Hackett was 20 points behind in the polls

[OzarkDem]

He was losing support among Dem voters, only 20% of them supported him, down quite a bit from polls a few months before. Once he got out on the campaign trail and began speaking to Dems, they saw how "green" he was and how little he knew about issues other than Iraq.

He was going to lose the primary, its almost impossible to come from that far behind and win.

That's the reality of the situation, folks. Ohio voters were speaking already and they didn't think Hackett was ready. Better that he pull out of the senate race now and run in OH-2, where he's been given encouragement and support to run and where he stands a much better chance of winning.

Ohio voters are notorious for only voting for experienced candidates in senate races. Most people have to run 2 or 3 times for a senate seat before they win. John Glenn was the only exception and Paul Hackett was not of the same caliber as Glenn.

[Coexist]

1. Do you have a link for that number

not that I don't believe you, but I would like to see that poll.

[OzarkDem]

2. Here

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/12/12/brown_leads_hackett_in_senate_primary.html

[atreides1]

3. Kind of lacking

All it provides are percentages, but it doesn't show how many people were polled. Also, this poll was conducted back in December, is there one that is a little more current?

[speedoo]

5. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the Dem leadership.

But Hackett seems to be too thin-skinned on this issue. He is really just a beginner in politics, and he needs to realize that the give and take is something he has to deal with.

He's not doing anybody any good with his current stance on this. Except the rethugs.

[Guaranteed]

7. Wow, a two-month-old internal poll- of Democrats.

There's some dispositive information.

Any way you can guarantee me that Brown will win the Senate seat?

[OzarkDem]

12. Big surprise

the only people who get to vote for Dem candidates in the primaries are, guess what, Dems!

You can't vote in a primary in Ohio without having declared a party affiliation and you can't change affiliation on the day of the election.

If Hackett wanted to win, he had to win with Dems first - that wasn't going to happen. Better he cut his losses and pull out of the race than lose.

[Guaranteed]

17. No, Hackett was going to kick the crap out of Brown.

I have a three-month-old internal poll to prove it.

I think Brown should just bow out. It's for the benefit of the whole party. Especially since he's clearly too liberal for Ohio, and, as a career politician, people don't trust him.

People LIKE Hackett, especially Democrats. Democrats are sick of seeing the same old crap from DC- and so are the moderate Repukes.

[EFerrari]

29. Dianne Feldmann helped Donna Brazile

whitewash Ohio. Brazile's report would have been laughable if it wasn't nauseating.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/eday/dnc030305pr.html

So, is the Feldman group, who did this poll, DLC?

[MercutioATC]

19. Here's another poll....one that shows Hackett ahead.

http://www.buckeyesenateblog.com/polls/

Remember something called cross-party appeal???

[onenote]

26. remember something called "internet polls"

Reliable as mud.

onenote

[MercutioATC]

31. At least it's a registered voter poll, not a Dem poll...

What does a primary poll prove? So Brown was ahead (10 months before the election). If that remained true, he'd win the primary and the issue would be moot. If Hackett won the primary, however, we'd have a candidate with much greater appeal to the general election voter.

Brown's a career politician. Of COURSE he polls better in his own party three months into the election...

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

33. Is mud more or less realiable than the DLC?

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/eday/dnc030305pr.html

:)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. Cross party appeal is worthless in a primary.

And if he thought the smear machine was full-on in his race against Schmidt, he is only kidding himself. They took that seat for granted and they would not do the same for a Senate seat. This is not a fight for novices.

[MercutioATC]

43. Yes, but I thought we were trying to win the general election...

If Brown won the primary, so be it. If Hackett won, he's doing much better in cross-party polls (which, in Ohio, is what we need to win the general).

[mattclearing]

4. Another interesting tidbit for the people losing their minds over this:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/14/0135/82714

To be clear -- Hackett didn't stand a chance. He had a tenth of Brown's money, and that was before party people allegedly tried to stop Hackett's donors from giving. His field operation in the special election was literally put together and implemented by Dan Lucas. Who is Dan Lucas? Sherrod Brown's campaign manager. Hackett's netroots effort in the special election was put together by Tim Tagaris. And while Tim is now at the DNC, he helped put together Brown's netroots operation.

So it was Brown's people who helped put together the nuts and bolts of Hackett's special election campaign, and they were now working for their boss -- Sherrod Brown.

To be further clear, Brown announced his candidacy before Hackett did. Yes, Reid and Schumer were urging Hackett to run, but he wouldn't commit to running. Labor Day, the traditional announcement day for most candidates, came and went with Hackett refusing to say what his plans were. So after waiting and waiting and waiting, Brown essentially said "fuck it" and got in. It was only after news of Brown's impending announcement were leaked that Hackett decided to commit to the race.

[speedoo]

8. Well, that certainly puts a very different light on things, if true.

Thanks for posting.

C'mon Paul, grow up a little.

[OzarkDem]

15. Its true

no candidate helped Hackett more in the special election than Brown. But even he knew Hackett wasn't ready for the Senate race.

[robbedvoter]

10. Kos just got in this as he did in dean vs Clark in 2004

Does not make his info true now - as they weren't then either.
Check this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x411952

[mattclearing]

14. Perhaps...

...but I can't see Hackett as a Senator yet, and I think it's a little early for him to be angling for the senate.

He could win that Congress seat because Schmidt's attacks on Murtha made her extremely vulnerable to a pro-troops Hackett campaign.

But Hackett is a bit hot-headed for Senate. It would be cool to have someone like him in there, but I can't see him getting past the actual voters.

[robbedvoter]

18. "hot headed"=speaks for us. Milktoast is better - Lieberman, Bayh

No wonder Democrats endorse W's spying on us - it's just them....not being hotheaded. Thanks for the lesson....

[mattclearing]

21. It's just my opinion.

And nice try equating my thinking Hackett is hot-headed with some kind of respect for Lieberman or Bayh.

Pretty insulting, and totally off the mark.

[sui generis]

32. real color and charisma work for me

no more snowboarding Ents, please.

[mattclearing]

41. Funny, yes.

Snowboarding Ents win primaries, though, as you saw in '04. :D

[MercutioATC]

23. That's not quite the way it happened...

Here's Hackett's announcement (on 10/03)

http://www.hackettforohio.com/newsroom/62/hackett-to-challenge-dewine

Here's Brown's (on 10/06)

http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15346135&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46371&rfi=6

[mattclearing]

25. Thanks. You know, now that you mention it, I remember this as well.

Brown did announce second, after seemingly having backed out.

[MercutioATC]

28. Exactly. Brown's the candidate now. We don't need to fudge facts.

It really doesn't matter any more, but Brown announced AFTER Hackett.

[msongs]

27. ONLY hackett is responsible for his quitting the race - -

he chose to quit, he could have stayed in. it was HIS decision and blaming others for "pressure" shows
the core his of his character.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Kukesa]

30. Umm . . . according to Wikipedia, that's not quite true.

Brown announced during the summer that he Would NOT run:

"Senate campaign
In the summer of 2005, Brown announced he would not run for the United States Senate seat held by Republican Mike DeWine. <1> That fall, however, Brown reconsidered his decision to enter the ring. <2> This announcement came shortly after Democrat Paul Hackett also stated that he would soon announce his candidacy. Within Ohio, Brown's decades of involvement in Ohio politics, including his years in statewide office, have given him high name recognition amongst Ohioans and a considerable fundraising advantage. In addition to his Senate campaign, Brown also helped to support Reform Ohio Now to promote several state jurisdictional changes on the ballot in November 2005."


More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherrod_Brown

[mattclearing]

40. Yes, I've acknowledged that above.

Thanks for reminding me of this. Not sure who Kos' fact-checker is, but he needs to wake up.

