Do they have cartoons, as well know them, in Arab countries?

[napi21]

There's so much insanity over the cartoons of Mohammed, I wonder if the violent protestors even know what a cartoon is.

I know they have newspapers and magazines. Do they have cartoons? Do they even realize what they are?

[Synnical]

1. Sure they do

Go to the Al Jazeera website - there's a whole section of cartoons.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0EE30E43-B137-417C-9FA4-E629E849E7DC.htm

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/directory/a/al-jazeera.asp

http://www.thememoryhole.org/media/jazeera-cartoons.htm


Edit typo and links

[medeak]

2. you beat me to it

Al Jazeera even has great animated ones...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. Oh, yeah....

The beautiful Jew-hating stuff that's published regularly - yeah, they have cartoons, the mindless fucks. It's a minority who are being set up to pull these terrible protests, but I do question where the true Islamic leaders have been these past five years.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. The problem with Islam

is that it isn't centralized like Christian sects. There is no priest one must go to for dispensation or sacrament. Though imams and some clerics are revered by their followers, the influence of these people is not generalized to large populations the way the influence of the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury is. This is particularly true when it comes to crossing national boundaries, I think. There have been over 500 American imams, clerics, etc, who have denounced terrorism and violence, and who have even issued fatwas about how terrorism is not following Islam. But because of the way Islam is structured, the violent ones don't have any compulsion to listen to them. And so many efforts by moderate and liberal Muslims goes unreported in this country. Senior teachers and the head of my particular order have held ecumenical workshops and meetings since the fall of 2001 to try and build bridges, yet I doubt if anyone beyond the reach of our order's newsletter knows anything about them.

[catmother]

8. that's sad. i want to see more imams condemning terrorism.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

13. Thanks.........

It's far more complicated than I thought, even though I was aware of what a Balkanized religion it is.

My question now morphs into "Why haven't these statements/denunciations/fatwas gotten more publicity, especially here in the United States?"

Any guesses?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Ha ha ha

If you'd like to read about one of the groups condemning terrorism, kindly check out this thread right here at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=359x47

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. Oh, man .........

Well, I bookmarked it, but I can see why it's hopeless.

Thanks very much for your help and insight.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. come visit the Muslim/Islam group sometime

and read the posts there, especially the ones on the cartoons. I believe it is mostly brothers and sisters who are posting there, and you can gain a different insight into things than you do even here in GD.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. What a great idea!

I certainly shall. Thank you again.......

[IndyOp]

16. The mindless fucks?

Please look at at least one animation here:
< http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0EE30E43-B137-417C-9FA4-E629E849E7DC.htm >

These animations do not reflect what you are saying. What you say exists - I agree it exists.

And in Japan a very popular cartoon is "RapeMan" - a superhero who travels from woman to woman raping as he goes. The mindless fucks.

And in the US there are popular cartoons that depict all kinds of violence. The mindless fucks.

[sui generis]

4. oh yes they do

even a popular little horror show about Rabbi's drinking blood.

But like all fundamentalist religion no other points of view are tolerated and anything that can be construed as offense WILL be construed as mortal offense.

See, my thinking is, if religion didn't exist this wouldn't even be a problem. They'd be rioting and killing people because somebody mixed peanut butter with chocolate.

I don't think Americans would be any different though in the same circumstances of repression and cultural ignorance and brutal traditions, and religious offense is probably just the most convenient current excuse to act out.

[catmother]

7. my thoughts exactly. as far as the cartoons they can dish it out

but they can't take it. :spank:

[CJCRANE]

9. "they

do even a popular little horror show about Rabbi's drinking blood."

So all two hundred million arabs in every country watch a little horror show about Rabbi's drinking blood?

Just like all 300 million Americans agree with Ann Coulter that all muslim leaders should be killed and the rest converted to Christianity?

[sui generis]

24. your point is a little off

200 million arabs aren't burning embassies either. If you want me to split hairs on this point please explain the best method.

However, my actual point after the fact that poverty and oppression is the root of this, was that religion is fucking stupid. I don't want to have to deal with the insanity any more - I don't want my embassies burned for the craziness I don't want cartoons making people go apeshit, I don't want witches burned at the stake, I don't want prayer in the school or costly lawsuits about prayer in the school, Intelligent Design, "moments of silence", praying for dead miners, "sacred" laws in government, or any of the other freaking bullshit that wastes my heartbeats with somebody else's irrationality. I don't want people consulting the bible or the torah or the koran to make life decisions that they should have learned to make on their own as adults living in reality, referencing those weighty tomes to find morality outside of themselves rather than in their own hearts.

I try to be tolerant, but I don't even want to give the energy to splitting hairs about "good" christians and muslims and "bad" christians and muslims because that means I need to learn too much about the particulars of your consubstantiation versus transubstantiation bullshit, about Wahabi versus Shia and why fatwa is an instrument of islamic law, because it's all FUCKING CRAZY! I'll be more tolerant tomorrow. Maybe.

:rant:

[CJCRANE]

27. To be honest, I agree with you.

The world is going backwards.

