The Deficit is not a mistake.

[txaslftist]

I recently read Lakoff's "Don't think of an elephant", and he makes an interesting observation in there. After Clinton balanced the budget (and he did it in the face of Republican opposition, which is what they want you to forget), he kept the social programs, like medicare and social security and such, largely intact, and in fact managed to find money to increase some programs.

The Republicans were furious. They'd been advocating killing those programs since they were created. Bush's tax cuts were intentional, but the intent was not just to cut taxes and shift the tax burden to the middle class, but also to resurrect the deficit. The idea being that if the deficit got large enough, it would create an emergency in the bond market and with inflation so great that the Republicans could justify cutting those programs.

In other words, the fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administration is not an accident or a failing, but rather a deliberate ploy to create a justification for cutting these popular programs which otherwise could never be cut.

To put it more simply, the idea is to deliberately mismanage the budget and LIHOP a crisis, then respond to the crisis by doing what they wanted to do in the first place, but never could have gotten away with. Just like ANWAR.

To put it even more simply, the Republicans have deliberately fucked up our economy. They've hurt the country on purpose to get what they want and thwart the will of the people.

They are our enemies.

[havocmom]

1. Yep, they wanna go back the the 'good ol days' of Robber Barons,

child sweat shops and NO environmental protection.

[tjwash]

14. Your kidding right? They are already.there.

What do you think outsourcing to India and China is?

[havocmom]

30. Not quite where they wanna be. Until we are starving and begging

for a roll back on all environmental, safety, workers comp, wage & pension laws in exchange for jobs, we are not quite where they want us.

[tjwash]

43. You mean we will be a third world country...

...and those that helped to get us there will live in their gated, and armed-guarded communities safely tucked away from the "riff-raff"? Then they have a veritable pool of slave labor for doing things like cooking their food, mowing their lawns, and cleaning their houses via debtors prisons, and wage slavery? Oh, and don't think we can go anywhere either, as that big assed wall they are trying to build on the borders to keep the "undesirables" out will then serve to keep us penned in.

Obviously we have both given this a little bit of thought...

[havocmom]

54. Yep, we both have thought on this one.

Been saying since Bush I that the rich GOP puppeteers want the US to become Third World feudal society. People used to laugh and call me names. Lots of those same people are underemployed now and seeing a future for their kids that offers only positions as domestics, military careers making the world safe for corporate domination or mercs guarding those gated communities.

The ultra rich do not like the idea that in a democracy, us unwashed masses can get laws and regulations passed that inhibit their antics and follies. They don't like anybody telling them how to treat the help or where to throw the toxins. They mean to return us to a dark age and a gilded one for themselves.

They failed to learn some important lessons from history. If not they, then their scions down the road will be impaled on pitch forks and eaten one way or another.

Neocons are the tools. The real evil are the retro-lords.

[China_cat]

16. The msm should be hitting on that point in every story

on the miners. Safety precautions were deliberately ignored by the mine owners with permission from the government. Matewan is about to recur.

[Triana]

57. I don't think the Repukes ever left the days of the Robber Barons...

...it's the nature of their platform. They've always been robber barons. It's their M.O.

[stepnw1f]

2. The Whole GOP Should Be Put on Trial

for this. I have no doubt in mind destroying the middleclass, stealing elections to place their people in high positions, and waging an illegal war.

[pokercat999]

20. Unfortunately we are coming down to the final and worst

answer.....civil war.

I have been an advocate for the peaceful division of the US into at least two separate countries for some time. Time is running out as things get worse and worse faster and faster there will come a tipping point. When that point comes I will no longer want to be called an "american".

[stepnw1f]

36. Civil War?

Over what? The GOP getting caught and exposed? I see the GOP has been working overtime trying to split the sates for a while now. looks like they have succeeded in convincing you too.

[pokercat999]

61. I think they have convinced me, what's the purpose of living

with half a population that is so .........disagreeable? I don't want to become like them, they will not become like me (progressives) so it may be time to just give it up (the US) as outdated. Why the Nationalism?

[Maezeppa]

3. Deficit

Naturally. I've noticed this for the last couple of cycles - Republicans would rather spend the treasury into the ground than see it "wated" on black folks and pubic welfare programs, etc.

[txindy]

24. Welcome to Du

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

25. In the most meaningful terms, the Federal Debt is the highest in 50 years.

First, welcome to DU. :hi:

Now, here's the Federal Debt as a percentage of the GDP ... the most meaningful measure.





Here's why. As anyone can see, Reagan/Bush and Bush/Cheney have done their damndest to bankrupt the nation, funneling billions out to their crony 'privateers' and putting this nation in onerous debt for decades to come.

[txaslftist]

45. Your charts aren't accurate...

...although well intended. The CBO deliberately does not include the cost of the Iraq debacle in the charts they produce, as that is "emergency spending" or "special appropriation" , ie-money from nowhere.

