The violence over the cartoons is the Islamic Boston Tea Party

[Ian David]

Do we really think this would have happened like this if we hadn't been bombing the hell out of them for years?

Just as the American Revolutionary War wasn't really about a tax on tea, the current wave of violence isn't so much about the cartoon.

The cartoon is a symbolic rallying point that people can look to and understand to mean that The West is waging a war of contempt against Islam.

Our President and his neocon Christian death-cult have handed them this rallying point in their effort to trigger The War of the Apocalypse.

[tocqueville]

1. Thousands Pay Respects to Slain Priest

Fri Feb 10, 4:24 AM ET

ROME - Thousands of mourners filed past the coffin of an Italian priest shot to death in Turkey, allegedly by a Muslim teenager angered by the Prophet Muhammad drawings.

As many as 10,000 people paid their last respects Thursday to Rev. Andrea Santoro, whose body lay in the Rome church of Santi Fabiano e Venanzio where he once worked. His funeral was to be held Friday in Rome's main basilica, St. John Lateran.

Santoro, 60, was shot twice in the back Sunday while praying in his church on the Black Sea coast. Witnesses say the killer screamed "Allahu Akbar," Arabic for "God is great."

The shooting shocked Italians, coming amid widespread protests against the caricatures of Muhammad, the central figure in the Muslim faith.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_re_eu/italy_priest_killed;_ylt=AsnrtTMPS0O3stJtTl2zsntWbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

obviously nobody is reporting this, not even the European MSM, except the Italians

[EFerrari]

9. Oh yes. Innocents caught in the middle.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=e5c1521976359cb70365a4b1285acbd2&submit3=Enter+Site

[orange00m]

2. Bombed the hell out of them for years?

Don't you have that backwards? cough cough

The American Civil War started in 1860 and by and large was about slavery despite the revisionists attacks of this fact.

The Revolutionary War occured started in 1775 and was by and large about taxation without representation despite the revisionists attacks of this fact.

Neocon Christian death-cult? Let me guess; you listen(ed) to mike moran. That is his favorite description and complaints about it from Christians lost him his radio show.

Here is a challenge to you: Go to Iran, or any Islamic country, and stand on a corner and scream "DOWN with the NEOCON ISLAMIC DEATH CULT". I give you 20 minutes before you are dead. This is true now, it was true 5 years ago, and it was true 100 years ago. NOthing we have done has antagonized this religion more than their fear that Allah is not happy with them unless they are ruling the world by whatever means.

They cannot fathom that if this is what he truly wanted; he could blink his eye and it would be so.

[Ian David]

6. Welcome to DU and enjoy your stay!

[Oversea Visitor]

17. Haha

Well come to Malaysia
You still be alive
Most probably people confuse on what you shouting about.
But yes you get booted out for insulting religion.
Same if you shout Neocon Christians Death cult.
You still get you butt kick.

And please if you attack Christmas here you get your ass kick too by the goverment.

[400Years]

31. I guess you don't know jack shit about the last 100 years of history

Starting with the breakup of the Ottoman Empire on through today the west has been meddling in the Middle East constantly for the last 100 years.

[mondo joe]

52. The only reason blasphemy would get you killed in Iran but

not here is that the rest of us are keeping the Christian extremists reined in.

If left to their own devices they'd be just as violent as the islamic nuts.

[Karenina]

56. Just barely. And indeed they would be.

HOLY SHIT, MJ!!! This may be the first time you and I have agreed on ANYTHING! :wow::bounce::wow:

As for why the "American model" doesn't work in the ME...

Consider that there are no civic mechanisms to rein in the fundies in many Islamic nations. Consider that after being disenfranchised politically, largely at the hand of Western powers protecting their access to resources, in bed with corrupt regimes FOR A CENTURY, the mosques have become the POLITICAL refuge of the underclass. Consider the illiteracy rate. Consider the poverty and how the regimes (See: House of Saud and their capitulation to the Wahabbists to maintain their power) USE Islam to keep the proles poor, uneducated, cloistered and IN CHECK. Consider the successes of Iraq (under Saddam), Turkey and the former Yugoslavia. Consider the amazing progress made in Iran until your *dimwit targetted them and by all accounts from ex-pat natives I've heard, installed yet ANOTHER looney-tunes CIA asset...

