We Need A Dark Horse Unknown In '08

[ruggerson]

This is especially true if we take back one or both houses of Congress in '06. Americans will be suffering from major Bush fatigue by then, but if we control Congress, they will be less likely to want both ends of Pennsylvania Ave to be controlled by the Democrats.

In addition, our crop of "knowns" is notoriously light in the charisma department. Say what you will, but Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Biden, Clark, Bayh, etc. do not have the down home charm needed to sweep America off its feet.

The country treats presidential elections very differently from elections for governor, senator or congressman. We, as a whole, do not vote for the smartest, or the most competent, or the one with the best comprehensive plan.

We vote for the man (or woman) who makes us feel better about ourselves, who touches something inside of us; we vote for the candidate we LIKE better. The one with the twinkle in his eye and the charm in his voice.

We have a number of lesser known Governors who would fit this bill. And, yes, they could even defeat John McCain.

But if we go with our retreads yet again, we will find ourselves on the outside looking in at yet another Republican inauguration.

[ClassWarrior]

1. Feingold.

But let's focus on 2006 first.

NGU.

[ruggerson]

3. I love Feingold

but I think he comes across as dour, dull and humourless. That's how he strikes me on television.

[Jackpine Radical]

12. If you have that impression, you must have a pretty small sample

of his public performance and persona from which to draw an opinion.

[ruggerson]

14. I've watched him a lot

and trust me, I would be overjoyed to revise my opinion of his charismatic abilities, because I think he's wonderful. But I don't see him pulling off the twinkle in the eye optimism needed to set middle America on fire.

[ClassWarrior]

15. Stay tuned. He's a downright charming guy.

I'm not sure if any of his Senate TV commercials are online, but that'd be a great place to start.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Here's the archive of his TV commercials...

http://www.russfeingold.org/multimedia.php

The concepts are the work of a brilliant Wisconsin ad agency, but Russ' charm - and the guts to do cutting-edge ads - shine through.

NGU.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. He has appeared at least twice

on "Road to the White House" so far this year. Try to find those. He's a pretty good speaker and interacts well with people. They did the same thing to Kerry and Gore. "Oh he's so boring!" when it's the complete opposite. :eyes:

[PBass]

4. I think Wes Clark has charisma

But we have a major election facing us in little more than 6 months from now (November).

[Clark2008]

2. Clark has downhome charm.

Geesch. He grew up 'downhome.'

You just haven't seen him live.

[ruggerson]

6. You and other Clarkies are really fooling yourselves

and I understand why. You love the guy, rightly so, and you think that only someone with national security credentials can take back the WH post 9/11.

I think you're mistaken on count 2, and I think you have some stars in your eyes as to Clark's charisma factor. He may be right as rain on almost every issue we can count, but he does not set political hearts on fire.

[NCarolinawoman]

22. Did you hear Clark's speech at the Dem '04 Convention?

Charisma is not the be all and end all; but General Clark knows how to get them "off their feet". He has a passion for what he believes in and this comes through.

[ruggerson]

24. Yep, I did

and I disagree. Charisma and that indefinable quality of charm and likability ARE the be all and end all as far as Presidential campaigns are concerned.

Voters may pretend to care where the candidates stand on the issues, or they may even think they care where the candidates stand on the issues, but as long as the candidate is not perceived as being way out on the fringe, voters vote for whom they like. Whom they feel GOOD about.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. My only objection is

he doesn't have political experience. He should try something else like governorship or something.

[saltpoint]

5. I've wondered about this, too, ruggerson. It's a good point.

What about Bill Moyers?

He's intelligent, extremely good with language, a Texan, a Baptist minister, a progressive, and unthreatening-looking.

I think he would cause the GOP considerable problems in swing states and he'd chew up absolutely anybody in the debates.

[Warpy]

7. Schweitzer

He's the guy who ran as an economic populist and won an easy and sizeable victory in one of the most GOP states in this country, Montana. He's very plain spoken, which will have the old maids in pants inside the DC beltway in a tizzy, but he knows what it takes to get elected in "red" states. He's largely unknown outside the west, which makes him a dark horse. He's a governor, which makes him more suitable for the job than anyone from Congress. And I suspect from watching him over the past year that he'd tell the DLC handlers to kiss his ass goodbye and go back to their lobbying jobs.

You're right, if we get another jellyfish who runs on a DLC platform, we'll be stuck with another GOP administraton. They might not even have to cheat to get in this time.

The down side is that he hasn't been on the job long enough for a solid evaluation of his performance as an executive. However, considering what we now have squatting illegally in the White House, that shouldn't be a problem at all.

Edited for too much Typoese

[ruggerson]

9. I think Schweitzer may be the guy too

Or someone like him.

And I don't think Schweitzer's length of time in office is a drawback at all. I think it's a major plus.

Carter was a one term governor and W was essentially a one and a half term governor.

And Schweitzer has the "IT" factor in spades. Charming, smart, gregarious, true blue, authentic rancher.

And he can tip all the red mountain states.

[napi21]

21. I already like the was Schweitzer thinks! After your post, I read

a few articles on line about him.

This is the best one I found. Partly because I like David Sarota and I trust his writing, but mostly because he describes Schweitzer's personality! He's a bit like Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, and Bill Clinton combined.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0412.sirota.html

Read it if you have a chance. This Gov. knows how to hit the opposition where it hurts, and that's exactly what we need on the national scene.

Now, would a guy like that EVER want to leave his beloved State of Montana? I don't know. For damn sure, Washington is the exact opposite of what he knows in Montana!

I think it would sure be a great question to ask him though. He really COULS be the Candidate to stuff the Big Business love affair of the Pubs rught up their......

[goforit]

8. I believe a Spitzer/Fitzgerald ticket would be outstanding!!!!

Any man that can stand against CORRUPTION against
both parties is damn good to me!!!

[sproutster]

10. Everyone trusts Murtha in "wartime"

and I love him :)

[Uncle Joe]

11. According to the corpwhorate owned MSM

Bush was loaded with charisma, everyone wanted to have him in their home for a beer, that turned out well.:sarcasm:

Personally, I could never call the champion of the technology that empowered us to promote the charismatic ones a retread, especially as he won in spite of the corpwhorate owned MSM's War against Gore for fighting to give us this freedom. I would feel better than I have ever felt if Al Gore were in the White House where he belongs.

[FlemingsGhost]

13. Who believes "elections" are how fascist regimes are disposed?

Anyone?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. If you don't think Clark or Feingold have "charisma" or the ability to

"set middle America's heart afire", then give us some examples of people you DO think have this ability. Not necessarily from this era, so we know where you're "coming from".

I happen to think those two candidates are VERY charismatic.

I don't think shrub is a particularly charismatic guy at all, this has just been sold relentlessly to Americans since 2000. Wes Clark is WAY AHEAD of shrub in that department (I know shrub is not running next time so no need to point that out).

In other words, I think shrub is an example of a guy without a lot of charisma or ability to "set middle America's hearts afire", yet there he sits.

I think Dean is a pretty charismatic guy, but the very qualities that some might ascribe to "charisma" were used against him during primaries.

I think charisma is important, but perhaps overrated. And, like shrub, whoever wins and sits in the office will have a certain amount of it attributed to them just because of the power and influence of the position.

So, who ya got? JFK? Clinton? Edwards?

[ruggerson]

18. See post #9 n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. Right, and dude has political base with like zero electoral votes. Who

else ya got?

[ruggerson]

20. That's the entire point

you don't need (or necessarily want) years of experience or a "political base" or any other mathematical calculation of supposed electability.

What you need is someone who appeals to people on a gut level. It's instinct. And it doesn't matter if that individual is from Montana or California or Mississippi.

They have to have the "it" factor.

Not a single person (with the possible exception of Edwards) who ran in '04 has it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

23. And you have not provided examples other than this of historical people

who you considered to have the "it" factor.

[ruggerson]

26. Historical people?

both Kennedys.
FDR
Reagan (remember, I'm talking about how people PERCEIVED them).
Clinton
Truman
Teddy Roosevelt

for starters.

[blm]

25. Let's go with charm over INTELLECT and SINCERITY - worked real well -

let's GIVE IN to the media whores and expect them to LOVE our down-home guy even more than the GOP's down home guy.

If you think Democrats can't win because of down-home charm and not because the media and the voting machines are controlled by the GOP, then I doubt your priorities.

[ruggerson]

27. Yep, i do think that

And it doesn't have anything to do with giving in to the media whores. It's understanding how AMERICANS vote for their president.

And intellect and sincerity are part of the whole package. But they don't trump likability.

[blm]

28. Murtha started out "likable" and turned into a radical preaching surrender

The media did that to push the WH storyline.

Bush is a sour person - the media pushed the idea he was everything he is NOT. People fell for it the same way they fell for every trend that ever happened. They were TALKED into it.

Name ONE Dem, including the uber-charming Bill Clinton, who hasn't been defined by the broadcast media since the GOP gained control in1996-7.

[NCarolinawoman]

34. Yep, and the Columbus School of Journalism said that Kerry

was deemed "charismatic" by the media in 2000, but in 2004 the media "decided" he was boring.

I always considered Kerry quite compelling.

I also have friends who wind-surf and are neither rich or eletist; I consider that another spin that the Repubs put out and the media went with.

And how come the media didn't chuckle about people "wanting to have a beer with an alcholic?" spin spin spin by the media.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Only people I can think of

is Mark Warner and/or Russ Feingold.

[AtomicKitten]

31. Still rooting for Al Gore.

A dark horse because he isn't expected to run.

[leeroysphitz]

32. We WILL have a dark horse candidate for '08.

He/She will be an honest, tough as nails, no nonsense heavy hitter that will scare the SHIT out of the repukes.

He/ She will have STRONG grass roots support and a broad base of support. People in red and blue states alike will like what this firebrand has to say and how he or she says it. This person will look like the one to watch.

He/ She will, of course, some how and deliberately have the rug pulled right out from under him/ her by people we trust leaving us with the choice of voting for a status quo dem or yet another right wing nut job.

Can't wait.

[politicasista]

35. We need darkhorses for 2006 first n/t

[ruggerson]

36. Here's a good clip of Brian Schweitzer

on Lou Dobbs:

http://www.saveamericanjobs.us/CNN_Lou_Dobbs_NotThePartyLine_050524.wmv

[OneBlueSky]

37. not only that . . . we need someone not currently in office . . .

(particularly in Congress) who is willing to maintain independence by refusing corporate campaign money . . . once a politician accepts corporate bucks, s/he become part of the problem rather than part of the solution . . .