CNN BREAKING: Whittington back in ICU

[trof]

Details as I hear them.

[maddezmom]

1. had a minor heart attack is stable now

bird shot moved into his heart

[maddezmom]

4. will be hospital another 7 days

[maddezmom]

11. picked up irregular hearbeat this am and moved in back to ICU

[npincus]

9. For REAL? "Bird Shot moved into his heart?

did that happen? Jeez..

[maddezmom]

18. that's what they are saying...got me I'm no Dr.

[npincus]

39. it makes that 3-hour delay to bring him to a hospital more significant,

doesn't it?

[maddezmom]

54. and why did the hosptial have to confer with the WH dr's

is the doctor on now part of cheney's propaganda team. He sure seems upbeat, hope it's for good reason.

[FearofFutility]

53. My understanding is that they knew it was in his heart

from the start, but migrated as scar tissue had not yet formed around it.

Explains why he was originally admitted to the ICU.

[FreedomAngel82]

91. It does

[MADem]

160. Man, I predicted this!

It just seemed fishy to me that a guy who was awww, just peppered with a bit of bird shot, no big deal, happens all the time, is kept first, in ICU-TRAUMA, and second, for DAYS. Waaay longer than say, a difficult birth! Also, the fact that they sent him by ambulance to one hospital, and then AIRLIFTED him to a second, sister facility, seemed a bit curious to me as well.

It stunk from the start....and now the White House is starting to wonder if their "humor offensive" (and wow, ain't that quite the phrase under the circumstances) has backfired--Scotty with his orange TX Longhorns/Duck, Dick Cheney Is in the House tie, and the lame attempts at jokes that was advised yesterday by the clowns at Faux news....

When you are the one that screws up, it ain't wise to start wisecracking too soon. You gotta be low key, a bit sad, a bit embarrassed, and not too offended when someone ELSE makes jokes at your expense. In short, ya just gotta eat it.

You can only do the self-deprecating humor routine through a someone longer lens. But hey, once again, the clowns of the emperor are TONE DEAF!

[FearofFutility]

196. I originally thought he was airlifted and went to the ICU simply

because he has money and the shooter was the VP. As time went on, I started to suspect that this guy was a lot sicker than they were letting on.

[CAcyclist]

161. I'm not a real doctor, just a veterinarian, but

bird shot doesn't migrate. The only way for that to happen is to get a piece shot into his aorta or vena cava and have it move that way in the bloodstream, but that seems hardly likely - you'd be dealing with a massive bleed from the vessel wall wound that would need surgery to repair.

Plus, if it caused an arrythmia leading to a heart attack, that means it hit the part of the heart that contains the muscle fibers that conduct electrical impulses. A fine wire could migrate over time but an irregular piece of lead? I don't think so.

No, I'll bet that bird shot hit his heart the same time all the other birdshot hit his body.

[MADem]

165. To me, frankly, a vet IS a REAL DOCTOR

They are generally very kind people, not puffed up, and sure as hell explain things better'n some MDs I've known--especially in the UK, where getting a doctor to explain something is not too easy (you have to use the "command voice" and intimidate them, otherwise they won't tell ya shit, in my half dozen or so experiences). By contrast, the vets over there were wonderful, as they are over here as well.

What I heard on NPR (which is migrating to the right, like that birdshot, maybe???) was that it was in the muscle tissue butt up against the heart, which caused atrial fibrillation (????) or something along those lines...is that even close, ya think?

[CAcyclist]

175. Well, Thank you!

The birdshot has to be in the heart muscle itself -the heart itself is a muscle - there's no other muscle surrounding the heart - the lungs surround the heart. The closest other muscle is the diaphragm.


If they mean the chest muscles on the outside of the chest, that would have to be some pretty severe trauma - like the kind you get with a really well-placed , really really hard blow - that would have to be blunt trauma - it just doesn't make sense to me. It seems a lot more likely and simpler for the birdshot to have lodged in the heart from the first.

[MADem]

176. Hmmm, so it was either lying right up on top of the tissue, or

was lodged in it....it DOES explain all that ICU time, dunnit!

[Fovea]

209. I agree

show me how a #8 shot just migrated into a significantly large vascular structure (without causing an occlusion somewhere distal to the heart) and then injures his SA node... as you say, not without causing a serious mess.

Whew this smells to high heaven.

[txindy]

17. Bird shot moved into his heart?! OMG!!

There goes the "superficial" wounding story. For now, at least. They'll ramp it up again, later.

[maddezmom]

26. will not remove the bird shot

because they aren't sure where it is? I swear that's what he said..they don't know where it is.

[txindy]

It's penetrated far enough to be able to move into his heart, though.

So much for "superficial" and "no big deal." Good Lord. I hope he makes it. I want him around for many years to come. The truth will out, esp. if the victim makes it, recovers, and reflects on all that's happened.

[Ganja Ninja]

48. or it just penetrated all the way to his heart. n/t

[txindy]

57. Ouch. Good point. I didn't consider that. Again, ouch.

With no snarkiness intended, either. It pains me to think of that happening.

[MadisonProgressive]

83. And I'd be willing to bet he had a good jacket on too!

Yeah, that 30 yards is starting to look like 30 inches!

[txindy]

87. It was COLD outside that evening! A biting cold.

We had a wicked wind blowing down from the north on Saturday. It felt like it was freezing outside even though it wasn't. Yes, they all had on substantial clothing, if only for the weather. Add hunting attire to that and I'm sure they were well-protected.

It certainly is looking as if he was hit much closer than reported. Not 30 yards, at any rate.

[Sequoia]

121. Wonder why he wanted him gone.

[txindy]

129. Oh, I think it was an accident.

I think they're covering up the distance between Darth and the victim, as well as the circumstances surrounding Elmer Fudd's firing of the gun. Maybe he was drunk. Maybe he was just careless. Maybe both. :shrug:

[MADem]

162. Ya gotta wonder if the delay was to try to get someone else to take the

blame...??????

And since they are all rich, and understand LIABILITY, they wouldn't play, not even for the Vee Pee. And hell, when the victim is a lawyer, liability is a real issue!

I also would like to know who was where, and when--because it seems to me that if their hostess, as twilight approaches, is settin' in a CAR, and this guy, who is as tall or taller than Dick, gets shot in the chest and was supposedly in a lower area with lotsa grass and the settin' sun behind him, you just gotta wonder how much she saw...really saw, that is.

[ClintonTyree]

98. At 30 yds. that "quail" would have to have been........

flying along the ground for Cheney to shoot this guy. That's complete bullshit. Quail fly up and out, and very quickly. They don't flit along by the ground.
I can tell you exactly what happened. The guy was walking up from behind after retrieving his bird, just as it's said. Cheney heard what he THOUGHT was a bird flushing behind him, turned and fired without first acquiring a target. Perhaps his gun even went off by mistake. Cheney had his finger on the trigger, just turned and the gun went off. But the "official" story is complete bullshit. Cheney's gun would have been pointed up into the air, not at face a chest level, if he was firing at a bird. This is all complete bullshit, but of course we'll never know the truth because the "truth and honesty" regime won't allow it.

[thereismore]

144. The quail they were shooting were bread in captivity (to be shot)

and probably could not fly. It is possible that the bird did a little flight like a canary released from a cage and then tired out and went down. It could have been an accident. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy though.

[lavenderdiva]

120. if you read the original police report on Smoking Gun,

it shows that both Cheney and Whittington had on orange safety jackets. So much for bright colors making you safe, huh?

link: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0213061cheney1.html

[PurpleChez]

151. Maybe cheney's robotic vision isn't sensitive to blaze orange.

[President Kerry]

198. He's a lawyer.

If it were anybody else shooting him he'd sue them for all they're worth for criminal negligence. But not Darth, the vice-emperor himself, who is perfect. I'm surprised the stupid guy isn't outright admitting fault for "running into the line of fire".

[hwmnbn]

50. Doesn't birdshot show up on X-rays?

WTF is going on here? I'm no doctor either, but did the bird shot make it's way to the heart via the bloodstream? Who are they kidding?

If the guy was shot in the face and chest and in ICU, you'd think this bit of information would be relevant.

[FearofFutility]

63. I understood the MD to say they knew the birdshot was

there from the beginning. Explains why he was in ICU.

[Stewie]

109. Quail shot is smaller than a pinhead, very hard to see.

Even if it did show up, you'd have to go over the entire x-ray with a magnifying glass to catch it all.

[tabasco]

188. No, it's not, and no, you wouldn't.

http://www.gunshop.com/shotsize.htm

[CAcyclist]

174. Absolutely it shows up on xrays nt

[Canuckistanian]

172. Gee if only there were some kind of machine to look inside the body

Someone could make a few thousand bucks!

[CAcyclist]

177. Actually, it's really not that easy to find

You'd do more damage tearing up the muscle to find the bits and they are inert after the shooting incident. They aren't going to cause lead poisoning because there's no corrosive elements in muscle to break the metal down like there is in the stomach.

I once did surgery to fix the femur on a dog that got its leg shattered by a bullet. The xrays showed lots pieces of lead - I did the repair and removed some damaged tissue and pieces of bone but only actually saw a little bit of bullet material, but when I took the xrays afterward, there was very little lead shot remaining and all the big pieces were gone.

[Canuckistanian]

184. I thought there were instuments that could find metal fragments

Sort of like little metal detectors. Am I wrong?

I realize that finding them and removing them are two different stories.

[Surya Gayatri]

59. This is just what I feared when they reported

"chest wounds". Those pellets can penetrate pretty far and in a 78-year-old you can't just go in there an remove them. SG

[lebkuchen]

86. "Minor" heart attack?

The guy is 6 years past life-expectancy, though perhaps not for a multi-millionaire.

Just how much birdshot is in this 78 year old man?