Add a few hundred billion.

[TahitiNut]

55. They're not from the CBO. They're Treasury actuals (unless pink) ...

... and reflect the deficit and debt including all spending (for actuals) and OMB projected expenditures for budget planning (in pink). Clearly, the White House 'games' the budget (planned) for both Iraq and Afghanistan by excluding those operations from the cyclic budget process and handling them as supplemental appropriations.

The charts have not yet been updated to refect FY2005 actuals and updated FY2006 (and beyond) projections. (Give me a chance, huh?) When I (and they) get around to updating them in early February, they'll refect the excess FY2005 spending (i.e. "supplemental appropriations") and will, of course, be even worse.

Let's be clear. While Iraq/Afghanistan are technically "On-Budget," they're not included in the OMB/CBO Budget process - being handled as supplemental appropriations. Thus, unless and until such appropriations are made NOBODY can include them in projections with any degree of verifiable accuracy. Nobody.

A good part of your (mistaken) perception that they're inaccurate is apparently based on the scale - measuring in terms of a percentage of the GDP. Perhaps this corresponding graph in current dollars would help correct that perception. (I regard such a scale as misleading - due to the changing value of the dollar and underlying economy's size.)





FWIW, you won't find more accurate graphs. I've researched this. Often. You're certainly welcome to do the work yourself. Judging from your comment ("Add a few hundred billion.") you might benefit from the learning experience - if only in reading graphs that aren't scaled in dollars. Got it? :shrug:

[Usrename]

60. cheese, I like this graph better -

and I'm not mislead by it at all, TahitiNut. At least not anymore than I want to be. It is more frightening. Sort of like doing per-capita income in current dollars and then adjusting for inflation. Problem is, I don't believe any of the inflation numbers they are spewing.

Similar with % of GDP. I don't think it fairly illustrates the weakening dollar (actually it is supposed to, but I don't think it has any mechanism to account for the rate of change, or acceleration in the system, or more spcifically, how fast the currency changes from strong to weak or weak to strong). A lot of inertia builds up in trade deficits when this fluctuates rapidly. Good Australian products that were affordable 5 years ago are now more expensive than good American products, if you get my drift. Graphically, it appears like we just jump from then to now, without fully representing the misery that is caused by the transition.

What I know for sure is: they are fucking it up for everybody.

[yellowdogmi]

28. Welcome to DU

I actually read in the big dog's book where Papa bush did the same thing. Bill had to scale back on the social programs he could implement because of the deficit left after twelve years of repukes. Treasonous bastards
:mad:

[newyawker99]

51. Hi Maezeppa!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[madokie]

52. welcome to the real deal, DU

uncanny film festival. Does that ring any bells.

[InsultComicDog]

4. Nothing new about this

Good 'ol Grover Nordquist advocated this for years.

[txaslftist]

13. I know this is not a 'new' revelation to those in the know...

...however, it bears repeating. People in my stretch of the woods don't know this. They 'blame' the deficit on an irresponsible congress, not realizing that it is intentional.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Having no surplus reduces our national opportunity to reinvent our economy

I think the longterm agenda of Big Oil is to maintain our dependence on oil and the resultant power that this bestows on the Big Oil companies....it assures that they will continue to dominate our politics. I think of how Gore would have used the surplus to retool our infrastructure to decentralize energy and develop a national energy model that is both clean and jobs-intensive. A decentralized energy model that reduces our strategic weakness in our dependency on foreign oil is in our national security interests....but it's not in the financial interests of those that run Big Oil and the Executive Branch.

[napi21]

6. This was actually part of their program beginning in 1994.

I've heard it from many Pubs, although Rush was the biggest promoter!

The plan is to make the deficit SO BIG, there'll be no choice but to cut all the social programs because there will me NO MONEY LEFT!!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. Uh... *yeah*

They're not all that secretive about it, just google "norquist bathtub".

[NoAmericanTaliban]

8. NutGingrich takes credit for balancing the budget

on CSPAN this morning. Claims that the GOP put pressure on Clinton to balance the budget.

The deficit does two things to help out the GOP - they can have an excuse to eliminate programs for the poor - like they just did - & lets not forget that banks make money of the deficit. More the gov't borrows more they make...that is why Greenspan & co. do not mind deficit spending. The banks in turn take some of their profit & make contributions to the GOP.

[txaslftist]

15. Nut is a fucking liar.

Clinton was cutting the deficit pre-1994; and did it in the face of Republican opposition. Oh sure, they wanted to balance the budget too, but their idea was to balance it by having old folks eat dog food and leaving the poor to treat cancer with prayer.

[TahitiNut]

26. Hey!! Y'all say "nut" like it's a bad thing.

I object!

