Alright Bush, You Have Now Pissed Off My Lifelong "Conservative" Folks.

[DistressedAmerican]

I openly admit that I hate George Bush. I think that he is the worst president I have seen in my lifetime. That is no secret. But, my parents are life long Iowa Republicans. My dad was president of the Iowa state young Republicans in College and worked as a page in the Iowa state house when he was young. He turned against Nixon when it was clear he was a criminal. But, supported him to the hilt prior to that.

They think of themselves as "conservatives". You know the ones. Small government, limited spending, and general isolationist foreign policy (at least in theory). The people who we all thought of as "Republicans" until 2000 when the Neo-Conservative/Religious Right really hijacked the name "Republican" and started pushing a radically different agenda of government expansion into many facets of daily life, expansion of the government itself, massive deficit spending, fusion of Christian religious principles with the law and "pre-emptive" warfare. My mother stressed several times the difference between "conservatives" and the folks invading Iraq, pushing "intelligent" design, and wiretapping American citizens without warrants.

I reassured her that we (Distressed Sis and I) knew the difference between a conservative and a neo-conservative. A conservative can be reasoned and dealt with. A balance can be found. A neo-conservative has an agenda that they are going to push regardless of who objects. And that agenda is in complete opposition to traditional conservative principles despite being linked with the "Republican" branding. In general, I think this is a reflection of the fact that they know full well that they are at best a short lives phenomena and want to get as much down on paper and into the pockets of those that benefit while they can.

Over the holidays I asked my parents (who voted libertarian last 2 elections) what they thought of Bush these days on various accounts. I asked my dad what he thought of Bush's domestic spying program. His immediate one word response was, "Sick!". My mother mentioned the issue and her disapproval several times as well. Both reserved judgment on the war until they saw if there really were any weapons of mass destruction and have now definitely decided it was a huge national mistake that will be very costly. My mother now openly bring up the intrusion of religion into government. She said at one point, "I fear I am going to die in a theocracy". That blew my mind. I had never heard her mention the issue to any great degree besides generally expressing her displeasure with the growth of the influence of the religious right in the party.

When they have so completely alienated traditional Republicans like that, the new republicans are due to get shoved back into their box. Of course they are now talking a lot about John McCaine. But, even that ass-kissing Bush toadie would be an improvement at this point.

Lets just hope that we are ready to offer up a good, electable candidate come 2008. :applause:

[spun_in_montana]

1. That would be about half of

my extended family.
Even Grannie, a lifelong Republican was vicious in her statements about where this country is going with B*sh at the helm.

[BlueIris]

2. "Sick!" You're in wicked trouble now, George.

It's good they've finally been inspired to object. Sound like sane folks. You're a lucky poster.

[carolinalady]

3. Thinking about what you said, I can see where the traditionalists

may support an impeachment of the current regime. When they are gone however, I think what happens next depends on who is running. Dems need to focus on developing an inclusive platform that appeals to a broad spectrum of people not just the radical left and continue our efforts to recruit new voters. We also need to actively support states like my own who have kicked out Diebold and are insisting on a paper trail next election regardless. Here is New Hanover county there is speculation that we may go to a straight paper ballot for the next primary.

[gratuitous]

4. I hope your parents aren't talking to just you and sis

I hope they're talking to their conservative Republican friends and neighbors, talking about what a disaster Bush has been for our country, and sharing the horrid details of his misrule.

[CountAllVotes]

5. IMO it is the spying on the American people

that will bring * down, down on his knees never to get back up. People don't like this kind of crap, regardless of political affiliation. Why the hell are they spying "ON ME"? Angry, oh yeah. It is just too bad that this realization is what it has taken, this direct "hit" so to speak, to cause many that were otherwise on the fence so to speak to wake the fuck up and see the reality of this sick perverted killing creep!

:kick:

[rkc3]

6. I'm not so sure spying will bring Bush down.

Most nutters I've had the pleasure of speaking with believe there is nothing wrong with it. In fact, their general response is "I have nothing to hide, so why should I worry?"

Of course, they get pretty pissed off when you point out how many soldiers are dying in Iraq to bring them freedom while bush is taking it away from us.

[Straight Shooter]

7. Those nutters think they have nothing to hide?

The problem is, they're judging their own actions. But, when it comes to spying, their actions are being judged by someone without any tolerance for what they do. So it doesn't matter whether they think their actions are "okay" or not. If someone in authority has a grievance against them, their actions can be spun as "doing something wrong" and they will have absolutely no defense against the charges.

The Jews weren't doing anything wrong, either. Since when does a person have to be actually doing something wrong in order for injustice to rear its ugly head?

[CountAllVotes]

12. oh they worry alright

being they are likely just as corrupt as the rest of the * cabal!

:kick:

[leftofthedial]

8. the neocons took over the repuke party

when they helped bring down Nixon. Reagan began the neocon debacle that is now destroying America in 1980. It's been going on longer than even that, but they clearly were in charge beginning with Reagan, who was no more a true conservative than the current little moron. They've used rhetoric, fear and money to con your parents and other "conservatives" for a generation now.

