There's So Much Rage About Hackett Dropping Out Of The Race.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

Can anyone provide factual arguments as to why Sherrod Brown is not someone we should get behind? Any factual arguments as to why Sherrod Brown isn't as viable a candidate? Any factual arguments as to why Sherrod Brown doesn't deserve our support and is such a bad choice that Hackett dropping out means the end of the world in Ohio?

I love Paul Hackett and supported him 100%. Now that he's dropped out I am disappointed, but I also respect Sherrod Brown and think he has a hell of a shot at taking the seat, and is a dem I can be proud of as well. So when I see all the rage here, It makes me take pause. Is there something about Brown I'm missing? Are there arguments against him as requested above that I haven't been aware of?

If there are, I ask that you provide the well thought out arguments below to help shed some light on why Sherrod Brown running is such a disaster.

Thanks! :hi:

[pk_du]

1. For what its worth - those are my thoughts EXACTLY.... thx

[ronnykmarshall]

2. Oh you and your QUESTIONS!!!

Can't you see? The evil blood sucking Hillary Clinton sent out orders from the mighty Hilgina via the baby eating cult .... I mean the DLC and ORDERED him to drop out or his family would be thrown into a volcano.

Get with the program would ya??

Sheesh!

[LynneSin]

3. After all I said I don't think any democrat in Ohio is viable

But Sherrod is someone we could be proud to have as a senator. He was one of the democrats to original oppose the Patriot Act!

[seabeyond]

4. i am a hackett donater. i am not even disappointed. i support brown

want him to kick ass. i personally am done with this one.

[Jacobin]

5. Is Sherrod a vet of IraqNam?

I think that carries an enormous amount of weight....someone who can criticize the chicken hawks is a powerful powerful thing.

He seemed to be a person who would say what is on his mind whether it was popular or the party line....and that is what this party DESPERATELY needs.

[shireen]

6. this is not about Sherrod Brown

This is about the PROCESS!

Who the hell do these Democratic Party bosses think they are to have the audacity to pick candidates?! That's the job of the voters! It's that SIMPLE!

Win or lose, Paul Hackett deserved a fair chance in this primary. He never got it because of the power-grubbing control freaks who are probably doing this as a favor for some big business interests.

[Botany]

10. egg Zac Lee!

Senators from New York & Nevada get to pick who gets to run for senate from Ohio?

What about my Vote?
What about Waxman calling people and telling them not to contribute to Hackett?
Brown waited and then got into the race after Hackett and then the good old
boy network pushes out a person that the party really needs.

This sucks.

[Buck Rabbit]

7. Grrr! Brown is a damn liberal !!!

Oh wait, so am I ... never mind.

[radio4progressives]

8. once again: the outrage is NOT about Brown - the outrage is about PROCESS

the very principles of the "peoples choice" means something very important to people, something we have been robbed of in the past several stolen elections, and when it comes to what is said and done in Washington.

the fact that there are some people such as your self, who refuse to acknowledge THAT as the issue, and (not about Brown or his record) says a lot, about why the fascists have remained in power this long. "we trust our leaders".

[PBass]

11. The process you wanted to see played out

is having Sherrod Brown and Paul Hackett claw each others' eyes out, before going after DeWine.

Boy, too bad that won't happen. :eyes:

[jsamuel]

16. funny cause I see that happening right now on DU

[shireen]

17. that's just silly

they're good people who would have engaged in civil and respectful debates, and we would be better for it. .

[ChairmanAgnostic]

25. as a civics lesson for the rest of the country. instead, we show the seedy

side and power of the DLC.

That is a huge shame.

A decent primary with two strong candidates makes either one stronger. The extra publicity and coverage they earn is worth its weight in gold. The DLC is foolish and shortsighted. Our party needs to take some purging medication and make sure we flush once the DLC is fully shat out of our system.

[wiley]

18. It's the fact that Schumer decided to inform Hackett's donors

not to donate to him. Talk about turning an inspired non-politician off.

Perhaps people actually appreciate debate about positions. Why do you assume it would be nasty? Why do you assume it would be counter-productive?

Lecture me some more about process. That wins elections, right?.

Let's just see who the DNC appoints as the winner of the primaries after Iowa so we can watch that person go down in flames following a well scripted "presentation" of our candidate.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. I appreciate you position, but do you have anything to say in response to

the OP itself?

I'm curious if you have anything to add in relation to the actual questions posed in the original thread. If not, that's ok, I'm just curious is all.

[wiley]

23. Good Luck

I hope that Brown knows and states his positions well, and that he doesn't appear to compromise based on polling or inevitable right wing and fundamentalist attacks. He's much more progressive on certain issues that Buckeyes are used to, but they respect honest and direct politicians who they feel are "real" as opposed to a packaged candidate.

:patriot:

[noamnety]

30. The OP itself

misrepresents what the anger is about.

It's not about the quality or lack of quality of the opposing candidate, nor is it anger that Paul dropped out. It's anger that the democratic leadership apparently feels they have the right to use underhanded tactics to bully people into not running in a primary, and that that same leadership feels they have more right to censor who can and can't run for office.

Having said that, my opinion of Brown before was nonexistent. Now it is negative. I would give him credit for more integrity if he spoke out immediately to say that what the leadership was doing was wrong, and if he'd encouraged (publicly and privately) Paul to stay in the race. Instead, my impression is that he was in on the coercion. Not a good intro to the man.

[RazzleDazzle]

20. Bullshit. That isn't and would not have been necessary.

There's a way to conduct a political campaign without the dirt. I think Hackett would have been capable of that. I don't know about Brown. It would ennoble the whole process and make a dramatic difference probably in ALL of Ohio's political processes.

[noamnety]

24. The process I wanted to see played out

is a democratic primary in which the PEOPLE select a popular candidate, which is a normal part of our political system. And preferable, I believe, to having party leaders decide who is or isn't allowed to run.

It's not about Brown, it's about being denied to the right to make the decision ourselves.

Either you support the right of ANY candidate to run, and have a vote to select who wins the primary, or you believe an elite group of party higher ups should make that decision for us.

[Pachamama]

31. Claw eachother's eyes out? Excuse me? I didn't realize that is what

mature adults running for office did! Since when? Isn't another option that multiple qualified individuals who are running for office (like Sherrod Brown and Paul Hackett) could let the voters of Ohio decide who they should pick and let them convey to them their qualifications (ie. Hackett as a Vet and Attorney and Sherrod Brown as a Congresscritter who has served already etc.) and why they are running for office? Since when did it have to be dirty, nasty campaigns and "clawing eyes out"? I thought that was Republican game plays....aren't we above that? And if it did get nasty by one or more candidates, so what? It's happened before and someone wins the primary and then goes on to the election and (gasp) even wins! The Republicans do it all the time....you think if there was a nasty showdown between GOPers that they don't do it simply because they are worried of what "Dems" think?

I say let the best person win a primary and the voters decide....not a party machine who picks and chooses the candidates. And let the classiest and best person win.

[KharmaTrain]

12. The Process Is Money...Nothing More, Nothing Less

Winning that Senate seat will cost upwards of 50 million dollars...most of it for TV airtime in Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati & Pittsburgh (expensive markets) and have to operate a diverse number of campaign operations from the urban landscape of Loraine to the rural areas near Steubenville. This is one hell of a state to both cover and win and organization is what counts...for both getting the money that makes it possible to compete and then to win.

Hackett didn't have the organization. He used a lot of Brown's people in his campaign and didn't have or leave an organization in place after his election.

Yes, this is about process...but it's more than stating you're for or against something and having people vote...it's organizing and showing the ability to master the process, perserve and then succede. In that test, Mr. Hackett didn't do too tell. The fact was, the people who fund these elections...many of them inside Ohio (the people ya know) wrote more checks to Mr. Brown than Hackett...doesn't that say something as well?

Now if you'd like to make it strictly sitting on soap boxes, putting out issues and keeping personalities and other sideshows (like money) out of this, that's asking for wholescale electoral reform and a whole different topic. Right now, Democrats have precious little time to get races sized up and competitive for the fall.

Cheers...

[MercutioATC]

9. Brown's fine. I've always said I'll vote for him if he's the candidate.

...and it looks like he is.

That doesn't mean that I can't be pissed with the Dem "leadership" for the way they went about it or with Brown for aiding them.

That said, he's still better than DeWine and he has my vote...it's just a nose-holding vote now.

[lastknowngood]

13. Brown has a strong lib record. He will be easy pickins for the repug

hate machine. We just lost a senate seat and a house seat because of the Damn DLC/repugs ruining our party. You can support Brown all you want he's already lost, and my party engineered this intentionally. I was a supporter/donater of Paul because he spoke truth to power, we will now be inflected with another mealy mouth/no real position loser.

[Nothing Without Hope]

14. Yes there is. I've set up a COMPILATION OF THREADS on Hacket withdrawing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x411573
thread title (2-14-06 GD): COMPILATION of Hackett withdrawal threads and 3 CARTOONS for the DEMS:

These threads cover pretty much the whole range of response.

[confludemocrat]

15. This was the year to run someone like Hackett. Incumbent-phobia reigns

But NOOOOOO, Dems will go with the smoke-filled room designate. And why have most people never heard of Sherrod Brown? So we'll have two Ohio pols running against each other. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[NoodleyAppendage]

21. The RAGE is about being forcefed candidates from the Good Ole Boy Dems

Sherrod Brown nodded to Hackett that he wasn't in the Senate fight, then all of the sudden he decides to join the race. Now, Hackett is supposed to just bow out (as he was forced to today) because Shumer and his Good Ole Boy Dem DLC masters tell him to...

The party is named after the concept of DEMOCRACY. That means giving the people a choice in their leadership, not some backroom deal, forcefed candidate bullshit.

JB

[Lexingtonian]

22. Don't bother

What you're missing about the HackettRage(tm) is on one level just good ol' classical Left misbehavior. Their basic Triumph Of The Will doctrine didn't work out (again), they feel their blue collar values dissed and resentment that they're not the Masters tapped. And like the classical Left, they simply hate the bourgeois middle class (i.e. Brown) and its liberalism.

The ego and narcissism involved is also hard to miss. Of course, they pretend it's not about that.

[izzybeans]

26. Agreed.

The rage is about a Process that will not change. Each time this happens there is disappointment. Hackett was eaten up by a machine he wasn't prepared for. The political machine is about positioning. Sometimes people get out-flanked. It sucks and it doesn't make it any less wrong. It just is what it is. Time to move on and win the damn thing.

[Paradise]

27. kick! n/t

[mopinko]

28. brown was a member of congress when the election was

stolen in his state. i do not recall hearing from him. maybe he did speak out and i don't remember. but the weakness and corruption in the ohio democratic party was instrumental to the theft. the failure of elected dems in general to be an effective opposition has cost the world plenty.

[yodermon]

29. What bizarre questions.

They are bizarre, because I have seen no one who's angry about Hackett dropping out say anything bad about Brown as a candidate, person, or Democrat. (except perhaps for jumping into the race after saying he wasn't planning to, but that really has no bearing on his politics).

I think people are upset because the Democratic leadership went "behind his back" to disrupt his candidacy. It smacks of elitism and good 'ol boy politics, which are the mainstay of the Repugs/DLC, not the populist, grassroots, Howard Dean-mold Democrats.

Brown is actually to the left of Hackett on almost all issues (Hackett's immigration opinions make me shudder), which is why the Hackett fans are worried--can a true-blue progressive Democrat really beat DeWine in Ohio? Remember Hackett got 48% of the vote in a highly red district -- would Brown have won so many crossover votes in the same district?

If you step back, you can see the irony here. What scared the Dem leadership about Hackett was NOT his politics (he's a Centrist! the DLC shoulda loved him!) but his straight-talking, directness, and willingness to call shrub an asshole. For some reason this terrifies the elite Dems, so they strong-armed him out of the race. Personally, I think they should have let them have a go at the primaries. I don't think they would have "scratched each other's eyes out" -- I think it would have been a good debate. It is DUers who would've scratched each other's eyes out.

Again, the rage is not directed at Brown, but at the Dem leadership who resorted to dirty tricks to oust Hackett. Hence your questions are unanswerable because their premise is faulty.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. Maybe Because The Dem Leadership Realizes How Important It Is To Win This

year.

If they found flaw in Paul that caused them to rethink their position on him for the good sake of making sure we have the best shot of taking the seat, then I stand with them. Politics by nature has a certain level of trickery involved. Those that think politicians aren't supposed to act like politicians are just misguided to the reality of what politics is and will forever be. Fact is, I don't care about the tricks they used in this argument. I may not agree with the tricks or like them, but the most they could've done is make him have to work that much harder to defend his positioning. Fact is, rather than gear up his efforts, fire up the grass-roots campaign and strive to overcome the challenge in spite of the Dem trickery he chose instead to simply withdraw while admitting he wasn't really ready for this level of politics. But it was still his choice, no one forced him, no one ousted him. He did that out of his own free will.

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. no to your question. But here are some facts about Sherrod Brown

Brown Tops DeWine in New Poll
An Opinion Consultants poll finds Ohio voters favor Rep. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) for the U.S. Senate over incumbent Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH), 43% to 38%

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/01/26/brown_tops_dewine_in_new_poll.html

Sherrod Brown is endorsed by PDA (Progressive Democrats of America) and is an outspoken member of the Progressive Caucus.

Representative Brown is at least as liberal as Sen. Kennedy or Sen. Feingold

courtesy of vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H3141103&type=category&category=Foreign%2BAid%2Band%2BPolicy%2BIssues&go.x=12&go.y=8


2006 In 2006 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 In 2005 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Council on American-Islamic Relations 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (WRMEA) 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Peace Action 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 84 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 96 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Council of La Raza 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 77 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 90 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Education Association 89 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Postal Workers Union 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 88 percent of the time.

2004 On the votes that the Service Employees International Union considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Communications Workers of America 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers considered to be the most important in 2003-2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 94 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 In 2004 National Organization for Women endorsed Representative Brown.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

[mattclearing]

34. My understanding is that "Brown is too liberal to win in Ohio."

And that Hackett was a fighter and a moderate who would have won.

It's really interesting, because the same people who usually scream "DLC Moderate Suckass" (i.e. fighting mad Dean types) are basically putting forth the classic DLC argument for why we should have run/supported Hackett.

Disclosure: I am a fighting mad Dean type, but I have mostly stayed on the sidelines of this one.