[madokie]

53. I would expect you would

ROFLMAO

[mazzarro]

9. Their Agenda: Make Things Bad Enough And People Will Give Up

And it is so sad that some of the people most adversely affected by this deliberate mismanagemennt of the economy are still blind to this decepetion of the rethugs. Even when you look at their governing at the federal in general, it seem to be that same idea is in work there - they are deliberately making government to be bad in all things - ie Katrina, etc - in order to turn the average citizen sour against the government.

[IChing]

10. This has been address before in PNAC tactics in foreign relations

Destabilization in foreign countries creates opportunities for corporate and neo-con openings, just look at Iraq,
we know there was not a plan on "real" reconstruction, look who benefitted from their "planning".
Don't forget that New Orleans and that FEMA can't do it's job, so we need to privatize it,
public schools can't do their job so we need to support private and parochial schools.


I will try to find that article which described the process in their own words

Nominated

[mattclearing]

11. Duh.

I thought everyone knew that the deficit was a big excuse to justify cutting programs (as well as avoid having the ability to develop new programs).

[LSK]

12. its called "Starving the Beast" and its not a new theory

Krugman has been pointing this out for years and so have others.

Bankrupt the National Treasury and then you can cut all those "welfare mom programs" while claiming you are saving us from total ruin. Thats their plan.

[txaslftist]

17. It isn't a plan, it's sabotage.

Deliberate sabotage. They are traitors.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. Of course

I've also read that Bush hates FDR because he was a very rich democrat and all he did for the country. They don't believe in government except for them getting rich. Anybody who's been paying attention can see that.

[Norquist Nemesis]

19. You might want to read up on Grover Norquist

who's known for the phrase "Make Government small enough that you can drown it in the bathtub."

Now, there's a true patriot for democracy! :sarcasm:

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Doesn't That Make Him An Anarchist?

It would seem to make a gov't so small as to be ineffectual is the same as anarchy. Back in the day, the police shot at anarchists. Oh, for the good old days. That tool needs to move to a small unihabited island so he can dream his anarchic dreams.
The Professor

[Norquist Nemesis]

27. I wish he WOULD move to his own private island

preferrably, with no communication services of any sort.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. I'll Find The Island. We'll Split The Airfare! (eom)

The Professor

[Hubert Flottz]

44. Hell with the island sent the bastard to Baghdad on the next bus!

Along with anyone who's EVER agreed with him.

The Green Zone reclaimation project point man sounds good!

[IronLionZion]

47. Send them to hell on the next handbasket!

[klook]

21. A job for W

If your aim is to bankrupt an enterprise, who better to do it for you than George W. Bush? He is the king of ineptitude.

This is a point many seem to miss. The Republicans want huge deficits. They want the government to fail financially. Only then will they be able to fully implement their corporations-uber-alles dreams.

[melissinha]

23. Absolutely

I just can't figure out which was their biggest priority..... fatten defense budget, dismantle social programs, maintain oil dependence, tax cuts for the rich...etc...

I think all their goals worked well with each other. The fact that Bush suspended the Davis Bacon Act during Katrina was indicative of this....

[Yavin4]

31. There's One Huuuuge Problem With The GOP's Deficit Plan

The GOP's base, people who live in the Southern states, are highly dependent on government spending. Lyndon Johnson said in 1964 that passage of the Civil Rights Act would turn the South over to Republicans for years to come. So, why did it take until 1994 for the Republicans to assume full control of the congress?

Because Southern Dem. Senators and Congressmen would always win an election by bringing home the pork barrell spending programs from Washington. The South's economy has always lagged behind the rest of the nation, and they need government spending to keep pace. Until the Republicans proved that they too could bring home the bacon, the South wouldn't vote for them, Civil Rights or not.

[progressoid]

35. Yep, they are finding that out the hard way.

I think that will be a problem with Joe and Jane six-pack in the rest of the nation as well. They certainly can't cut defense at this time. And most of the programs they want to cut are going to hurt back home as too (where the votes come from).

[pat_k]

32. Deficit Spending => Inflation => Suck Money to the Top

It's part and parcel of their greedy desire to inflate (and hyperinflate) the assets held by the few by sucking money out of the pockets of the rest of us.

Too bad it can't last forever. Those who exhibit greed of this magnitude always destroy that which they greedily pursue.

Tragically, they take others down with them. Sure, King Midas suffered for his greed, but his daughter paid with her life.

[mopinko]

33. you are forgetting about the stealing

you are forgetting how much of this money is just being stolen. that is why they stopped the longstanding practice of having to have enabling legislation in order to get money appropriated. now they just stick a line item in a thousand page appropriations bill to a brass plate that cashes the check and does nothing. kicks a little back to the congress critter, pays the receptionist, then thanks a lot. oh, that was supposed to buy body armor, sorry.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Exactly right. If that isn't corruption, I don't know what is.

They would rather destroy this country than to help the needy. Pathetic assholes.

[EVDebs]

37. They can't decide if they want to turn the country into Argentina or...

Weimar Germany.

[Festivito]

38. Look at the YEARLY DEBT duuds. Add 25% yd to yearly income.

The deficit is an arbitrary number created by RepubliCONs.
Look at the actual rise in the debt.
Play that next to the actual fed gov income.
It's about 25% of income: debt added to the income and spent.

Now imagine your bud makes $10,000 a year.
BUT, Your bud borrows $2,500 a year on his credit cards.
He lives like he makes $12,500 a year.
Notice, he also is not paying the mortgage. WHOOPS!
In fact, he's not doing repairs to his house,
so the borrowing is worse than the money shows.

THINK!
In four years,...
He gives you the house and the debt.

REALIZE!
Everyone will blame you when you take over.
REALIZE!
Your plan was to pay the mortgage and keep up with repairs.
Then to help repay your parents in their retirement.
REALIZE!
He's telling everyone: "You don't have a plan."

[txaslftist]

46. excellent post.

great analogy

[bettyellen]

49. it's the bigger version of what they are trying to do with Social Security

Public Education, Medicaid, basically any program that helps individuals instead of corporations has got to go as far as they're concerned. Look at the Voucher Program and (seriously underfunded) No Child Left Behind. schools are set up to fail, and when they do, they are not fixed, they are closed. leaves the door open for vouchers to private schools.... look at the state university system falling apart, and the court cases invoving NYC vs NY State re: high schools . the government doesn't guarantee a good basic education to anyone anymore, and it's not a constitutional right.
be scared.

[mandyky]

39. I have felt this all along

GWB and the GOP _WANT_ to bankrupt the country and then they'll simply say to old folks, oops no money left for SS, and same with education and healthcare fundig.

[leftofthedial]

40. gonna drown the gummint in a bathtub

[northerdar]

41. Sometimes I think that these guys in the WH and Congress are

really the Nazis who lost in WWII...They are acting their revenge. They want to kill America through the econonmy. They do not care if they sell out America to China and India. Their elite /big businesses are making profits. Jobs are being lost in America.leaving young people and not so young people with little choices. The miltary service is pushed. The elites get their military protection served by the poor masses and can send these poor soldiers overseas to fight for the big international corporations' interests.

I was so annoyed that my Sears account card is now controlled by JP Morgan, one of the biggest financers of Hitler and Mussolini in the 30s. I am thinking of cancelling it.



It's a coup and the Bush administration is trying to keep their power. What is up their sleeves this 2006. They are criminal and do not care about shedding blood, as long as it is not theirs.


Sometimes I wish there could be an ending like in the booK "IN DEBT'S HONOR" by Tom Clancy.
It would be nice to start again on a new clean slate. But that was fiction.
What would Ghandi do? What would other great late world leaders do? I would like to see a peaceful change.

[Ksec]

42. Starve the beast

Its pretty well known that these fks will stop at nothing to screw the regular Joe while building stadiums and investing YOUR money in other corporate welfare scams.

[Neil Lisst]

48. You are dead on. Running up the deficit is a way to attack social ...

spending. Reagan did it, Daddy Bush did it, and now Junior is doing it. They use deficit spending to put downward pressure on the budget, while increasing the percentage of federal revenues committed to debt service.

[Yollam]

50. Jesus I thought this was a matter of common knowledge.

Thank you for posting this in case anybody hadn't figured this out already - back during the REAGAN ADMINISTRATION...


:mad:


(Seriously - thanks for posting this. I'm just frustrated that there are still people who don't understand obvious things like this, or the fact that republicans couldn't care less about gays or abortion - it's all just a tool for manipulating religious zombies into voting for them every year.)

[tk2kewl]

56. indeed... it amazes me that so few people understand this... and it amazes

me even more that no politician points this out. it isn't all that hard to understand.


:kick: K&R

[cosmicdot]

58. search "economic treason"

destroying our country economically, as well as, constitutionally/politically

what's shameful are the Democrats who have helped to enable this economic agenda since 2001, i.e.,
Dianne Feinstein (and, there were others) 2001 vote for the agenda kick-off tax cut http://feinstein.senate.gov/releases01/tax_cut_reconciliation.html; Biden re the Bankruptcy law changes, etc.

We need to de-corporatize our government and those elected to govern/represent us. They mostly all but a few are beholden to their corporate masters and/or portfolios.

[Usrename]

59. Yes, I agree with everything you say.

To blindly blame "them" is not constructive to any real solution. Complicity by others in the debacle doesn't absolve anyone who is responsible, but it must be acnowledged to move forward. The Republicans, by this I mean the general public who vote wrong, are not the only ones who are guilty. Time to stand up for the truth.
:toast: