Democrats who I believe would open the books FOR the American people.

[blm]

And I mean the books that the American people NEED to see to understand how corrupt the Bush family and their cronies have been over the last 40 years.

Not about my personal favorites, because if Kerry doesn't run in 08, I lean towards supporting Wes Clark, but suspect that Clinton could convince him to not open the books completely. It's about WHO would most likely WORK ACTIVELY to open the books should the opportunity arise.

Kerry

Kucinich

Waxman

Waters

Tubbs-Jones

McKinney

Slaughter

Hinchey

Durbin

Boxer

Conyers

Not certain, but can't exclude - Feingold and Edwards.

Who are the Dems YOU trust to open the books?

[Selatius]

1. Actually, I would say everybody in politics should "open up their books"

You need to see every single dollar moving in and out of the political establishment be it with the right or the left. An open government is ultimately more accountable to the people than one that throws up brick walls and barb wire to imprison relevant information from the people.

[DarkmoonIkonoklast]

37. That SHOULD be a pre-requisite...

... I don't support anyone who won't, and I prefer it be their own choice... "because it's right!"

[Mass]

2. Conyers + those you list above.

Ed Markey.

[Dunvegan]

3. Conyers...he'd not only open the books...

...He'd open a "National Library of Corruption" for them in Washington D.C.

Al Gore would open the books, also, I think.

[blm]

6. I wanted to add Gore. He didn't fight to open them as VP and was not

helpful at all on IranContra, BCCI, and CIA drugrunning.

He may be ready to do it now, but would have to be listed as uncertain because he hasn't said anything specific to past documents that he MUST know are crucial.

[Crazy Dave]

4. I would put Edwards at the top of the list.

He's an attorney and not really a career Washington, DC insider in my opinion.

An Edwards/Clark team is the winning ticket in my opinion.

[blm]

5. The thread is not about winning tix in 08 - it's about WHO are the

corruption fighters who are MOST LIKELY to open the books that most politicians and lawmakers would keep closed.

[Crazy Dave]

7. Self delete

I was going to say Dick Gephardt but he's out of Washington now.

[blm]

9. I like Gep but never heard of him pushing to open the books.

I could be wrong and just never heard it was a priority for him.

[Crazy Dave]

11. He came to mind because...

..during the 2004 elections it was disclosed that he was the only candidate, on either side, that still carried personal debts.

[FlemingsGhost]

8. Trusting a politician.

Big mistake.

[blm]

10. Big mistake UNLESS they have records proving they support open government.

Big mistake to distrust EVERYONE.

[sandnsea]

12. DeFazio

Blumenaur from Oregon too, likely. But definitely DeFazio should be on that list, he's kind of a behind the scenes leader in the Progressive Caucus.

[blm]

13. Good call - I forgot about him, but am familiar with his positions.

/

[The2ndWheel]

14. Just far too obsessed

with Bush around here. It would be great if it was just Jeb, Neil, W, HW, Prescott, Sam, whoever. It's not just one family.

Open the books. Fat damn chance.

[blm]

15. Can you name anyone linked to real govt. corruption of the last 40yrs that

isn't a Bush or a profiteering crony of a Bush?

[sandnsea]

25. Goes back way beyond 40 years

I know you know that, just sayin'.

[blm]

28. Sure. But, it's the last 40 that people can connect most easily to what is

happening today.

[Little Star]

16. Edwards. He has

The nuts and the ability to educate the masses. This man is the real deal. He only needs the opportunity and he will lead this country down the right path. His heart is good and he is strong.

[blm]

17. Why do you believe he is the only one who would open the books?

Can you compare the records to make your point.

[Greyhound]

18. Not likely, no matter who gets in. Way too many deals, on both

sides of the isle, that they would, and probably have, killed to keep secret.

[blm]

20. Well, I am already well aware the Clinton people refused to open the books

but am also well aware that Kerry came down on the side of OPENING the books and also said shortly after 9-11 that had BCCI been followed up on, including the legislation he wanted that sprang from that case, it could have prevented 9-11.

I think Gary Webb was counting on Kerry taking office in 2005 because he KNEW Kerry would open the books HE needed opened.

[Greyhound]

31. I think if Kerry, or anybody for that matter, that tried to really 'open

the books' and expose what goes on in Washington and the deals they make against our interests to benefit their friends, supporters, families, etc. you could measure their life expectancy with a stopwatch.

