"Gay Star Slams Hollywood Attitude"---Sir Ian tells it like it is

[libnnc]

Gay star slams Hollywood attitude


Sir Ian McKellen has criticised Hollywood's attitude towards gay stars.

<snip> It is still "very, very, very difficult" for homosexual US actors to be open about their sexuality, he said.

"The film industry is very old fashioned in California," he said at the Berlin Film Festival, where he received a lifetime achievement award.

The British star of The Lord of the Rings said Oscar-nominated cowboy love story Brokeback Mountain may open the door to more films about homosexuality.

But the industry still had rigid ideas about leading men, he told reporters.
<snip>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4706092.stm

[Catch22Dem]

1. Is that really a "SLAM?" A little overdramatic isn't it?

If you ask me, Sir Ian was just simply telling it like it is in a very cool and collected manner. I hate when people do that and the media says something like "Crazy Wild-Eyed Gay Actor SLAMS Hollywood for No Apparent Reason" You know what I mean? Anyway, I love Sir Ian and I'll watch just about anything he's in. A brilliant actor, and if you watch him on politically oriented shows like Maher, he's even more brilliant.

ON EDIT: By the way, I know that's the title of the article. I was not addressing my comments at you. I was just making a commentary on media manipulation.

[libnnc]

3. I know. Point well made.

It's interesting that the BBC chose those words to describe his views.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. I think it's a well-directed slam at Hollywood

Hollywood continues to a the richest yet most fake, anesthesized, altered environment. Not only is what Sir Ian said correct, but also other things he didn't mention. For example, Hollywood requires its female stars to be surgically altered, to be under 30, and as a result no Hollywood film female stars look like ordinary American women. If you look at any TV programs or movies from Europe, you'll see that their stars look like regular people in their countries. And that's not all. Almost all Hollywood films have a good/bad, black/white theme. Hollywood films mean to teach the watcher what is good and what is bad, as if they were children, and does not allow for shades of gray or complex storylines. Most Hollywood material is unrealistic, not at all like real life. That's why when I'm at the video store, I go to the FOREIGN MOVIE section. I can't stand the silliness of the American film industry.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. That's what called 'Taking it to another level'; ....

Good points all.

Add one more: American movies are BORING. Five or six formulas perpetually being recycled.

10. same here - I go for foreign movies

Foreign movies many times are so much more about depth in life and a poignancy that I can't find in Hollywood movies.

I rented Kristin Lavrensdatter directed by Liv Ullmann recently - now there is a love story for you.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. True. American movies are boring, fake and childish.

Their stars are expected to be boring, fake and childish. Actors being "out" is of course real. Much too real for Hollywood to handle in its fake bs.

My question is, do film industries cater to what their audiences demand, and maybe the Hollywood audience (Americans) is also boring, fake and childish, and refuses to allow people to be "out?"

[mitchum]

17. Excellent post, Sarah

I couldn't agree more

[peacebird]

2. In pro-cycling there are many women who are "out, loud, & proud" but

publicly at least the men's peloton has nary a single gay member in it. I cover races for on online pro-cycling webzine and even in the "family" as it were - one never hears a peep about it.
Some of the women have brought it up & asked me - why are the women allowed to be gay, straight, whatever and no one cares. They can just be themselves but the men must all be hetero or very much in the closet. Seems unlikely to me that there are NO gay men in the entire pro-ranks. Sad, really.

[Coventina]

4. It's a macho thing. Gay men aren't "real" men.

That's why it's more acceptable for women to be gay.

Also, I think the cultural stereotype as men being the sexual aggressors is another factor. If a man is known to be gay, all the men around him feel threatened that he is going to pursue him.

It's all fear. And very sad.

[Glorfindel]

8. Aw, gee, the poor threatened heterosexual males....

that must explain all the preventive brutality that gay boys have to endure. "If I don't beat him up first, he might grab my pee-pee!" It's not fear, it's hatred, pure and simple, and no amount of gentle persuasion, consciousness-raising, or education will ever change anything about it.

[Coventina]

26. No need to snap at me. I wasn't defending homophobia.

No need to be so unpleasant to someone who is on the same team.

[Glorfindel]

33. Truly sorry...I did NOT intend to be unpleasant toward you

I thought I was merely making an observation. I appreciate your being on the same team, and never, under any circumstances, would I snap at you.
;( :blush:

[Coventina]

34. It's okay, I guess I misunderstood your intent. Thanks for the reply.

Typed words are tricky things, since you cannot see or hear the delivery of the "speaker".

I apologize for taking offense where none was intended.

:hug:

[ljm2002]

7. Why are the men not allowed to be 'out'?

I think it's because the Bible only mentions male homosexuality. I think that's why this particular cultural taboo is more ingrained. You can't quote the Bible to slam lesbianism, because it is not in there.

[Glorfindel]

9. Sure it is...

See St. Paul's epistle to the Romans, Chapter 1, Verses 26 and 27. Pretty explicit, I'd say.

[ljm2002]

13. Oh dear...

...no student of the Bible, me! :spank: -- hits self on head

That's what I get for not going to primary sources.

[MrPrax]

12. He's right...

Hollywood, like the military, practises the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy...it's a big rule. The media follows it to the max. Especially on talk shows, where telltale refs are regularly bleeped when a star unwittingly mentions 'such and such' celebrity. The people in the industry are all aware of it, it's just it is more or less understood that the PUBLIC just can't handle the shock.

Let's face it...American tabloids would make a mint if they simply 'outed' celebrities instead of worrying about the 'look' and 'sluttiness' of mostly female stars.

Hollywood and it's politics are fake...

14. And what about singers that are gay

like Elton John. They could write lyrics about homosexuals, but they don't. "I remember when rock was young, me and Susie had so much fun".

[misanthrope]

15. A couple of things...

...One, Elton John used to try and force himself into the straight role. "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" is autobiographical and concerns a certain woman to whom he was once engaged. In that light, it doesn't seem as odd.

Secondly, the song "Crocodile Rock" is a work of fiction as Elton John would have been a wee child in the '50s and wouldn't have been going dancing with a bunch of teenagers much less on dates. It was produced as a way to cash in on the '50s nostalgia that was beginning to sweep the States at that time.

Third, homosexuality was certainly tabu in the 1950s and singing about he and another guy going dancing together in that time frame would have destroyed the continuity of the song to which you refer.

Fourth, most of his audience was straight and releasing a song like that in the early '70s would have alienated listeners. Elton was certainly concerned with making money and continuing his career.

18. I see your points

about this being a 50s song. However Elton was doing the same thing Hollywood is and that is staying away from cultural taboos. If he would have written a pop song about him and his lover, and it was good, I would have liked it and also he would be honest and representing.

He is certainly rich enough to do whatever he likes now. I don't follow his music currently. Does he write lyrics about homosexual love?

[misanthrope]

21. I've got no idea...

...I personally don't care for the guy. He strikes me as a bit shallow and enamored of the glitterati status.

I just remember his early career and what those times were like.

As for now, I think if he writes love songs, they're probably sexually ambiguous or catered to appeal to straight folks since they are a much larger market and he does like his jet set lifestyle.

If you ever noticed, Melissa Etheridge's stuff was written so that the songs were about no particular sex and as a result, it let the listener derive a more personal connotation of the work. But she's not hanging out with Princess Di and Versace, either.

Now, if you're questioning whether the entertainment business' penchant for going for the easy buck, i.e. staying away from gay-friendly stuff, affects society's apprehension of homosexuals...?

Good question.

22. Yes, well I thought that was the point of the

original post - regarding how Hollywood should make more gay films because there are gay people and Hollywood should be more of a mirror.

And I do think that popular songs about gay people would certainly help the culture of acceptance and awareness.

[dsc]

24. His lyrics have been much more gay lately

Take a listen to One which is AIDS related for an example.

[YOY]

29. "Nikita"

is a man's name.

[peacebird]

25. didn't Bernie Taupin used to write the early lyrics for Elton?

I always figured Elton's "glam" bit was to make up for poor self image from his early days as a fat homely kid? I mean he is certainly not a physically attractive kind of guy....

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Elton John doesn't write his own lyrics

At least, he didn't in the vast majority of his songs, especially the well known ones. Bernie Taupin wrote nearly all his lyrics, and is heterosexual. John could ask Taupin to write from a homosexual point of view, I suppose.

[mitchum]

23. Lou Reed actually did have the courage to sing about gay themes...

over thirty years. At the same time when John was performing in heteroface.

[Misunderestimator]

27. Because it's no different than what actors do... They play roles...

They sing others' lyrics. To sell records, it makes sense to appeal to a broad audience, instead of just 10%... actually even less since it would be appealing to only half of the 10% (that half being gay men).

It would be like expecting a gay actor to only play gay roles. Wouldn't make much sense to me.

[YOY]

28. "Oh Nikita I need you so"...Definitetly about a man.

Hate to rain on your parade but Nikita is a commonly used diminutive name for Nikolai. Dimya is for Dimitri and Sasha is for Alexander. Just because it ends in -a the western mind perceives it as being about a woman.

One could do the same for Japanese names (Most female names end with -i or -o and some male with an -a)


Elton has been singing about love between two men. But it flew right in under public knowledge of foreign culture's radar.

[Touchdown]

31. George Michael's new album (2004) does.

"Amazing" is about his current boyfriend, now official partner. I think another is ahout his former lover who died.

[mitchum]

16. I'm also concerned about Hollywood's trend to have gay characters DIE...

is that really the only way that they can convince middle America that gays share a common humanity?

It seems to be very similar to Spike Lee's spot on criticism of the trend of the "magic negro"

[Greyhound]

20. It is no mystery why Hollywood does anything it does, it's called

show-BUSINESS! That is the beginning, middle and end. That's it, nothing more, no conspiracies, no social manipulation, no political agenda, it is first, last, and always about the money.
Perhaps the ultimate irony of Hollywood is that every time it changes it is the result of somebody sneaking through the back door, or under the radar. Witness the current (well, maybe not current, but most recent) incarnation, the now ubiquitous "indy" films.
After a string of very successful films in the late '80s and through the '90s that the studios wouldn't even look at, they 'discovered' that a large audience existed for independent films (they completely missed the point that it was the stories these films told that people loved). So now every studio has an 'independent' production label to slap on the low-budget projects.
Like any huge industry it has two motivations, fear and greed (truly a reflection of amerika), that's it, nothing else.

[saracat]

30. WHAT does everyone not get about making MONEY?

I am a producer and I can understand not casting an openly gay actor,to play a straight romantic lead in an expensive production. One: I don't see where the actors sexuality should be an issue in any sense. The actor's sexuality should not override the importance of the production itself.I also wouldn't want a straight actor who was making an issue of their sexuality.Two:I wouldn't want to diminish my box office. An actor is a fantasy. Many straight women have a difficulty fantasizing about known gay actors. This makes them less likely to attend their productions.What producers are angling for is both the gay and straight audiences, KWIM? We want both straight women and gay men to be fans of the actor.We need to capture that entire universe in order to make our money back and make a profit.
At the end of the day, the obligation is to the stakeholders, and to the people for whom entertainment provides a living.It is called show "business" for a reason.

[bleedingheart]

32. I have to agree...there are many reasons why actors are cast in films

and I don't work in the film industry... for instance looks are a big issue...imagine Phillip Seymour Hoffman playing Aragorn in the LOTR saga....he wouldn't look right....I like Hoffman a lot..he is a great actor but he isn't the guy I see playing the part of a ranger....