Glad your folks have seen these criminals for what they are. But at what point do they begin to examine their own beliefs and their own role in what has befallen America? Nixon--criminal. Ford--idiot accessory after the fact. Reagan--brought the current crop of criminals to the White Hosue in the first place; senile idiot figurehead. George the First--scion of the crime family. George the Lesser--traitor, criminal, liar, thief. I can't think of a repuke I'd trust if they told me the ocean is wet. There is no conservative movement in American politics, any more than there is a progressive movement. Both parties work for the corporations and the repukes are by far the more overtly criminal.

[ComerPerro]

9. As long as "conservatives" keep electing NeoCons and NeoCon enablers

including John McCain, they have no right to complain about how their conservative values have been hijacked.

[KharmaTrain]

10. I Spent A Lifetime In Iowa One Year

I can almost picture your family...from a town like Waverly or Grinnell or Creston. The folks who long supported Chuckles Grassley cause he's "one of us"...also Jim Leach. But they also like Harkin...cause he still is the farmer's best friend. But, honestly, from the perspective of someone from Illinois, looking at Iowa is like an astromoner looking at Venus...always very cloudy.

What can explain Iowa going for Dukakis in '88 and then asshat in '04? Of course the caucuses are an animal all to themselves, but one of the greatest charms about Iowa politics. Where else can you get together and party every four years, bitch about everything and anything and have TV cameras covering the whole shebang? LOL.

The danger some tread here in thinking "conservative" with a small c Repugnicans are jumping the shark is thinking this means they're ready to vote for Democrats. My sister-in-law's in-laws are "country club repugnicans"...cut of a similar cloth as what you describe. Their big bugaboo these days is "illegal immigration" (I call it hispanophobia...they're afraid they're going to be outspoken and actually have to learn a few spanish words...oh no!!!) and how the Iraq invasion is being bungled. They're not ready to embrace Howard Dean or even Wesley Clark. They might just stay home November....just might.

[CornField]

14. A different perspective

Having moved from the buckle of the Bible Belt (Oklahoma) to Iowa, I have found the state to be a huge breath of fresh air. I guess it's all relative to what you've known, eh? ;)

I've said this before, but I think it is worth saying again. In the past, the smaller midwest communities were networked by their workplace and their unions. That is, farmers trusted farmers, auto workers trusted auto workers. Families and businesses came to depend on both for economic development, community enhancement and the joys of living. There has slowly, but surely been shift in the waters. Families who use to look at businesses and unions for support and security have lost faith in those institutions. As more jobs are moved overseas and more local plants close, small and mid-sized town America is hurting. Many of these places exist on the map because of some large industry or railroad connection. As the winds begin to blow in different directions, communities have been left to pick up the debris.

Now entering from stage right, small town churches and ministerial alliances. I don't mean for this to come across as saying all the churches and congregations who stepped up to the plate had a sinister plan. If you ask, 99% of them just wanted to "fill a need" within the community. Young people needed a place to go after school when previously stay-at-home moms took on jobs to make ends meet. Families needed places to get together when company picnics became few and far between. People needed people and the churches were there to ease the transition of the communities. When times got really bad (and they did in lots of communities and still do in others) people were able to find a soft place to land within their church congregation. Parents knew their church families would never let their children go hungry. People understood that most jobs are filled by word of mouth and not by the newspaper ads.

Take for instance my Iowa town. By Iowa standards, it isn't really a small community at all. I believe we are closing in on 30,000 population now. Still much of our socializing is done by way of churches or church-sponsored events. The largest marathon in town (and a boom to local economics) is hosted by a local church. Our largest festival, originally three days to celebrate and educate about our community's history, is now down to roughly a half day. The other two and a half days still exist, but they have been pulled into the religious realm -- Christian rock concerts, community praise and worship services, face painting and preaching, etc. Most Girl Scout and Boy Scout groups meet at churches. Many civic organizations meet at churches. Church leadership serves on many Chamber and city boards and commissions including tourism, business committee, economic development and more.

In many ways the churches have become -- or have been allowed to become -- the voice of the people. All-in-all, this isn't such a bad thing... until the government begins providing taxpayer funds to the churches so they can better be the voice of the people. Then, suddenly, the people's friend begins to understand on which side it's bread is buttered and there is conflict.

[mattomjoe]

11. It's really important that they recognize that this goes beyond just Bush.

After all, Bush can't run again (unless he really is just that crazy). It's good to point out the failure of Bush, but we need to paint the other Republicans with that brush as well.

[EFerrari]

13. I think the "republicans" have beat us to it.

Why des anyone think Bush is a Republican, anyway? Because he says so? If his lips move, I take it for granted that he's reading a script or, wishing he were.

My dad won't defend Bush any more either. And, he hates losing an argument, so I don't even ask.

But, the kind of corruption that has overtaken the GOP is truly breathtaking. And while making everyone "a little dirty" has kept the party in line behind Bu$hCo, it will now take the party down. It's going to be years before they recover from this misAdministration

They will take themselves down. But, it won't matter if our votes aren't counted. :eyes: