What could have been - Howard Dean as President

[BushOut06]

Wasn't Howard Dean winning Democratic primaries up until his infamous scream at a pep rally? Personally I liked it, thought it showed a lot of enthusiasm - something usually missing in politics at the national level. However, the RWers played that scream soundbite to death, making him out to be some crazy nutjob.

Does anyone ever wonder what would have happened had that not happened? Perhaps Dean goes on to win the Democratic nomination. I think he could have easily trounced Bush in the main election, wouldn't have even been close.

[patrice]

1. It wasn't just "the scream".

The DLC had already been preparing the Kerry candidacy for quite some time and they couldn't/wouldn't turn on a dime.

[bahrbearian]

4. Yes the DLC monkey wrench.

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. Puh-leeze

"The DLC had been preparing the Kerry candidacy" ranks among the stupidest things I have ever read on DU. Kerry votes with the DLC maybe 10% of that time, if that. Your post is an outrageous lie.

PS - ever heard of Joe Lieberman? Ever heard of The New Republic? It's a magazine that supports the DLC wing of the Democratic party - and they endorsed Lieberman in 2004. They also hate Kerry's guts.

But sorry to spoil YET ANOTHER "OMG Kerry/The DLC/the DNC/Clinton/Gephardt/the media/Bush/PNAC/Israel/Satan took out Howard Dean!!!" whinefest. It's much easier, after all, to blame everyone BUT YOURSELF for your loss and pretend it was all one big giant conspiracy, isn't it?

[FreedomAngel82]

10. And Kerry hasn't been apart of the DLC since 2003 by the way

Go to c-span.org and type in John Kerry and look for him on "Road to the White House" from August 8th, 2003. This was when Dean was on "Time" and Kerry hadn't even announced officially he was running yet! DUH!

[patrice]

23. . . . . chill out.

[BushOut06]

7. Isn't that kind of funny how the political machines work?

It's almost as if each party has their own designated candidate, and the primaries are just a formality to go through. I think it's safe to say that the Democratic political machine has their sights set on Hillary Clinton, and will do everything it can to get her the nomination. Likewise, I think the GOPher machine has their eye on Condi Rice, they've been doing everything they can to artificially inflate her resume. They can talk about McCain all they want, but we all know the GOPher machine despises McCain and will not let him get anywhere near the nomination.

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. The problem with that reasoning per 2004

Is that Kerry was pretty much the pariah candidate until he won Iowa. EVERYONE had counted him out - you didn't hear "establishment Dems" talking him up, and the media completely ignored his candidacy. Dean was "controversial," so he got a lot of media attention, which was the only reason he ever became a nationally viable candidate. I had never heard of Howard Dean until in late 2003 he started appearing on the cover of Time and Newsweek. I suspect that is how most average Democrats heard about him. Unfortunately for Dean, such media attention was a double-edged sword - because of his penchant for, shall we say, "speaking his mind," he was extremely vulnerable to ridicule. The ill-advised scream was just the kind of thing the media were waiting on.

Dean's candidacy was both made and broken by the media.

[BushOut06]

12. So who would have been the "establishment" candidate in '04?

I see where you are coming from, and maybe it's because I like John Kerry, but I kinda thought he was the "establishment" candidate. Senior Democrat senator from Massachussetts, prior presidential candidate, etc.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. Where do you get prior presidential candidate?

He had never been a presidential candidate before. He's not the senior Democratic senator from Massachusetts either. Than would be Edward Kennedy.

[BushOut06]

19. He never ran for president before?

I don't mean as the Democratic nominee, but as a candidate in the primaries. Also, I should have clarified - he's one of the senior Democrat Senators, and he happens to be from Massachusetts.

[Crunchy Frog]

21. No, he never did.

I understand that Gore considered him as a running mate in 2000, and maybe he would have won more decisively had he gone with him instead of with Lieberman, but Kerry's never run in the primaries.

I believe the term Senior Democratic senator is used very specifically to refer to the longest time member of the Senate in a given state. It hardly seems fair that Kerry should always be referred to as the Junior senator considering how long he's been serving, but life's not fair I guess.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. And for proof of that try to find the documentary made by

Nancy Pelosi's daughter. It came out sometime in 2004 and in the video it shows how Dean was very popular and other canidates but Kerry was basically a nobody and very few people paid attention to him. When Dean was on "Time" Kerry hadn't even announced yet he was running officially. And if you go to c-span.org and look for the Iowa cacus dinner Kerry was a head of Dean (not too much but still a head). Isn't Iowa voice counting? :shrug:

[patrice]

22. Hillary could lead, if she would, by stepping up and talking about

the Invasion of Iraq, and "Seamless Garment" Pro-Life, anti-Capital Punishment, anti-Abortion, anti-Poverty, anti-Ignorance, Pro-Education leadership, that and don't be shy about this damned War!

People are looking for competent Honest, empowering, power-sharing leadership, Pro Education, Pro-Social Justice leadership.

[bahrbearian]

2. Actually , He lost Iowa, then came the Scream

Yeahaaaw for the Doctor.

[Loge23]

3. I agree - Dean was the best choice

Funny you should post this today. I was driving today and came to an exit on I-95 (Broward Blvd. southbound) in Fort Lauderdale. Pulled up to the light, homeless person nearby, and there was a "Dean for President" sticker to my left on a traffic switchbox.
I thought of how it could have been.
Dean had passion and was/is a real guy. Look what we have instead!

[HornBuckler]

5. Good thought

But until we get valid, unaltered, fair voting results it wouldn't matter if god himself ran agianst Bush.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. So why was Kerry a head of him at the Iowa Cacus dinner?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

9. It makes me sad too.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. No.

There hadn't been any primaries prior to the scream. The scream happened right after the results came in from the Iowa caucus, which was the very first contest in the country. Dean had been widely expected to win, or at least come in very strong. He instead came out at a disappointing 3rd place behind Kerry and Edwards.

My personal opinion is that the results of the Iowa caucus sealed things for him, even had there been no media hyping of the scream.

I don't think that it would have been easy for anyone to trounce Bush. I don't know whether Dean would have done better or worse than Kerry.

Everybody likes to think that their guy would have done better. I'm guilty of that myself, but in general, I tend to think that this line of speculation only serves to open old wounds and is generally counterproductive.

That's just my opinion though.

[BushOut06]

16. Huh - guess my memory is getting worse each passing year

I could have sworn that Dean had won a few primaries at the very beginning. Guess I was wrong - but then again, I've been wrong before on other issues.

Next you're going to tell me that we don't get French benefits!

[Crunchy Frog]

20. He was getting alot of media coverage

and was ahead in most of the polls. Some of the media even had him down as the nominee, and acted as if the upcoming primaries were only a formality. Anyone who wasn't paying close attention could have made the same mistake you did. I think it was mostly people who were strongly committed to a particular candidate who paid that much attention.

Now which French benefits are you wondering about?;)

[Joe Fields]

17. Howard made too many people nervous. Me included.

[killbotfactory]

18. He lost Iowa, but...

Having the "scream" be played 2000 times in a row didn't help in NH. I distinctly remember some pundit saying he came off like Hitler, although he "wasn't as evil as Hitler" during that time. All this because the crowd was screaming and he was trying to match their enthusiasm.

I really, really hate our media.

[patrice]

24. I always liked the scream too. It made him real - ordinary in a way,

kind of awkward cute.

I like nerds.