to write to their Members of Congress; to come to Washington and speak with us one on one; to walk door to door on behalf of issues and candidates; and to vote on election day for people they believe will fight for them in Washington.

It's the activism of citizens in our democracy that has made the American experiment a success. Ordinary citizens--at the most critical moments in our history--were filled with a sense of efficacy. They believed they had influence in their government.

Today those same citizens are turning away from our political system. They believe the only kind of influence left in American politics is the kind you wield with a checkbook.
The senior citizen living on a social security check knows her influence is inconsequential compared to the interest group that can saturate a media market with a million dollars in ads that play fast and loose with the facts. The mother struggling to find decent health care for her children knows her influence is trivial compared to the special interests on K Street that can deliver contributions to incumbent politicians struggling to stay in office.

But I would remind you that whenever our country faces a challenge, it is not the special interests, but rather the average citizen, who holds the responsibility to protect our nation. The next time our nation faces a crisis and the people's voice needs to be heard to turn the tide of history, will the average American believe enough in the process to give words to the feelings beyond the beltway, the currents of public opinion that run beneath the surface of our political dialogue?

In times of real challenge for our country in the years to come, will the young people speak up once again? Not if we continue to hand over control of our political system to the special interests who can infuse the system with soft money and with phony television ads that make a mockery of the issues.


The children of the generation that fought to lower the voting age to 18 are abandoning the voting booth themselves. Polls reveal they believe it is more likely that they'll be abducted by aliens than it is that their vote will make a real difference. For America's young people the MTV Voter Participation Challenge ``Choose or Lose'' has become a cynical joke. In their minds, the choice has already been lost--lost to the special interests. That is a loss this Senate should take very seriously. That is tremendous damage done to our democracy, damage we have a responsibility in this Senate to repair. Mr. President, with this legislation we are introducing today, we can begin that effort--we can repair and revitalize our political process, and we can guarantee ``clean el ections'' fu nded by ``clean mo ney,'' elections wh ere our citizens are the ones who make the difference.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Prosense started an excellent thread with more information on this bill which may be close to what's really needed now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2445744&mesg_id=2445744


What's really sad here was that many of Kerry's concerns are more true then than now. What is really sad is that there were not enough altruistic honest people to follow Paul Wellstone and John Kerry.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. Movie's GREAT - but the anticorruption Kerry who uncovered IranContra and
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 03:34 PM by blm
BCCI and CIA drugrunning stuck his neck out further than any lawmaker in modern history. And THAT means the most to me.

If you missed those important investigations then you missed a whole lot of our recent history.

He also wrote a book in 1996-7 that tracked the financial dealings of global terror networks. I think this nation needed 99 other senators and 435 congressmen to read that book.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. Passion we've seen, but he's too old now to be that idealistic
Alot of that idealism comes with youth.

What we have now is a very knowledgeable man with integrity, and when angered, the passion you seek.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I respectfully disagree in that I think one of the most unusual things
about him is that he is distincly idealistic, in spite of being very very aware of things that have happened. That's a tough combination to do.
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