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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:16 PM
Original message
"Sweden Plans to Be World's First Oil-Free Economy"
Sweden is to take the biggest energy step of any advanced western economy by trying to wean itself off oil completely within 15 years - without building a new generation of nuclear power stations.

The attempt by the country of 9 million people to become the world's first practically oil-free economy is being planned by a committee of industrialists, academics, farmers, car makers, civil servants and others, who will report to parliament in several months.

The intention, the Swedish government said yesterday, is to replace all fossil fuels with renewables before climate change destroys economies and growing oil scarcity leads to huge new price rises.

"Our dependency on oil should be broken by 2020," said Mona Sahlin, minister of sustainable development. "There shall always be better alternatives to oil, which means no house should need oil for heating, and no driver should need to turn solely to gasoline."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0208-05.htm
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ah, the beauty of a socialist economy
...you can force everybody to do what you want them to do.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I feel just as forced to not go green here. Too expensive for me to
build an ecologically-friendly house and buy a hybrid car.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Brazil
And yet a relatively poor country such as Brazil has been energy independent for several years now, despite (up until recently) negligible known oil reserves.
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Cleetus Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. fuck the politics
socialist, democtaric, dictatorship. There are all kinds of governments. The point is that it may be possible for an entire country to say "fuck you" to exxonmobil. How great is that?
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's awesome!
Welcome to DU!!!:toast:
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. So long as "they" are chosing it--
--nothing is wrong with it. But if it's the government making the choice that a different thing entirely.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Number one, that is incorrect.
There is a huge difference between socialist democratic countries like Sweden and totalitarian countries that "make everybody do what you want them to do."

Sweden is not a totalitarian country. Nobody is forced to do things against their will in Sweden. You seem to be uninformed about what a socialist democratic country involves. You might want to do some research.

Number two, what in the world is wrong with developing alternative sources of fuel? We've spent hundreds of billions doing "research" on nuclear power, coal, gasoline, and other traditional methods. Why not try some new approaches? What's the problem?
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. No problem
I'm just wondering how they can claim that they will be oil free in 15 years without forcing people to convert. It's one thing for the government to fund the development of an alternative and then let people chose that alternative freely, it's a completely different thing to force people (by law or price controls) to act the way the government wants them to act.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The article mentioned green tax incentives, so I would say they are not
being forced per se and certainly are being compensated for making the change.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. yeahhhh, life really sucks over there, doesn't it?
sure beats fascism, though
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I guess that explains
...the vast migration of people from the US to Sweden. :eyes:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. see if you can respond with a stupider comeback
--after you read my post on relative quality of life vis a vis US/Sweden--

won't be holding my breath

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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. take your pick...US or Sweden?
Norway ranked first and Sweden second in the United Nations' quality-of-life survey for 2004, which rates per capita income, education levels, health care and life expectancy in measuring a nation's well-being. The USA came in eighth.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-12-15-marriage_x.htm

notice the survey doesn't seem to mention pollution, income disparity (guess how much extreme poverty there is in Sweden), rise of religious fundamentalism, violence, etc.

I can't believe the US is that high.....shows the relative meaninglessness of using just averages
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Who cares about a UN survey
The truth comes by observing how people act, not how bureaucrats draw up lists. The reality is that far more people are trying to get to the US than are trying to get to Sweden.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. jesus...you know how HARD it is to obtain Swedish citizenship?
Edited on Wed Feb-08-06 05:58 PM by Gabi Hayes
edited for header....from "get into Sweden" to "obtain Swedish citizenship"

hmmmmmm....bad Sweden, bad 'socialism,' bad UN

and I'll be back with other surveys that say the same thing. have you ever seen one that ranks the US above Scandanavian countries above the US

check your back copies of Human Events. they might have something along those lines
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Actually I do
A friend of mine just got a job at IKEA and moved there in December. Seemed fairly easy from their description of the process, it took less than a month, which is far less time than it takes to get a work visa for the US. The reason, of course, is that the demand for work visas for the US is much greater than it is for Sweden. Which, of course, is my point.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. gee, nice anecdote...I know someone who had the exact opposite experience
wonder what the details of their work permit/immigration statutes are.

now, since you hold no truck with the bad old UN, here are some more statistics, which you'll doubtlessly disparage, coming, as they do from the equally disreputable New York Review of Books