[Rowdyboy]

6. Actually, you're more correct than you know.....

1974 was John Glenn's 3rd attempt to win an Ohio senate seat. He withdrew from the primary in 1966 (I think he fell and injured himself in the bathroom) and then Metzenbaum beat him in 1970.

http://www.johnglennhome.org/john_glenn.shtml

"John Glenn, the pilot and hero, soon found NASA's plans for him did not include another flight assignment. While he continued to serve as an advisor to NASA until 1964, his interests increasingly turned to public affairs. Encouraged by Bobby Kennedy to seek public office, Glenn retired from the Marine Corps as a colonel the following year to run for the United States Senate.

He entered the Ohio Democratic primary challenging the incumbent Democratic Sen. Stephen M. Young. An accident forced him to leave the race early in the campaign and to put his political career on hold. After recovery from the accident, Glenn joined Royal Crown Cola as vice president and then president. Still interested in public service, Glenn again ran for the senate. His opponent, Howard Metzenbaum, defeated him in the 1970 primaries. Four years later, Glenn made a third run for the senate. This time he was successful, easily winning over his Republican opponent, former Cleveland Mayor Ralph J. Perk."

[OzarkDem]

16. Thanks for the correction, my bad

I wasn't living in Ohio back then. But I do know its a hard and fast rule in Ohio - the bar for the US Senate in this state is very, very high.

[Rowdyboy]

20. Hell, I'm so damned old I remember when it all happened.....

As a kid in the '60's, all astronauts were my heros and I followed Glenn religiously.

I still tear up when I remember Gus Grissom's tragic death from a capsule fire about that same time. He was my very favorite of the bunch.

[Dhalgren]

9. So what? So Hackett was behind Brown in a poll in December.

What is the problem with letting the voters pick which Democrat they would prefer? It's a long time between now and November, polls change. The bottom line is that the national party decided what was good for Ohio, because they feel like they know what is best for the peasants. There is no excuse, in a democracy, for thwarting the people's chance to cast their vote. If Ohio wanted Brown over Hackett then the voters would have said so - now, they get no choice...

[Guaranteed]

11. In a PRIMARY poll.

In a G.E., you want Hackett, not Brown.

[Kukesa]

24. Exactly! The national party dictated the way we ran the Kerry

campaign, too -- see what happened. Yes, we Buckeyes deserved better; we should have had a chance to vote.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Eye On The Prize

As a former contributor to Paul Hackett, I'm sorry to see him drop out and wish he'd reconsider about running in the 2nd, but if not that, good luck to him on wherever life takes him.

My bottom line here was that despite the valiant fight he fought, Hackett didn't win that race and that would have made all the difference in the world. He would have had a stronger power base and name to work off of. Sherrod has run and won elections, he's worked hard for this chance and deserves his shot. I came to this conclusion months ago after looking closely at the race and how Hackett, who I do admire for stepping forward, I can see how Brown is the best choice for knocking off DeWine.

One caveat...and that's the problems I've seen with the DCCC in several instances now. Besides this situation, there's also the ham-handed way Rahm Emanuel has been handling things in Illinois 6th...the Tammy Duckworth situation where he forced Christine Cegalis out of the race. Ironically, in that case, he backed the Iraqi vet with no experience over the local with an existing campaign operation.

I can understand all the angst by many here, but, there are plenty of other fish to fry and plenty of other races that need attention. There's not a DU'er out there that isn't in or near a district where a Repugnican needs to be beaten. That's where the focus needs to be.

[Dhalgren]

37. What I don't understand is why the Democratic Party Leadership

(gag) feels that it needs to "force" anyone out of the race. Why not let the primaries decide who the candidate will be? This is the opposite of 'grassroots' politics, this is the 'good ole boy', 'backroom' can of politics that just will not work with todays Democratic activists. If the Democratic Party loses its grassroots base it is finished - dry leaf...