[FreedomAngel82]

95. He might've had good health though

That's how my grandfather was. He was really healthy and looked ten years younger than what he was. :shrug:

[lebkuchen]

104. Having "under 100" pellets in one's body will be the test of endurance

If, sadly, he doesn't make it, I suppose we'll be dependent on Ms. Armstrong's discretion to inform the rest of the nation.

[pokercat999]

145. Bet the quail don't give a damn if he "makes it". Now

he's figuring out more and more just how those quail feel. I love justice. Hmmmmm seems I remember hearing something about some sowing/reaping thingy.

[lebkuchen]

154. He should be considering how our troops feel

about wounding/killing innocent people. Maybe Cheney will qualify for a civilian form of PTSD, the kind he's made less available to our soldiers in need of therapy.

[Higans]

185. If he dies, is it NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE???

[President Kerry]

199. or involuntary manslaughter.

[f-bush]

203. If he dies...look out Dickhead!

[ClintonTyree]

103. I'm guessing, a bunch.......

sounds like Cheney shot him at pretty close range, not the "30 yards" they're officially reporting. I'm willing to bet he was no more than 10 yards from Cheney when he was shot. This is no "minor accident" here. This guy absorbed just about the entire load of buckshot, I'll wager.

[lebkuchen]

110. I wonder how much birdshot is in one round.

That's probably been reported a lot...I don't watch the news anymore.

Cheney wasn't fit to be VP to begin with, even less so after last Saturday. Bush will be looking for a replacement, is my guess.

[txindy]

138. Hundreds of pellets. I read over 300.

The doctors yesterday said that Whittington had over 100 remaining in him. Not good.

[lebkuchen]

153. 300 pellets in one round??

Just how many rounds did Cheney get off into this guy?

[Roland99]

115. Here's the Yahoo article. Vote it up!!! >>>>>>>>>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060214/ap_on_re_us/cheney_whittington

[Higans]

183. If he dies, is it NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE???

[Wheezy]

2. Birdshot lodged in heart

had a minor heart attack. 7 more days in the hospital?

[Connie_Corleone]

They're just now reporting this? I've been looking all morning

for this news, cuz I only heard it on the radio around 10:00 am.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

3. On Fox, ...had minor heart attack..

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

7. Live hospital briefing on fox now

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

69. Fox summation. "Some my say the situation has changed in the

condition....spin, spin, spin

[IsItJustMe]

149. What intelligent person watches Fox?

[Mnemosyne]

192. Some here monitor faux news for fun and to catch

what their spin is going to be on the lies of the WH. Don't be so rude please.

Welcome to DU.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

14. Doctor: We picked up irregular heartbeat this morning...FOX

[bettyellen]

5. birdshot migrated into heart, caused arterial fib: heart attack...

[bettyellen]

15. they consulted with WH doctors before this press conference....

why would they need to do that?

[bettyellen]

25. why the hell are they consulting with WH docs on treatment? ????

that's messed up, my god they'll freeze this guy if the wh asks em to.

[bettyellen]

35. they say because they are the original docs, they "are comfortable

consulting with them".
but why would they need to?

[FearofFutility]

46. My reaction too!

Bizarre!

[FreedomAngel82]

100. To warn Cheney?

[Deep13]

85. "migrated into heart" That's what I thought.

He got hit in an vein and it traveled to the heart. I shot to the heart through his chest would have bled-out pretty quickly.

[trof]

6. "Minor" heart attack caused by birdshot lodged in heart.

Atrial fibulation?
Checking his vitals at 6:30 a.m. they picked up an irregular heartbeat.

[debbierlus]

66. Oh my GOD!

That is terrible.

[Wheezy]

8. it's the doctors doing a press conference.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

And they are getting "peppered" too.

[libnnc]

Ho-lee fuck!

what's gonna happen next?

[LizW]

10. No way!!!!

A heart attack!!!!

I'll bet Cheney is sweating bullets.

:evilgrin:

[lady lib]

47. No pun intended? :)

I'm sure Cheney wishes that Whittington could sweat bullets!

[Sparkly]

12. Wow, it's true!!!

Watching CNN now... Wonder why it's taken so long for this to go up on the net??

[ClintonTyree]

113. Why has anything about this event taken so long?

Because the White House WANTS it to, that's why. If they had their way we'd know nothing about this at all. That's why it wasn't reported for 24 hours, they were hoping it could all be hushed up but the guy was too seriously injured for that. This whole thing stinks to high heaven. We're NOT being told the truth, that's for sure.

[MADem]

168. They wanted it to hit AFTER Scotty the Tub's presser today, that's why

Can you imagine what that presser would have been like had this been KNOWN??? As it was, the shit was flying thick and fast with questions about this, and Scotty was desperately trying to tamp it down....

[0007]

13. Wonder if Whittington is getting ready to croak? Is this the second

or third time back in intensive care unit.

[hexola]

16. I think he's already dead...

this all a bluff - so he can die of "complications"

[TexasLady]

24. wow never thought of that

ohhh man, not good..

the person on cnn looks awfully nervous..

