I Find The Reid/Abramoff Thing Discouraging.

[cali]

Maybe it's all on the up and up, but it doesn't look good. None of the four tribes involved gave to Reid prior to Abramoff representing them. That's the Coushatta, Agua Caliente, Mississippi Choctaw and Saginaw. I fail to see how these tribes interests have anything to do with any interests that Reid represents. I may well just be ignorant, but it makes me uncomfortable.

[EFerrari]

1. Good. Karl is pleased.

You have no real information beyond coincidence and you doubt Reid. :eyes:

[_testify_]

3. I think there should be a little 'debunked' graphic next to these threads.

Kind of like the little fiery 'hot topic' icon?

[EFerrari]

6. Or an "AAAAAAAAAaaaYYYYYYYYEEEEEee" icon.

Elad is a gifted guy. :)

[annabanana]

60. how about one of these

[_testify_]

64. ROFL the 2nd one is freakin awesome!!! n/t

[EFerrari]

71. I like "Gaah!" lol

because that is what the Cabal reduces me to sometimes.

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

70. LOL!

:rofl:

I think we need them ALL!

:loveya:

[Patsy Stone]

90. Those are great!

:thumbsup:!

[gkhouston]

7. it would be nice

considering this is the third or fourth time this has cropped up today and this was debunked weeks ago.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. It's almost as if coordinated by a signal. Uncanny, isn't it?

[EFerrari]

12. . . .

[_testify_]

can I steal your thunder? pun intended!

kick-ass smilie, may I?

[EFerrari]

33. No one should be without it, lol, or one like it. : )

[KittyWampus]

53. Why is your smilie shooting an arrow at a Frog Prince?

[EFerrari]

56. Passive aggressive smilie?

The deal is, AIM!

:)

[H2O Man]

68. Yep.

Pathetic.

[Jane Austin]

30. Oh, what a good idea!

For myself, I am discouraged by this story being posted over and over again. :(

[rpgamerd00d]

59. OR THIS:

[_testify_]

63. PERFECT!

Permission to post that when this thread pops up again?

[rpgamerd00d]

72. ya

[burythehatchet]

21. He's a good foot soldier

God love DU for allowing this crap to be posted.

[H2O Man]

81. Right.

It's sad. Obvious, and sad.

[minvis]

2. Check this out

This may give you some comfort.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/2/9/163540/9804

[medeak]

thank you for this!!!!!!

kick and kick... it needs it's own thread!!!!

[KoKo]

24. An Excellent link which explains alot..........check it out....those

who have questions...and they ARE legitimate questions. But read the comments and then let it rest for a few days.

[SmokingJacket]

36. Thanks!!!!!!! Excellent article. nt

[cali]

49. Thanks for that

and thanks for not jumping to the idiotic conclusion that I'm either a freeper mole or an easily duped idiot . I found the mydd analysis reassuring, but I did not that he inserted a caveat stating that if he was wrong,etc. I know Reid came out recently and strongly denied any allegations of impropriety. He'd better do it again, and explain in depth. Whatever anyone in here says, it doesn't look good out there.

[EFerrari]

61. Reid has issued several statements.

Did you even do one search before you posted this OP?

[KoKo]

76. I can't get angry at the OP because of this...Dems are so used to stuff

being used against us that the OP really might just have needed "SUPPORT" for position. And I think Cali got it here...if she needed a "strong shoulder."

[EFerrari]

80. Sure. And a question is more useful posted as a question

than as an accusation and a judgment -- or, we're doing their work for them.

I may just be too grumpy to live this week. If that is true. I apologize.

[KoKo]

85. I don't know...I do stupid stuff like that all the time...

I've got to assume the OP had a legit question....didn't seem like a Troll/Freep to me..but who knows these days.......

[EFerrari]

98. No, this was not a troll/freep situation. We get frustrated with

each other.

Who else really listens?

lol

[KoKo]

101. I know...lol's...when the "blood boils" :D ...n/t

[bluerum]

4. The Kkkarl machine is working overtime today. Terra in LA and

democratic corruption in Nevada. Woe is me.
:eyes:

[jillan]

5. Reid is going to have to come out with a strong statement....

again.

People are going to read that article.
Not everyone has DUer's to make them relax about it.

Sad, but true.
He came out blasting the repugs for this.
They found ties to Reid...Now is the time for dems
to gather together and stand up against the spin that is going
to take place when the rw shills get ahold of it.

[OzarkDem]

66. Reid is a good target for the GOP

While he has no problem with Abramoff, he's weak and very slow to defend himself or his party. The lies will take hold in public opinion because Reid will do such a crappy job of defending himself.

His own fault, I say. Better that he resign since he's not strong enough to stand up to these kinds of attacks.

[EFerrari]

74. I guess I disagree. Reid is easily twice the fighter that his

predessor was. And the Thugs know it because they've been at him since day one.

They want to get rid of him so badly, he better screen his mail.

Go, Harry.

[Botany]

8. Pure B.S.

This is creative response concepts & Rove.

Reid did not take one dime from Abramoff .......
And every penny he got from the tribes was legal.

Remember? Gore invented the internet
or Kerry helped the V.C.. or McCain's black love baby.

[EFerrari]

17. Come on! What are the CHANCES of a Nevada Senator

being lobbied by an INDIAN TRIBE?

:rofl:

[Botany]

23. Well he has said on the record that 22 tribes call Nevada home and

that he has one aid that is in charge of natives and that if
he didn't represent them he wouldn't be doing his job.

But give the repugs time and they will say anything.

[EFerrari]

40. And we will pick it up and repeat it, I guess.

:slaps forehead:

[cali]

57. The Dean

line about Abramoff not giving a cent to dems is good politics, and I applaud it, but Abramoff was slinging funds other than his own all over the congress. I hope no dems gave him any quid for his quo, but I'm hardly so naive as to believe that only pukes can be bribed. You don't actually believe that all dems are pure as the driven snow, do you?

[rpgamerd00d]

86. Yes, Dems are 100% not involved, period.

Go freep someplace else.

[cali]

93. Enough

with the ad hominem attacks. Calling someone a freeper is against the rules of the board. Once was OK. You're fairly new here. Do it again, and I'm hitting alert. Have we cleared that up? I certainly hope so.

[MadMaddie]

9. The bottom line is...if he is involved he has to go...

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. BUT, he's NOT involved. He didn't get ONE CENT from Abramoff.

The ONLY monies he got was from the Tribes and he's ALWAYS gotten contributions from Tribes...even BEFORE Abramoff took over K Street. PLUS, NO LEGISLATION WAS CHANGED BECAUSE OF DIRTY MONEY REID GOT FROM ABRAMOFF. THAT is what the repukes did to BREAK THE LAW.

[MadMaddie]

29. Let me clarify...

If he is clean than that is the best news.

But if he or any other Dem is involved with this scandel we have to clean house too.

[EFerrari]

44. The point is, Maddie, this isn't news. n/t

[EFerrari]

20. What are you talking about? There is no "if".

LOL!

Abramoff did not invent nor did he own Indian tribes in NEVADA.

[cali]

67. Do you bother reading?

In my original post, I wrote that these 4 tribes-one from Louisiana, one from Mississippi, one from Michigan, and one from, I believe, California, had never given to Reid prior to hiring Abramoff. In other words, my giggly little friend, these tribes are not from Nevada.

[EFerrari]

77. Nice personal attack, cali.

So, how far do you take guilt by association for the Republicans?

:hi:

[EFerrari]

83. That was out of line. I'm sorry. n/t

[cali]

87. Look, I appreciate

the apology you posted below, and I apologize for being snarky, but you and others have sneered at me up and down this thread, without even reading what I wrote. I've read all the stories that came out today, and now I've read the analysis in mydd. Even if Reid is completely clean, it looks lousy. I don't think my concerns are so far fetched. Have you read today's stories?

[EFerrari]

89. Okay. I think this is the deal.

They accuse. We respond, we clarify and put groundless accusations to rest.

Then, they ressurect them and, we start all over again. Their message (he is corrupt) is disseminated, and we are always in a ditch.

I don't know what the solution to this is, in fact. But maybe one of them is to do some work before we disseminate doubt.

In a normal world, we would have no reason to be hypervigilant. But, this is BushWorld -- at least for now.

I think this thread (and more innocent threads to come) will get this kind of reaction. (I cop to my reactiveness, and apologize again.)

It would be cool if we learned to listen with our left ear for these baseless and persistant accusations but listen with our good ear for fact, strength, movement.

If we would be willing to, say, celebrate the life of Coretta Scott King for longer than we obsessed over the calculated Thug deflaters. If we learned to simply register the latest attack without endorsing it, backhand.

[Jane Austin]

38. Have you read the posts before yours in this thread?

It doesn't sound like you have.

[medeak]

11. where do you get your facts?

Reid has ALWAYS received funds from tribes for gawds sake..

back up what your saying.

[sandnsea]

13. Controlling gambling expansion

No I can't see how Reid would be interested in that at all. :eyes:

[KoKo]

14. Josh Marshall said it's "pretty weak stuff" so I'm going to hold my

opinion until I see some more about it. Just remember that AP who released this article has posted stuff that's very pro-Repug in the past. They often distort articles in putting in some views and leaving out others.

It seems that it was a former Reid "counsel" on his staff that leaked this to AP (probably his lawyer) and he's under investigation in Abramoff case.

I'm going to wait on this. And, I do not like Reid and wish him gone from his Leadership Position...but I don't want to jump the gun.

Also a Freep/Troll was quick to post this on DU without even a link today. "Swift Boat Liars" anyone? That kind of clued me in that they hoped to see weeping and moaning on DU about this article from AP.

[Vinca]

15. Again . . .

Reid lives in a state that has both Native American tribes and gambling operations. It should not come as a surprise they would donate to their senator. Harry's bad if Harry does something specific in return for the cash. He hasn't.

[flyarm]

18. hold on..remember Reid is a mormon.,..don't jump to conclusions

stipid katie curic (?) needs cover for her fucking lies..this is a total rove move.,

H.Dean said ..the FEC records show no money came from Abramoff..period the end..

no money from Abramoff..thats where the problems and illegality sits..

so Abramoff has his people call reid ..does that mean he talked with reid?? they charge when they make a call even if they don't talk to Reid..

this is another fake rove bullshit set up!

fly

[burythehatchet]

19. Another thought provoking post

I think I'll go take a nap

[0007]

25. Yawn, I'm getting pretty kathish myself.

[FormerRepublican]

22. My take on this is anyone involved should go down regardless of party.

We don't need corrupt elected officials. If Reid is innocent, it will eventually come out. If he isn't, then he needs to pay for what he's done just like all the others.

[EFerrari]

27. It already came out. This is bullshit. The Southwest

has many tribes who all lobby their senators. Reid DID NOT GET ONE CENT FROM ABRAMOFF. This is just the Thugs trying to smear him. DU has been onto this for WEEKS.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.

I wish people would be just a TAD more careful before they judge their fighting Senate leader. It's just ridiculous already.

[KoKo]

28. I think most here would agree but check out the MYDD post link from

above before you decide. Just remember the "Swift Boat Type Liars" are still out there and being funded by the very same RW Machine money that installed Tom DeLay on Judicial/NASA Appropriations Committee Yesterday to fill in for defiled/crook Duke Cunningham.

The Repug Machine doesn't die it just keeps going....

[KoKo]

41. Here's a "snip" and the link:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/2/9/163540/9804

The kicker, of course, is that for all of their effort, Reid never supported the Abramoff position. The very definition of "quid pro quo" is "this for that." In politics, this means something valuable like money or gifts for a politician's votes or some other form of official support. In this case, though Reid or his staffers may have taken meetings on the subject, it never amounted to anything. In other words, there may have been quid, but there was no quo. So this convoluted story is just that -- a convoluted story. No climax, no punchline, and most importantly, no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Reid.

[arcane1]

26. what do they mean by "Abramoff's lobbying partners"?

does that mean his clients, or his actual employees/coworkers/whatervers?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

31. Clients. So, I guess if I shop at Safeway, that makes me

Safeway's client.

Notice: this smear depends upon the possesive for it's force: "Abramoff's clients"?

I also shop at many other places. . . .

[arcane1]

46. ah, so they are calling them "partners"...

to make it appear that they were working together, instead of in a client/rep relationship

no surprise there

:grr:

[EFerrari]

52. Yes! They'll be calling them "wives" soon, lol.

You get the picture.

The Southwest is rich with autonomous Native American groups.

It's like Rove saying, "Beth fed cats. Abramoff fed cats. Beth is a crook."

:rofl:

[arcane1]

115. "gay lovers" at the very least, I'm sure!

Beth posts on DU

Freeper trolls post on DU

ergo, Beth is a freeper troll


hey, twisted logic is fun! :rofl:

[Jane Austin]

48. It means Abramoff worked at a very large and influential law firm that

specialized in lobbying. His "lobbying partners" would be any partner or associate in that firm, even if they had absolutely nothing to do with Abramoff.

It's a red herring.

[bluerum]

32. Appears to be strictly legit lobbyist/client relations. Albeit the

authors of the article, JOHN SOLOMON and SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writers tried to obfuscate and smear.

Who the hell are these writers working for? Are they just stupid? Lazy? Or are they trying to tie as many democratic names to Abramoff as they can? To do so is to pretty much admit that Abramoff is poison and that he can be used against the dems somehow. Personally I think that they were put on this trail by KKKarl and his Storm Troopers.

What we need to understand is that this is and has been a republican issue from day one - no matter how they try to smear the dems with him. There has been no credible evidence to the contrary. Stories like this are simple misdirection.

[EFerrari]

37. I don't always agree with Harry Reid. But that doesn't matter.

This is a smear.

We have a choice: do we move the smear forward or do we watch his AND our backs?

/typo

[KoKo]

45. I don't either, but this SHOUTS SMEAR! Let's hold judgement until

we have more info on this...

Thanks for saying that..:D

[EFerrari]

51. I don't know about his junk drawer, but the chances of being

a Senator in Nevada and being lobbied by Indian tribes is just about 100%.

So, Reid is being smeared for just being.

If the Thugs had anything on him, you would know about it by now, doncha think? All they can really say is that the Senator from Nevada was lobbied by Indian tribes. lol

[bluerum]

55. This attempted smear has been debunked already. See links in

posts above. Talking Points Memo.

I have issue with the writers of the article. They conveniently left out the fact that Reid did not act for or against or in any way sell out to Abramoff and his clients.

They lead readers to the brink and imply that Reid took money to take action for Abramoff clients. He did not. To make that implication borders on slander. I wonder if Reid has a defamation case here.

on edit: added link.

[flyarm]

34. posting again the FEC said NO DEMS TOOK MONEY FROM ABRAMOFF

http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2006/01/dean_crushes_bl.htm

BLITZER: Should Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, who's now pleaded guilty to bribery charges among other charges, a Republican lobbyist in Washington — should the Democrats who took money from him give that money to charity or give it back?
DEAN: There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff. Not one. Not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a Republican, every person under investigation is a Republican, every person indicted is a Republican. This is a Republican finance scandal. There is no evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money, and we've looked through all those FEC reports to make sure that's true.

THE FEC REPORTS NO DEM TOOK MONEY FROM ABRAMOFF!

so if rove wants to twist and turn this to try to water down the crimes of rethugs..how many lies are we ..going to buy into?? thats exactly what rove wants us to do..i am not biting...

i say ..show me the money ..first!
i already saw the lists of rethugs who took money from Abramoff..

and Reids name wasn't on the list!

fly

[Old and In the Way]

35. So, how are those Red Sox gonna do this year?

Damn, I going to miss Damon playing centerfield....

[EFerrari]

39. Lol! Oh, don't tease me with baiseball. : )

[flyarm]

42. i am going to miss all the wild hair on damon!!...lol..n/t

[Botany]

50. this help?

[flyarm]

ahhhh he is now too pretty!!..that wild beast look is gone! ahhhh n/t

[leftofthedial]

43. if there is the slightest taint, Reid needs to resign

4 contacts with Reid compared to 1000 a day with various repukes, but guess what the big corporate media focus will be.

[EFerrari]

47. Wtf? By the same reasoning, every Democrat in DC should just

go home.

Understand: they manufacture taint. If you need some, they can accomodate you.

Reid is not involved in this. And it's just weird the way DUers keep forgetting that. :eyes:

[leftofthedial]

97. what part of "if" didn't they teach you in school?

Reid knows if he did anything wrong or not. IF he did anything wrong, he should go asap. IF he didn't, then no worries.

[KoKo]

73. Agree...but hold your water till we get the REAL FACTS which are always

sorely missing with AP Reports. OKAY? :shrug:

[cascadiance]

54. We should challenge these bums to support public financing!

If any and every donation to the tribe they deem is bribery, and therefore it isn't possible for these Indian tribes to contribute VALID campaign contributions, then maybe they should be advocating that we go to public financing. That way we could say that these sort of contributions would likely be bribery then.

But would these bums that echo this through the RW press want public financing? HELL NO! That is they hypocrisy we should nail them with, which would also help us drive the public to see the value of getting public financing more available for campaigns.

[rpgamerd00d]

58. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO POST THIS GRAPHIC ?!?!?!

[EFerrari]

62. Thank you!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[cali]

79. It's cute.

Not necessarily accurate. Do you really believe all dems are pure as the fucking driven snow? I find your little graphic meaningless. The fact is, Reid never took money from the 4 tribes I referenced in my OP prior to Abramoff's taking those tribes on as clients. I like Reid. I hope he's clean. The information that came out today did not reassure me. None of those tribes are from Nevada. Reid wrote letters to the executive branch supporting positions advanced by Abramoff.

[rpgamerd00d]

82. Yes, all Dems are 100% innocent in this scandal.

Next freeper question?

Oops, was that my 'out loud' voice?

[cali]

88. Let's see,

I've got thousands more posts at DU than you have. That must make me some super duper undercover freeper, right? What a pathetic, banal ad hominem attack. Can't you do better? We have no way of knowing if any dems are implicated in this scandal. I hope they're not. I am convinced it's predominantly a repub scandal, but that doesn't mean no dems are involved.

[rpgamerd00d]

96. Ill spell it out for you.

Donations are legal.
Prior to Abramoff, donations were legal.
Post-Abramoff, donations are legal.

With me so far?

Tribes get called by Abramoff.
Tribes get scammed by Abramoff.

Abramoff bribes ONLY REPUBLICANS with scammed tribe money.

Tribes donate (legally) to Democrats.
Guess what? This is STILL LEGAL.

Have a nice day.

[cali]

100. Spell this

That's opinion, not fact. You do know the difference between the two, don't you?

[rpgamerd00d]

102. Wrong, its fact.

[EFerrari]

99. So, Dems are guilty until proven innocent?

On edit: is this seriously your position?

I'm a Green, btw, and just curious.

[cali]

106. No. Of course I'm not saying that

and I haven't said it anywhere in this thread. I sincerely hope that no dems are involved in the Abramoff mess, and maybe it is all a concerted effort to smear dems. I don't know. But just because someone's a dem, doesn't make them immune from corruption. I suspect you'd agree with me on this. (Whoa, I"m listening to Dean, and he's smacking hard on the repubs/Abramoff thing. Steve's asking him now about the news about Reid that came out today, and prior statements Dean made. Dean says he knows this reporter and he doesn't hold him in high regard, says he's gotten his facts wrong in the past) Anyway, I'm not suggesting that Reid is guilty. Or any other dem. But I'm worried, both by the possibility that some dems are involved, and by the very real appearance of wrong doing, even if they are completely innocent.

[Acebass]

65. Thats why it's in the news

to make you feel uncomfortable. In this internet age and everyone getting the news as fast as you can, has done more harm than good. People, many times, take the headlines as fact when the true story isn't anywhere close. We have to take the responsibility to research this stuff if we're going to post an opinion, to avoid the possibility of any more good people getting smeared...
Just do the research...

[EFerrari]

69. Yes. Headlines aren't facts; feelings aren't facts.

And Google is your friend.

If you have a question, it might be a good thing to post it as a question. DUers are great with real questions.

[Acebass]

75. No I understood where the blame lay...

or should I say Delay...

[EFerrari]

78. We all need a footwasher at our door step to clean off the tar. n/t

[KoKo]

84. Getting to the point that we need to find company selling "Tar Scrapers"

because we Dems have to scrape the Repug Media DOO off our shoes nightly.

[Acebass]

91. Don't forget the feathers...

[KoKo]

95. We can't use feathers anymore........BIRD FLU...don'tcha know? n/t

[Acebass]

117. Packing popcorn!...

gotta have something to do with it...

[DemonGoddess]

92. it's a smear tactic

yet again

[LittleClarkie]

94. Here, read this

http://mydd.com/story/2006/2/9/163540/9804

[JeffR]

103. Jeebus Tapdancing Christ

Is this thread still going?

[EFerrari]

104. Lol.

Immaturity?
:rofl:

[Rainscents]

105. Why don't you go to FEC web site and you'll see, NOT one Dem's

took Abramoff money! Receiving donations from Tribes is LEGAL!!! Get it??? Stop posting crap like this when this had been debunked over and over again! If Reid did anything illegal 6,7 10 years ago, do you think, GOP would had waited until now to trash him? This is Rove tactic and they want to get rid of him this Nov and hoping that, they could get GOP in. This is all about '06 election.

[cali]

110. I'm well aware that no dems took

any personal money from Abramoff, and after reading this thread, it's clear that I'm far better versed in the minutia of this business than most of the posters. I'll say it again; I have no illusions that dems are always clean. The information I'm disturbed about, came out TODAY. And yes dems are responding, but as far as I can see, it has yet to be thoroughly debunked. One more time: The tribes in question are not Nevada tribes. They never gave to Reid before Abramoff took them on as clients. Reid wrote letters on behalf of those tribes to executive branch. At least that's what's being reported. Now, I just heard Howard Dean say that this reporter is not trustworthy, so I find that comforting. None of this happened 6+ years ago. It happened within the last 3 years. How would the GOP even know about this? Not to mention that the GOP really are dirty re Abramoff. I hope Reid's clean. I hope all dems are clean. Yes, this is all about 2006, and appearances of conflicts or wrong doing can be potent and damaging.

Finally, don't tell me what to post or not post. As my ex was fond of saying: I'm from Vermont, I do what I want.

[ClassWarrior]

107. Lots of pols got LEGAL money from Jackoff's VICTIMS.

But Jackoff funneled those victims' STOLEN, LAUNDERED money ONLY to his GOP buddies.

NGU.

[Dr Fate]

108. Call me back when Reid is indicted or even investigated. n/t

n/t

[cali]

109. Appearances can be damaging. n/t

[Dr Fate]

118. Cali is a crook.

Appearances can be damaging.

[LynnTheDem]

111. Yer kidding, right???

Reid did not receive ONE PENNY from Abramoff.

Indians really are human beings. As such, they are allowed to donate their money to WHOMEVER they want.

And it isn't even a crime.

[EFerrari]

113. Please just hit me with a Wackomole hammer and be done with it.

I understand people having real questions. I don't understand having accusations in public and expecting no consequence.

[LynnTheDem]

114. To me it's such incredible racism, too.

"Indians gave Reid money...must be dirty & illegal!"

Like Native Americans don't have the right to donate funds to any bloody one they want to! Like Native Americans are the illegal connection here, rather than being the VICTIMS.

After I smack you with the Wackomole can you return the favor please?

[EFerrari]

116. You'll hafta give me a recovery period, but hey,

is anything we're asked to do much more weird?

Of course it's also racist. What did we expect?

These mofos will do anything, racisim being their specialty.

[FreedomAngel82]

112. And you're going by who's word?