Something is going on behind the scenes with this spy stuff.

[Justice Is Comin]

I don't think things are going as planned with the frontal assault phoney baloney as Bush had in mind. I get the feeling there are a lot of things happening privately that haven't been revealed yet.

ITEM :bluebox:... Heather Wilson, definitely not a Democrat, head of a intelligence subcommitee calling for investigation.

ITEM :bluebox:... Sensenbrenner, definitely not a Democrat fires off demand for answers from Gonzalez, quoting witness from Conyers hearing who says its unconstitutional.

ITEM :bluebox:... NYT today edition, 2-9 Headlines....White House changes mind, Briefs full intelligence commiteee????? Can't read it yet though.

ITEM :bluebox:... Grinny Gonzalez all over the airwaves trying to do damage control.

ITEM :bluebox:... Saw Specter today during asbestos hearing, all of a sudden switched to NSA, said drafting legislation to force Bush to report to FISA.

ITEM :bluebox:... Four republicans in the hearing, sounded more like Democrats than Republicans.


Nope, I don't think things are going as planned. :popcorn:

[aquart]

1. Does it have anything to do with Gonzales lying his ass off?

No wonder he wouldn't do it under oath.

[Justice Is Comin]

4. I think there were a lot more than I realized

weren't happy with his answers. The big news is the NYT story today that they either are, or just have, briefed the full House intelligence committee. The headline says "Changed their mind."

I'm just getting the feeling this train is picking up steam.

[EVDebs]

35. Just read the two AUMFs and the War Powers Act of '73

and the situation becomes crystal clear: They're lying again and abusing the constitution for their own ends. If domestic spying on your political opposition and critics is 'legal', then the cow's are out of the barn.

Wait 'till Democrats take the majority...Oh, but they can't arrest us all, now can they ? No, but they can sure mess with you...

Please ADVISE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x365492

The truth is SELF EVIDENT. You don't need the Bush 'interpretation' or the Dept of Justification's either.

[BlueIris]

2. They want to impeach for this, not all the other shit he's facilitated.

They think that gives them the greatest chance of minimizing the damage his legacy will inflict on their sorry, evil asses. They'd LOVE to be able to say that eavesdropping was his greatest crime. Fuckers.

[gimama]

3. I 've been feelin' it too

Not just the spying, but the delay & abramoff corruption. There's ALOT goin' on.
While back, I was frustrated about this mess,talking to God about it..when I listened, I got reassurance, that "more is going on than You know"(Your post reminded me!). So altho I like/trust that message, I also realize I have to keep calling dc,keep making these points,demand accountability.
I think real, old-fashioned conservatives are realizing how screwed WE are, as a Nation, if the radical rw persists.

[glitch]

32. Putting Delay on the justice committee may've been the last straw. nt

[Dunvegan]

5. Want to add to the list the weird azz thing about the CIA cat-burgler...

...that only hit houses of CIA employees?

He was found to have over 1.6 million dollars IN CASH in his home alone (forget about whatever off-shore bank accounts he may have.)

What the hell is up with that? Are CIA civil servent's paid in millions of dollars, that they just happen to keep in their homes rather than a bank?

Or, how much slushy cash IS actually floating around with CIA bag-men, anyway?

[Justice Is Comin]

7. I'm not aware of this story.

Does this have something to do with Spy-gate?

[Dunvegan]

8. DU Thread: "CIA staffer accused of burglaries"

Link Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2093600

[myrna minx]

20. Thanks for this...I missed this story. n/t

[hvn_nbr_2]

19. that only hit houses of CIA employees?

The story said some of the houses hit belonged to CIA employees.

[MakeItSo]

6. It's cover-your-ass-time for the Republican senators

Hell, even Grover Norquist has jumped ship. Bush pulled an Enron for 5 long years, but now Karma is closer than it appears in the rear view mirror and gaining fast.

[Justice Is Comin]

9. Yes,

Specter said, he sent Gonzalez a letter after the hearing that he wanted him to go to the FISA court and see if they thought this evesdropping was constitutional.

He said Gonzalez wrote back and said they would excercise all their options NOT to do that. He said they claimed article 2 powers of inherent authority. That pissed Specter off and he said maybe they have article 2 powers but I checked, and the Congress has significant article 1 powers that says we can direct them to follow what Congress demands. He read a passage of it.

Then he said he in the process of drafting legislation that would force them to present what they have been doing to the FISA court for their decision on whether it was legal.

[gimama]

11. GO,Specter!!!

(I never tho't I'd be sayin' THAT. These are wondrous times:)

[Wordie]

37. I'm still concerned that Specter didn't swear Gonzales in, though.

I can't quite square all this new stuff with that. I don't get it. Why would he not swear Gonzales in???

Nonetheless, I'm recommending this thread. I just hope all the info isn't a smokescreen of some sort.

[land of the free]

45. swearing in Gonzales

I agree that Specter and his buddies allowing Gonzales to "testify" without being sworn in makes me very skeptical about how much he really wants to get to the bottom of this.
Particularly since Gonzales appears to have lied under oath during his confirmation hearings regarding illegal wiretapping.

I'm just worried it's a little election-year posturing. Make it look like you care, you do a nice brush over of the issue, you "discover the truth" of the program (which conveniently yields little info, a weak excuse as to why it was done, Gonzales et al will say "we're only tapping terrorists calls for this program" and they don't look for coroborating testimony to prove it), and the majority of Americans buy the BS. This story goes away before the tulips bloom, and the repubs seem a little tougher so this issue doesn't bite 'em for the fall elections.

I sure hope I'm wrong about this. I hope more real evidence & information is revealed, and that more and more real journalists show up and do their jobs, if they're not too afraid to do it since their phones are tapped.

I just can't understand why my constitution keeps being trampled on by these people.

[Wordie]

46. Welcome to DU, land of the free!

:hi:

I think you summed up very well the concerns that I have about all this too. The lack of a swearing in was the tip off, imho. :sigh: The other possibility is that they will make some loudly-heralded cosmetic changes, and it will disappear into the newscycle black hole after that.

I really hope we're wrong on this, but the swearing in thing was an ominous sign.

[EFerrari]

13. Let's hope that this is the point where the Republicans

decide they'd rather survive as a party than go down with BushCo.

[in_cog_ni_to]

24. RUH ROH!

Sounds serious!:bounce::woohoo:

[wicket]

28. yup- they are in total CYA mode!

:rofl:

[leeroysphitz]

41. If so, then it's about time... n/t

[leeroysphitz]

40. We can only hope! n/t

[NashVegas]

47. Election Year, Baby

They are scared just enough to make a show.

[lakeguy]

10. it's probably rove who was doing the spying on political

oppenents and those they want dirt on. i know it's been metioned quite a bit around here and it makes sense. if that got out, rethugs image would be in the toilet. maybe they are trying to do an end around to keep it from getting out?

[laheina]

12. I'm all for that

I don't trust any of these asses as far as I could punt them--and I would *love* to try. Them or their strategist rover.

There's either something afoot, or they're covering their woo-hoos.

[PBass]

14. Wouldn't be surprised if Rove's behind-the-scenes "pressure"

on Republicans in the Senate committee, has backfired on a few Senators. I can just imagine Arlen Spector saying 'Don't lean on me, I don't need Karl Rove to get re-elected. You didn't get me elected in the first place'.

Of course, I also suspect the whole thing will turn out to be a charade, "Nothing to see here folks"

On the other hand Nixon wouldn't have been headed for impeachment without support from GOP congressmen with a modicum of ethics. So I guess you never know.

Maybe it's a good idea to call your Senators and ask for an independant investigator.

[glitch]

34. And for Rove political opponents include Republicans. Hope they are f

finally catching on.

[hlthe2b]

15. Repubs probably have seen some decimating internal polls...

...that say this issue is important enough to the public to see them all go packing in the Fall.

[Disturbed]

16. Maybe even the Repubs now realize that....

they have been or can be spied upon and feel that the Neo Fascists have gone way too far in consolidating and holding on to their power that they stole in 2000. If this allowed to continue the USA will be a Fascist Police State. It is nearly one now.