[FreedomAngel82]

102. So why would they look nervous?

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

31. I dunno...but he is not being rolled out before the cameras, ...

That's for sure.

Guess he got popped worse than we have been told.

[Chimichurri]

41. CNN isn't reporting that. This : Cheney cleared in hunting accident

is their current headline under politics.

I guess they don't think the VP of the USA shooting a man in the face, leaving him in the ICU for days is news.


I wouldn't doubt he's dead or dying and have them blame it on complications. This cabal is capable of anything.

[jobycom]

82. That thought crossed my mind, too. Earlier today I almost posted

that he was going to die in ICU of "complications."

WHo knows what the truth is. Aside from Cheney.

[cliss]

88. Me too, Hex.

This has all the markings of a coverup. Watch them spin like crazy. They'll drag it out, as long as they can.

But they can't hide the truth forever.

[jsamuel]

137. I swear to God I thought the same thing. Thought maybe he would have a "he

art attack in the hospital and die."

I thought it and didn't post it. That way, it wasn't Cheney's fault. The daughter talking is the only thing that stopped me from posting it.

(thought it yesterday)

[FatDave]

167. Doesn't matter, it's still Cheney's fault

Whether the guy died immediately or dies later of complications, it's still Cheney's fault. Those complications arose from being shot by the VP after all. If Whittington ends up dead, Cheney should be in a world of shit. Not saying he will be, but he definitely should be.

[soup]

140. yep.

I think it's a good possibility, too. Didn't really want to go there, but couldn't help it.

[Kahuna]

197. I think he is much worse than they are saying. I've thought that

since the beginning.

[myrna minx]

19. This is terrible.

I wonder how FOX is going to make light if this now?

[xultar]

20. Someone posted this way earlier today.

[txindy]

29. Yeah, but not the details. CNN finally decided to announce some news, tho.

That's always unexpected. ;)

[xultar]

67. Yeah, cnn and news. who'da thunk with all the complicit bs spewing.

[0007]

72. The doctor was getting kind of nasty, eh?

[txindy]

90. "Joking" patient with "superficial" wounds had this happen on his watch

I think he's figured out who is going to take the blame should Whittington not survive. And it ain't Darth.

[goodhue]

21. yikes

Would they have to "clear" Cheney all over again if Whittington passed away?

[Beausoir]

22. Peppered????? All the way to his heart?

Fucking liars.

[Garbo 2004]

60. Of course they were lying. He didn't spend time in the ICU because he was

just "peppered" with pellets you could take out with a tweezer, which is the impression they were trying to give with the Armstrong woman making light of the whole thing. There was a reason the VP's office didn't want to touch it by providing any public announcements and let Armstrong do their lying for them, and this is it.

[Scout1071]

141. Let's not forget that he was "Life Flighted' to Corpus Christi.

They don't call in the life flight helicopter for a mere flesh wound.

[Wheezy]

23. Q. which chamber? Why can't you remove it?

A. not sure of location exactly. Risk of surgery is greater than leaving birdshot there.

[maddezmom]

32. that was the lamest answer ever

they don't know where it is? How can they be? Shows up on x-ray but doesn't pinpoint the position.

[FreedomAngel82]

108. That is weird

Wouldn't that be pretty clear?

[CAcyclist]

181. It's really not a lame answer - see my other post

It's even hard to find bullet fragments a lot larger than birdshot.

[Wheezy]

33. birdshot NOT in a chamber

this is a rare occurrance. consulting with other cardiologists from around the country.

the x-ray doesn't show the 3D exact location. Will monitor it to see if it moves.

[FlaGranny]

118. If birdshot was in a heart chamber, it

would migrate through the blood stream until it found an artery so small it could not squeeze through and then cause a blockage somewhere, usually in the lungs or brain, but could infarct in another location. So it is most likely NOT in a chamber.

[BattyDem]

27. Yet Cheney hasn't even offered a simple apology!

Unfuckingbelievable! :grr:

[SillyGoose]

38. That is what is really starting to make my blood boil.

No apology, just a 210 word statement about a hunting stamp. Crass, cold, callous bastard.

[YDogg]

56. And do you really think he whipped out his checkbook to pay for the stamp?

I'm guessing we paid for it. The poor taxpayers.

[go west young man]

170. Hell the poor bastard could probably barely afford the stamp after paying

$18,000 for his shotgun. Halliburtons only up 292% so obviously Cheneys strapped for cash.

[YDogg]

49. But are you really surprised?

I'm not. Seems pretty typical for this crowd.

[BattyDem]

74. No, I'm not really surprised, but ...

just as a public relations issue - wouldn't it be a good idea to offer an apology? This administration constantly claims the moral high-ground on honor, integrity and personal responsibility, yet the VP can't even say, "It was an accident ... I'm sorry." :wtf:

[FreedomAngel82]

111. They never say the word "sorry"

And they never will for anything.

[lavenderdiva]

132. 'Love is never having to say you're sorry'

isn't that what 'Love Story' would have us believe? Maybe Cheney just loves us too much to apologize. :sarcasm:

[hwmnbn]

146. Love means never having to say.....

"Put down that shotgun!"

[Elidor]

106. APOLOGY?!? Cheney thinks Whittington owes HIM an apology

For fucking up his shot.

[BattyDem]

147. LOL! That's sad ... funny, but sad.

:-)

[chalky]

169. Why would he apologize? It WAS Whittington's fault, after all.

:sarcasm:

[tanyev]

189. He did go visit the guy in the hospital before he left Texas.

But he certainly has not made a PUBLIC apology. That's because he doesn't think he owes the American public anything. We are here to serve HIM.

:grr:

[Mnemosyne]

194. The dick is waiting for an apology from Whittington for

getting in his way! :grr:

[Yavin4]

28. What Happens If He Dies

Then what?

[brainshrub]

Involuntary manslaughter, and the story ceases to be funny.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

"and the story ceases to be funny." It's not funny anymore now.

[brainshrub]

71. I thought it was funny until I found out how serious it was.

The first time I heard it, I thought the guy just got grazed by a few pellets and was taken to the hospital. It increasingly looks like the guy nearly had his head blown off.

[mwb970]

80. We got one day of funny.

Now it's as serious as a heart attack.

[ClintonTyree]

122. Not in this lifetime.........

Cheney would never be charged with anything. In fact, bush would probably give him the "Medal of Freedom" like he has with every other fuck-up in his administration. Cheney would walk away from this without any questions asked. Well, not without any questions asked, but you can bet there wouldn't be any questions answered.

[Nordmadr]

78. Not directed at you, but this is something I find irritating...

Cheney's gross negligence in this matter should be subject to criminal prosecution, and at the very least, investigation, REGARDLESS of whether the man dies or not. It does not change the action, just the result and charge.

If he was anyone but a higher up in this administration, his ass would have been breathalyzed, blood tested, and every ass clown there would have been immediately brought down for an interview with the local police department. So much for that no man is above the law bullshit.

Meanwhile they joke and play off ghow it was just a minor thing. Minor my ass. You don't get shot in the head, neck and chest at fairly close range and have it be a joking matter. I don't care if it was just bird shot. If it penetrates the skin, it can kill you. Not to mention the trauma for a person Whittington's age. People should be raising hell about this, but of course, most will not. The poor chap will have to die before anyone gets pissed.

Well, officer, I was driving my car, made that quick turn and didn't see the guy...guess what, that's still reckless, and still manslughter. Cheney was reckless, CLEARLY. Anytime you shoot someone like this, YOU ARE AT FAULT! Period.


Edit: I also find it odd, that if this is so minor and he was fine and dandy, how come no interviews? How come no family saying anything? How come no pictures? Because it is not minor and the family has been hushed!

Olafr

[ClintonTyree]

128. 100% correct in your assessment.....

but I'm betting the guy is already dead and this is an elaborate scheme to get Cheney off the hook. Something isn't adding up here, the "official story" is full of holes, no pun intended.

[lavenderdiva]

134. I was wondering this too...

if Whittington dies, will charges be brought against Cheney? and if so, what charges...

[f-bush]

205. Can you charge a sitting Vice President or do you have to...

impeach him first and then charge him?

[VaYallaDawg]

30. Oh what tangled webs we weave ....

[Sparkly]

34. FINALLY up on CNN website

http://www.cnn.com/

[kenny blankenship]

36. This guy may not die right away, but it sure looks like the coroner

can start filling in the cause of death when it eventually occurs (won't be too long either).

[Wordie]

37. Jeez...this thread needs recommendations, so people can know about this!

K&R

[txindy]

43. Agreed.

:kick: and rec'd.

[Sparkly]

40. "Less that 150-200" birdshot... ? nt

[maddezmom]

45. and the DR is sure that none of those will migrate

okay, whatever there Doc. :eyes:

[ClintonTyree]

133. That's pretty much a full load of bushshot.........

Cheney must have nailed this guy point blank. :eyes: The "official story" isn't adding up here, something is as fishy as all hell.

[morffin]

42. Can Darth Cheney be charged

with manslaughter?

I know the Bush Mafia is above the law....but in a fair world...would he be charged if the guy died...accident or no accident.

[YDogg]

65. Cheney ought to be charged if they guy dies ...

... but I'm guessing he won't even have the decency to resign unless charged.

[IsItJustMe]

152. If it happened to anyone else, they would be charged.

They would at least have an intense investigation regarging
the matter.  But as we know, these folks seem to be above and
beyond the law.  And why isn't the news media making these
points.   hmmmm

[Punkingal]

44. This is sad.

I feel sorry for this old guy and his family. Geez!

[MadisonProgressive]

51. 30 yards..... right.....

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

61. what do you think...20-30 feet, not yards. this is an outrage!

[Norquist Nemesis]

62. I'd heard/read 30 feet!?

As a football nut, I immediately put that into 10 yards on the field. This just keeps getting goofier.

[Sugar Smack]

52. And where the fuck's CHENEY right now?!?

:grr: :nuke:

WHERE THE HELL IS HE?

[hwmnbn]

68. Undisclosed secret location.......

Maybe at command central bunker.

[Sugar Smack]

101. Or at a cheap motel on the outskirts of Fargo,

where kindly cops are dragging him back in through the window he's trying to escape & cuffing him on the bed. I'm thinking of Jim Baker right now, for some odd reason.

[jane_pippin]

70. Being a Dick means never having to say you're sorry.

It also means you can run and hide after shooting a 78 year old guy in the face, apparently.

Come on, Dickster! Come out of your hidey-hole and at least publicly hang your head in shame. It's literally the least you can do--besides nothing, which you've already accomplished. Step it up, Dick.

[Sugar Smack]

107. Damn good subject line!

Yeah, come on out, cowboy. What could possibly go wrong? We've seen candid shots of the top of your head sneaking in & out of the WH, but really nothing else. What gives?

What an asshole.

[RagingInMiami]

55. So when does a "minor heart attack" lead to seven additonal days

in the hospital?

[maddezmom]

58. when the VP shoots you?

:shrug: Just hope this guy makes it out of the hospital.

[cynatnite]

76. With a pellet in the heart and atrial fib in addition...

seven days is expected.

[FearofFutility]

77. Because they need to continue to monitor him

to make sure the birdshot doesn't migrate further.

[FatDave]

164. I don't think any heart attack can be "minor" for a 78 year old man

That they would try to spin it like this is disgusting.

[lonestarnot]

171. Tink it is reported he has 50 50 chance of survival.

[Gregorian]

64. Now imagine you are in Iraq.

You've just been shot by a GI. 50 caliber to the leg. Nearly two decades of sanctions leave little help. Oh wait, you are being dragged to Abu Graib where you'll be tossed in a cell with no medical attention.
I don't know. These are the things I think about when my mind puts a perspective on it.

[bettyellen]

73. the ER doc was cracking up, he will not entertain the idea that this

will effect the patients health in any way. fraked out when someone raised the possibility of an infection. i guess that's what his colleagues at the WH told him
another long distance diagnosis, wow.

[txindy]

84. Well, now, really. Who would expect this to negatively impact the patient?

An elderly man with birdshot in his heart. Why would that hurt him? :sarcasm:

Yes, the cabal (including its doctors) believe we're all that stupid.

[Indy Lurker]

92. it wouldn't effect his health if he was already dead !! N/T

[DrRang]

148. Wouldn't the birdshot have blown tiny pieces of his clothing into

his body along with the shot? Stuff that would be in no way sterile? Course, they're probably pumping him full of antibiotics along with everything else.

[Tin Man]

75. Holy shit !!! K&R

[ClayZ]

79. Holy Buck Shot Batman!

The poor old man!..... The birds are having their revenge!

(Karma's Eye is on the Sparrow)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1215-07.htm
Published on Monday, December 15, 2003 by the New York Times
After Cheney's Private Hunt, Others Take Their Shots
by Elisabeth Bumiller

WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney's Christmas card arrived in the capital's mailboxes last week with this suddenly apt quotation from Benjamin Franklin: "And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"

Franklin made the remark at the 1787 Constitutional Convention to argue that because something as small as a sparrow's death comes to God's attention, clearly God has a voice in the affairs of men. Therefore, Franklin argued, a prayer should open the daily sessions held to write the founding document of the United States. (Franklin lost the argument, but his passage won a place in history.)

All of which brings us to Mr. Cheney's bird-hunting trip at the exclusive Rolling Rock Club in the hills of southwestern Pennsylvania last Monday, when he and nine others in his party shot some 400 out of 500 pen-raised pheasants released for the morning hunt. No one might have noticed the episode if The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette had not reported it, including the detail that the vice president had shot more than 70 of the ring-necked pheasants himself.

As a result, a lot of other people noticed the fallen birds: hunters who pursue birds in the wild, the Democratic presidential candidates and the Humane Society of the United States, which likened the shootings to the first day of the Iraq war.

<snip>

[november3rd]

112. I'm sorry

But anybody who does that is very disturbed, even if he is an "elected" high official. You can forgive a child swatting fireflies or blowing up a frog, but for a grown, educated, "civilized" man to slaughter 6 dozen ducks for "pleasure" is just too perverse.

No wonder the Defense Budget is increasing 7% this year while everything else gets cut. We got a psycho-killer on the loose.

[ClayZ]

125. BFEE = TWISTED, SICK, EVIL! n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

81. IF he dies, it will be his fault.

He was old and frail or something like that. Cheney will probably say Whit loaded his gun for him right before the shooting, too!

[lebkuchen]

94. I thought it was already the old guy's fault for not announcing presence

"as is protocol when hunting."

In Germany, if a pedestrian crosses a dark street at night, wearing black colors, not looking in either direction, and I hit him/her w/my car, it's my fault.

