Cheney 'Authorized' Libby to Leak Classified Information

[stop the bleeding]

By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Feb. 9, 2006

Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, testified to a federal grand jury that he had been "authorized" by Cheney and other White House "superiors" in the summer of 2003 to disclose classified information to journalists to defend the Bush administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case to go to war with Iraq, according to attorneys familiar with the matter, and to court records.

Libby specifically claimed that in one instance he had been authorized to divulge portions of a then-still highly classified National Intelligence Estimate regarding Saddam Hussein's purported efforts to develop nuclear weapons, according to correspondence recently filed in federal court by special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

Beyond what was stated in the court paper, say people with firsthand knowledge of the matter, Libby also indicated what he will offer as a broad defense during his upcoming criminal trial: that Vice President Cheney and other senior Bush administration officials had earlier encouraged and authorized him to share classified information with journalists to build public support for going to war. Later, after the war began in 2003, Cheney authorized Libby to release additional classified information, including details of the NIE, to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case for war.

Libby testified to the grand jury that he had been authorized to share parts of the NIE with journalists in the summer of 2003 as part of an effort to rebut charges then being made by former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson that the Bush administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make a public case for war.


~snip~

The public correspondence does not mention the identities of the "superiors" who authorized the leaking of the classified information, but people with firsthand knowledge of the matter identified one of them as Cheney. Libby also testified that he worked closely with then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove in deciding what information to leak to the press to build public support for the war, and later, postwar, to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence.

In the correspondence, Fitzgerald also asserted that Libby testified that he had met with then-New York Times reporter Judith Miller on July 8, 2003, with the "purpose" of intending "to transmit information" to her "concerning the NIE."

That particular meeting has been key to Fitzgerald's investigation because the special prosecutor alleges that Libby lied both to the FBI and to his federal grand jury by saying that he had not discussed Plame with Miller on that date, when in fact he did tell her of Plame's work for the CIA.

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2006/0209nj1.htm#

So Libby's defense is Cheney made me do it, I love it. Also I wonder who the other Superior's are that MADE LIBBY do it, not many more people above him on the totem pole.

Lastly, the article is quite lengthy I encourage everyone to read it and comment on sections that I intentionally left out of this post in order to keep the post short

[Gold Metal Flake]

1. K&R

The unraveling.

[Radical Activist]

2. There can be no excuse for not holding impeachment hearings for Cheney

or for him to resign. If we weren't living in Bizarro world.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Especially since Cheney and Bush both denied any involvement

and Bush was going to fired anyone who leaked this info.

[bballny]

37. Bush can't fire Cheney

You can't fire your boss.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

78. LOL - Yes, you need the ventriloquist

[Tigress DEM]

185. Only WE THE PEOPLE can Fire them.

Cheney, pack your bags boy. You got a long boat to China waiting for you. We are selling you into slavery to help pay for a toaster.

[ClintonTyree]

100. Yeah, what happened to bush's "promise" to the country........

that anyone in his administration involved with this leak would be fired? :shrug: I guess he'd have to start with himself and start firing downward, or vice-versa. bush's word is as good as his policies, shitty.
WHY isn't this ALL OVER the Corporate Media? :wtf: I guess I answered my own question but this is a scandal of enormous proportions and the Corporate Media is treating it as a non-story. The Media is definitely our enemy, as much so or more than the Republicans. Whoever controls the information controls the people and the "liberal media" is controlling the people by covering up bush's evils.
This is so discouraging, these criminals are thumbing their noses at the Constitution, Congress and the American people and the Corporate Media are there accomplices.
How will this ever end, WILL it ever end, or is the demolition of our Democracy complete?
You'd think even among freepers there would be a certain amount of discontent, that at least a few would question this administration's integrity and methods. I guess not. I guess they're completely content with a run-away administration hell bent on establishing fascism as the rule of the land. As long as they are THEIR fascists, they consider it OK. What they don't seem to understand is that someday the fascists will be coming for them as well, for whatever reason.
Where is the hue and cry? Why don't people CARE about their country anymore? I just don't understand, I never will. How they can choose a political party over their freedoms?
This is so fucking sad.

[AntiFascist]

111. Did the "liberal" media not mention something?

I didn't notice. There's so much to read and see on the internet, who has time for teevee news?

[ClintonTyree]

127. I only wish the other 90% of America did the same.......

I'd feel a whole lot better about the future. ;) Oh well, one day at a time, just like an alcoholic, one day at a time. That's seems to be the only way I can handle the bush administration, day by day.

[Trevelyan]

231. To Kill An "Operation Mockingbird" . . . Where Is The Media?

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/5768

To Kill An "Operation Mockingbird" . . . Where Is The Media?

http://www.watchingamerica.com/index.shtml
http://www.current.tv/ Al Gore's media
http://www.current.tv/takebacktv/

http://www.nbc4.com/news/6086354/detail.html
January 13, 2006: Rosenbaum Murder Suspect Claims Someone Else Hit Reporter

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/national/09rosenbaum.html

http://www.wusatv9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=45887

"A 23-year-old Southeast man has been charged with felony murder in the death of (recently, ie Jan. 2006) retired New York Times reporter David Rosenbaum."

=Rosenbaum dug up a lot of dirt on Abramoff who is connected to Alito. Abramoff's company already paid for a hit. Had prosecutors subpoenaed Rosenbaum as a witness?

=January 18, 2006 -- As WMR reported last year, the number two man in charge of Italian military intelligence, Nicola Calipari, and Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, were targeted by the U.S. military in a purposeful assassination last year while they were enroute to Baghdad International Airport after Sgrena was freed by her Iraqi insurgent captors. Calipari was killed and Sgrena was severely wounded in the U.S. attack. Both had reportedly been given information by the insurgents about U.S. war atrocities committed in Iraq and other sensitive information that was embarrassing to the Bush administration...

=http://www.stopsinclair.org/

[foreverdem]

198. Did bush say fired?

Did bush say they would be fired, or did he say they would be 'taken care of'? You know that can be taken either way.

[Tight_rope]

211. YES...The promise to the country don't mean shit to Bush...

[tulsakatz]

31. so who would preside over a Cheney impeachment?

I know Cheney would preside over a Bush impeachment, who would presides Cheney's impeachment?

Great article!!! Thanks for posting!!

[Radical Activist]

41. Good question. It probably wouldn't get that far.

If Dems kick and scream for hearings right now, and they start before November, we'll take control of both chambers of Congress. When the truth starts coming out Cheney will be forced to resign before it gets to the Senate.

[tulsakatz]

68. that works for me!

So long as he's outta there, that's all I care about!!

[H2O Man]

70. The VP does not

hear or participate in a presidential impeachment.

[Virginian]

98. Can a VP be impeached?

The Constitution provides for the impeachment of the President, but does it provide for the impeachment of the Vice President? Is there some odd angle here that he can't be indicted because he is a sitting VP and there is nothing written allowing for an impeachment?

Did Cheney take this job because he can do as he jolly well pleases and he is above the law -- he can't be touched?

As far as I know there are no term limits for a VP. Can he stay on as George Allen's VP to keep from being held accountable for his actions?

[DoYouEverWonder]

102. Yes, any government offical

can be impeached.

It an option that is rarely used because most people who have done something bad enough to get impeached are forced to resign instead. It's faster and easier. The court of public opinion is all that matters most of the time.

[tulsakatz]

149. I heard......

....as President of the Senate, the VP would preside over the impeachment trial of the President.

[H2O Man]

154. The Chief Justice

does. It's spelled out in the Constitution. In Article 1, Section 3, the sixth paragraph, third sentence, "When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside;".

[tulsakatz]

183. oh! Thanks for the info..........

still, the chief justice is Roberts so that's not a comforting thought either........but thanks for the info.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

186. A poem?

Was our entire Constitution written as a poem? I guess I'll have to go back and read it.

"When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside;"

[tulsakatz]

150. sorry.......dupe

[symbolman]

233. I'd like to take this opportunity to let folks know about my film

"Rove's War", a 2 DVD set that took a year in the research and is the complete chronology on DVD regarding the Plame Affair. Chock full of information and H2OMan himself can vouch for it, he gave it a great review :)

If you want to have a look at the preview trailer on our site you can go to http://www.takebackthemedia.com - also we've got the lyrics to the Secret Agent Plame song that we performed for the credits.

I've got the goods on a lot of these guys and this film will give you the tools to take right wingers to task when this all comes down, you will know the subject inside and out.

Those who have watched the film may remember that I have a BIG CHENEY EYE showing up repeatedly, and for good reason, tho I didn't go out on a limb, wanting to be factual, I sure made it clear that CHENEY was behind this in a big way.

THIS is going to be a FUN summer! Check out "Rove's War", I don't think you'll be sorry, it's both educational AND entertaining :)

[ClintonTyree]

105. "IF", sometimes that the biggest word in the Dictionary.

"IF" the Dems kick and scream and "IF" the Corporate Media doesn't spin it for the GOP or completely ignore it all together THEM maybe something will get done.
I'm getting pretty down right now. I see all of this lawlessness from our "elected" leaders and nothing being done, NOTHING! I see the media spinning everything in the GOP's favor and it's really getting to me. I'm really starting to think that nothing is going to be done, that it's over, the coup is complete and the bush administration is completely out of control and no one can stop them.
I need a break from politics.

[Duncan]

212. Take a break.

Take a short break (maybe a week) before you burn up, but never give up.
Almost every Saturday I have a politics blackout, and try not to think about our slide into hell.
I play with my kids and pretend I believe in their future atleast as much as they do.

[mikelgb]

96. Cheif Justice John Roberts will preside

over the Impeachment hearings of George Walker Bush and Richard Bruce "Dick" Cheney.

[DoYouEverWonder]

101. Shouldn't Roberts have to recuse himself

since Bush appointed him?

[H2O Man]

113. No.

That would not be a valid reason for him to consider recusing himself.

[DoYouEverWonder]

116. Wouldn't Bush be considered a former client?

Shouldn't that be enough?

[H2O Man]

117. When was Bush

a client of Roberts? He would have to have been in a Nixon-Rehnquist-type relationship with him.

[DoYouEverWonder]

118. When Roberts volunteered to advise

The Bush/Cheney campaign for the recount.

[H2O Man]

125. Then on

any case involving the recount, he would need to recuse himself.

If there ever is an impeachment, his role would not affect the outcome. Things are good. The Libby defense team is going to try to do the best they can for Scooter. That means they have to point fingers at Cheney. This has the potential to do more damage to Cheney than anyone can afford to try to deflect or defend. If Rove also points to Cheney, the summer months will be great.

[DoYouEverWonder]

130. Just as long as

I don't have to rip out my knee like I did the summer of the Watergate hearings. Has a result, I got to watch almost all of the hearings while I was stuck at home recovering.

[TexasChick]

159. Hi, H20 Man! Long time, no hear!

I have been trying to keep track of the Plame case and was quite disappointed when only Scooter was indicted...but I have faith in Fitzgerald.

Things are starting to look up, aren't they? Maybe Valerie will have her justice after all. I knew I was interested in this case for a reason. Satan Cheney is the one I fear the most of these dangerous neocons and I am glad things aren't looking good for him. I need a cheerful summer this year! Cheer'ie-o!


:hug:

[wordpix2]

165. last piece of video I saw of cheney he looked like walking death

very overweight, hunched over, looked like difficult for him to walk.

What a pathetic man. "Katrina, a little distraction," himself.

[Vanje]

207. He just glowed at a fund-raiser appearance yesterday

Vice President Dick Cheney speaks to the Conservative Political Action Conference dinner at the Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, Thursday, Feb. 9, 2006. A former top aide to Vice President Cheney, I. Lewis 'Scotter' Libby, has told a federal grand jury that his 'superiors' authorized him to give secret information to reporters to bolster the Bush administration's defense of intelligence it used in 2003 to justify invading Iraq, according to court papers. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite)

[wordpix2]

164. if Roberts helped Bush get selected, the former should recuse himself

not that he will

[PurpleChez]

138. Technically speaking, I think it's the trial over which he'd preside.

Hearings would take place in the Congress, leading up to bills of impeachment. Wow...I wonder how all of my Freeper neighbors would handle it if their boys were actually held accountable for their crimes and totally disgraced. I wonder how many would go totally Shawshank. how many would go Eric Rudolph and continue Chimpy's glorious Kampf guerilla style, and how many would deny three times that they had supported him in the first place.

[wordpix2]

163. LOL---the 3 Muskefreeps, Frist, Stevens and Hasturd, will preside

[jamesinca]

184. Article 3 section 2 of the Constitution

In all cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to the law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the congress shall make. The trial of all crimes, except in the cases of impeachment, shall be by jury............. If I am reading that part correctly, the Senate could vote (along party lines most likely) to let the supreme court of Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas hear the case. They can then say they did their job, acted honorably and not really hold the president or vice president accountable.

Article 2 section 4 states; The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Article 3 section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. The congress shall have the power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.... So I guess it comes down to bribery and other high crimes. Will Cheney and Scalia duck hunting be considered a bribe or coercion? It may have been a strategy session, who knows.

[AndyTiedye]

188. Roberts Will Preside over the Chimpeachment

I saw on the web somewhere that the Chief Justice also presides over VP impeachments.
(Better than having the VP preside over his own impeachment, certainly).

[wordpix2]

161. the excuse is the repukes are in power-but Congress will have to choose:

Constitution v. Bush Corporation.

[monobrau]

3. Kick

Can't wait to hear Wolfie spin this.

[Quakerfriend]

4. Does this mean what I think it does?

Did Libby decide to turn on Cheney?

[MADem]

36. You might be right--Libby is looking at long, hard, time and he has

a fresh wife and young children. Now, he can COUNT on MonkeyBoy bailing him out, or he can take the safe bet--sing for a reduced sentence. Given how MonkeyBoy and his crew have SCREWED people they've dealt with in the past, and chuckled over it, if I were Scooter, I would trust them about as far as I could shotput the two of them tied together with a hunk of string!!

Cap Weinberger did it the smart way--he threatened to sing, sing, sing and got a pardon BEFORE the trial. Of course, Poppy was on his way out the door when that went down. Little Monkey has a couple of years to go, yet....he's be "ungoverning" if he went that route.

[femrap]

48. Is the new wife by chance a 2nd or 3rd wife?

Asking in case there might be people out there who might enjoy helping bring him down.....

[MADem]

67. I don't know--she used to work for Biden as a Judiciary Committee lawyer

His kids are described as "school-aged" so perhaps he was one of those who married later than average.

[leftchick]

87. she worked for Biden?

how incestuous can they get? :grr:

[MADem]

147. She was a lawyer for the Dem team on the Judiciary, and reported

to Biden at the time they got together. She's off the Hill now, though.

[WinkyDink]

129. Is she a grizzly or a brown?

[wordpix2]

166. ha, ha, I got that--maybe she's ten

[Festivito]

139. Yes, BUT, it's a plan.

At trial Libby tries to blame upper FOUR-or-more, specifically, Cheney.
Jury MIGHT aquit Libby as LOW-LEVEL player. (No need for Libby to then testify against Cheney.)

Libby lawyer calls for excessive secret revelation, Bush defies, MAYBE jury sympathizes that PDBs are denied and aquits Libby.

Libby plays game with two words: AUTHORIZED and ENCOURAGED. The jury might not catch the difference as the word choice changes at trial and most especially in the press. Libby was authorized by Cheney to release the info. So, we'll hear, the release of that info was NOT ENCOURAGED by Cheney.

Cheney can be made to look a passive player at his trial. (Libby's job to maintain the confidence.) AND, he IN NO WAY ENCOURAGED the release of that information. (Bamboozle a jury.)

With at least four officials AND DOCUMENTS, it may appear an orgy of informants. Passive players.

Motive remains clouded, shrouded for a weary jury. Rebut WMD allegation, discredit Wilson's trip, OR, stop Plame/Brewster-Jennings from thwarting plant of WMDs in Iraq. Can't say with certainty. (Fitzmas kicker: Why did Libby lie in the manner he lied earlier, hiding Cheney?) But, then, why is he telling the truth about Cheney.

Libby will try to claim a FAULTY MEMORY.

Pass the popcorn, please.

Will it reach Bush*? Bush may be impeached by states without notion of Plamegate, so Bush will be able to pardon Plamegaters should RepubliCONs lose '06 since, he'll argue, his impeachement is on different grounds.

The list of players so far:

The Documents (on that plane to Africa?)
Stephen Hadley
Karl Rove
Colon Powell
Karen Hughes
Condoleeza Rice
Carl Ford
Dick Armitage
Lawrence Wilkerson
George Tenet
James Pavitt
John Bolton
Noel Koch
Flynt Leverett
*GWB

It will be an uphill fight.

[peacebird]

152. No - Libby is planning on his trial dragging on long enough that he does

no jail time before bush pardons him

and likely gives him the medal of freedom

:puke:

In Reality I believe his purpose here is to muddy the waters by claiming he needs classified docs to prove he was ordered to divulge this information. The whitehouse will stonewall the release, he will declare he is unable to defend himself without them and hope for a mistrial.

[wordpix2]

168. Libby's already waived his right to speedy trial; waits for * pardon in 08

LOL, if * lasts that long

[Twist_U_Up]

5. The Oliver North route huh

Fry his ass. This should about send Cheney to a massive heartattack this time.geesh maybe I'll shed a tear. NOT

[Bake]

6. I had no idea the VP could unilaterally declassify information!

Maybe HE should be the one on trial.

Bake

[myrna minx]

8. Fasten your seat belts folks.

Now if Fitz got his hands on those "deleted" emails...we may have the beginning of the chain reaction. :popcorn:

[seafan]

99. Check this out from Feb 1, 2006 from NYDaily News:

Leak prober got supersecret files

BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON - CIA leak prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald collected 10,000 pages of documents - including the most sensitive terrorism memos in the U.S. government - from Vice President Cheney's office, he said in court papers released yesterday.

Without serving any warrants in his probe of who outed CIA officer Valerie Plame, Fitzgerald even obtained censored copies of the President's Daily Brief, the supersecret CIA threat memo for President Bush.

snip

The special counsel got the presidential briefing in his hunt for any files concerning Plame or her husband, Joe Wilson, a diplomat sent to Niger in 2002 to see whether the African regime sold uranium to Iraq.

Fitzgerald, who is fighting Libby's request, said in a letter to Libby's lawyers that many e-mails from Cheney's office at the time of the Plame leak in 2003 have been deleted contrary to White House policy.

snip

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/387392p-328749c.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

140. Cheney deleteing e-mails....

...while grunting "Goddamnit!" under his breath every time he comes across the multitudinous, incriminating cookie crumbs of deceit that trail him to his lair.

That's a good visual.

[debbierlus]

9. I have always said, Republicans will bring their own ruin

They are liars, cheats, thieves, war-mongering murders.

And, they will stick together AS LONG as they aren't in any personal danger.

However, these unethical, selfish, greedy, pathetic people will be the FIRST to flip on their so-called allies when their own ass is threatened.

Cut deals, blame others, sell-out anyone to keep themselves safe.

Now, it is beginning to happen.

Unraveling the web of lies.

Where's my popcorn?

[wordpix]

15. no honor among pathetic thieves and criminals

[earth mom]

30. Hope you're right because I agree with you.

Here's your popcorn...

:popcorn:

Here's mine...

:popcorn:

It's gonna be a great show!

[WearyOne2]

115. popcorn here as well please

[tulsakatz]

71. it was just a matter of time anyway...

I always knew they would find a way to bring themselves down. I'm a little surprised it took them this long to do it!!

[ClintonTyree]

132. But the Democrats are so "angry"........

it doesn't matter that the GOP in general and the bush administration specifically are crooks and liars. The Democrats are "angry" people and you just can't have "angry" people running our country! :eyes: The lying, cheating, fascist, treasonous, GOP scum are alright, but PLEASE, no "angry" Democrats!
That's the new GOP meme, that's the way they're playing it. We're "angry"! :eyes:
I expect the gullible, shallow, willingly duped electorate to buy it though. I really do. I've lost all faith in Americans.:banghead:

[wordpix2]

169. yeah, especially those Dem women, and so uppity, too

[Peace Patriot]

208. I haven't lost faith in the American people. I think the American people

have been systematically disenfranchised, and are feeling very disempowered and bewildered. But their hearts are in the right place. There is overwhelming evidence for this--in the issue polls and approval polls over the last two years, and in many other stats. Overwhelming disapproval of Bush and of every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range.

So, why do we have war and torture and looting by the rich, and all these things, if 60% to 70% of the people oppose them?

The only fault I find with the American people--and, really, it's not altogether their fault--is their inattention to our election system, which has become completely non-transparent (during the 2001-2004 transition to electronic voting) and is now owned and controlled by two rightwing Bushite corporations (Diebold and ES&S), who are counting all our votes with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls. The war profiteering corporate news monopolies have done everything they can to blackhole the story of who now owns and controls the tabulation of our votes. No story has been more black-holed than this. In these news monopoly conditions, it's very hard to get the word out. It takes time.

-----------

Some resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html

Also of interest: (Bob Koehler--very bad machines in Ohio, recent)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

[Trevelyan]

227. I signed Peace Patriot, Rep. Holt shows the Co-Sponsors

and only about 8 Repubs have signed and there are still a lot of Dems who have not co-sponsored. The House of Representatives has about 450 members and the total Co-Sponsors are 169 -- we need to contact our Reps.

There is a place to comment on problems in your state with past voting and the comments are very informative and scary esp. Ken Blackwell's strongarming of the purchase of these machines and his run for governor of Ohio to replace the Fitz indicted Taft.

Also see the comment about the loss of an absentee ballot in Arizona.

[foreverdem]

199. You're absolutely right

They became so drunk with their own power, they actually believed they could do absolutely anything and get away with it. They were never questioned or held accountable by anyone, the so called 'free press' was a cheering section for everything this admin did. The pendulum can only swing so far for so long and now that the house of cards is starting to fall, they will turn on each other at the drop of a hat. Save thy own ass.

[savemefromdumbya]

10. If this isn't grounds for impeachment what is?

There it is staring us in the face - the POTUS and the VPOTUS lied to Congress.

quote "that Vice President Cheney and other senior Bush administration officials had earlier encouraged and authorized him to share classified information with journalists to build public support for going to war. Later, after the war began in 2003, Cheney authorized Libby to release additional classified information, including details of the NIE, to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case for war."

[wordpix2]

170. "other senior * admin. officials encouraged and authorized him": wonder

who the senior officials were. My guess: Rove and Office of Special Plans guys.

[wishlist]

11. That's no defense though against charges Libby lied to Grand Jury

First Libby tried to cover up the leak by lying, then he tried to deflect blame for leaking by saying he was given permission to leak from Cheney? That still doesn't provide him with defense on charges of obstruction of justice and perjury.

[TahitiNut]

19. Exactly. Fitz must be learning quite a bit.

I wonder when he'll be put on a tighter leash.

[tgnyc]

28. Right. This excuse only works if he thinks he is about to be indicted

on the leak itself!

[stop the bleeding]

35. very interesting/astute analysis DU'er's -- way to go on that one

[Tin Man]

162. Ditto - excellent observation. n/t

[Trevelyan]

228. Stop the Bleeding -- I like your posts and articles you select and comment

on but there are some Christians here and a lot of new members, partly because people from DU including myself, post on "neutral" sites like AOL Messageboards and risk NSA spying recommending DU.

Please don't post such blasphemous pictures. I can take a lot of negative commentary by people who are opposed to Christianity even leaving out the vocal minority of Christians who are rabid rightwing but that picture is way over the line and VERY counterproductive if the point is to get rid of these murderers who have taken over our country. And help is needed from more than those who have been committed to stopping the killing and torture and mainstream Americans are waking up, please don't gratuitously alienate them from action and information.

DU offers a great deal of information on what is happening including petitions and email campaigns but if you deeply offend Christians who are beginning to question what is going on, you will lose potential supporters and demoralize the DU constant supporters. Please think before you post such pictures.

Thank you.

[leveymg]

88. If this is a preemptive move, Libby, Cheney, Bush, and Condi

are in seriously deep trouble. They're not going to be in office in six months, or the country will be in a de facto civil war and maybe a real one in the Middle East.

Now's the time to move to get them out, before they destroy the country in a losing last-ditch fight to hold onto power.

[stop the bleeding]

91. yep - deep trouble is what I see - I put my summary of Leopold's article

down below where we have been talking

[wordpix2]

172. I agree, we can't let them stay too long, we need to get out of Iraq &

get off the oil addiction---repukes and esp. BushCo won't do that.

[Trevelyan]

229. How to get them out after 19 Dems betrayed us on Alito?

The people behind the BFEE have 14 military bases in Iraqnam, they are not going to leave them and their decades long work to take over America "using Soviet style repression" which they have already initiated successfully with the take-over of our media with bribes, blackmail and threats.

http://www.xymphora.blogspot.com/

By the way, Rosenbaum not only was on Alito's tail, he was on Bush 41's. He had done a lot of reporting on Iran Contra. And we all know that all the real Iran-Contra crooks are back at it right now.

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/andy8/113687947384619953/==

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/politicsspecial1/24alito.html?ex=1293080400&en=a7117b1deb0562d6&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

By ADAM LIPTAK AND DAVID E. ROSENBAUM (NYT); National Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section A, Page 12, Column 1, 1086 words
DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 1086 WORDS -The attorney general should be immune from lawsuits for ordering wiretaps of Americans without permission from a court, Samuel A. Alito Jr., President Bush's Supreme Court nominee, wrote in a memorandum in 1984 as a government lawyer in the Reagan administration. The memorandum, released yesterday by the National Archives,...
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30C12F83E540C778EDDAB0994DD404482

==The murdered New York Times reporter and the Alito connection

Rosenbaum's last piece for the TIMES was published on 12/24/2005, and reported that Samuel Alito had authored a 1984 memo arguing that then-President Reagan had the right to order wiretaps without warrants.

Rosenbaum was mugged to death two weeks later, as Alito's confirmation hearings are about to begin?

Small world, isn't it? And full of odd coincidences.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/5593000.html

=More of the Rosenbaum piece can be read here (second cited chunk)
http://brilliantatbreakfast.blogspot.com/2005/12/looks-like-total-information-awareness.html

I guess 'someone' didn't appreciate light being cast on Alito's creepy 1984(heh) memo ?

=http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/
The National Security Agency Declassified

Internet wiretapping mixes "protected" and targeted messages, Info Age requires rethinking 4th Amendment limits and policies, National Security Agency told Bush administration

"Transition 2001" report released through FOIA,
Highlights collection of declassified NSA documents
Posted on Web by National Security Archive, GWU

=Fire Chief: Investigation Was Properly Done
POSTED: 8:04 pm EST January 16, 2006 UPDATED: 8:46 pm EST January 16, 2006

WASHINGTON -- The family of David Rosenbaum is calling for an independent investigation in the former New York Times reporter's murder case. The family claims the city failed during the emergency response time period. D.C. Fire Chief Adrienne Thompson said fire officials properly handled the case...http://www.nbc4.com/news/6161498/detail.html

=We're beginning to see a subtle but important shift in the Official Story on the death of David Rosenbaum. The chances of one suspect innocently walking into the police station - a place that real bad guys wouldn't get within a mile of - and ending up confessing to murder are infinitesimally small, but the chances of two perps separately walking into the station to end up confessing is completely impossible. Although initial reports are clear that the second guy walked into the station to inquire about the case, the suggestion is now vaguely arising that the second guy was apprehended as a result of information the police received from the first guy. The story is still ridiculous, but not, like the first version, laugh-out-loud ridiculous, so watch for the new subtle change to become part of the Official Story.

==And now this rosenbaum fellow is connected to Alito. This Alito some years ago wrote a book promoting what we have come to know has neo facism .. and this Mr Rosenbaum was a inside on such cases .. involving alito and the gop .. Rosenbaum was a Bush backer but these sociopaths will kill each other ..

**coincidentally he was dead about the same time the confirmation hearings
started .........???????????

===
He'd been digging around the National Archives for some time. That's where he got the wire-tapping memo. You don't just find one trail when you do that kind of research. You find a bunch of them. Who knows what else.
===
suspect he was hit for something he knew, as well.
===
Hmmm....A link to this book Alito wrote would be appreciated. Quite appreciated in fact.

Rosenbaum dug up a lot of dirt on Abramoff who is connected to Alito.
Abramoff's company already paid for a hit. Had prosecutors subpoenaed Rosenbaum as a witness?

[leveymg]

86. I agree - Libby lied to the GJ and FBI, that's Perjury and OOJ.

He's trying to worm out of responsibility for the Plame outing - adding insulation from any chance of being popped with a further charge, violation of the Intel Agent's Identity Protection Act, by saying that the whole thing was his superiors idea and things got out of control.

[Double T]

12. The finger pointing and the accusations will continue to fly.........

as the bush administration comes apart at the seams. Maybe there still is something called 'JUSTICE'.

[tulsakatz]

58. when a man respects the law as much as Fitz does....

...then justice is still possible.

[wordpix]

13. "Cheney made me do it:" Grounds for impeachment!!!

[katty]

22. Bring it on!

[murray hill farm]

14. Welllllllllllllllll....

This seems rather HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[0007]

27. Like in Karen Hughes, eh?

Karen Hughes
Hi, I'm Karen Hughes -- it's good to be here on Ask the White House! As always, I feel privileged to be in this fabulous place, and I'm glad to spend some time answering your questions this morning.

[DoYouEverWonder]

73. Funny that on 9-11 in the WH Bunker

are all the PR people.

[dennis00]

120. COKE?

[NightOwwl]

42. It's more than HUGE...

It's HUGH!!!!!111!!!!11!!!!

:evilgrin:

[TahitiNut]

16. Can we say "Presidential pardon"?? I knew we could.

There are no limits to the abuses of power in this regime. No limits whatsoever.

[wookie294]

17. I have just one thing to say ... YIPPEE

It's Christmas again!

[tmooses]

18. Now we know why Bush chose today to unleash his "foiled

terrorist" plot. Nothing happens with these crooks by accident. It's all about spin, media manipulation and bullshit (not necessarily in that order).

[debbierlus]

44. Yes, but that won't divert attention for long

It is a one day news coverage event. This is an evolving story.

[wordpix2]

173. it has already been dissembled on Olbermann tonight because

a guest said that the plot to fly into the LA tower was uncovered without spying and everyone who's studied this says the same thing

[Twist_U_Up]

20. DLC RESPOND !!

Lets keep our powder dry !!!

[katty]

21. finally! OK, now hecuva job brownie says he'll 'tell all' about WH&FEMA

[wordpix2]

174. Brownie is BLACKMAILING WH, saying if * doesn't provide lawyer, invoke

exec privilege, he will provide emails no one has seen yet.

hahaha, this just gets better and better---these guys are such assclowns.

[lyonn]

192. Is this called eating your own?

These crooks think they are prima donnas (sp?). Prison has got to scare the living hell out of them. They may squeal like pigs.

[Stephanie]

23. fantastic!

Their only possible defense is the one they are floating now - Cheney and Bush are above the law, the laws don't apply to them, they are royalty, l'etat c'est moi. Let's see how that flies.

[pdxmom]

24. Hmmm...I'm wondering if this is being used as a tool to get a

better plea deal for Libby? I'd guess that so far, he hasn't gotten much of an offer, but this little tidbit out there for public consumption could open a few things up.

We see Brownie threatening to turn on the administration, and maybe this will push Libby to come back from the dark side, as well.

I'd guess that Bush is one of those who demands absolute loyalty from those around him, but drops those same folks off the end of the pier whenever necessary.

[tulsakatz]

79. as I understand it....

....that was Fitz's motive by indicting Libby. He didn't really want Libby but he was tring to force him to reveal more info on Cheney!!

[kiteinthewind]

25. OMG, for REAL!!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Twist_U_Up]

26. Heres their defense.............

I found this in the comment section of Crooks and liars


This ain't no prank and its a good look at what the White House is up to. This is an excellent article and as it points out:

"If Libby's defense adopts strategies used by North, it might be in part because the strategies largely worked for North and in part because Libby's defense team has quietly retained John D. Cline, who was a defense attorney for North. Cline, a San-Francisco partner at the Jones Day law firm, has specialized in the use of classified information in defending clients charged with wrongdoing in national security cases.

Among his detractors, Cline is what is known as a "graymail" specialist-an attorney who, critics say, purposely makes onerous demands on the federal government to disclose classified information in the course of defending his clients, in an effort to force the government to dismiss the charges. Although Cline declined to be interviewed for this story, he has said that the use of classified information is necessary in assuring that defendants are accorded due process and receive fair trials."

Cline has already requested 10 months of PDB, the most sensitive docs in the White House so that's the tactic and why things have been dragging on.

The article also points out that what worked for North may not work for Libby because he so senior and official.

Lets hope that Fitz is as good as all of the legal folks say he is.

[stop the bleeding]

32. But, but , but - when you read the whole article this defense is

deconstructed and it looks like Libby's case is much different that North's

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2006/0209nj1.htm#

Please read the whole thing. North was a "pawn" Libby is not a "pawn" more like a knight as pointed out in H2Oman's post: Your Move


"It was a memorable and powerful moment when North told the jury that he was 'a pawn in a chess game played by giants,'" Treanor said.

~snip~

But most outside legal observers say that Libby, because he was himself such a high-ranking official, will most likely face a much more difficult time than North did in arguing that, in some of his activities, he was just carrying out orders from Cheney or other senior White House officials.

"A defendant can make a claim that he is just a victim of Washington politics or doing the bidding for someone else," said Richman, the former prosecutor, "But there may be limits to a jury's sympathy when that defendant himself was so high-ranking. Given Libby's position in the White House, the jury is less likely to view him as a sacrificial lamb than as a sacrificial ram."

[RazzleDazzle]

92. sacrificial ram

I like that. Apt, too.

[lyonn]

193. Difference between Iran Contra and Iraq

Col. North was involved in the Iran Contra affair. A far cry from the harm done to the USA due to Bush, Cheney, Libby, et al., lying, exagerating, phony announcements especially by Cheney and Rice that got us into a war under false pretenses that has lasted 3 years.

[wordpix2]

175. was North on gov. payroll? I think he was a colonel in the Army

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. So, is this a slam dunk?

They intentionally went after Wilson to silence him, they lied us into War. How much more difficult is it going to be to prove that they've been using illegal wiretaps to get informtion from people who would get in the way of their plans?

[hunter]

33. Time to go, Cheney...

I've been joking around that Condoleeza Rice will be the first woman president of the United States...

Cheney resigns --> Bush appoints Rice vice president --> Bush resigns --> Rice pardons Bush --> Republican Party implodes.

:wow:

[leveymg]

85. I think Rice is into this up to her eyeballs

and part of Libby's defense is to take her down. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/6/12248/27290

[hunter]

94. It will be interesting to see who falls first, Cheney or Rice.

If they first toss Rice to the wolves, there is no future for them. Tossing Cheney to the wolves before Rice buys them a little more time.

I think it is a mistake to think that Cheney is any less a "front man" for this criminal operation than George W. Bush is.

When push comes to shove, the beast considers them all expendable.

[robertpaulsen]

104. Exactly. Rice is WHIG, all the WHIGgers have dirt on their hands.

If this goes to trial, we're going to be hearing the date March 7,2003 mention A LOT!

[Ready4Change]

34. I'm shocked.

Shocked Libby is rolling on Cheney. I thought for sure they'd find some way to pin this to Shrub.

[ColonelTom]

38. What, impeach Cheney because he broke the law?

I'm sure it was within his and the President's inherent authority to ignore the law on outing CIA agents too. After all, they were doing it for national security reasons. :eyes:

And so Plamegate bumps headlong into the wiretapping controversy. Anyone who hasn't bought into the Watergate analogy better ante up, because the cards are lining up perfectly.

[Pithy Cherub]

39. Actually Libby's defense is the Devil made him do it...

Libby was channeling Flip Wilson! :evilgrin:

[femrap]

59. good one! lol....thanks.

I don't trust these neocon guys one iota....ain't getting my hopes up. Hiring Cline worries me. Plus I don't trust the dumbfuck american people much either these days...and of course that includes the 75% of Dems who are cowards.

Where is the rove indictment? WHERE? He's still calling all the shots...this crap about an 2002 terrorist plot that was stopped.

I remember the North trial....I remember how sick I was that he got off without one day in jail.

I have this fear that someday this regime will finally say....'I'm sorry....I shouldn't have done that.' If Cheney comes out and says that, resigns, and goes off to that brand new lovely house he bought in Maryland to live happily ever after, I'll puke. And what's worse...all of the stupid americans will be running around saying...'Wow, isn't it great the regime finally admitted it was wrong and it apologized. Let's forgive and forget.'

I can just see this as part of rove's strategy.....NEVER APOLOGIZE....only when faced with jail.

Please someone....give me some reasons to be somewhat excited by this article...thx.

[rambler_american]

146. Reason to be excited?

Please someone....give me some reasons to be somewhat excited by this article...thx.

Sorry, I'm with you. I'm so damned discourqed about now...Everytime I think this Administration has sunk as low as it can it plumbs new depths. Everytime I think, "Well, now they've gone and done it and the hearings will start soon", the story dies a quiet death.