[blm]

32. He already went through the DC ostracization process BEFORE the internet -

now, there are just so many more informed people who would give him backup he never had in his previous battles. I think he'd be as strong as we are, which puts a huge burden on us to to show our mettle as citizens.

[robbedvoter]

19. Wes Clark opened his own books during the campaign. So clean,

the press ignored reporting this fact.
He's the only one I'd trust.

[blm]

21. It's ALL the books - even the ones implicating Stephens in BCCI that

concern me. I hope Clark WOULD open them all, but I can't say with any certainty that he would, although I trust him more than most.

[robbedvoter]

30. I got that. Personal example is more convincing to me than words

It was an act of courage during a campaign, why doubt his integrity if he should win? (I only dout the rigged process that won't allow a win to register)

[cali]

22. Leahy and Sanders

Leahy got kicked off the Intelligence Committee for divulging one of Reagan's more nefarious plots to the press. To this day, he's attacked by repubs for this. I thought it was a brave and patriotic thing to do then. I still do. Sanders is a truth teller and he doesn't back down.

[blm]

23. I agree on Sanders - not quite certain about Leahy, but can't rule him out

either. I'm going to check out a few more of his positions, though, because I do respect him.

[cali]

26. You should check out his record.

It's admirable. From his work on Iran-Contra to his long battle against land mines, Leahy's record is both progressive and open. There's a reason he's so beloved in liberal circles here at home.

[blm]

29. I absolutely will.

Didn't see his name much in IranContra, but, then, those senior Dems who took control of it after Kerry uncovered it, were kinda pushing aside the sincere investigative minds in favor of their own showmanship.

[Adelante]

24. Wes Clark would open the books

You give Clinton too much power over Clark, for one thing. Clinton wanted Clark to chair the DNC and Clark said no. He's his own person.

Open government is something he has pushed ever since 2003. He talks about it all the time, including last week.

First, we've got to set things right at home. Protecting our Constitution comes first. Country before Party. Congress must fulfill its duties to the American people, not rollover for favors from the Executive branch. We need a full, in-depth, bipartisan investigation of the Administration's bypassing of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.


Congress needs to show resolve that the laws it passes do bind the executive branch, whether in wiretapping, humane treatment of prisoners, or the freedom of information act. Moreover, it is time for a special prosecutor, independent of the Department of Justice, to be empowered to investigate the Abramoff scandal, and pursue the leads all the way through Congress and up to the highest office in the land, if necessary. Get it out and get it over.

That may not be the books of the past 40 years, but who on your list has said word one about opening the books for the past 40 years? So if the question is who do I trust to open the books, I say I trust Wesley Clark.

I would certainly trust John Kerry, if he would only do it, but before he opens the books for the past 40 years, I would like to see him investigating the voting system in this country. I was disappointed when Gore didn't pursue it past 2000 and in time for 2004, and I am disappointed that Kerry is not pursuing it in time for 2008. Especially Kerry, because I believe he has the brains, talent and proven experience, and I trust him to do it. If we could trust the election returns as much as I trust John Kerry, we'd probably be in a much better position, that is in power, to get the books of the last 40 years opened.

[blm]

27. I'm just not sure Clark would do it BECAUSE it could hurt Clinton, too.

And I do believe Clark would run HIS administration with openness, I'm just not convinced he'd open the books on others. Not yet, anyway. Reading Clinton's book and how he dismisses the investigations into BushInc just sickened me. And he doesn't mention ONE WORD about BCCI - even though it was all those bad news stories on Bush's WH re IranContra and BCCI in his first term that helped firm up a distrust in Bush for a second term and helped Clinton win.

I am hoping, too, that Kerry takes on the voting machine issue. And if he does, I really hope that ALL the folks we trust and admire stand right up there with him - because it will take a show of force at that point. One HELLUVA show of force.

[incapsulated]

36. He isn't working for Clinton, anymore

Just because he did, and has admiration for him, doesn't make him indebted to him. I believe in the man's integrity and that he would put the country before any political history with Clinton.

[blm]

47. I didn't say that he is still working for Clinton - I very specifically

said that he might not want to hurt Clinton by opening up ALL the books that need openning.

I believe that Clark, as president, would keep a transparent administration and open books - I just am not there, yet, in believing he would allow ALL the books open that could hurt alot of people, not just Clinton.

[dysfunctional press]

33. Kerry? JOHN Kerry?...mr. complicity?

not a chance. (and he already had his)

[blm]

34. Then you would have no problem naming ONE lawmaker who has investigated

and exposed more government corruption than John Kerry has.

Name them. You can extend it to the last 40 years, even. We'll be anxious to see your answer.

[dysfunctional press]

35. i never said that he didn't-

just that he had his shot at the big chair, ran an even crappier campaign than al gore, and he wussed out when push came to shove over ohio- and THAT'S the more important track record when considering a candidate for '08.

[blm]

39. You called him Mr. Complicity - an allusion to collusion that couldn't be

farther from the truth.

And please name the Democrat who has overcome this RW controlled corporate media of the last 10yrs. Because the silver-throated Clinton was impeached, Gore was defined as a liar, Kerry as aloof, crazy Dean screamed, Murtha wants to surrender, etcetera.....

Target the GOP control of media and voting machines and stop blaming good Democrats.

[dysfunctional press]

41. kerry was complicit in bush's second electoral theft-

he's complicit in the war on iraq,

he's a worthless, pompous fuck- and i'll NEVER waste another vote on him.
and that goes double for hillary.

[blm]

46. If Kerry's worthless to this country then you must not have ANYONE on your

list who is worthy, since there isn't a lawmaker in office who has effected this nation's actual governmental history more positively than Kerry has over the last 35 yrs.

[dysfunctional press]

48. you're entitled to your opinion, as am i-

kerry comes across as pompous and insincere, and his diction, especially, is very off-putting to the average person...he may feel that he is being an eloquent wordsmith- but he just seems like a self-important windbag.

if he's done so many positive things for the country as a senator, then that's what he should remain-
historically, u.s. senators have a pretty dismal record as presidential candidates.

[blm]

49. Let's not be thinkers, let's be followers. You follow media bull...I can't

take that shit seriously.

[dysfunctional press]

51. the media doesn't put in the words that come droning out of kerry's mouth

that's all him.
he seems to feel that he's 'entitled' to the presidency...i don't.

[politicasista]

52. Who do you think is worth the presidency? What have you done for 2006?

You are aware that you are playing right into the hands of Bush, Cheney, Roveboy and the corporate media by personally attacking Democrats.

[dysfunctional press]

60. presidential elections are over 2 years away-

(i posted this earlier, further down- but i had intended it as a response to your post...i don't know how i screwed it up)

nd just because someone has a "D" after their name SHOULD NOT make them immune to criticism...that's the way the "R's" play the game, and the way that incompetents get through- blind allegiance on the part of the sheeple.

sheesh.

as far as who is worthy of the presidency- that's something i won't be considering all that much until late 2007/2008.

what have i done for 2006?

well- what am i supposed to have done...? and what have you done..."for 2006"?

i'm an election judge, when the time comes...and in the past i've worked(volunteered) answering phones in campaign offices, although this time around i don't think i'll be doing that...unless rahm emmanuel gets a primary challenger that i can support.

[blm]

53. My ears certainly don't hear what yours do - funny how your ears hear what

the RW media spin happens to be.

I hear a man who has a natural elegance to his tone. Too bad the media has dumbed down the country to the point that elegant speaking is a trait to be mocked.

[dysfunctional press]

55. so the RW media spinners write kerry's speeches?

yikes.

[blm]

57. No, they write YOUR POSTS ABOUT KERRY.

.

[dysfunctional press]

59. sheesh...

there are none so blind as those who will not see.

pity, really...

[blm]

40. You called him Mr. Complicity - an allusion to collusion that couldn't be

farther from the truth.

And please name the Democrat who has overcome this RW controlled corporate media of the last 10yrs. Because the silver-throated Clinton was impeached, Gore was defined as a liar, Kerry as aloof, crazy Dean screamed, Murtha wants to surrender, etcetera.....

Target the GOP control of media and voting machines and stop blaming good Democrats.

[dysfunctional press]

42. but kerry isn't a "good" democrat in my book.

he voted for the war in iraq.

[blm]

44. He voted for a resolution that would've prevented war if its guidelines

were implemented honestly.

Blame the IWR instead of Bush for VIOLATING the IWR and you let Bush off the hook.

I question the comprehension of those who claim voting for the IWR is a vote for war.

This thread was also about which Dems would open the books that need opening from the last 40yrs. You never answered that question, and instead chose to attack Kerry who has the best record of any Dem for working to get information declassified and a longtime advocate of open government.

