Next time there is an incident like the one at the gay bar

[Rocknrule]

the victims' families need to file a class action lawsuit against Rush, Coulter, and all the other hatemongers poisoning the "liberal media." We need to take actions to show these people that openly advocating murder of other Americans just for being political opponents is no different then terrorism. They can't be protected and held above the law just for being on the same side as the government anymore.

[ruggerson]

1. Not enough people give a shit

most of DU doesn't give a shit. Gays and lesbians are experiencing their own Cristalnacht right here in America and most liberals are more worried about Iraqis.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. I think you are very wrong. You diss me without knowing me.

[ruggerson]

13. I think I'm very right

Watch what happens to the next thread about yet another gay American kid getting murdered, as it sinks to the bottom of the page here. While a thread about the Bush crime family protecting oil in Saudi Arabia arouses furious passions and gets 500 responses. (not dismissing the importance of that either, but it's curious what a blind eye many (not all) liberals turn to the ongoing purge of the rights of gay Americans that is occurring right in front of their faces.)


on edit; typo

[AndyTiedye]

15. It is Not a Blind Eye, It is…

…one that is :cry:. It is not for lack of caring that I often do not comment on such threads, it is that I am usually at a loss for words.

[Rocknrule]

2. Actually let me rephraise that

Next time there is ANY hate crime committed by some rightwinger McVeigh wannabe against gays, liberals, Muslims, ANYONE, the families need to sue Coulter and the others.

[Cleita]

3. God yes!

Everytime they open their mouths with their bigoted, homophobic, racist, sexist remarks they should be sued. After all Randi Rhodes got sued for reading an interview that Janis Karpinsky had given to Truthout on the air, where she was critical of one of the corporate contractors there.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

4. You have to first provide evidence they advocated......

....murdering anyone who is gay. As bad as Coulter, Limpballs, Hannity etc are, I don't think they've ever said that.

Not only that, you have to prove this kid was somehow influenced by them personally. I somehow doubt he was tuning in to Rush or watching FAUX News everyday. He sounded like another fucked-up dumbass kid who thought Hitler was cool and became a Nazi poser.

Be careful when you push legal measures against those you disagree with. To me, it sounds like something the right would advocate.

[ruggerson]

6. Does this sound vaguely familiar to you?

This is just a very small sampling of the crap the religious rightwing puts out on a daily, hourly basis about gay Americans.

And you think this doesn't promote violence??

"...one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," Family Research Council publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Undercurrent of pedophilia in gay subculture
"There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture" - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html

Gays support pedophilia
"Prominent homosexual leaders and publications have voiced support for pedophilia, incest, sadomasochism, and even bestiality." - American Family Association, http://www.afa.net, Homosexuality in America: Exposing the Myths.

Gays want to have sex with boys
"This is ultimately about the protection of America's youth from such groups as NAMBLA and militant homosexuals who seek to lower the age of consensual sexual intercourse between homosexual men and young boys to the age of fourteen" - Charles Socarides, on the board of NARTH and the other top 'ex-gay' psychiatrist, from NARTH's Web site, http://www.narth.com/docs/1995papers/socarides.html

Gays seduce young boys
"Practicing sadistic sex and seducing young boys is not uncommon among homosexuals." - Reed Irvine, Accuracy in Media, Dec. 2, 1999.

Gays propagandize to children
"In fact, most mothers are more concerned with protecting their children from homosexual activists, who insist on their supposed 'right' to propagandize young schoolchildren." Jul 12, 98 - Americans for Truth About Homosexuality press release, organization run by Peter LaBarbera, who is also a Family Research Council employee.

Gays seduce children
"The seductions of the homosexual lobby are being brought to your children in your school, and that seduction is followed by destruction." - Steve Schwalm, Family Research Council, WHY SCHOOLS ARE TEACHING YOUR KIDS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY, May 14, 1998, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98i1hs.html

Gays want access to children
"Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," Family Research Council publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Gays want to steal innocence from children
"There are those in our school systems that say the homosexual has every right to influence our children. Why, let them steal the innocence of our children?" - Paul Volle, Chairman, Christian Coalition of Maine, "The Gay Agenda,"

"what are considered unnatural sex acts, sex between members of the same sex." - 700 Club, 12-24-93 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

" attraction to unnatural acts" - Paul Volle, Chairman, Christian Coalition of Maine, "The Gay Agenda,"

"homosexuality cannot be natural" - American Family Association, http://www.afa.net, Homosexuality in America: Exposing the Myths.

"the many sexually transmitted diseases linked to unnatural homosexual practices" - 10-8-98, news release from Americans for the Truth About Homosexuality, quoting Peter LaBarbera, who is the organization's head and also an employee at the Family Research Council, http://www.americansfortruth.com/Ncod2808.html

"Abe Lincoln would have regarded homosexual conduct as sinful and unnatural." - news release, Aug 13, 98 - Americans for the Truth About Homosexuality, run by Peter LaBarbera, http://www.americansfortruth.com/LincolnZ.html

"Chief among those lies is the claim that homosexuality is a healthy, natural and fixed 'identity' - as opposed to a harmful, immoral and changeable behavior." - Americans for the Truth About Homosexuality, run by Peter LaBarbera, http://www.americansfortruth.com

"It is abundantly clear that homosexual behavior is unnatural" - Claremont Institute, http://www.claremont.org/pubs/miah.htm


"what a perversion of God's ideal homosexuality is." - Family Research Council's CultureFacts, http://www.frc.org/culture/cu99f4.html

"To throw out morality is to bring in every perversion: Adultery; Homosexuality; Exhibitionism, Incest, Prostitution, Pedophilia, Bestiality, Sadism, Masochism, and Necrophilia." -"The Gay Agenda", published by Paul Volle, Chairman, Christian Coalition of Maine,

"WBC will picket his memorial service, using the occasion to warn the living that the sodomite lifestyle guarantees Hell. That the Kansas City Star Fag Rag writing tributes, and his fellow perverts dancing and singing in his honor, will not buy one drop of water to cool Leni's tongue where he likely now is." - Religious right Westboro Baptist Church press release, on the death of UMKC dancer Leni Wylliams.

At different parties, I would say, "This is all you guys talk about." Every joke was somehow sexual. Every movement was somehow sexual. There was nothing that was ever talked about that didn't have to do with sex. And I said, "What is wrong with you that you can't think about anything else?" "What else is there?" was invariably the response. Always. It would concern me."- AFTAH Web site interview with Family Research Council's Yvette Cantu, http://www.americansfortruth.org/ycc_interview.htm

Michael Johnston, head of Kerusso Ministries (an "ex-gay" conversion center): "You know, really, when you think about it -- let me just be blunt here -- when an individual 'comes out' and proclaims their homosexuality, really, what they are doing is standing up and saying, 'I'm a sexual deviant, and I'm proud of it.' " - Oct 16, 96 - Family Research Council Web site, http://www.frc.org/net/st96j3.html

3) Gays are a pathology
"The practices of those people is appalling. It is a pathology" - Pat Robertson, 700 Club, 6-6-88 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"anal intercourse, sado-masochism, sexual promiscuity, and substance abuse. These pathologies are an integral part of the homosexual lifestyle"

"It is ....just like alcohol...or sex addiction...or kleptomaniacs." - Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott, Associated Press,


"a lifestyle that just a few years ago was criminal in our country." - - American Family Association ACTION ALERT via email,


"it is estimated that approximately 80% of pedophilic victims are boys who have been molested by adult males." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," Family Research Council publication,

"They commit over 33% of the sex acts with children. Of the pupil molestations, homosexual teachers commit as many as 80% of those acts." - Paul Volle, Chairman, Christian Coalition of Maine, "The Gay Agenda,"


"Although homosexuals account for less than two percent of the population, they constitute about a third of child molesters." - Family Research Council, "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys,"

"Lesbians and homosexual men are 19 times and 14 times more likely, respectively, to have had syphilis than heterosexual men and women" - NARTH's Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D. (a top psychologist of the "ex-gay" movement), the footnote reads: "P. Cameron, K. Proctor, and W. Coburn, 'Sexual Orientation and Sexually Transmitted Disease,' Nebraska Medical Journal, Vol. 70 No. 8, August 1985, pp. 292-299."


"The disgusting details of the homosexual lifestyle explain why so many diseases are present in the homosexual community." - American Family Association

"the many sexually transmitted diseases linked to unnatural homosexual practices" -10-8-98, news release from Americans for the Truth About Homosexuality, quoting Peter LaBarbera, who is the organization's head and also an employee at the Family Research Council,

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

9. A couple things......

....first of all, many of these quotes are from the far, FAR right. I say you'd have a strong case against the guy (and I forget his name) who led the protests against Matt Sheppard's funeral, because I do believe he's made statements advocating killing gays. I was talking about OP's references to Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. who are far more subtle than that.

Secondly, I'm no lawyer, but you are going to have to show direct quotes from anyone you are suing where they advocate actually murdering people. Most of the quotes you attribute are statistics. I have no idea where they get those statistics from, but it seems to me your going to have to get into a protracted debate where those numbers come from, then prove that they are nothing more than malicious concotions intended to inflame, and then find me a case where someone after reading these stats went out and killed someone because of it, or even pushed them to actively hate gay people.

The problem I think you are going to find is the yahoos who killed Matt Sheppard and the kid who shot up the bar are just a bunch of garden variety bigots who don't need the Family Research Council or the America Family Association to tell them they hate gay people. I don't disagree about making these groups pay for their inflammatory statements. But I don't think the law makes it that simple. How many successful class action suits have there been against the Klan? It took the Southern Poverty Law Center years to get anything on them, and they were actually burning down churches, houses, terrorizing blacks, etc.

Maybe a lawyer could pop in here, and give us a rundown on how it would be possible?

(And I'm not even going to imagine the MSM and how they would handle this. I'm betting tons of time granted to the wackos screaming how the "Queers are out to get us and want to end free speech.")

[ruggerson]

12. The American Family Association, Focus on the Family,

the Christian Coalition, The Family Research Council, etc are institutionally in control of the Republican party. They control domestic policy and Rove and Bush kowtow to whatever it is they want, because they are the margin of victory that put Bush in the Whitehouse and they are the committed, activist foot soldiers of the party.

They are not the "far, FAR right" of the Republican party. They are the mainstream of the Republican party. They CONTROL the Republican party.

[converted_democrat]

17. I'm not sure if you've noticed this or not, but the far far right are in

control of the repug party right now..

[Hippo_Tron]

18. My favorite thing about these "facts" is that there are no citations...

Or even examples. These assholes are just making it up as they go along.

[ruggerson]

7. And then there is this:

"At the Conservative Political Action Conference, Cameron announced to the attendees, 'Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals.' According to an interview with former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, Cameron was recommending the extermination option as early as 1983." - Mark E. Pietrzyk, News-Telegraph, March 10, 1995


and this:

"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death (Romans 1:32)," Rev. Fred Phelps quoted by State Press (Arizona State University),

[Rocknrule]

8. Is this for real???????????

They really are Nazis

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

10. Fred Phelps is who I was thinking of.......

....that statement is what I'm looking for. Now find me someone who read or heard that and then committed the crime and I'd say you have the case.

[Erika]

14. Why would anyone cast a stone against gays?

They wouldn't unless they felt superior. That is against Christ's teachings.

I find that the right wing are getting more desperate each day to justify their materialistic and bigoted existance. Interesting.

[Rocknrule]

5. In some ways

this is like several cases in which families of school shooting victims have tried to sue movie and videogame creators on the grounds that they allegedly inspired the killings. The suits failed of course, because they represented a direct attack on the principles of free speech and personal responsibility. However, making a product for entertainment purposes that has never been proven to cause violence is totally different from actively telling people to go out and kill those they disagree with.

[Rocknrule]

16. Gay bar incident = Krystalnacht