[femrap]

171. But it did make the NBC Evening News!!!!

So maybe we can see a bit of hope. Maybe the stupid Americans will wake from their nap and decide they miss their Democracy after all.

[Peace Patriot]

210. See my post above. Americans are not stupid. They are DISENFRANCHISED!

Bush, 38% approval rating, all year. (Cheney, 18%!). 58% of the American people opposed Bush's war FROM THE BEGINNING, way back in Feb. '03, before the invasion. 63% oppose torture "under any circumstances" (May '04). The same on every issue--an average 60/40 DISAPPROVAL of Bush and all Bush policy. Bush's approval ratings so low in 2004 leading up to the election, Zogby (most reliable poster) said he could not win. Dems had a blowout 60/40 success in new voter registration in 2004. Etc. Etc. All polls, all stats show a big disenfranchised progressive MAJORITY, that is not being represented anywhere--not in Congress, not in the White House, not on the Supreme Court, and often not in the governors' offices and state legislatures. And I think Americans are, more than anything, bewildered by this, because they haven't yet caught on to the complete corruption of electronic voting owned and controlled by Bushite corporations. They still think their votes are counted--or, if they have suspicions about that, they don't know who or what the problem is.

It is very, very, very clear--to those who have figured it out (despite a total blackhole in the corporate news monopolies)--that, if you have Bushite corporations counting all the votes in secret, you are going to have fascist government.

It's a no brainer, once you know the facts. Most Americans don't yet know the facts about the election SYSTEM--and what Tom Delay, and Bob Ney, and Abramoff and the rest of them, DID to our election system with the $4 billion HAVA boondoggle.

[AndyTiedye]

189. Send Them To The Hague

If Cheney comes out and says that, resigns, and goes off to that brand new lovely house he bought in Maryland to live happily ever after, I'll puke.

with a Presidential pardon to cap it off, and keep Fitzgerald from indicting.

But if we ever do get back into power, we can send Cheney and Bush and Rove and the whole lot to the HAGUE! Presidential pardons don't work there.

[unblock]

40. but he didn't wag his finger, so it's not impeachable.

:sarcasm:

[meunier33]

43. This is getting kinda big..

On the Fark.com mainpage now.

[SpecialK]

47. This needs to get bigger. And BIGGER!

I am so sick of getting my hopes up every day as new information exposes the bottomless pit of evil and corruption these folks have set up in Washington. I want something to HAPPEN. I want ACCOUNTABILITY, and I want people to start f$%# PAYING ATTENTION.

If this story does not grow legs and the MSM don't react on it, then we can all just dig a collective hole and bury our hopes of ever taking our country back.

Sorry for my pessimism, but that's the way I'm feeling lately.

[VP505]

53. Ditto!

Time to round them up and head them out!

[Botany]

45. Libby Rolled!

Superiors

list of superiors
Bush
Cheney
Rove ?
Hadley

Impeach, convict, and to the Hague

[HereSince1628]

55. No, I think Libby didn't roll. Libby is mostly muddying the water.

Trying to create the impression he was a loyal employee. He is also trying to make it look like the government will not cooperate with his defense.

I must believe that Cheney is completely willing to play along in this. Including the soon to be realized refusal to put classified information into the hands of the court.

[slide to the left]

46. Does anyone

Ever feel, like when their blood pressure is rising and you don't think you can take anymore from the Reps, that Ashton Kutcher is going to jump out and yell, "PUNKED?"

[femrap]

62. Thx for the laugh....!

I usually feel as if I am in a nightmare and that I am going to wake up.....I even pinch myself on occasion...but no I'm fucking awake.

[stop the bleeding]

63. Welcome to DU slide to the left - I feel like we have been punked for

5 years now:toast::toast:

[seemslikeadream]

49. buh bye Mr. Cheney

:hi:

Dick Cheney exposed Valerie Plame to cover up his association with A.Q. Khan's Nuclear Walmart. Read about it here: http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/AMERICANJUDAS.pdf or http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&top

[stop the bleeding]

52. Hello SLaD and good bye Darth Cheney

chime in dark star wars music same as when the emperor(Dumbsfeld) comes on screen.

[H2O Man]

69. Hope the old Dick

doesn't try to run his "shadow government" from Tora Bora.

[robertpaulsen]

107. Sayonara Dick. Thanks for the felonies!

:hi:

When will Fitzmas come this year? Hopefully, we'll get some kind of Fitzmas present at least once a month!

[sattahipdeep]

214. seemslikeadream

The page you requested cannot be displayed because the topic ID syntax is not valid. The
topic ID must be an integer number.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&top

[seemslikeadream]

215. Thanks sattahipdeep

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=66773

[sattahipdeep]

216. Thank you

http://www.moviewavs.com/0078546128/WAVS/Movies/Remo_Williams_The_Adventure_Begins/chiun.wav

[Straight Shooter]

50. You don't need to commit treason to defend a just war.

You do need to commit treason when your war is based on a pack of lies. The entire rationale given to Americans was treasonous; the outing of Plame and Brewster Jennings was just a continuation of that modus operandi.

Will Americans stand by and allow this to go unpunished because "Cheney is a sick man, in declining health," or will he pay for the death and destruction unleashed by his greed for money and lust for power?

[Tiggeroshii]

51. well now...

that's interesting

[progressoid]

54. The Penguin gets his!!

[robertpaulsen]

56. I hope the story is as good as the headline!

Thanks stb! I will read this and hopefully have some juicy comments. This looks very promising!

[Roland99]

57. Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK!

Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK! Arrest the DICK!

[Bozita]

60. "Impeach Cheney FIRST!" -- spotted on a bumper sticker

There was a thread here at GD last week discussing it.

Prescient.

[erpowers]

61. Impeachment

Is this enough to impeach Cheney as the Vice President? Since it is illegal to out a covert agent and it has been recently proven that Valerie Plame was a covert agent arn't there now legal grounds to impeach Dick Cheney as Vice President?

[Uncle Joe]

64. Can you imagine what it would have been like

to be a German or Soviet Citizen during World War 2? You are fighting against an evil regime led by a power hungry dictator and the leader of your own nation is a power hungry dictator. Both would betray their own nations for their own agenda, it sure is a good thing we don't have to worry about that, isn't it?:sarcasm:

[aden_nak]

65. And now Cheney learns what most people could have told him.

When you surround yourself with nothing but spineless, self-interested toadies, they're going to rat you out if it will save their skin.

[KeSs]

66. Why isn't this story on any other media sites?

I have been looking all over! Why isnt this story on any other media sites? I want to confirm that this happened before voicing my opinion about it

[annabanana]

134. Welcome to DU KeSs...

There is confirmation upthread.. follow some of the links. If you're asking why the mainstream media isn't covering it, you have to understand where their bread is buttered, so to speak. NBC, for example is owned by GE. GE doesn't need to make much money with NBC because they make much more money selling armaments etc. to the military. If their reporters started to interfere with the Government's desire to make war, GE would stand to lose billions.

It's sad and scary, and a hell of a shock if you've relied on "The Evening News" to keep up with what's going on in this country.

Stick around, poke around, read a lot and ask questions. Welcome out of the twilight zone.

[leveymg]

72. LIBBY DIDN'T TELL FITZ THAT CHENEY OKed THE PLAME OUTING

Let's ratchet down our expectations one notch.

Here's what Waas says:

"But besides sharing details of the NIE with reporters during the effort to rebut Wilson, Libby is also accused of telling journalists that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, had worked for the CIA. Libby and other Bush administration officials believed that if Plame played a role in the selection of her husband for the Niger mission, that fact might discredit him.

A federal grand jury indicted Libby on October 28, 2005, on five counts of making false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice, alleging that he concealed his role in leaking information about Plame to the media. He resigned his positions as chief of staff and national security adviser to Cheney the same day. Libby has never claimed that Cheney encouraged him to disclose information about Plame to the media."

The info that Cheney told him to disclose to the press was a classified CIA National Intelligence Estimate (NIE). It's not entirely clear whether release of a classified document by the President or Veep is truly a serious crime. I know there's a procedure they're supposed to go through to request declassification, and it may violate the rule to not have declassified the NIE first, but this may not be as serious as it appeared at first.

It still looks like Dick's going down, though. There was this "psycho rumor" going around about ten days ago that appeared in The National Review that Cheney was resigning. This must have been what that was pointing to.

A few days ago, when the Fitz letter story broke, it appeared to me that Libby was preparing just this kind of defense that he had been authorized by his "superiors". The evidence requested in discovery by Libby's lawyers all pointed in the direction that Dick, Dubya and Condi had authorized Libby to do something, even if it wasn't the Plame outing. I still think it was authorized by Dick and okayed by Dubya, perhaps after the fact.

Now we know that was the case. I don't know what to say, except, thank you Stop The Bleeding for kicking this story. Trust your guts, they serve you well. :7 or :)

[stop the bleeding]

75. No sweat did you see Leopold's latest from Truthout.org?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020906J.shtml

there is another DU thread on this, I have not had a chance to read the whole thing yet, but tis a happy day!!

on edit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x370700

[leveymg]

82. SEE MY AMENDED COMMENT, ABOVE

Be prepared to be merely happy, not ecstatic, not yet.

I didn't learn anything new from the Leopold article. He seemed to be trying to put himself into the story, which was about others. That's a temptation good reporters resist.

[stop the bleeding]

83. what is your take on posts# 11 and 28 ???? n/t

[leveymg]

89. Responded above.

[stop the bleeding]

90. I see - here is my take on Leopold's article

In interviews over the course of two days this week, these officials were urged to speak on the record for this story. But they resisted, saying they had already testified before a grand jury investigating the leak of Wilson's wife, covert CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson, and added that speaking out against the administration and specifically Vice President Cheney would cause them to lose their jobs and subject their families to vitriolic attacks by the White House.

The officials said they decided to speak out now because they have become disillusioned with the Bush administration's policies regarding Iraq and the flawed intelligence that led to the war.

They said their roles, along with several others at the CIA and State Department, included digging up or "inventing" embarrassing information on the former Ambassador that could be used against him, preparing memos and classified material on Wilson for Cheney and the National Security Council, and attending meetings in Cheney's office to discuss with Cheney, Hadley, and others the efforts that would be taken to discredit Wilson.

~snip~
Wilson's comments enraged Cheney, all of the officials said, because they were seen as a personal attack against the Vice President, who was instrumental in getting the intelligence community to cite the Niger claims in government reports to build a case for war against Iraq.

~snip~

What in the previous months had been a request to gather information that could be used to discredit Wilson now turned into a full-scale effort involving the Office of the Vice President, the National Security Council, and the State Department to find out how Wilson came to be chosen to investigate the Niger uranium allegations.

"Cheney and Libby made it clear that Wilson had to be shut down," the CIA official said. "This wasn't just about protecting the credibility of the White House. For the vice president, going after Wilson was purely personal, in my opinion."

Cheney was personally involved in this aspect of the information gathering process as well, visiting CIA headquarters to inquire about Wilson, the CIA official said. Hadley had also raised questions about Wilson during this month with the State Department officials and asked that information regarding Wilson's trip to Niger be sent to his attention at the National Security Council.

That's when Valerie Plame Wilson's name popped up showing that she was a covert CIA operative. The former CIA official who works in the counter-proliferation division said another meeting about Wilson took place in Cheney's office, attended by the same individuals who were there in March. But Cheney didn't take part in it, the officials said.

"Libby led the meeting," one of the State Department officials said. "But he was just as upset about Wilson as Cheney was."

The officials said that as of late May 2003 the only correspondence they had had was with Libby and Hadley. They said they were unaware who had made the decision to unmask Plame Wilson's undercover CIA status to a handful of reporters.

Wasn't the outing of Plame to discredit Wilson?

I mean you have these officials that are not going to take it anymore and maybe have started squealing as soon as this week, and they say that there was an orchestrated effort to get Wilson.

I think Cheney/Rove/Hadley told Libby to out Plame.

I think Cheney is done.

MY my we have had alot of people talking an awful lot lately especially from the State Dept. and CIA - the same agencies that have egg on their faces from this. :popcorn:

[leveymg]

93. From a purely legal standpoint, this is a criminal conspiracy

involving the unlawful release of classified documents -- Cheney is clearly nailed in the earlier meetings.

As for the possible IAIPA charge, I think that's still hanging over the head of everyone who attended the later meeting in Cheney's office. But, to prove Cheney was part of the outing conspiracy, Libby's gotta roll over on his boss. The only other person who knows is Libby's successor, but he's also Cheney's former lawyer, so he's going to hide behind attorney-client privildge. They thought this was a pretty neat arrangement before people started facing the reality of decades in federal prison on perjury and obstruction charges.