PLEASE.JUST.CONSIDER

[rainy]

3. The cartoons are also raciest and I can't think what would happen

here if the NYT published a raciest cartoon which also depicted Jesus in a degrading way.

[megatherium]

7. People who criticize a religion for its intolerance are not racist.

The cartoons were offensive, but freedom of speech is meaningless if it only protect inoffensive speech -- the publishers of the cartoons were trying to establish the principle that minorities cannot squelch freedom of expression. A great deal of the (manufactured) outrage on display this month was due to the fact that Islamists were circulating, along with the relatively innocuous cartoons actually published by the Danes, several much nastier drawings.

[Ian David]

13. I agree on all of those points. Didn't know about the other cartoons. n/t

[EFerrari]

15. So tell me how a drawing that shows

a person of color wearing a bomb shaped turban is a comment on RELIGION?

And then explain to me why the right wing in Scandinavia felt so concerned about "freedom of speech" just as America needed a fig leaf for their new war.

I'm sorry. It doesn't pass the smell test.

[megatherium]

18. The "person of color" was meant to be the Prophet.

That's why it's a comment on religion. And Islam is a universal religion with adherents of all races and regions of the globe; the issue isn't race here.

[EFerrari]

19. Go look again. n/t

[megatherium]

21. I've looked again. I've been paying attention to the news.

All those angry demonstrators in various countries are shouting slogans and carrying banners defending their religion, Islam, not their race. I don't see what your problem is here, this is about freedom of expression and religion. Must you try to intimidate someone who disagrees with you by insinuating that he or she is racist?

[EFerrari]

23. "this is about freedom of expression and religion"

Oh, really? And I suppose it's just an accident that all those brown people are acting badly *just* when Bush wants to start another war?

:rofl:

Sorry, I don't drink kool aid.

[Karenina]

25. Context is EVERYTHING

COPENHAGEN, August 4, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – A Danish radio commentator has been charged with violating anti-racism laws for his anti-Muslim remarks in which he called for "exterminating Muslims" in Europe.
<snip>
A recent report by the International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights (IHF) also said that Muslim minorities across Europe have been experiencing growing distrust, hostility and discrimination since the 9/11 attacks.
Danish Muslims - estimated at 170,000 or around 3 per cent of Denmark's 5.4 million - sounded the alarms that much more restrictive steps would be taken by the government in future.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-08/04/article04.shtml

COPENHAGEN, April 15, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Denmark’s Queen Margrethe II claimed that Islam poses a global threat and urged government to show no tolerance toward the Muslim minority in the north European country, reported the Telegraph on Friday, April 15.
“We have to show our opposition to Islam and we have to, at times, run the risk of having unflattering labels placed on us because there are some things for which we should display no tolerance,” the queen said in an official biography published on Thursday, April 14.
http://islamonline.net/English/News/2005-04/15/article02.shtml


WASHINGTON, September 8 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) – In an article published in the Canadian newspaper the National Post, two Danish politicians said that they were offended by the way integration problems in Denmark were portrayed in an article written by authors Daniel Pipes and Lars Hedegaard.
<snip>
According to the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Pipes has throughout his career exhibited troubling bigotry toward Muslims and Islam. As early as 1983, even an otherwise positive Washington Post book review noted that Pipes displays "a disturbing hostility to contemporary Muslims...he professes respect for Muslims but is frequently contemptuous of them," CAIR said on their website.
Recently, Pipes questioned the origins of the Quran, Islam's revealed text, and questioned whether the Prophet Muhammad ever existed. According to Pipes, the night journey of the Prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem referred to in the Quran (17:1) never occurred.
Pipes also displays a racist's distaste for Muslim immigrants who "wish to import the customs of the Middle East and South Asia." (Los Angeles Times, 7/22/99) For Pipes, this sort of raw bigotry is nothing new.
In 1990, he said: "Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most." (National Review, 11/19/90).
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2002-09/08/article03.shtml

By BOUTHAINA SHAABAN
Oustside View Commentator
DAMASCUS, Syria, Feb. 6 (UPI)

Denmark has become the country heading the spear of hatred against Islam and Muslims. In the 1990s, the Danish Popular Party considered Muslims in Denmark -- 4 percent of the population -- a "troubling problem." After Sept. 11, other Danish parties started sharing the same concern, and talking against "Muslims in Denmark" became a tool in election campaigns. The media started focusing on emigrant problems and accused Muslims of "violence" and "extremism." Even the queen herself joined the choir and expressed worry over the problems that her "Muslim" subjects represented.

A Danish Popular Party candidate in Copenhagen, Luis Ferivrette described Danish Muslims as "cancerous disease in the Danish society." The Party's spokesperson, Martin Henriksen, said that "Islam, since its beginning, has been a terrorist movement," and he warned against allowing Danish Muslims candidacy to the parliament or city councils. Henriksen describes Danish Muslim converts as "moral criminals" and prides in the fact that "criticizing Islam is the official policy of (his) Party." Within this context, the cartoon contest organized by Yandposten came as a natural result.
http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20060206-022623-3828r

Research courtesy of DulceDecorum

[Leopolds Ghost]

55. Wow, this is important stuff

Anyone who's read the book "The Conquerors" by Michael Beschloss, about how Democrats and Republicans alike conspired to eliminate FDR's De-Nazification plan, with major American figures calling it a "Jewish plot", will know that anti-semitism is not dead in Europe. Let's not forget that both Muslims and Jews are Semitic and neither seem to be particularly welcome in Europe to this day. It's sad, because my great-grandparents came from Europe.

[megatherium]

30. I don't drink kool aid either, and I don't do conspiracy theories

either.

[EFerrari]

40. Right. Because conspiracies are so unlikely

with Bushco? They would never lie to get us into a war, out a CIA agent, seed the press or engage in domestic spying.

[megatherium]

44. I'm skeptical about this theory because the links are

weak -- the cartoons were first published months ago (no reaction) then they are circulated by Muslim activists along with several cartoons that were even nastier but which were not published by the Danes. Someone is doing the provoking here, but I'm not convinced that it's Bush and company. I think certain Islamists are indulging in a little incitement for their own purposes (although why, I'm not completely sure).

I can assure you, my skepticism about this theory has nothing to do with my trust for Bush and his people. That is to say, I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Certainly, I am totally opposed to the war program. We should get out of Iraq as soon as possible, and a war against Iran would be a catastrophe. We should spend the trillion dollar war budget on energy independence: I suspect relations with these countries would be a lot more amicable without a strategic resource in question.

[EFerrari]

51. We've seen them seed the U.S. and Iraqi media. They

used the Italian media (I think) to fake the Niger yellowcake docs. This is what Rove does.

It would be interesting, in view of what we know NOW about this tactic, to look at say, the British media in the run up to the war. To compare our presstitutes' output with theirs.

[AntiFascist]

63. What you should be looking at is the role played by the media....

they are the ones focusing on this and stirring up both sides. This is what is fanning the flames.

[The Straight Story]

61. How do we know what he looked like, no images allowed?

So the cartoonist used the best model he had IMHO to depict how he looked.

How would YOU depict him?

[CJCRANE]

22. "People who criticize a religion...are not racist".

OK, go tell that to Jewish people.

[megatherium]

32. You just distorted my words.

I said "criticize a religion for its intolerance." Islam as it is often practiced is intolerant -- for example, blasphemy laws punishable by death. And (this is important to me personally) judicial murder of homosexuals. Please visit the web site www.outrage.org.uk concerning this topic. (In particular: Outrage -> Religion->Islam)

And if hatred of Jewish people is a real concern of yours, please make note of the non-stop hatred of Jews encountered in Muslim countries and circles. E.g. Egyptian television recently ran a big miniseries dramatizing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[CJCRANE]

33. Criticism of specific instances and policies

I agree with, but wholesale demonization of a religion whether it be Jews or Muslims I disagree with.

A semitic caricature of Moses with a bomb on his head would be just as vile.

There is also anti-semitism in muslim countries as you say and I don't agree with that either, there should be limits and/pr criticism against that kind of freedom of speech too.