>>>>Americans work much more than Europeans: according to the OECD a typical employed American put in 1,877 hours in 2000, compared to 1,562 for his or her French counterpart. One American in three works more than fifty hours a week. Americans take fewer paid holidays than Europeans. Whereas Swedes get more than thirty paid days off work per year and even the Brits get an average of twenty-three, Americans can hope for something between four and ten, depending on where they live. Unemployment in the US is lower than in many European countries (though since out-of-work Americans soon lose their rights to unemployment benefits and are taken off the registers, these statistics may be misleading). America, it seems, is better than Europe at creating jobs. So more American adults are at work and they work much more than Europeans. What do they get for their efforts?

Not much, unless they are well-off. The US is an excellent place to be rich. Back in 1980 the average American chief executive earned forty times the average manufacturing employee. For the top tier of American CEOs, the ratio is now 475:1 and would be vastly greater if assets, not income, were taken into account. By way of comparison, the ratio in Britain is 24:1, in France 15:1, in Sweden 13:1.<2> A privileged minority has access to the best medical treatment in the world. But 45 million Americans have no health insurance at all (of the world's developed countries only the US and South Africa offer no universal medical coverage). According to the World Health Organization the United States is number one in health spending per capita—and thirty-seventh in the quality of its service.

As a consequence, Americans live shorter lives than West Europeans. Their children are more likely to die in infancy: the US ranks twenty-sixth among industrial nations in infant mortality, with a rate double that of Sweden, higher than Slovenia's, and only just ahead of Lithuania's—and this despite spending 15 percent of US gross domestic product on "health care" (much of it siphoned off in the administrative costs of for-profit private networks). Sweden, by contrast, devotes just 8 percent of its GDP to health. The picture in education is very similar. In the aggregate the United States spends much more on education than the nations of Western Europe; and it has by far the best research universities in the world. Yet a recent study suggests that for every dollar the US spends on education it gets worse results than any other industrial nation. American children consistently underperform their European peers in both literacy and numeracy.<3>



Very well, you might conclude. Europeans are better—fairer—at distributing social goods. This is not news. But there can be no goods or services without wealth, and surely the one thing American capitalism is good at, and where leisure-bound, self-indulgent Europeans need to improve, is the dynamic generation of wealth. But this is by no means obvious today. Europeans work less: but when they do work they seem to put their time to better use. In 1970 GDP per hour in the EU was 35 percent below that of the US; today the gap is less than 7 percent and closing fast. Productivity per hour of work in Italy, Austria, and Denmark is similar to that of the United States; but the US is now distinctly outperformed in this key measure by Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, ...and France.<4>



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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. hey nederland, ever lived in sweden?
i do, and of course this isn't a scientific poll, but no one i know is against this or thinks the government is forcing it. they do vote here.

sweden is hardly a socialist country in strict terms. did you know they have privitized SS? probably not. it maintains a free market economy with ~90% private ownership of the means of production. granted, sweden is more to the left than the US, but i can almost gaurantee that the majority supports oil independance. christ, who wouldn't. no one i know is against it, friends, relatives or coworkers.

also, it is not as easy as you describe to get a work visa (don't know how your friend got his job with IKEA). they weren't giving ANY work permits out at all the last cycle. when they are, it can take half a year or more to get one. mine did.

you're also wrong about the number of people trying to get to the US (from sweden) and vice versa, per capita. maybe you were talking world terms since you seem to know so much about other countries and how they are run.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Thank Dog we don't live in a horrible place like that where they
have a higher standard of living, 100% literacy, lowest infant mortality rate, universal education, universal health-care, and the evil socialist government will subsidize your protest against it.
No, this is much better...
I can't believe you live in Nederland, you sure Houston wouldn't suit you better?
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. it lives in Denver....it likes rockets
it also lives in a delusional state, in which it refuses to accept any evidence that challenges its own version of reality
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I suppose some people would have said the same thing about
giving women the right to vote, or letting black people ride the front seat of the bus, so I hope you are being sarcastic and my sarcasm detector is just jammed full this week. Anyway, didn't I see some survey the other day that said something like 70% of Americans supported energy independence?
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Thank you for that, Milton Friedman.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick for an exciting piece of news
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'm sure it can be done...
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