Much too neat to work.

Cheney's toast - they're going to fight it, but in the end he's out of government. Bush to follow once a suitable transitional government is in place.

[wordpix2]

177. I hope you're right but "transitional government" is going to be tough

since so many repukes are going down or heavily tainted.

[robertpaulsen]

110. Just trying to brainstorm who those officials speaking out might be.

Here's my list of possibilities:

State Department:

1. Carl Ford

2. Dick Armitage

3. Colin Powell

4. Lawrence Wilkerson (though if he has anything to say, I'd doubt he'd remain anonymous)



CIA

1. George Tenet

2. James Pavitt



Any other possibilities you can think of?

[Emit]

114. Dick Armitage -- is he speaking out?

I would have never thought him... do we know this for sure? Thanks in advance for any info you have on this.

[robertpaulsen]

119. H2O Man knows a lot about Armitage. Here's something I found.

John Bolton, Loose Cannon

By Steven C. Clemons

snip

Secretary of State Colin Powell and Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage were incensed at Bolton's August 2001 comments to Russian media implying the United States was setting a deadline for Russia to agree to modifications of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty or face U.S. abrogation. Bolton denied making the comments, suggesting that he was misunderstood, and the situation was "walked back." However, the senior State Department hierarchy was on edge about Bolton's behavior and his reckless disregard for process and protocol when it came to key national-security and official foreign-policy pronouncements.

snip

Bolton is a reckless man. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee needs to interview Ambassador Pritchard and other key staffers in the State Department hierarchy who know about our engagement with North Korea.

Frankly, I suspect Richard Armitage knows all of this. He should be called not to weigh in on John Bolton's character, which would be inappropriate and not consistent with the class Armitage demonstrated in his role at State, but he could easily and quickly inform the committee who was consistent with U.S. foreign policy objectives and who was not.

My hunch is that Armitage and Powell, if asked, would say Jack Pritchard was doing what he should have done to further President' Bush's foreign-policy objectives.

http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&DocID=2316



I'll check my bookmarks to see what else I have.

[Emit]

137. That's right--Armitage and Powell are close and

(H2O Man might be able to confirm this -- we're both reading Rise of the Vulcans) but, in a nut shell, according to that book, Cheney dissed Armitage way back when Armitage was nominated by Bush I for Secretary of the Army. Ross Perot was after Armitage at that time (for many reasons but mostly about POW's left in Vietnam issue) and Bush admin didn't want another difficult nomination on their hands (following failed Senate approval for Tower). Here's the clincher:

In May 1989, with his nomination vote approaching, Armitage went to see Cheney. By Armitage's account, he asked the new defense secretary (Cheney) "Are we going to win this thing? Are you ready for battle?" To Armitage's surprise, he got a cool, noncommittal answer. "I don't know," Cheney replied. "It was the strangest thing I had ever heard," Armitage reflected many years later. "Where I came from, with (Defense Secretary Caspar) Weinberger and Powell, if you're on the team, you're on the team. I just needed him to say, 'Sure, we'll do whatever it takes to win it.' But he just said, ' I don't know.' I realized then that Dick Cheney is a little different. I wasn't his political equity. And he was going to be damned if he was going to start off his career at Defense with what could have been a burdensome noisy debate." p. 175

~snip~

...Stung by Cheney's seeming lack of enthusiasm, Armitage withdrew from the nomination ... Privately he told his friends in Washington he blamed Cheney for not fighting hard enough for his nomination. One friend later acknowledged that some of Armitage's grumbling probably made its way back to Cheney. The two men remained on cordial terms, dealing with each other without rancor, but at a distance. p. 176

Regarding Powell and Armitage:

Powell and Armitage had become close friends in the earliest days of the Reagan Administration ... he and Armitage became a two-man team running most of the day-to-day operations of the Defense Department (1983--Emit) ...Armitage and Powell were the people to see at the Pentagon; it almost didn't matter which one, because the two friends swapped notes, information and stories several time a day. They had their own network of loyal friends and aides. The few inside the Defense Department who crossed one or the other of the two men found themselves at odds with both; although both men were charming, the combined power of the Armitage-Powell partnership was also occasionally a source of resentment within the Pentagon.

Powell and Armitage shared a common outlook on events and people. Both men had served in Vietnam, and both were interested in restoring America's military strength. More generally, however, when it came to foreign policy, both Armitage and Powell were mistrustful of people with strong views or ideologies. They had taken from Vietnam the lesson that events often outran everyone's preconceptions. Moreover, having an ideology might entail pushing for ideas or principles; in the process, one might incur enemies who could damage the chances for career advancement. p. 120-121

Also, Armitage and Rumsfeld had been on "...opposite sides of a Reagan-era divide: Armitage had been a close aide to Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, and Rumsfeld had been a Shultz ally when Weinberger and Shultz were endlessly fighting about Lebanon and the Middle East..."

[robertpaulsen]

143. Sounds like a good book! Here's more on Armitage.

From a thread last year:

H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul-18-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
81. I believe that three

people who were high ranking officials in the administration have the ability to knee-cap the neocon junta. Tenet is one of the three. While it is not "Deep Throat" in the sense of conversing with the media, even in a limited way, there is a likelihood that two of these three have provided Fitzgerald with information that connected the three leaves of this Irishman's clover: Plame, the document forgeries, and the neocon spy scandal.

Who could do this? I suspect that there is a short list that includes former DCI George Tenet, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Powell's best friend, Richard L. Armitage. While it is true that Armitage has been closely associated in the pre-Bush2 days with the jackals in the neocon movement, he was pushed to the side, and saw his best friend marginalized.

I have a degree of respect for Tenet. I appreciate his abilities. And there was a time I respected Powell, though those days have long since passed. Few political figures have been as disappointing as he has ..... Blair, I suppose, as he morphed from a bull dog to a lap dog. However, from years of experience, I've found that it is very important to appreciate the skills of men like Armitage. I think that he knows this administration has betrayed the principles that our country was founded on. So, while I agree with you on Tenet, I'd remind you to consider Richard Armitage as playing an unexpected role in "current events."

http://h2oman.blogspot.com
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul-18-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #81
94. Hmm...I never considered Armitage. But looking at what happened to Felt...

When Powell resigned, I thought that being No. 2, Armitage would just move up a notch and take Powell's place. But seeing that he was pushed aside for a hard-core Koolaidoholic like Rice, maybe Armitage has been biding his time to pull his punches. And that's just a little bit of history repeating itself...

It's pretty surprising as a consideration. I always thought that Armitage was Bolton's angel in the State Department, the higher-up who let Bolton get away with his bullying shenanigans. I'm presuming Bolton wrote the Grossman memo Powell brought onto Air Force One and wondering, if Armitage didn't have Bolton's back, which State Department higher-up did?

Dick Cheney exposed Valerie Plame to cover up his association with A.Q. Khan's Nuclear Walmart. Read about it here: http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/AMERICANJUDAS.pdf or http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jul-19-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. I think that

Bolton is Cheney's "son." He was given free reign in his work by Cheney. In that sense, there was only one person above Bolton, and that was the VP.

Armitage and Powell have been "best friends" for a long, long time. Armitage resented the way that other neocons treated Colin. He would have left earlier, but stayed until Powell left. (Way back, on about the 3rd or 4th Plame Thread, I recall saying Armitage was looking to get out, but had decided to stay to help Powell. Powell had made it clear that he was out after November, no matter how the election went.

http://h2oman.blogspot.com
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jul-19-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. That makes sense. Dark angels don't get much higher than Cheney.

And the protection he provides within the misadministration seemed iron-clad, pre-Plame anyway.

Looking closer at Armitage, your theory that he might be a "Deep Throat" seems extremely plausible. Look at this:

Powell Aide Says Armitage, Bolton Clashed
Apparent Supporter of U.N. Nominee Said to Have Questioned His Diplomatic Tone

By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 10, 2005; Page A02

Former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage, who last week appeared to endorse John R. Bolton's nomination as U.N. ambassador, had frequent battles with Bolton over his diplomatic tone, a top aide to former secretary of state Colin L. Powell said in an interview released yesterday by Senate investigators.

Larry Wilkerson, Powell's chief of staff, said Armitage was furious about a provocative speech Bolton gave on North Korea in July 2003, though the State Department noted that Armitage's office had approved it. Armitage also ordered the delay of congressional testimony Bolton planned on Syria's weapons programs at the time, he added.

more...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/09/AR2005050901155.html

It seems like Armitage pays public lip service to look good to the neo-cons and put Bush at ease, but behaves quite differently behind the scenes. If I were to guess who informed the grand jury about the existence of the memo on Air Force One, I used to think Tenet or Pavitt. Now I'm leaning toward Powell or Armitage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1935550#1936205



Re-reading that link, I'm liking Wilkerson more and more!

[Emit]

151. TX for those--and re Wilkerson

You know he was on PBS's NOW last week -- there were a few threads about it -- but, the more I think about it now (doh!) maybe he's coming out more strongly (finding his venue on TV and such 'cause he actually came out with this stuff last fall) for Powell instead of despite of or in spite of him. Like Armitage, Wilkerson is close to Powell, and even though the recent info on Wilkerson said he's cooled ties with Powell, maybe he's coming out stronger because Powell can't or wouldn't.

Also, re the thread topic, wonder if this Libby/Cheney thing has anything to do with what Libby wrote to Miller in his letter: "...the aspen are turning and they turn in clusters..."

Anyway, just food for thought on both of the above questions. TX again for the old links and info--looking thru them now. And, yes, despite my first impression of the Rise of the Vulcans (that it was a bit dry) I am now finding it a good read and a good resource.

[stop the bleeding]

160. You guys have been outstanding to say the least on the information

provided. Thank you!!:applause::applause:

[Emit]

121. Maybe these guys?

Noel Koch?

see your old post # 86 from: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=163776#188027

And then, someone I had noted on the post below yours on that same old DU thread above, FLYNT LEVERETT?

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:UoVGSnk8TMIJ:www.democracynow.org/article.pl%3Fsid%3D04/04/02/1516227+retired+national+security+council+official+Democracy+Now&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

[robertpaulsen]

136. Flynt Leverett does have the Middle East & CIA ties.

From your link:

Flynt Leverett, from February 2002 to March 2003 Leverett was Senior Director for Middle East Affairs on President Bush's National Security Council He is a former CIA analyst and Middle East specialist. He is now a visiting fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East studies at the Brookings Institution.



And here's CCR:

Profile: Flynt Leverett


Positions that Flynt Leverett has held:

* Worked on the National Security Council in the Bush Administration




Quotes


Quote, (January 2005)
“The idea that an American attack on Iran�s nuclear facilities would produce a popular uprising is extremely illinformed. You have to understand that the nuclear ambition in Iran is supported across the political spectrum, and Iranians will perceive attacks on these sites as attacks on their ambitions to be a major regional player and a modern nation that�s technologically sophisticated. will produce an Iranian backlash against the United States and a rallying around the regime.”

Associated Events

* US Military - (Early January 2005) - Investigative reporter ...



Relations


No related entities for this entity.


Flynt Leverett actively participated in the following events:


'Observer' in the following events:

* Events leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq - Early 2002 - Most of Task Force 5's members ar ...

Not a participant in any events.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=flynt_leverett

[robertpaulsen]

144. More on the Task Force 5 link.

Not sure how this ties in with Plame, but it's interesting:


Early 2002
Most of Task Force 5's members are called home from Afghanistan to prepare for operations in Iraq. In early 2002, there were roughly 150 Task Force 5 commandos in Afghanistan. After the massive transfer, Task Force 5's numbers dip to as low as 30 men. Task Force 5 is a top-secret elite group that includes CIA paramilitary units and military “special mission units,” or SMUs. One of the SMUs is the former Delta Force. The name of the other unit, which specializes in human and technical intelligence operations, is not known. “These elite forces, along with the battlefield intelligence technology of Predator and Global Hawk drone aircraft, were the scarcest tools of the hunt for jihadists along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border,” the Washington Post notes in June 2004. According to Flynt Leverett, a career CIA analyst assigned to the State Deparmtent, “There is a direct consequence for us having taken these guys out prematurely. There were people on the staff level raising questions about what that meant for getting al-Qaeda, for creating an Afghan security and intelligence service . Those questions didn't get above staff level, because clearly there had been a strategic decision taken.”
People and organizations involved: Flynt Leverett

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq&startpos=200#complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_2959



As always, CCR makes a great timeline.

[stop the bleeding]

158. For the CIA - I was going to say Stephen Kappes, but according to

Leopold's article the CIA source(s) sound like they are still currently employed by the CIA, so stike Tenet and Pavitt off your list.

"Cheney and Libby made it clear that Wilson had to be shut down," the CIA official said. "This wasn't just about protecting the credibility of the White House. For the vice president, going after Wilson was purely personal, in my opinion."

Cheney was personally involved in this aspect of the information gathering process as well, visiting CIA headquarters to inquire about Wilson, the CIA official said. Hadley had also raised questions about Wilson during this month with the State Department officials and asked that information regarding Wilson's trip to Niger be sent to his attention at the National Security Council.


So who are the CIA sources that are talking
In interviews over the course of two days this week, these officials were urged to speak on the record for this story. But they resisted, saying they had already testified before a grand jury investigating the leak of Wilson's wife, covert CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson, and added that speaking out against the administration and specifically Vice President Cheney would cause them to lose their jobs and subject their families to vitriolic attacks by the White House.

Not this guy? Robert Grenier? I was going to post this article in a thread by itself but since we got on the subject. The CIA people that we are looking for are probably a little lower on the totem pole, see article here on Robert Grenier
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060208/pl_afp/usintelligencenational2_060208215548


Also based on the Leopold/BR_Parkway thread from yesterday we can surmise that other WH officials are cooperating as well. see link here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x362957#367920

As far as Powell, Armitage, Wilkerson I would say yes, especially judging by the relationship between Armitage and Powell that is so eloquently highlighted in the threads below.


Needless to say H2Oman is right the news is starting to break left and right.


:popcorn:

[Jose Diablo]

195. I'd say Fitz is about to drive a copper rod into the stump

We will then see how all those that are "connected at the roots" will stand together. The circular firing squad is underway. Watch them drop each other as each faces hard time. It's the "prisoners dilema" working out in real life.

They're going down.

[stop the bleeding]

209. maybe this guy is also helping Fitz -Paul R. Pillar - he is Ex-CIA though

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020902418.html


Ex-CIA Official Faults Use of Data on Iraq
Intelligence 'Misused' to Justify War, He Says

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 10, 2006; Page A01

The former CIA official who coordinated U.S. intelligence on the Middle East until last year has accused the Bush administration of "cherry-picking" intelligence on Iraq to justify a decision it had already reached to go to war, and of ignoring warnings that the country could easily fall into violence and chaos after an invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Paul R. Pillar, who was the national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, acknowledges the U.S. intelligence agencies' mistakes in concluding that Hussein's government possessed weapons of mass destruction. But he said those misjudgments did not drive the administration's decision to invade.

[Emit]

223. FormerRepublican posted an article today about another ex-CIA

official speaking out about Bush/Iraq intelligence manipulation on this thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=381474&mesg_id=381474

Paul R. Pillar:

"(CNN) -- The Bush administration disregarded the expertise of the intelligence community, politicized the intelligence process and used unrepresentative data in making the case for war, a former CIA senior analyst alleged.

In an article published on Friday in the journal Foreign Affairs, Paul R. Pillar, the CIA's national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, called the relationship between U.S. intelligence and policymaking "broken."

"In the wake of the Iraq war, it has become clear that official intelligence analysis was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made," Pillar wrote. ...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/10/iraq.intelligence/index.html

[stop the bleeding]

224. yep I highlighted him at post# 209 but I am not sure that Leopold's

sources for the CIA are former because looking at the context that I highlighted(post# 158) before up thread here is the fact these CIA source(s) sound like they are still employed.

But who knows:shrug:

[Caretha]

203. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.

Wilson's comments enraged Cheney, all of the officials said, because they were seen as a personal attack against the Vice President, who was instrumental in getting the intelligence community to cite the Niger claims in government reports to build a case for war against Iraq.

Go gods!

[wordpix2]

176. if Dickhead had to go thru a procedure to declassify a doc, we know he

didn't bother.

"I know there's a procedure they're supposed to go through to request declassification, and it may violate the rule to not have declassified the NIE first, but this may not be as serious as it appeared at first."

[Leopolds Ghost]

74. "We Have a New Enemy, Lord Cheney... His name is Scooter."

"Yes, Master."

"The Force is Strong With Him. He Could Destroy Us."

"If he could be turned, he would be a powerful ally."

"See that it be done."

"He will join us, Master Rove, or he will meet his destiny!!!"

:evilgrin:

[CAcyclist]

80. Good name, by the way nt

[glitch]

76. And who authorized Rove? nt

:P

[warrens]

77. What's the penalty for conspiracy to commit treason again?

Oh, yeah, that's what I thought it was.

[Disturbed]

81. How do this get Libby off from...

the charges of Obstruction and Perjury?

[stop the bleeding]

84. maybe answer is in posts# 11 and 28 n/t

[zanne]

95. Best bumpersticker ever.

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST

[Stand and Fight]

97. A Most Revealing Article...

The game is now in full swing...

[davidthegnome]

103. Is Bush going to lose his Dick?

Looks that way! And, if Fitz is the man I think he is, it won't be long before he has Cheney's balls in his hand! Hah. Goodbye you rotten rat bastard, rot in prison and burn in hell.

This is definitely worthy of breaking open a very expensive bottle of wine. Oh, screw the wine, I'm going with champaign

[foreverdem]

201. Ewwwww!

<And, if Fitz is the man I think he is, it won't be long before he has Cheney's balls in his hand!>

Ewww, poor Fitz! Why would you wish that on anyone? :puke:

[ThoughtCriminal]

106. Remember those GOP Talking Points?

About how awful it was that he was only being charged with perjury and not for leaking classified information? That was hilarious justification in it's own way, but this reveals something important:

Libby may have avoided the treason indictment was because his boss authorized it.

[Mr_Spock]

108. Can't wait to see him in shackles being led to his execution

Treason is punishable by death.

Impeachment.

Trial.

Execution.

[Der Blaue Engel]

133. Now, that would be the first time I'd fully support the death penalty!

Off with their heads!!!!!

[Mr_Spock]

145. Well, we are talking about pure evil here.

Satan will simply be taking back his son! :lol:

[xkenx]

109. This could be huge! Here's why.

Long ago, in a previous life, I worked in the military-industrial complex. Everyone who had a security clearance received very clear instruction re the handling of classified material.
1. In order to legally receive classified material, you
a. Had to have the requisite security clearance for that level of classification AND
b. Had to have "A need to know" the classified information.

2. In order to pass on any classified material to another party, you must determine that the
recipient
a. Has the requisite clearance AND
b. Has "A need to know" the classified information.

These requirements were regularly drummed into people (we were fighting the cold war at the time).
I doubt whether these simple rules would have changed over the years. If you violated these rules, you were in very deep doo doo, and could be prosecuted under various espionage acts.

Therefore Libby's superior(s) would be in violation of the espionage acts for authorizing the dissemination of classified material, and Libby himself would be guilty of passing them along to reporters or others. Libby even had an affirmative responsibility to refuse the request.

With any luck, Fitzgerald may be able to nail Libby, Cheney, and others? on violating the espionage act, as well as perjury and obstruction of justice.

[wordpix2]

178. violating the Espionage Act sounds like a high crime to me

[PhilipShore]

112. MSNBC:Libby defense will allege Cheney role

MSNBC
Libby defense will allege Cheney role
Feb. 9, 2006

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11259044/

WASHINGTON - I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, will in part base his defense on the claim that Cheney instructed and encouraged Libby to share classified information with reporters, sources familiar with the case tell NBC News.

Libby's attorneys discussed the matter with prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald and the judge in the case in a recent conference call, the sources confirmed...

[spanone]

122. So, When Does Bush* Fire Cheney? Any Minute? Momentarily?

[Octafish]

123. Smirko Authorized Sneer.

They are SO fucked.

Traitors.

[H2O Man]

126. Ha!

I noted that Mr. Libby's attorneys said that Scooters supervisors. Plural. There were only two.

How long do you think it will be until George circumcises Dick? I wouldn't be surprised to see the VP cut by summer.

[Octafish]

131. Scooter Boy was Counselor to the President and Sneer's Chief o' Staff.

The super-dooper super neocon is so bright, he had two top jobs.

The aspens are turning, as we speak, in his BVDs.

Poor schmuck will probably have to hire a food taster in prison.

OT: What are your four sentences for The Nation's turd-spewing re Dallas?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=345011&mesg_id=372081

[H2O Man]

156. Actually, he was

the first person to hold three top jobs at the same time: he was also national security advisor to Cheney. (Woodward; Plan of Attack; page 48) Thus, his bosses were Bush, Cheney, & Cheney .... which sounds almost like a law firm, except I don't think they will be representing Scooter in any united front.

I used the information from Tip O'Neill's book. Powers and O'Donnell witnessing two shots from the grassy knoll, telling the FBI, and being pressured to lie to the Warren Commission. There is no way for a rational person to believe the Warren Commission once they read Tip's page 211 from "Speaker of the House."

[Emit]

194. Hey, H2O Man (and others)

Check out page pp. 209 - 215 (or there abouts) of Rise of the Vulcans. I had read about the 1992 Defense Planning Guidance, usually attributed to Wolfowitz and Cheney ("The crazies"), but I hadn't realized how much Libby had his hand in the final draft.

Ever since it first came to light, this document has been linked to Wolfowitz's name. He has received both the credit and the blame for it. That judgment is ultimately fair since the Defense Planning Guidance was drafted by Wolfowitz's office and reflected, in a general sense, many of his ideas. Yet, attributing the document to Wolfowitz carries a triple irony. First, the ultimate sponsor of this now-famous document, the person who took primary responsibility for it, was Cheney, the defense secretary. Second, Wolfowitz didn't write the document himself and never saw it before it became public (leaked to NYT--Emit); indeed, for a few days afterward he nervously sought to distance himself from it. Third, Wolfowitz and his top aide Scooter Libby thought that in subtle but important ways, the early draft that leaked to the press was flawed, not because it was too radical but because in some ways it didn't go far enough.

Inside the Pentagon, Wolfowitz had delegated the job of coming up with the new Defense Planning Guidance to Libby, his protege and top assistant, who held the title of principal deputy undersecretary of defense for strategy and resources ... Libby, in turn, assigned the task of writing the new strategy to Khalilzad, a member of his staff and another longtime aide to Wolfowitz...

(Khalilzad's original version didn't sit too well with folks in the WH and "provoked a deluge of criticism" both in the US and overseas, especially after it was leaked to the press by "an official who believes this post-cold-war strategy debate should be carried out in the public domain."-Emit)

~snip~

Libby thought that Khalilzad's version of America's strategy had missed a key point. In a subtle way it hadn't gone far enough ... Libby set out to rewrite the leaked document. The aim was twofold: to smooth over some of Khalilzad's provocative language, the "keep-the-allies-down" theme that had made the White House uneasy, and at the same time to emphasize the broader idea of America's enduring military superiority.

~snip~

...the revised vision of American strategy contained most of the same ideas as the original. Libby's new draft came up with euphemisms in order to make the wording sound less confrontational. The final version didn't talk about stopping allies from emerging as rivals. But it said the United States should "preclude any hostile power from dominating a region critical to our interests." Presumably any nation that came to rival American power could be deemed potentially "hostile" if its policies weren't aligned with those of the United States.

~snip~

... it spoke vaguely about "shaping the future security environment." In other words, America would not sit back and wait for threats or rivals to emerge...Libby's revision (unlike the original) included numerous references to the importance of America's alliances and to the advisability of collective security. Yet it also repeatedly raised questions about whether collective action would work and left open the possibility the United States would act alone. "We will, therefore, not ignore the need to be prepared to protect our critical interests and honor our commitments with only limited additional help, or even alone, if necessary," the final version said. "A future President will need options allowing him to lead and, where the international reaction proves sluggish or inadequate, to act independently to protect our critical interests."

~snip~

... the statement of overall strategy -- essentially Libby's rewrite of Khalilzad's draft -- was declassified and published in January 1993, after the presidential election and shortly before the Bush administration left office. (issued under Cheney's name - Emit)

~snip~

Overall, the Democrats failed to come up with any clear alternative vision of American strategy that would forswear the 1992 vision of the United States as a sole superpower ... The Republicans didn't oppose Clinton's economic version of globalization, and the Democrats did not challenge the Republican military vision of America as the sole superpower. It sometimes seemed as though America's two leading parties were playing the same recording. When Democrats held the White House, they turned up the economic treble. When the Republicans took over, they turned up the military bass.