[dysfunctional press]

50. the iraqi war resolution was WRONG.

and i won't let kerry off the hook for it, either.

the reason i singled kerry out of 'the list' is because i don't want him as my preident, and don't feel that he desrves another chance at the big chair, considering how his campaign was conducted, and his spinelessness re: the ohio voting fraud.

if he's been such a champion in the senate, then let him stay there to continue his good work.

[blm]

56. So you decided to NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION POSTED so you could

vent about something else.

Try answering posts straight some time. There are other threads you could vent on about 2008.

[dysfunctional press]

58. presidential elections are over 2 years away-

:eyes:

and just because someone has a "D" after their name SHOULD NOT make them immune to criticism...that's the way the "R's" play the game, and the way that incompetents get through- blind allegiance on the part of the sheeple.

sheesh.

as far as who is worthy of the presidency- that's something i won't be considering all that much until late 2007/2008.

what have i done for 2006?

well- what am i supposed to have done...? and what have you done..."for 2006"?

i'm an election judge, when the time comes...and in the past i've worked(volunteered) answering phones in campaign offices, although this time around i don't think i'll be doing that...unless rahm emmanuel gets a primary challenger that i can support.

[dysfunctional press]

61. in answer TO THE QUESTION POSTED-

durbin...to an extent.

but
FEINGOLD, Definitely...

and Kerry DEFINITELY NOT.
anyone with DLC affiliation- DEFINITELY NOT.

as far as track records go- Kerry's is longer, because he's been there longer- give durbin and feingold a chance, and see where they are when they have as many years in at it as kerry.

[politicasista]

62. Good, you should run for president then

Since you slam Gore and personally attack Kerry, thinking that by trashing other democrats and letting Bush off the hook for the IWR, it will help ANY democrat running for office.

If you think any Democratic Nominee, whether its a preferred candidate or someone else won't be smeared, think again. They did it to Gore, Dean, Kerry, Murtha, and they will do the same to Feingold or anyone running for office.

Oh and FYI: I am working on getting involved in Congressmen Ford's (Rep, D-TN) run for the US Senate. I find that more productive rather than complaining about a leading Democrat because of what happened in the past.

It's pretty odd that you are letting Bush, and other Democrats that voted for the IWR off the hook, but instead attacking a one of the leading Democrats that is fighting for "liberal" principals more than any of our other representatives. THIS IS BUSH'S WAR PERIOD.


Anymore Rovian talking points?

[blm]

64. Feingold didn't support Kerry on CIA drugrunning or the recent DSM letter

of inquiry that he refused to sign. (The CIA drugrunning was an issue that many senators avoided in the mid90s - Kerry didn't)

But, he did kinda back up Kerry and Wellstone on public financing of campaign bill that they wrote, but then went with McCain-Feingold minimal reform bill.

[LittleClarkie]

38. What do you mean, exactly?

Please tell me that your thinking doesn't include anything to do with Skulls and Bones.

Complicity in what exactly? Spell it out.

[dysfunctional press]

43. complicit in bush's second electoral theft-

and complicit in an illegal war in iraq...

to name two.

[Marie26]

45. Tim Ryan & the "30-somethings"

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz & Kendrick Meeks are the other members of the group (I think). They have almost zero power in Congress, but they held evening sessions of the "30-something Democrats" & used C-Span to try to expose some of the corruption & misleading statements of the Republicans. It's not the NY Times front page, but it's better than nothing. I don't doubt they'd try to "open the books" on this Administration if they could - they're already trying.

[Faygo Kid]

54. Carl Levin. Never a whiff of scandal, and nothing to lose now.

Carl Levin is too mild mannered, but his credibility and integrity are there. Also, what a sex symbol, eh?

[cally]

63. Interesting thread--Here's my list

Gore (I think he learned his lesson. He no longer wants to protect anyone but instead he wants to fight for us)

Kerry

Edwards--(I think he's a man of great integrity. He's someone who is not tied to the powerful.)

Clark, maybe--(I think he will do anything that he thinks is in the best interest for the country. If he's convinced that it would destabilize the country or put the troops at risk, then he wouldn't disclose. He is a man who is used to keeping secrets so I'm not sure he would feel it's his duty to disclose the misdeeds of previous admins. He would be absolutely open in his own admin.)

Conyers==I hope he becomes chairman of the Judiciary.

Waters, Tubbs-Jones, Slaughter, Durbin, and Leahy.

Leahy and Durbin have a long history of fighting the good fight.