[bettyellen]

96. they can't find a single hunter to blame this guy, except for the shooter.

[lebkuchen]

99. That's good to know.

The media has some catching up and correcting to do in its reporting.

[Norquist Nemesis]

117. Well, there's the difference!

In Germany, if a pedestrian crosses a dark street at night, wearing black colors, not looking in either direction, and Cheney hits him/her w/a car, it's the pedestrian's fault

[lebkuchen]

127. You got me there~!

I was amazed that the media would toss blame at the victim. I know it bends over backward to protect the Bushies, but that tactic was coldblooded.

How must this man's family feel, that he is being blamed for being shot?

[seafan]

89. From the LA Times:

10:34 AM PST, February 14, 2006

Cheney Victim Has Minor Heart Attack After Birdshot Shifts
From Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- The man shot by Vice President Dick Cheney suffered a minor heart attack after birdshot moved into his heart, hospital officials said today, and was moved back to the intensive care unit for further treatment.

Texas attorney Harry Whittington was recovering and will be monitored for seven days to make sure more bird shot doesn't move to other organs or move to other part of his body, hospital officials said.


"However some of the bird shot appears to have moved and lodged into part of his heart in what we would say is a minor heart attack," said Peter Banko, administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial.

White House physicians who attended to Whittington at the scene after Cheney accidentally shot him were involved in the treatment, the officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-021406cheney_wr,0,3835919.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[bliss_eternal]

182. Shame on the Times--

I'm sorry but to me, a heart attack is a heart attack. I'm sure there are some that are less damaging than others in the grand scheme, but I don't like the way this is being minimized at all. That poor man could be dying, and they aren't going to tell the truth.

He's a human being, not just some guy that had the great misfortune of hunting with Cheney. This whole thing just stinks!

:puke::grr::mad:

[David Zephyr]

191. Please, it is the L.A. Tribune.

It is no longer the LA Times.

[bliss_eternal]

193. Thanks for the reminder--

shame on them, whatever their name is this week. ;)

93. I think anytime an elderly person has surgery

there is a big chance they can die. Their bodies are not capable of withstanding that much crisis.

[lebkuchen]

97. I find it incredible that the guy still has his eyes

No birdshot hit his eyes? That is amazing.

[im10ashus]

119. Were they wearing goggles at the time? n/t

[lebkuchen]

123. Having just gotten out of a car to take a shot?

I doubt it, but I don't know for sure.

[SupplyConcerns]

130. Um... it hit his eyes

The simplest explanation in this case, as I see it, is that he got pretty mutilated. That's why there haven't been any images of him after he got shot, and if he dies there never will be, if the White House gets their way.

[lebkuchen]

155. I haven't read that it hit his eyes. I read the opposite.

Talk about mixed messages. Nobody seems to know what is going on, similar to when Katrina hit the Gulf coast states. No, similar to when the WTC towers/Pentagon were attacked.

[SupplyConcerns]

190. The story is that it didn't hit his eyes

All I'm saying is that that is the kind of fact they would want to conceal from the public if at all possible because of its disturbing nature.

[KingFlorez]

105. This is horrible

What a great Vice President we have

[lebkuchen]

114. Our troops are admittedly wounding/killing innocent Iraqis every day.

Now Cheney can get a taste of what they have to live with for the rest of their lives.

[Botany]

116. So known facts

He is 78
He got shot in the face, neck, and chest
He is in an ICU
He has had a heart attack
He has birdshot in his heart.

unknowns
did he go into shock after being shot?
what distance was he from cheney when shot?
(the spread of the shot is pretty tight for it to be
30 yards)
what is his medical history?
why was he transferred from the small hospital
to the larger hospital?

I am afraid this about to become much worse.

[Pryderi]

124. It was reported @ 10am on Springer, why such a long delay?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x413170

[hexola]

126. Uh...WHY DIDNT SCOTTY MENTION THIS!!!

They had to have known!!!

This happened at 6:30 am!

[Norquist Nemesis]

142. AND consulted the WH according to the ER guy

Scotty was asked something about him during today's press conf. He gave and well-seasoned, heartfelt 'we hope and pray for him' just short of crocodile tears. But a heart attack? Nada.

[dave29]

131. Let me know when the feeding tube goes in.

Jesus Christ, what a world

[PhilipShore]

135. AP: Cheney victim suffers heart attack

Associated Press
Cheney victim suffers heart attack
February 14, 2006

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/victimcheney14.html

CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas-- The 78-year-old lawyer who was shot by Vice President Dick Cheney in a hunting accident has some bird shot lodged in his heart and he had "a minor heart attack" Tuesday morning, hospital officials said.

The victim, Harry Whittington, was immediately moved back to the intensive care unit for further treatment, said Peter Banko, the administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial in Texas.