[KharmaTrain]

39. It's Money...And Interest

Look at the fighting going on here. Lots of hurt feelings. Hopefully most are tranistory, but still people are bent out of shape. Now take this on the fundraising level...and right now this is where the game is being played. To use a bad analogy "no bucks, no Buck Rogers".

Here's the bottom line...each House seat will cost a minimum of $1.5 million to contest (many...especially in larger markets will be far higher) and each Senate seat could cost upwards of $50 million. That money doesn't show up from nowhere and the Democrats, without the ability to offer the perks and pork Repugnicans do, have to rely on "good ole boy" network to raise that kind of cash.

The way to break that game is to establish some real campaign reform...not just finance, but the entire system that has turned the political system into one non-stop campaign...and has fostered an entire industry of consultants, lobbyists and others who feed off this non-stop large trough of money. In the meantime, you deal with the cards you're dealt and make the most with what you have.

The grassroots aren't finished, just not in a position right now to effect the change many out here think they can...or that the change can come fast enough. When you start winning elections...that's when you start getting noticed...not the other way around.

[ColonelTom]

22. Interesting stuff. I have mixed feelings.

I'm very sad to see Hackett leave politics (or, more likely, the Democratic Party); he was a rising star, and had the "it" factor. But he was very green, and I think he would have struggled mightily in the Democratic primary even without the monetary pressure from the party.

It's a business decision by the party, plain and simple. They're willing to alienate Hackett and some of his supporters to have a more experienced candidate for the Senate seat. I hope the party is right.

I give Hackett all the credit in the world, though, for his great run against Jean Schmidt, and his willingness to jump right back into serving his country after returning from Iraq. Hopefully he'll reconsider his run in OH-2, because he'd win it this time.

[liam_laddie]

38. overheard comments in OH-2

The 'thuglikan primary will be bloody, with anecdotal predictions that Bob McEwan will
take out Schmidt, perhaps handily. Even heard that one Tom Niehaus, who didn't run
in their May '05 primary, would defeat Schmidt. I believe she's burnt toast.
At this time, there are several worthy Dems running in the OH-2 Dem primary.
If the ES&S tabulators hereabout aren't already rigged, I think Dems have a shot at this
seat in November, as well as many others around the country.

[ColonelTom]

42. Good to hear!

Heck, even if the Dems lose, getting Schmidt out of there is a victory for civility and decency in politics.

[Toucano]

34. The herd of candidates should be culled at the voting polls

not the telephone polls.

Voters should have a choice in every election.

Hackett could have lost the primary and returned to run for county commissioner or something to season him up. But instead - party leaders undermine his campaign, sour him completely, and he caves to pressure.

It's a loss for the party, a loss for Hackett and a loss for voters.

[zbdent]

36. Who sponsored the polls . . . InfoCision in Bath Ohio

is extremely RED . . . had a big Bush/Cheney 04 sign on their grounds during the 04 season . . . (plus, there was plenty of news reports about how they were doing polling for Repukes in Ohio)

[MadHound]

44. It is the Feldman poll that they're using!

Diane Feldman, for your information, came under some heavy heat for her inaccurate polling methods during the '04 Kerry campaign. It is also known that she and her company, Feldman Group Inc, are seriously connected to the DLC wing of the party, and her methodology has been suspect on more than one occaission.

Independent polls indicated that Hackett would have beaten DeWine handily, so why not let Brown and Hackett duke it out in the primaries? That is, after all, what primaries are all about. Instead, the Democratic leadership resorts to heavy handed tactics and skewed polling in order to force Hackett out of the race. Not good form, and a real black eye for the party. The Dems have been screaming for new blood in the party for years, and when they finally get it, they turn around and drive the new blood away for another party hack. Sorry, but this isn't right, and it is these kinds of tactics that continue to lose ground for the Democratic party. People in this country, in this party want change, real change that Hackett provided. But the party feels that it can't have that on stomps it into the ground. Not a real smart move friend, and a great way to further alienate voters.