[megatherium]

39. You are right, wholesale demonization is wrong.

Especially when its purpose is to encourage war. I don't believe that Islam is inherently evil or wrong; people of good will understand that there is good in all religions (and in humanist secularism too). Indeed I have had Muslim friends (not unusual in academic circles, though where I teach now we don't happen to have Muslim faculty).

I recently read The Argumentative Indian, by Amyarta Sen, who drives home the point that the recent conflicts in India between Muslims and Hindus are unnecessary and have been propogated by Hindu fundamentalists for political purposes. Sen highlights the long history in India of amicable relations between Muslims and Hindus in a secular, diverse country. E.g. the father of the Indian atom bomb is a Muslim and now President of India.

[orange00m]

8. People would buy it, write letters against it, and not kill people. NT

[tocqueville]

14. have you seen the cartoons ?

explain in what way they are "racist" ?

besides there are hundreds of far more offensive Jesus cartoons circulating in Europe

nobody gives a fuck

separation of Church and State you know

[Karenina]

37. People who have never experienced racism

often have difficulty recognizing and acknowledging it, even when it's blatant. Please see my post #25 and ask yourself what kind of response in the Danish to the "strangers in their midst" these caricatures were designed to elicit.

[PassingThrough]

24. How is it racist? There are ALOT of white Muslims. Iraq is white and

so is alot of the Middle East.

[NoPasaran]

36. The closest the Times comes to raciest cartoons

Are the lingerie ads.

[alarimer]

47. That's just it though

They published these catoons but they refused to publish cartoons that were insulting to Christians. Somewhat of a double standard, I think. Personally I think the editor/publisher did this on purpose in order to foment some sort of unrest. I don't think they had any idea how big a deal it would be. At the same time, western countries mostly have a tradition of free press. Sure, some things will be published that will insult various sectors of the population (most of us if we are insulted simply write letters to the editor, etc- we don't demand they remove the offending item- although Doonesbury has been censored often) but if you live in a country with that tradition, you cannot be so thin-skinned as to expect the larger culture to cater to you. And most immigrants realize that and that's why most of them did not burn anything down. It is only the few that did so and they may have been influenced and incited by fundamentalist Muslim leaders.

At the same time, what purpose does it serve journalistically to publish something very inflammatory?

[mondo joe]

53. Islam is not a race. n/t

[Karenina]

54. Context is everything

See post #25

[Azathoth]

4. It's more like the inverse of the Boston Tea Party

The colonials rioted because they wanted freedom. The Muslim fundamentalists are rioting because they want to surpress freedom.

[Ian David]

10. They're rioting because The West has found one more way to attack them

Granted, they do want to suppress personal freedoms.

But they're also pissed-off about more than the cartoon.

The cartoon is a symbol of how we're waging a war against them.

[NoPasaran]

38. The cartoons are also a symbol of

Muslims who blow themselves up in order to spread terror. How awful :sarcasm: of us "Western racists" to object to that behavior.

[Ian David]

49. You are correct, but missing my point. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

58. Odd! I thot they were a symbol of Mohammed. You think Mhd is a terrorist?

I guess that's your "sarcastic" message for the world.

Besides, we all know how much we as Americans have been subjected to death and destruction from suicide bombs. We have a right to get up on a political soapbox about this evil, and this evil in particular, not other evils like racism, ethnic cleansing of Louisiana, criminally insane government, etc.

[cali]

5. I think you have a point

though I don't believe it's as simple as you make it out to be. Also you have a pretty significant error in your post.

Just as the American Civil War wasn't really about a tax on tea, the current wave of violence isn't so much about the cartoon.

You mean the Revolutionary War, not the Civil War. You probably want to correct that.

[orange00m]

11. I didn't have the heart to point that out to him except by innuendo. NT

[Ian David]

12. Thanks. I fixed my mistake.

I was in a hurry, and I'm late getting out the door.

No, the violence isn't really about the cartoon.

The cartoon has become their "Remember the Alamo" cry or perhaps...

I don't have time for a really good analogy, but I think you get the idea.

It's a symbolic rallying point that we have handed them to use as symbol of Western contempt of their religion and beliefs.

[MetaTrope]

16. The mullahs can't afford to spend millions of dollars on an ad agency

for a fabricated story on babies in incubators or somesuch...the cartoons are just inflammatory propaganda on a budget.

[JCMach1]

20. Sorry, but no... the fractures within the Islamic will be there

long after the cartoon business has blown over.

Remember the bombing that killed 22 Shia in Pakistan on Ashurah?


The long post-colonial nightmare will continue for most...

[T_Matamoro]

28. Post colonial?

What do you mean by Post colonial? The shia/Sunnah spilt happened 1300 years ago! The modernday borders where Shia and Sunnah mix have been that way since that time. This is not Africa where arbitrary borders were drawn up by white masters in Europe! In fact the Middle east Islamic world was one of the few places where Europe had NO colonies because of the Ottoman empire. The modern day borders have to do more with Tribal affilitations and old broken Califates than any imperialist interference.

[JCMach1]

35. The Ottomans were also an empire...

Most countries here have been independent for less than 50 years. The post-colonial mish-mash of borders and maldistribution of resources is a huge ongoing problem. Pan-Arabism was strangled in its cradle during the Cold War and was never given a chance bear any fruit... Imagine a world where there was an Arab version of the EU from Iraq to Morocco...?

Also, we have Europeans to thank for the spread of fundamentalism in the Muslim world. Fundamentalism was pushed by the various (largely) European powers as a substitute for the troublesome Sufis. As you might recall, Sufis had led the worst revolts against the europeans.

Fundamentalism in mainstream Muslim thought is part and parcel of the post-colonial legacy of the Middle-east...

[T_Matamoro]

46. could'nt be more wrong on that.

Like i said before most borders were agreed upon by theArabs themselves because of there tribalism rather than any interference from colonial powers. Second the Ottomans were MUSLIMS so how is that Europes fault? At best it was "other muslims" fault. As to Pan-arabism, well they tried that. Egypt, Syria and Jordan (U.A.R)all tried it but they themselves refused to go along with it. None of the regional powers wanted to lose any of the autonomy. If anything the creation of Isreal WOULD"VE given them a good reason to unite politically but they still did'nt. Not our fault. And finally Fundamentalism, There is only one people responsable for that, The Saudis! With the oil money they funded Whabbis up the wazoo to go and be "missionaries", not to pagans, but to other Mulims countries and try to bring them more in line with "pure" "Arabic" Islam. In the Muslims world, the Saudis are seen as the guardians and practitioners of the purest Islam so conversion was easy.

[T_Matamoro]

26. DEADLY SERIOUS QUERY.

Can I ask you something? Im new here so maybe I just to follow the reports that well. But I follow Geo-political news very closely, have since i was a wee lad in 1984. Also love reading about world history in books. I have to ask you reguarding your statement "Bombing the hell out of them for years" Where do you get this from?????????
could you gimmie a Timeline showing that the Middle east has been Bombed by US for Years????? I know a lot of countries there have had wars for a long time but they usually had nothing to do with us. And in a lot of the countries it was Islam Vs. Islam like the Iran Iraq war. Or Islam vs. Communism. I think Gulf war I was the first time WE EVER got involved in the ME personally (with large troops). Please dont cite me "proxy" examples like oh yeah we supplied so and so with weapons they attacked so we get blamed stuff, because Russia, China, Combloc, France etc all did the same thing of providing Arms to various countries and yet they get no blame. Also, notice the countires that I consider the most dangerous are the ones who have had no problems at all. For example Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Syria have all had relative peace from us (no bombing) for 50 years Yet i consider them to be the main culprits in all this trouble. In fact Syria has attacked, without provacation, Isreal at least 4 times and lebanon twice. So gimmie a timeline and a REAL reason.

[Ian David]

27. Don't have time to respond in detail, but...

There was Reagan's bombing of Quadafi based on faulty intelligence linking him to the German disco bombing... which of course triggered the Lockerbie bombing.

We've been bombing Iraq since the begining of Bush War I / "Desert Storm."

Enforcing the no-fly-zones throughout Bush I and Clinton administrations.

I should clarify, in case someone has questions: I do not condone the violence over the cartoon. I think it is terrible.