[LeftNYC]

136. guess this isnt such a big joke for the white house anymore...nt

[progressivebydesign]

139. I called that one yesterday.. LODGED IN HIS HEART!!

I posted here that they mentioned, vaguely, that he had pellets that were not going to be removed, which I guessed to be in his heart... why else would they not remove them??? Cheney will walk, even tho he has probably killed the man. Things like that, done to a nearly-80 year old man, will probably be the end of the fellow, maybe not this week... but usually starts the decline. He should have chosen his friends more wisely... sucks to have all the money and influence, and still get shot by the VP of the USA.

[bear425]

157. Even a healthy person who is confined to a hospital bed for

several days will suffer some degree of debilitation. If he survives, he will need physical therapy to regain his strength. It's not going to be a walk in the park, the way they would like us to believe.

[thereismore]

143. I think the pellet cut through skin, went into a vein and then

migrated. Possibly it was shot into his artery, but then the blood flow would send it into his brain - the old geezer would be dead. It is possible however that because of the heavy weight of the pellet, it actually did trickle down into his heart by gravity, especially if the old geezer was sitting up and joking with the nurses...

Anyhow, it is now clear that this was a messy affair.

BTW, do you know that LH Oswald's gun was also Italian? The miracle bullet really did go through a lot of human tissue and bone.

[IsItJustMe]

150. From minor flesh wounds to heart attack. What next? DEAD

[liwkenne]

156. How long will it be before the Cheney spin machine

announces that Whittington was probably going to have a heart attack this week anyway, and there is no connection between it and getting blasted in the chest and face by Snarlin' Dick?

[Catchawave]

158. I look forward to Olbermann's update tonight

It will be the most honest one.

Get well Mr. Whittington :hug:

[TheModernTerrorist]

159. SOMEONE CONTACT BILL FRIST

He's an EXPERT on diagnosing these sorts of things from far away.

[stickdog]

178. Frist has already weighed in on this.

MERELY A FLESH WOUND!

[renate]

180. not to make light of a heart attack but since you're really talking about

Frist and his long-distance diagnostic abilities, your "merely a flesh wound" and that picture both made me :rofl:

[TheModernTerrorist]

201. oh, thank god

thank god I wasn't drinking anything, that is. I spit everywhere laughing at that! :rofl:

[HughBeaumont]

163. Meanwhile, this story continues to smell to high heaven . . .

A man's life is on the line because of what some are flimsily calling an accident (I'm personally calling bullshit on this one), yet the Vice Grand Cyclops continues NOT to be investigated, NOT to be charged, NOT to be questioned, NOT to be held accountable, and NOT to apologize.

Welcome to Year Zero. This truly is a nightmare.

[Bluzmann57]

166. Hope he's all right

I don't care about his party affiliation, I hope he is ok. He's old and I heard some bird shot moved into his heart. That doesn't sound so good.

[f-bush]

206. Why would you hope the old bastard is ok

the worst this is, the better for the liberals. Don't you realize what great campaign fodder this can become?

[MADem]

173. NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION blames the Vee PEE!!!!!!!!

Friends say he is blameless. The NRA says responsibility lies with the shooter in such cases.

....The National Rifle Association places the onus of responsibility on the person pulling the trigger rather than the recipient of the gunshot.
"If that was just a regular Joe Blow, they'd say it was carelessness," said Peggy Bodner, executive vice president of the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs, an affiliate of the NRA.

...."If bird hunters get into trouble, it's usually because you've swung too far," he said.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/13865078.htm

[stickdog]

179. Guns don't shoot people. VPs shoot people.

[MADem]

187. And hey, if the NRA blames Deadeye Dick, who are we to argue?

It's the best weapon to toss at the wingnuts, frankly--when they start justifying, toss the NRA their way.

[hexola]

195. Maybe should be in Breaking News - at least its own thread!!!

NRA - thats big - make this its own thread!

[MADem]

204. Eh, past the nine or twelve hour rule...don't recall which

It would end up back here anyway, I reckon.


But hey, pass the link on! Anywhere and everywhere....sure can't hurt!

[Czolgosz]

186. "birdshot lodged in his heart and had a 'minor heart attack' this morning"

Harry Whittington, the 78-year-old lawyer who was shot by Vice President Dick Cheney in a hunting accident, has some birdshot lodged in his heart and had a "minor heart attack" this morning, according to hospital officials. NBC's White House Correspondent David Gregory has the latest, and Bob Bazell will explain what this means for Whittington's health. <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11340558/>

[President Kerry]

200. presidential immunity

or however the fuck they'll spin this. If he actually kills the man, voluntary or not, he WILL have stand before a court. Think of it as a fatal car crash. There will be no way for him to wriggle out of that.

[TrogL]

202. Pickles did

She killed her boyfriend and walked.

[f-bush]

207. She wasn't a sitting vice president when it happened

if this old repuke donating bastard dies, then there will be a howl and cry for some justice!

[loudsue]

208. Yes, she did. As did Junior, when popped for coke and DUI's.

But this is Texas, where "the law" is EXTREMELY flexible for people with "connections".

:kick::kick::kick: