How many DON'T SUBSCRIBE to various Cheney conspiracy threads?

[Atman]

I for one think this is getting just plain nuts. I've already been called out a couple of times today because I don't necessarily buy any of the "theories" going around re: Cheney's shooting of his friend.

Personally, I think the story is bizarre enough not to need any augmentation. A weekend away with lovers? Even while the photos show twenty people with them in the fields? Wow...that's some loyalty oath these people took! Of course, there is the "He was drunk!" crowd. I dared speak heresy by suggesting that someone in Cheney's ill health might actually have quit drinking after his most recent heart surgery. Whoa, my flame suit got scorched on that one! There was even a thread or two about Cheney sending a "warning" to prosecutor Fitzgerald and Scooter Libby. :eyes: Now some say Whittington is already dead, and they just won't tell us. This is actually the least far-fetched possibility, imho. Quite possible, in fact.

In each of these cases, though, I have been slammed by DUers for not signing on to the latest theory, be it booze or babes or whatever. And all I've done is advance the possibility that Cheney just fucked up badly and then tried to use his considerable power and influence to keep it on the QT. Why is that so difficult for so many too believe? I'm not, repeat not, sure I am correct on this at all. However, the people putting forth the other theories absolutey are correct, at least in their own minds, and call me the fool for not believing them. Sheesh. It does a disservice to all DUers for us to continually insist that everything a member of the BFEE does is rooted in some deep conspiracy someplace. Especially when the facts are bizarre enough all on their own, as is the case here. MAYBE there is a conspiracy...MAYBE there is not. But no DUer has the right to tell any other they're a dumbass for not signing on to a made-up hypothesis with no common denominator other than that we can't stand BushCo and want to see these assclowns OUT!

RANT OFF

[SteppingRazor]

1. YOU IGNORANT FOOL!

No, wait! I get it! You've been paid off by the GOP, haven't you?! Admit it!! :evilgrin:

[LeftNYC]

2. Some of these theories are a bit wacky...

The story is plainly bizarre. However, the drinking question I think is a good one. Why hold on to this story for 22 hours if it was a simple accident. Why keep brushing it over during press briefings, only for it to be revealed that Wittington had a minor heart attack less then an hour later.

Its not the crime, once again. Its the cover up.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. The drinking question more of an issue for those of us who

know the "good ole boys" culture that prevails in the South, a culture that mixes hunting and alcohol, viewing the two as going together.

Add to that the fact that a Sherriff's Deputy turned up at the ranch that night with questions and was "turned away" by Secret Service and you have the makings of some serious questions to be raised.

Why did the Secret Service turn away the Sherriff's Deputies? That question needs to be answered immediately.

[Atman]

30. "That question needs to be answered immediately."

Absolutely correct. The press should call some of these DU members, then, and not waste the time investigating or asking questions. So many here already seem to know all the answers!

AGAIN...I simply don't find it far-fetched at all that this is a case of an arrogant, power-mad prick who is used to always getting his way, and nothing more. So the SS turned away the local coppers. Big deal...who do you think trumps whom when push comes to shove? The local lawmen may have the badges, but Dick Cheney has the power to destroy all their lives. Before lunch tomorrow, if he so chooses.

[blm]

3. Secret Service don't talk about booze and girlfriends unless they're

compelled to under court orders.

So, it's not odd that there would be SS present at any tryst. You think SS didn't know about Poppy Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald?

[HamdenRice]

4. My conspiracies are completely documented...

I just finished what some might call a "conspiracy theory" thread about the shooting, but my OP is cross-referenced and documented.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x417384

[cali]

5. Good rant.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The folks that blast others for not buying into their bizarre or not so bizarre fantansies are way off base. Pay it no never mind.

[skypilot]

6. Get with the program.

Lynne Cheney sent Dick out on that "hunting trip" so that Whittington could blow Dick away freeing Lynne up to run off with her lesbian lover, the one she wrote that book for. Dick fired back in self-defense. It's all being covered up. Didn't you know?

[pitohui]

7. erm, he was drunk is not a conspiracy theory

it is just being part of the reality based world

alcoholics w. multiple DUIs rarely quit drinking and i have never known of one to quit drinking because of cardiovascular disease, highly motivated alcoholics occasionally abstain as a result of involvement in a program such as aa, cheney has never been in such a program and he has never even TRIED to claim that he quit the drinking

he's a drunk, this is simply documented fact, like it or leave it, the DUIs speak for themselves

if i had accidentally shot someone, i would want to be tested immediately to prove i wasn't impaired, otherwise you leave yourself wide open to being sued for everything you've got financially, ESPECIALLY if the person you peppered was a damn lawyer

he delayed and delayed and delayed and the only reason i can see for such delay while his friend is fuckin bleedin is simple --

he was drunk, whittington was drunk, hell, prob. everyone there was drunk except the secret service and the ambulance staff

occam's razor, my friend, it was a weekend hunting party in texas, not a meeting of the women's temperance league in boston

the accident happened in broad daylight central time, this look like an old dude in an orange hat and an orange vest to you?

[Atman]

8. How silly of me!

You're right, of course. You have such compelling evidence to back it up, too...a picture of a quail. If that doesn't prove Cheney was blotto, nothing will!

:sarcasm:

[Junkdrawer]

24. Yeah. And he had the SS send the local police away because...

he wanted time to shower, shave and get his best suit on...

[HamdenRice]

9. Fact: Armstrong's mother made Cheney a multi-millionaire ...

It was the mother of Katharine Armstrong, distraught hostess, who helped hire Cheney as CEO of Halliburton, of which she was a board member.

They are connected through Halliburton, Baker Botts, and Iraq contracts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x417384

[Atman]

10. And that spells "drunken affair" exactly how?

Sorry...I guess I'm a little slow.

[HamdenRice]

13. My point is: I think I've reported the real scandal ...

It wasn't the shooting; it wasn't that they were drunk; it wasn't that they were having an affair with the women.

It's that this shooting party was illegal lobbying among the super-elite rich of Texas and the west. It involves Iraq contracts, Halliburton and corruption of public boards in Texas.

If you read my OP, I think you will be appropriately shocked and aghast.

It is the business being conducted, not the shooting, that they were hiding for 22 hours.

[Atman]

15. Actually, Hampden, I don't really even lump yours into this category

There are many factual connections there, plenty of dots to connect which demonstrate the far-reaching tentacles of the BushCo cabal. But I notice your post didn't mention secret drunken Valentine's Weekend soires with the Armstrong women before they went lawyer hunting. Those are the posts I'm talking about. And the ones, like some of the replies in this very thread, by people who simply cannot accept that this hunting accident might not be anything more than the bizarro accident that it already is, without having to play it up with booze and sex.

[HamdenRice]

19. But what's frustrating is there is a real story: illegal lobbying, coverup

I mean it's staggering that the ranch's owners litterally turned Cheney from a middle class civil servant into a multi-millionare through Halliburton, and now jawbone him about Iraq contracts, defense contracts etc on their ranch.

Maybe people just don't want to read multiparagraph, researched, documented posts.


Depressing.

[Atman]

25. Saying it is about booze and broads is just easier to grasp

It's something even us plebes can understand. That is what makes these crazy stories flourish, imho. All that big-business high-finance world-domination stuff...ooh, my head hurts!

Thanks for your posts, Hamden. Good research.

[HamdenRice]

27. The big question: Did Cheney pay for the time on the ranch? If not ...

this looks like illegal lobbying if they discussed their numerous family businesses!

[endarkenment]

35. Yeah that'll play well in 5 seconds.

Why go for the immediate palpable scandal when there is something complex and easy to confuse everyone about that might also be there? Drunken sex and hunting orgy goes bad? Nah, illegal lobbying, yeah that'll change everything.

I swear we will find a way to outsmart ourselves every damn time.

[HamdenRice]

36. There is zero evidence of drunken sex or hunting orgies ...

I hope you are being sarcastic.

The circumstantial evidence of illegal lobbying is overwhelming by contrast.

I'm just dealing with what's real rather than with what some hope is true.

[endarkenment]

37. Yes indeed wait for the official evidence.

Don't speculate that two rich old farts and two young women on a hunting party in texas were drinking and fooling around. That would be irresponsible. The official report will be forthcoming and it will get to the bottom of this. Yes please concentrate on a possible financial irregularity here, the media will pick that story up and run with it for sure.

[Atman]

38. "The Media" isn't going to pick up EITHER angle

You're delusional.

[endarkenment]

39. Gee thanks.

The media will pick up anything that has to do with sex and violence and drugs, hopefully in combination. They cannot stay away from a sex drugs and violence scandal. In fact they are already obsessed with it.

[endarkenment]

11. Fine. 22 hour delay. blocked police investigation.

panic in the white house. cascading restatements of stories. nothing to hide. got it.

Speculating that perhaps there was something to hide and what it was that they might be hiding is not 'paranoid conspiracy theorizing'. Hazarding a guess that an afternoon good old boy hunt might have involved a lunch with alcoholic beverages is not looney-tunes.

[Atman]

14. Speculating is exactly that -- speculating.

Speculating that an arrogant power-mad shadow dictator thought he could get away with "influencing" the right people to keep this hush-hush IS looney-tunes, though?

[endarkenment]

29. no thats not looney tunes either.

That would be a false dichotomy. All of these are valid speculations. Why on earth ought we to stop speculating about why they are in full panic over at the white house? Bring on the speculation.

[Atman]

32. "Bring on the speculation." -- Absolutely!

Just stop calling your speculation "facts." We have only one FACT right now...Whittington is full of birdshot. Beyond that, anyone claiming their little bit of speculation is a fact which trumps the other guy's speculation is just plain making shit up. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED YET. And this being Cheney, I hope some of you are prepared for the eventuality that we may never know!

[endarkenment]

33. Gee I'm not calling cheney's drunkeness facts.

Nor have I seen any posts that state 'it is a fact that cheney was drunk'. I've seen lots of speculation that this would explain a lot of what we do know has happened.

"We have only one FACT right now...Whittington is full of birdshot."

Well no we have another fact: law enforcement officers were put off for 22 hours.

We have another fact: the white house has released several misleading/false stories since Sunday about this incident.

These are all facts and they lead to speculation about what these facts mean.

Here is another fact I just learned: the 'hunting party' consisted of two men and two women, none of whom were married to each other. Care to speculate what that might lead to?

[mattclearing]

12. These things get said because the official story is obviously bullshit.

You don't hold the story for 22 hours because you intend to tell the truth.

[onenote]

16. I'm with you

Maybe it will turn out that they were drinking, but maybe it won't. No one here at DU knows, although many seem to be certain. Hell, many are certain that Whittington's already dead and may have been dead or dying from the get go. That requires a really broad conspiracy involving ambulance driver/medics, hospital employees, family, friends etc.

As for the question of why sit on the story? Because that's what Cheney does. He believes that he doesn't answer to anyone and the rules don't apply to him. This time, that attitude is getting him in trouble; there are plenty of other instances where he's gotten away with it (starting with his "energy" panel meetings).

onenote

[Ganja Ninja]

17. I personally don't buy the whole "quail" hunting story.

Everyone knows that these guys get their real kicks from hunting the ultimate prey, human beings! :tinfoilhat:

[WilliamPitt]

18. I just think he shot a guy in the face

That's wierd enough without augmentation.

But this *is* DU. Pretty soon you'll hear it wasn't birdshot that hit the guy, but the same kind of cruise missile that hit the Pentagon...and FEMA did a controlled demolition of his face...and the pellets were actually flown by remote control...etc.

[H2O Man]

26. Neck & chest, too.

Caused a heart attack.

[endarkenment]

34. "you'll hear it wasn't birdshot that hit the guy"

We've already heard that from Comical Alley (aka MSM.) BBs, pellet guns, anything other than what actually happened.

[XOKCowboy]

21. Common Sense. Wow what a concept!

I'm actually a little embarassed by some of the theories being thrown about. I can understand wanting to have some fun with Darth Cheney but come on.

I'm with you. He fucked up by shooting the guy and again by thinking he was above the law. That's it and that's enough.

[Texasgal]

22. I've had my ass handed to me today

at least a half a dozen times.

I really feel like this was an accident, I don't think there is some weird thing about it. I think the wait in reporting to the media had something to do with preserving what could be a PR disaster. Do I think it's right? NO, I don't...I find that the ONLY damaging thing about this story. Hunting accidents happen... it's UNFORTUNATE.

I don't think Cheney was having an affair, and I am little put out that people would take the "sexist" attitude that just because there were married men and women on a hunting trip they were obviously screwing around. :eyes: I guess we are still in 1950, where married men and women cannot do things with each other unless they are fucking...

I do think however, that there alot of more damaging things to get this administration... not a freakin' hunting accident.

Of course, this is MY OPINION, and I am not telling anyone what they can or cannot talk about. I am just sharing MY OPINION.

[VOX]

23. Understood, but BushCo is not known for telling the truth...

Throughout the dark reign of this corrupt administration, its mouthpieces have consistently altered facts (or just downright lied) to suit its needs, to deflect, to foment hatred and spread misinformation. Telling the truth is not its stock in trade, and that's a severe understatement. Honesty, transparency and openness in government have vanished.

I'm pretty far from a conspiracy theorist, but I do not put **anything** past this administration, nor do I believe much of what they say/report/spin.

While a few of the Cheney-shooting scenarios posted are admittedly far-fetched, you can bet that the White House has yet to tell the truth about what really occurred. The fact that they sat on the story for nearly 24 hours only makes it worse.

[debbierlus]

28. I wasn't there

So, I don't know what happened.

Nor, does anyone else....

However, logic certainly points to certain things.

[Katherine Brengle]

31. ix-nay on the onspiracy-cay... BUT-----

it is now clear that laws were broken, legal protocol was not followed, and that there is some basis for serious discussion here.

I'm searching through these millions of Cheney the Conqueror of all Small Birds threads to find some more info, but the Center for American Progress has a section on the legal situation, as do many others at this point.

It's all well and fine that it was an accident--accidents happen--but the issue is that the Vice President of the United States was hunting illegally, was not made available to local authorities for a statement/questioning, and did not disclose his actions until the day after the event took place.

(As far as true "conspiracy theories" I don't think there are any legs there.

[DinahMoeHum]

40. Dickhead Cheney = SLOB HUNTER

aka Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is often the most plausible one.

:evilfrown:

[janx]

41. Cheney was negligent with a firearm and shot a guy.

Then he tried to muffle the news. That in itself is awful enough, so I don't pay too much attention to the speculation.

I don't care whether or not he was drunk--he shot a guy. His negligence may have involved alcohol, maybe not. It doesn't matter.

It is what it is. He was reckless with a firearm, and he shot a guy.