My point is just that it is a rallying tool, not the only reason for the violence.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CJCRANE]

34. What do you call "shock and awe"?

100,000 civilians slaughtered is hardly a firework display.

No one is denying that there are problems in arab countries but what you spouted is genocidal crap. America has done much more harm to muslim countries than they've ever done to you.

[T_Matamoro]

43. Genocidal crap?

you claim "what you said is Genocidal crap"??????? What in particular are you making reference to? I never said anything about "kill'em all" or wipe'em all out. I Have just finished reading Jared diamonds book "Collapse" in which he describes how over population leads to enviromental disaster and diminshing resources. I think the same thing that applied to his examples of Easter island, Haiti and Greenland are Exactly what is going on in the Middle east right now! If anyone is commiting Genocide it's the Muslims against themselves. Because they refuse to modernise their religious medeval outlook it is leading to all kinds of ecological and social problems. The fight for oil only exacerbates it. You also mention the Iraq war dead, well i admitted that iraq has a beef with us but again i state, what about all the other countries from indonesia to Morrocco? What is their excuse for hating America and Jews so much? And to compare this Cartoon rage with the boston tea party is just waay off base.

[CJCRANE]

48. The middle east is hardly over-populated

there are plenty of countries with much greater overpopulation problems.

If you have noticed, the people in the Occupied Territories are Muslims and Jerusalem happens to be one of their holy cities. Iraqis are also muslims. That's why there are muslims from other countries who don't like what they see there.

Just like Jewish people from outside Europe were still angry at the holocaust, even if they themselves weren't in Europe.

The reason that (some) muslims are angry is that the US backs Israel which has bombed thousands of Palestinians, many of them innocent women and children. The U.S. govt has also supported sanctions against Iraq which potentially killed 100's of 1000's and also "shock and awe" which killed 30-100,000 civilians.

[pitohui]

41. wasn't aware the danes and norwegians bombed anybody

sorry yr analogy is silly on the face of it

if someone really thinks muslims are so stupid that they don't know that denmark and usa are two different countries, i would question who is really the racist

i prefer to believe muslims are real grown-ups like the rest of us, they had a choice to act like grown-ups, most did, but a noisy minority prefers to act like 3 yr olds and i'm not going to pander to them by pretending otherwise

if you riot burn and kill over a damn cartoon, don't expect to gain anything but my contempt and disgust because your behavior has not earned anything except the contempt of reasonable people

[951-Riverside]

45. Excellent Points and I'd like to add

America is the one committing the most egregious crimes against muslims why aren't they protesting in this manor every time a fellow muslim is held without representation, killed without consequence, raped in these US prisons, etc.

Why are they pushing for less freedom for all and more censorship?
Why are they pushing and helping RW agenda?

[Leopolds Ghost]

62. Oh fer Chrissake. THE DANES ARE IN IRAQ AS WE SPEAK. n/t

[robbedvoter]

64. The COW - so kill all Danes - thems the culprits! Kill!Kill!Kill!

I can't believe the crap I read here!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[slackmaster]

42. I don't recall reading about anyone being killed in the BTP

:nuke:

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. How many people were killed in the Revolution? How bout English Civil War?

That started because a nobleman slashed a page on the cheek with his sword, causing riots that forced the king to leave London.

Perhaps you think the war was all about that proximate cause and had no underlying causes? And no, I have as much contempt for Cromwell as for the so-called "religious" fascists.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FormerRepublican]

57. Isn't the cartoon protests in ME countries just as much an interference...

...in a foreign country (Denmark) as we're guilty of? The cartoons were printed in Denmark, not Lebanon or Syria. Why does Lebanon, Syria, Iran, or any other country get to dictate what Denmark does?

:shrug:

Personally, I don't want someone else to dictate my religion or lack thereof. The latest iteration of which is the demand to the UN to write international law banning blasphemy. Well - what the heck is blasphemy? Can that even be defined?

[robbedvoter]

59. BTP was about independence not replacing democracy with fanaticism

In fact, considering that the colonies were born out of a desire to escape fanaticism, I'd say it's the
OPPOSITE

[katty]

60. absolutely