It's gonna be a while until

America reclaims the Constitution
Europe remembers the Age of Reason
Muslims remember that their scientists kickstarted the Renaissance which led to this modern world in the first place.

Until then, buckle up!

[napi21]

10. But the Western world IS different.

SURE the fundies everywhere get their shorts in a wad when there's a painting of the Virgin Mary done with Elephant dung, or a movie portraying Jesus different from their beliefs, but THEY DON'T BURN BUILDINGS AND KILL PEOPLE!

I'm trying to understand the opinions of others, but it's very difficult!

I remember being taught, as a very young child, the most wonderful thing you can ever do in this life is to die for your faith! That was taught in a Catholic school in Pa. I also remember thinking at the time, "now who is going to walk up to me, here in Pgh. and tell me they're going to kill me unless I deny Christ?"

IS it that kind of teaching we're dealing with in the Islamic community?

[CJCRANE]

11. Then why are there

freepers and American soldiers who believe "shock and awe" was revenge for 9/11? (And still to this day believe it, including the "Marlboro Man").

Muslims do not have a monopoly on ignorance. What did Jesus say about having a mote in one's eye..?

[napi21]

12. I don't know about the freepers, but I think I can answer you about the

military.

My son was in the Navy for 16 years. I've told him the reason he believes what he does is because he's been brain washed. Believe me, that's what they used to do in bootcamp!

He left the Navy 4 years ago, and is now recognizing the false statements and mistakes of "His President" and the military leaders. But while he was active duty, he wouldn't even let himself think about saying something against "His Commander in Chief"!

There's a specific control the military has over their subordinates, and even though bootcamp has gotten easier since my son went through it, that control is very much still there!

[catmother]

17. i was taught that in catholic school too.

:toast:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. To understand,

I would suggest you go visit the Muslim/Islam board right here at DU. Many have gone and asked questions about the cartoons and other matters pertaining to it, and the answers by my brothers there have been very insightful. I have learned a lot, and I feel you may too.

[sui generis]

25. it's a younger faith and it is entwined with governance

At least some of us remember 1700 years of schism and war within our own community as the coptic and byzantine sects separated out from the roman church, then the lutheran schisms and the other protestant divisions, and death, murder, war, and every imaginable atrocity we associate with the devil being done by religious leaders in the name of goodness.

With our constitution we've placed the political value of "freedom of speech" marginally higher than the cultural value of "freedom of religion", but for many people they believe it is the other way around.

We are told to be tolerant and sensitive to religion, but I would counsel religion to be tolerant and sensitive to free speech and I am immovable as a mountain on this.

[CJCRANE]

5. You gotta realise

it's a big place. I'd be interested to know how many people actually took part in the protests in Afghanistan and Syria because people seem to be generalising just from those rabbles.

Here you go, if you want to see what else they have in arab countries:

http://www.burj-al-arab.com/

[catmother]

19. that's very nice, but frankly i wouldn't feel safe in an arab country

just as i wouldn't feel safe in israel. for the last 30 years i've been saying that i'd like to go to israel -- that i will go when things calm down. but they never did calm down, just got worse.

[fujiyama]

23. That's veery impressive lookigng

but Dubai is one very small oil rich gulf nattion. It's not exactly typical for its living standaards.

The main problem many of the Arab countries are having is that they have accumulated lots of wealth but haven't invested it in education or a post oil economy. In the case of some like the UAE, they've distributed it relatively well and have afforded their citizens a high sstandard of living. Well, over time in the case of some like Saudi Arabia they have had an increasing population, but they can't quite keep those standards of living in place.

With diminishing living standards, little education or training in other skills, many have fallen for religious fanatacism as an answer. Some in those governments have given these groups money just to not commit violence in those states.

That said, Dubai is supposed to be aa very international city in many ways. It's extremely wealthy...and tthat hotel certainly looks quite grand.

[sui generis]

26. It's not just generalizing

I think you're presuming with use of the word "they". "They" refers to the rioters, at least when I use it.

The fact remains that when you mix religion with government, particularly shi'a and the sharya with public policy, and most particularly the ideas of wahabi and other fundamentalist sects, you get a culture that is flawed by obligation to its "holy men", mullahs, the idea of fatwa, and mindless adherence to tradition. Yes, I called it flawed, because in practice it reduces human rights for women, and it removes human rights for people who aren't purely heterosexual, and it is fertile ground for acting out xenophobia and intolerance and hatred of other cultures and ideas.

Everything in the Firist was written in the "age" of the caliphate; actually a much more liberal islamic world, and nothing in the fundamentalist years intervening the first collection of works that became the firist and now has produced any of the same caliber of illuminating knowledge in medicine, physics, mathematics or philosophy.

Unfortunately the contemporary islamic view of the golden caliphate is marred by fundamentalist ideals of social control and uniform religious practice, which is not at all what the caliphate was historically.

Why should religion take up so much of the cultural and political discourse? If it's good and if it works, then it should be self evident, but it's clearly not.

[Egalitariat]

21. I bet it's similar to the WTO protests

About 5% of the people there know why they're protesting. The rest just think it's cool to tote their signs and throw rocks at things.