[stop the bleeding]

204. Emit I love your posts - thank you, very interesting, Fitz picked a good

one by indicting Libby.

[H2O Man]

206. Regarding Scooter ....

When Fitzgerald indicted Scooter, a number of DUers were upset, because they believed Rove was a more important target. I believe that this was, in large part, because Karl Rove is better known, due to his high profile in the media. But, Libby was actually far more important as far as the administration's foreign policy, the Iraqi war, and the Plame scandal.

[PhilipShore]

124. WP/AP: Libby: White House 'Superiors' OK'd Leaks

Washington Post/AP
Libby: White House 'Superiors' OK'd Leaks
February 9, 2006

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020901745.html

WASHINGTON -- A former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney told a federal grand jury that his superiors authorized him to give secret information to reporters as part of the Bush administration's defense of intelligence used to justify invading Iraq, according to court papers.

[Halliburton]

157. was this the old grand jury or the new one?

I'm guessing it's the old one but the statement is vague.

[Babel_17]

128. Legs, this story has :) Nominated (nt)

[Nothing Without Hope]

135. Big, and what we believed. What i want to know now is this:

How will Bush's sneak recess appointment of Alice Fisher to head the Criminal division of the DoJ compromise the eventual criminal trial coming out of Fitz's investigation? Read more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x41598
thread title (1/3 GD): Alice Fisher DOJ Prosecutor/ Ties to Gitmo Interrogations/Chertoff/DeLay
Comment/excerpt: “Alice S. Fisher was appointed (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050831-5.html) by President George W. Bush in a recess appointment August 31, 2005, as Assistant Attorney General to head the Criminal Division in the Department of Justice. Fisher was nominated March 29, 2005, and her nomination was sent to the Senate April 4, 2005. Her nomination was stalled over interrogation tactics at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, naval facility. … She also been a long-time protégé of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff," Vermont Senator Patrick J. Leahy said …. Leahy also expressed concerns about Fisher's "views on checks of controversial provisions of the Patriot Act and her opposition to the Act’s sunset provision; her participation in meetings in which the FBI expressed its disagreement with harsh interrogation methods practiced by the military toward detainees held at Guantanamo, and her ideas about appropriate safeguards for the treatment of enemy combatants." Leahy was also concerned about "reports that she has had ties to Congressman Tom DeLay’s defense team" and "also to know what steps she to take to avoid a conflict of interest in the Department’s investigation of lobbyist Jack Abramoff and possibly Mr. DeLay."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x46329
thread title (1/4 GD): I find this very interesting and disturbing
Comment/excerpt: Another thread on Alice Fisher and the massive conflict of interest

[land of the free]

141. this was the #2 story on NBC nightly news tonight

after the LA bombing plot story (which Brian Williams basically ridiculed based on the timing).

They covered it with a bit of time, discussing how Libby claims Cheney authorized him to disclose the NIE information, and that would be illegal. However, Cheney claims the National's story is in error.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the press smell blood and keep on top of this story? Let's hope so.

[bush_is_wacko]

142. I have been afraid of the "classified" game from the get go...

Not only with regard to the Libby investigation but also the Warrantless wiretapping, the secret prisons, torture...

This is a well known and widely practiced BFEE specialty. They perfected it with good ol' Ollie and they are going to continue to use it.

Hell they are using it for EVERYTHING and even some of their faithful followers are still buying it!

This is frustrating as hell! :banghead:

Will they ever REALLY be held accountable or is someone going to have to break in to the WH in the dark of night with authorization from military intelligence to get the goods on these scumbags?!?!? FAT CHANCE OF THAT HAPPENING, BTY!

[Loge23]

148. Get out of our house!

The White House and Blair House are owned by us.
Our tenents are breaking the law, lying to us, and basically creating havoc.
They must leave. NOW!!

[usregimechange]

153. kick

[peacetalksforall]

155. I think it's a mistake and a waste if we don't pursue the Brewster-

Jennings motive. Dick HAD to shut B-J down. Cheney was dealing in weapons with Khan of Pakistan and Don was busy planting wmd in Iraq. Brewster-Jennings - tracked the trafficking and movements of wmd. (Is that a fair way to say what they did?

For Cheney - it was 'dollars' all around - his own deals with Khan and the riches of Iraq which were going to be hiw own, so to speak - through Halliburton.

For Don - finding wmd in Iraq was 'political capital' for PNAC and the barons.

Yes, it is a waste of time getting hung up on Plame alone.

[Emit]

182. I know your frustration

In trying to follow this, I am frustrated at the lack of info we can get about Brewster-Jennings -- what their true role was, Plame's role at B-J, etc. aside from what we've already been able to learn about it from just a few sources who've been able to mostly speculate at this point. Of course, it's really hard to just google B-J and expect to find out that they were a CIA/WMD tracking company/facade and further, that they were closing in on Cheney! I sure wish someone with more info on them could come out and be more candid about B-J's role and how it relates -- I'm sure it's the key factor. Of course, that kind of leak would have further ramifications for those who worked for B-J, as well as problems for any potential leakers (i.e., getting suicided).

I'm hoping that it won't be years from now that I have to find out this info in some book.

[peacetalksforall]

187. Yes, more knowledge, but I think we should incorporate the motive

in the discussions because the more we talk about it the closer to the truth we'll get. We need to keep reaching and reminding. It really works when someone remembers a link or an earlier thread or something that links something from Juan Cole or someone else. We need all kinds of lights going off.

Eventually, we might learn from the civil trial that Plame-Wilson is talking of filing, but a trial could go behind close doors. I am sure the suit will be for damages, but we might get tidbits.

I think we have to do a lot of dot connecting on our own when we see this piece, plus this other piece and see some stickeing together like a fine puzzle.

I remember reading a long time ago about contractors sitting around in Kuwait of Qatar (?) just waiting to plant the wmd that were in storage.

Now, Don is talking about still finding them. You can do all kinds of things when you have friends across the border. Enemies, also. Blink and someone crosses a border.

[Peace Patriot]

197. Well, not a waste of time, if it ends up removing criminals from office--

but I agree, there is much more to Traitorgate than the Valerie Plame outing.

[Christa]

167. Main article on Yahoo now

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak

[wordpix2]

179. big story on Olbermann and that latest MSNBC clip of Libby is telling

Libby smiling while walking with his lawyers, looking like he's on a big Prozac high, then he stumbles and breaks out in laughter. Certainly didn't look like a guy having his reputation and career ruined.

[Selteri]

180. Their supreme arrogance never ceases to amaze me.

The complicity of the press to not cover a major revelation like that by blasting it on every airwave is even more shocking though. That is effectively the second confession of guilt in what is becomming an amazing and overwhealming situation where one has to wonder how can any sane and right or left thinking person not look at this in abject terror as it is revealed that these people with delusions of a fudal system, wishing to step back into the dark ages for the power it provides the despot. These discpicable people are completely insane and are proving more and more that they would do anything and employ any means to control everyone.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

181. Cheney ain't gonna like this.

Poor, dumb son-of-a-bitch.

[Canuckistanian]

190. Is there a precedent for impeaching a Vice-President?

Has it ever come this close before? What about Spiro Agnew? Did anyone at the time whisper the I-word?

[f-bush]

191. Sounds like impeachment time for...

both shrub and darth!

[leveymg]

196. NYT buried the story -- Judy Miller also implicated.

Just a little follow-up to the bigger story that's on the DU Frontpage, above. The NYT this morning has placed the Cheney-Libby story at the bottom of the Washington section. I couldn't find it in the main headline area, and thought that maybe the Waas story hadn't been confirmed. Ouch. But, lo and behold, it confirms something about the Times - it's an all-but-dead newspaper.

Ex-Cheney Aide Testified Leak Was Ordered, Prosecutor Says
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/10/politics/10leak.html
Printer-Friendly
Save Article


By NEIL A. LEWIS
Published: February 10, 2006
WASHINGTON, Feb. 9 — I. Lewis Libby Jr., the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, told a grand jury that he was authorized by his "superiors" to disclose classified information to reporters about Iraq's weapons capability in June and July 2003, according to a document filed by a federal prosecutor.

The document shows that Mr. Libby, known as Scooter, was actively engaged in the Bush administration's public relations effort to rebut complaints that there was little evidence to support the claim that Saddam Hussein possessed or sought weapons of mass destruction, which was used to justify the invasion of Iraq.

The document is part of the prosecutors' case against Mr. Libby, who has been indicted on charges that he lied about his role in exposing the identity of a C.I.A. operative to journalists.

The prosecutor, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, said in a letter to Mr. Libby's lawyers last month that Mr. Libby had testified before the grand jury that "he had contacts with reporters in which he disclosed the content of the National Intelligence Estimate ('NIE')," that discussed Iraq's nuclear weapons capability. "We also note that it is our understanding that Mr. Libby testified that he was authorized to disclose information about the NIE to the press by his superiors."

Also note: neither the headline nor the lead paragraphs mention Cheney as anything other than Libby's former boss. This is a prime example of why the New York Times is no longer the news source of record in the United States. We have to read down to the bottom of the story to find the likely reason the editors want to shove this story out of sight:

"Mr. Fitzgerald said in his letter that Mr. Libby discussed the contents of the classified report in a July 8 meeting — 10 days before it was declassified — with Judith Miller, then a reporter at The Times. Ms. Miller, who spent 85 days in jail before agreeing to testify in the leak case, has told the grand jury that Mr. Libby told her about Ms. Wilson at the same meeting."

Oh, that's why. Grey Lady's still part of the problem.

- Mark

[stop the bleeding]

205. yep - in my readings last night with all of the news breaking left and

right I had this same thought/conclusion about Snooty Miller. However I was a little busy and couldn't post a comment about it yet. I hadn't seen the NYT version and this is most intriguing as well.

So not only do they acknowledge this story by Waas like the AP has done, but the NYT realizes how much fallout is going to occur over this. :popcorn:

[Trevelyan]

232. Rosenbaum's last piece for the TIMES was published on 12/24/2005

Rosenbaum's last piece for the TIMES was published on 12/24/2005, and reported that Samuel Alito had authored a 1984 memo arguing that then-President Reagan had the right to order wiretaps without warrants.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30C12F83E540C778EDDAB0994DD404482
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/national/09rosenbaum.html
"Mr. Rosenbaum served at various times as chief Congressional correspondent, chief domestic policy correspondent, chief economics correspondent, assistant news editor and business editor in the Washington bureau of The Times.For years, he was the specialist of an occasional Times feature called The Fine Print, which dissected hidden, confusing or hypocritical details of legislation that was pending or just passed." Rosenbaum was mugged to death two weeks later, as Alito's confirmation hearings are about to begin? Small world, isn't it? And full of odd coincidences.

=http://www.nbc4.com/news/6161498/detail.html Possible Manchurian-type patsy ? One possibility, yes. 2006-01-13 Another is the cops are under heat to find someone to take the rap to make the heat go away. So they put out some totally unrelated video. Arrest people and lie about the whole thing. (Round up the usual suspects)Then follow well established torture procedures (recall the Chicago cop torture presentation by an activist group recently to the OECD.) and get "confessions".

An innocent guy would wonder why he was on TV. :shrug:

:wtf: "Police have also been faulted for not roping off the crime scene after learning early the next morning that Rosenbaum had been assaulted. They did not secure the scene until just after 11 a.m., friends of the Rosenbaums have said." It's not like the D. C. cops have never had experience with a murder scene before. Allowing crime scenes to be contaminated is one of the key signs of conspiracy. The intention is to make it impossible to find evidence disproving guilt of the patsies.

Friday, January 13, 2006 Why is my face on TV? :shrug: (Somebody get this patsy a lawyer and protection for his family--then his cousin was arrested)From the Washington Post account of the 'solving' of the David Rosenbaum assassination (my emphasis throughout in bold): "A 23-year-old maintenance man from Southeast Washington was arrested last night and charged in the robbery and slaying of New York Times journalist David E. Rosenbaum, police said. They also were seeking one other person. Michael C. Hamlin was arrested shortly after 6 p.m. when he walked into the 7th District police station in the 2400 block of Alabama Avenue SE, which is in the block where he lives, and asked why 'my face is on TV,' police said."and: "Only an hour earlier, police had released to the media images from surveillance videotapes taken at a CVS store in Southeast Washington and an auto parts business in Prince George's County. Police said the tapes showed Hamlin using or attempting to use Rosenbaum's credit cards shortly after Rosenbaum was robbed near his home in Northwest Washington on Jan. 6.

Hamlin walked into the police station last night wearing the same dark jacket, with his first name sewed onto a chest patch, that he had been wearing in a surveillance tape, police said."and: "'It did wrap up rather quickly,' Detective Anthony Paci said during a news conference last night outside the violent crimes branch." ==Yeah, kinda strange isn't it. It's one thing to go turn yourself in, that's not unusual when a person realizes it's inevitable he'll be caught. But it doesn't sound like he was turning himself in, sounds more like he was trying to clear his name... Hopefully more info will come out.

Sounds like he might be a patsy, one way or another. Who knows, maybe the fuzz had some info on him about another crime that they were holding over his head... Maybe he received the credit card from the person who did it or was hired to do it...Anyway, it seems a bit suspicious when they catch such 'criminals' so quickly, doesn't it? I mean, even in a "slam-dunk" case like Scott Peterson killing his wife a few years ago, they wouldn't even call him a 'suspect' for months and months. But then when there's a big complex case like the 9-11 attack, they're showing Osama Bin Laden's face on the news within a day or two. "Yep, he's the one behind this..." That way, the average news consumer will not spend much time thinking about it or really questioning it--"Oh, it's been resolved, they know who did it, I don't have to think about it anymore..." Then the rest of their mental energy is spent adorning that 'fact' that they've been presented with, and their belief in this early-formed conclusion will persist more durably, thus innoculating them against inconvenient facts that might later come to light.
America has become #1 at lying to its own people.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/5596735.html

=Debate in Senate on Alito Heats Up Over '85 Memo November 17, 2005, Thursday
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK (NYT); National Desk -T he debate over the Supreme Court nomination of Judge Samuel A. Alito Jr. escalated into a full-fledged fight in the Senate Wednesday as top Democrats sounded new alarms about his approach to the law and Republicans warned that any effort to block a vote on him would be ''outrageous.''...http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70D15FA3A5A0C748DDDA80994DD404482&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fS%2fSchumer%2c%20Charles%20E%2e

WASHINGTON — A suspect in the beating death of New York Times reporter David
Rosenbaum turned himself in to police Thursday night after TV stations broadcast surveillance images showing his face.=If a crook had found and used a credit card conveniently left in a bad part of town, I could see him walking into a police station to try to talk his way out of trouble. A murderer, however, would not seem a likely candidate to try such an approach. Even dumbasses have watched "NYPD Blue" and other police propaganda shows and would probably not want to go in for the full treatment. Also, I have seen no mention of this man having a prior criminal record.

The assassination of David Rosenbaum - David Rosenbaum, a reporter and editor for the New York Times, died as a result of a head injury allegedly received when he was mugged in his upper-scale neighborhood in Washington. Problems with this:...http://www.xymphora.blogspot.com/ =Rosenbaum's last piece for the TIMES was published on 12/24/2005, and reported that Samuel Alito had authored a 1984 memo arguing that then-President Reagan had the right to order wiretaps without warrants.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30C12F83E540C778EDDAB0994DD404482 A lot of unknowns remain regarding this story. It very well may have been a "legitimate" mugging...a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
:scared: Then again, it may have been a "message" to the NYT.:scared:

...arouse suspicion. UNLESS this hit was intended as a warning to others.
If this a was mob hit then it was to send a warning to others of his ilk. The others will know this was suspicious. BTW, if they wanted to shut him up they could easily make it look natural, no need to arouse suspicion. UNLESS this hit was intended as a warning to others. "Declassified NSA documents confirm recent events - Internet wiretapping mixes "protected" and targeted messages, Info Age requires rethinking 4th Amendment limits and policies, National Security Agency told Bush administration http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/

Medical Condition Suspected at First In Journalist's Fall
:wtf:Hours Elapsed Before It Was Evident Rosenbaum Had Been Beaten, Robbed:wtf: (Not only did the police think he was drunk and missed Rosenbaum's bashed in head until a bystander pressured them to call the ambulance which took more than twice as long to show up BUT ALSO THE HOSPITAL ER DOCTORS MISSED HIS BLUNT FORCE TRAMA INJURY AT BACK OF HEAD FOR SEVERAL HOURS - Rosenbaum survived for two days after the attack)
January 10, 2006; B02 By Del Quentin Wilber and Debbi Wilgoren Washington Post Staff The murder weapon should be an issue. From the New York Times January 13 article:...

="The authorities attributed the cause of death to blunt force trauma to his head, neck and body. Detective Paci said that robbery was the motive and that Mr. Hamlin had promised to lead officers to the murder weapon. The weapon was described as a bat or a pole."The Washington Post article of January 13 said: "Shortly before 9 p.m., police escorted a handcuffed Hamlin to look for a weapon - possibly a bat or a tire iron - that may have been used in the slaying. It was not clear where they went." Now, it's a metal pipe:"Court papers show that Hamlin told investigators that another man beat Rosenbaum over the head with a metal pipe and Hamlin took his wallet."

It's been at least a week since I killed somebody by coshing them on the back of the head, but I can still remember what weapon I used. I wonder why these guys can't.

[Ecumenist]

200. Well, well, well...

Finally, someone notices, (or rather admits it) the BIG, FAT ELEPHANT, (pun intended) in the room. :banghead: This is about as shocking as a blue sky, for crying out loud. Wonder how many more right wing idiots will snap out of it with this latest revelation or will they continue to ignore what is right in from of their noses?

[insane_cratic_gal]

202. This means Karl is toast too right

"Libby also testified that he worked closely with then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove in deciding what information to leak to the press to build public support for the war"

This seems to suggest that Karl did indeed know he had classified information and leaked it and advised others to leak it and to whom.

[Kolesar]

213. Rumsfeld will take over as VP & Cheney will go back to Halliburton

Those two Reagan-era warmongers have been running the government ever since bush* took over. Who else would succeed than Ronald Dumsfeld? Cheney will still keep an office nearby and Washington and the invasion of Iran will go as scheduled.

[Emit]

219. That's an interesting thought: Rumsfeld, that is, as VP

Let's not forget that Rumsfeld made a run for presidency in the 80s. I can see him pressing for VP. Here's yet another excerpt from Rise of the Vulcans:

One day the following year (1986) (William) Kristol (aide to then Secretary of education William Bennett and now editor/co-creator of Weekly Standard and current Chairman of PNAC - Emit) was invited to breakfast at Washington's Madison Hotel by someone he barely knew, Donald Rumsfeld. The message was simple: Rumsfeld was planning to run for the 1988 Republican presidential nomination against Vice President George H. W. Bush and was looking for someone who might help him run his campaign. Kristol later recalled that Rumsfeld portrayed himself as someone who was "hardheaded, a conservative type ... He didn't have a high opinion of Bush, I believe."

Donald Rumsfeld had never discouraged others from thinking he might someday be president of the United States. His resume and his limitless ambition were his calling cards. Party leaders, among them Rumsfeld's old boss Richard Nixon, made sure Rumsfeld was always on the list of Republican presidential candidates for the future.

~snip~

(George Shultz supported him, even though Shultz was serving under Reagan/Bush as secretary of state at the time, as did Frank Carlucci, the then national security adviser and now of Carlyle Group-Emit)

Finally, in the mid-1980s, Rumsfeld decided the time seemed right, both politically and personally, to run for president ... (and) started his campaign in late 1985.

"In the 1988 primaries, Rumsfeld could well emerge as a tough-minded conservative alternative to Vice President George Bush," wrote Chicago Tribune political reporter Steve Neal. Rumsfeld especially portrayed himself as a hawk on foreign policy ...

From the outset, however, there were difficulties with Rumsfeld's conservative strategy. Although Reagan had managed to unify the right wing of the Republican party, by the late 1980s it was beginning to fragment in such a way that no single conservative challenger to Bush would emerge in 1988.

(His contenders were Jack Kemp--whom the "supporters of supply-side economics were lining up behind" and the neoconservatives like Kristol supported Kemp, too. Pat Robertson had the support of the "social conservatives." - Emit)

Rumsfeld was loosely identified with the old Nixon-Ford wing of the Republican party, not with the newer, more populist Reagan wing, making his effort to emerge as the conservative candidate all the more difficult ... polls showed that not many people recognized his name ... Rumsfeld found that he was unable to raise as much money as he wanted.

On April 1, 1987, nearly a year before the fist primaries, Rumsfeld suddenly withdrew...

... Yet Rumsfeld's inability to raise money was perhaps as much a reflection of his failed candidacy as its cause ... If Republican presidential nominees had been selected by the National Security Council, Rumsfeld might well have won. (the author is referencing and implying back to Rumsfeld's backing by Shultz and Carlucci here - Emit) pp. 165 - 167

TheBorealAvenger, you wrote: "Those two Reagan-era warmongers have been running the government ever since bush* took over..."

That is correct, and, Cheney-Rumsfeld duo go back further than the Reagan-era warmongers. (Many DUers are much more politically savvy than I -- as I am a relative new-comer to politics in general, and younger than some here -- so some of this info may be redundant or even well-known to many others, but much of it is news to me and it's fascinating to see the connections of these old farts who now control our country. I recommend this book, Rise of the Vulcans)

More:

... The month after Ford was sworn in, he brought Rumsfeld back from NATO as the White House chief of staff...Rumsfeld quickly installed Cheney as his deputy, the same aid-de-camp role that Cheney had played under Rumsfeld in the Nixon administration. The two men held these positions for more than a year, until Ford appointed Rumsfeld his secretary of defense and named Cheney to be Rumsfeld's successor as White House chief of staff. Throughout the entire Ford administration the Rumsfeld-Cheney duo worked closely together, establishing mastery over the internal workings of government. There was never any doubt that Rumsfeld was the senior figure. Cheney was only thirty-three years old when he joined the Ford administration, and as one colleague put it at the time, "Cheney's adult life had been devoted to the study of political science and the service of Donald Rumsfeld."

According to Robert Ellsworth, who served in Congress alongside Rumsfeld in the 1960s and then worked with him in the Nixon and Ford administrations, there is an old bit of folk wisdom that has been quietly passed around among Republicans for decades. The saying is short and simple: "Donald Rumsfeld does not lose." ...

That is, to be sure, a slight overstatement. Over his long career Rumsfeld has occasionally lost out on a few things, big and small -- not least his desire to become president of the United States. Yet Ellsworth's slogan is largely true as a description of Rumsfeld's record when it comes to bureaucratic skirmishes; rarely has anyone bested Rumsfeld in a power struggle or a test of wills inside government. Ellsworth's slogan was regularly borne out in the Ford administration, when Rumsfeld overcame one rival after another inside the Ford White House and within the foreign policy apparatus.

First, during late 1974 and early 1975 Rumsfeld and Cheney established their dominance over the White House staff and domestic policy, pushing to the side the president's staff aides from his days as House minority leader and vice president. Next, in 1975 they began to undercut the power of Kissinger and of Kissinger's ally and friend Vice President Nelson Rockefeller. Finally, in late 1975 and 1976 Rumsfeld posed a frontal challenge to Kissinger's policies of detente and arms control with the Soviet Union. Each time the consequences were larger, the battles more intense. In these intra-administration battles, Rumsfeld never lost, and Cheney was regularly at his side... pp. 58-59

And, I noted on H2O Man's excellent thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=321233#325717

on post # 95 an excerpt detailing Rumsfeld and Cheney's "Armageddon exercises of the Reagan era."

It wouldn't surprise me, if Cheney goes down, that this weren't even somehow pre-arranged or, tactically, a sacrificial move with these warmongering, power hungry, corporatist ideologues.

edited for typos

[stop the bleeding]

220. kudos Emit on another wonderful post - thanks for the info n/t

[Kolesar]

226. Wow. There's a whole world that no one ever sees

good work, Emit

[Me.]

217. Fabulous Thread STB

good stuff

[texpatriot2004]

218. Impeach the terrorists NOW! nm

[MellowOne]

221. In a "real world"

The media would be all over this.

[stop the bleeding]

222. Yahoo, the AP, the NYT and many other outlets have reported this

since this story came out yesterday, Google may shed some light on this.

[Emit]

225. kick -- too important to let die yet. n/t

[louis c]

230. Isn't treason a Capital Offense?

I knew the right wing could get me to change my mind on the death penalty.

[greiner3]

234. So let me see if I've got this right;

The enemy (Scooter) of my enemy (hitler and goebbels) is my enemy?

No, that's not right. The enemy of my enemy is a nasty piece of human flotsam. Sounds right, but it just doesn't have the right ring to it.

The enemy of my enemy is my; no, I can't say it! It would be great if scooter could bring down the house but I can't bring my self to ever calling him anything but the enemy.