[cornermouse]

17. Well, they had a false terror alarm incident last night.

Sort of sounded like an attempt to intimidate to me. I guess we'll find out whether they (the Senators) were intimidated or not soon enough.

[Kansas Wyatt]

30. That false terror alert managed to clear a building, so BushCo's NSA

Could investigate and recover information, documents, or evidence Senators had, under the cover of a terror threat and free of any witnesses.

Or, intimidate further investigation on Bush's Spy Scandal like you said.

Somebody in BushCo is worried, and the false terror incident is proof of it.

[leeroysphitz]

42. Yep...

Who knows the real reason for it but these things don't just happen "on accident".

[fasttense]

18. I think Congress doesn't like the loss of power and authority

bush's spying implies. Basically bush says I can ignore any law you write because I'm the president and there is nothing you can do about it. It makes congress simply courtiers to the president. If congress is so useless, than all that lovely money they get from K street, Abramoff and corporations will go to buying the real power - the president.

[Straight Shooter]

29. Bingo! We have a winner.

"courtiers to the putzident"

Pardon my substitution, but my president is Gore/Kerry. ;)

[Norquist Nemesis]

21. Until Congress calls for complete investigation of spying

to learn exactly what the program WAS doing between January 2003 through November 2004, I'll have a hard time believing anything they say about it. This "program" is reauthorized by Bush every 45 days...meaning that what is authorized today may be completely different than what it was from the start of the campaign season through the election.

That Republicans are talking about making him report to FISA or change the law does absolutely nothing to determine whether he broke the law and should be impeached. It's all cover.

[magellan]

26. Even if they call for a complete investigation

...it'll only reveal what they want to reveal. The truth is an ever-shifting target as viewed by lying scheming Republicans.

[annabanana]

22. I would very much like to go back to fighting

real Republicans, and real conservatives again. This sudden stirring of the Congress is heartening. Right now we want ALL of Congress to have big clunky egos.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. Republicans sounded like Democrats?

OK...hell has frozen over!

I hope you're right! I hope this is the beginning of the end for these corrupt rat bastards. Maybe KKKRove THREATENING the Judiciary Committee Repukes was Specters last straw?

[nickinSTL]

25. Sensenbrenner quoted a witness from the Conyers hearing?

Wow. Good to know that someone was actually paying attention to the Conyers hearing.

Maybe the infringement on the powers of Congress by the Bush regime has finally gone too far.

[cmd]

27. Perhaps they realize that they could be victims of Bush's Secret Police

I don't think congress wants Bush spying on them.

[garybeck]

31. it's all show

it's an election year. have to give the impression that they're not foot soldiers for the Busheviks.

[kster]

33. No other way out

when you have kids standing up, putting their back towards you that to me means Mr G is not doing a good job explaining it away. I think or atleast hope if the kids get it, most people get it. Its over I don't think they have an out on this one and I don't think they are looking to hard for one, because they too, are being spied on. My two cents.

[Oilwellian]

36. There has to be documentation to back up the NYT article

When the NYT published their article on the NSA scandal, and we now know Tice was one of their sources, it only makes sense that Tice had documentation to back up his story. I doubt the NYT would publish such a story without it. Perhaps the whistleblowers were waiting to see what Gonzales said and did at the Senate Intel Cmte. hearing, before taking the next step to share their documentation with members of congress.

Maybe that's why Bush looked like this yesterday:

[wiggs]

38. If pugs are pursuing some aspects of this

we can be sure the whole story is far more damaging than we know.

[KittyWampus]

39. IMO, Democrats have been given proof first class mail has been opened

by White Hats in Intelligence.

And that's first class mail of American citizens.

Also, IMO, Trent Lott and a few other GOP Senators and Congresscritters with axes to grind against Frist, Hastert, Delay and Rove are cooperating as best they can.

[mtnsnake]

43. Expect Bush to drop gasoline prices a few more cents

in an attempt to make things good. It might take 10 or 20 cents this time.

[mattclearing]

44. Looks like Rove's threats backfired.

This means all-out war for the party.

People are watching the Dems fight over their message, but the GOP is the party that is really falling apart at the seams.

I still can't believe they put DeLay in appropriations. What a bunch of asshats.