Does size matter? #7 1/2 birdshot vs 5 mm object

[TacticalPeek]

Dr. David Blanchard, the hospital's emergency room chief, said Whittington suffered an "asymptomatic heart attack," without displaying symptoms such as chest pains or breathing difficulty. He said a roughly 5 mm piece of shot became lodged in or alongside Whittington's heart muscle, causing the organ's upper two chambers to beat irregularly.

http://www.ksbitv.com/home/2310601.html


#7 1/2 bird shot is 2.41 mm, roughly half the size of the object that the doctor reported in or near the heart. A 5 mm piece is actually closer to the size of the small-end buck shot, which I believe is #4.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shot_info.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm



Maybe the tired old eyes of a small town doctor measured it wrong? :evilgrin:

Maybe two #7 1/2 shot fused together to make one 4.82 mm? :shrug:

Maybe two #7 1/2 shot look like one 5 mm chunk on the x-ray?

Maybe Vice President Elmer Fudd doctors his loads?

Maybe I'm too concerned about Whittington's medical care to get my story straight - I mean facts right?

[NYC]

1. Thought the 5 mm sounded large,

and wondered if it was a cluster.

We have been told it was a Perazzi 28 gauge. We have not been told the size of the shot. I wonder why not.

How many mm in size 9?

[TomInTib]

3. 2.03. But this could have been a ranch hand-load salted with...

larger #2 or #3 for added knockdown power.

[NYC]

12. Would that account for the 5mm?

Otherwise, I suppose it could be two 7 1/2 size clumped together.

I've heard 3 different versions:

He was hit with 50 to 80 pellets.
He was hit with 100 pellets.
100 pellets still remain in him.

I would imagine the size of the pellets make a difference to his health.

[TomInTib]

14. Yeah, the police report said they were using "factory loads" and..

it is not uncommon for two shot to meld, thus the 5mm object.

That's why I never used Factory loads.

[TacticalPeek]

5. I've seen the shot size reported as #7 1/2.

Don't know the source, nor have the link handy. Possibly the Game and Fish boys' report.

Of course, with a timely investigation or inquiry, this and many important questions might be answered.

[hlthe2b]

8. It has been reported several times that I've seen: 7 1/2

which is normal size shot for quail according to my hunting friends...My later father was among these and I remember seeing the pellets from time to time among his spent cartridges.

Someone said 2.41 milimeters. That would be right, I believe.

The bottom line--no way Cheney was 30 yards away. No way. He was much closer.

[cliss]

11. That's what somebody told me today.

He said: "There's NO way Cheney was that far away. He had to be closer".

Reports say that Whittington was hit with about 100 pieces of metal. If Cheney was 30 yards away, the spray would have dispersed before they hit Whittington. There wouldn't have been as many pellets. The fact that were so many, is proof positive Cheney was CLOSE.

Just how close, I wonder? And what does this mean?

[hlthe2b]

13. re: what does this mean?

I don't put any more emphasis on it, except for its underscoring how very negligent Cheney was (I don't buy into the largely tongue-in-cheek suggestions by some that he "meant" to shoot Whittington).

I think it reflects how arrogant Cheney is--hunts only by car, walks very little distance to an area where pen-reared quail have been released--shoots these slow moving and largely tame birds because he likes to kill things. Just as with his fascination with torture, I think Cheney has a real addiction to killing--not hunting, since this is clearly NOT hunting--just killing. Why else would a guy whose gout is so damned bad he can hardly walk, be doing this?

I spent time in Wyoming for a number of years when Cheney was coming off Defense Secretary to George HW and moving on to his gluttonous corporate years. His hard drinking (DUI) habits were well known in Jackson and his attempts to portray himself as a WY cowboy/gentleman rancher/outdoorsman were considered laughable. He was then as now, just an arrogant wealthy man who never took the time to learn to shoot nor cared to truly hunt. So these wealthy preserves with their stocked ducks or pheasants, doves or quail--where he could just shoot and shoot and shoot, like skeet, yards from his vehicle--were his domain. He was known to be rather impulsive and trigger happy and no one would be surprised if he was then (as now) "hunting" drunk. I think they'd be more surprised if he wasn't.

I met him once and had opportunity as a course of work to talk briefly (interview) him. A colleague of mine who had likewise met with him during this time asked me my impressions. I truly didn't have much feeling other than as a very self-absorbed and pompous man. Yet today, when I see Cheney now on tv, my hair almost stands on end. I get these very strong feelings of evil emanating from him--just an instinctive sensation. I find it very strange that that feeling was not there before--especially that one short time I met him in person.... Considering Brent Scrowcroft's comments about Cheney not being the man he knew before, it had me wondering.... :shrug:

[cliss]

15. Wow, thanks for the info.

I'm with you - just the mere sight of him, and my hair stands on end. In my entire lifetime, I have NEVER met a man like Cheney (I don't know him, but he's been in our faces for the past 5 years, so to speak).

I just think that Hitler was a puppy dog compared to Cheney.

[Arkansas Granny]

2. Let me be the first to tell you that I know next to nothing about

firearms or ammunition. However, when I measure the diameter of a standard pencil eraser with brass calipers it is 6 mm. So, is a 5 mm pellet standard size to bring down quail?

Just askin'.

[TomInTib]

4. Not at all. #7 1/2 (2.41mm) or #9 (2.03) are the shot of choice.

But as I have said, one can "salt" handloads with larger BBs.

[Auntie Bush]

6. 5mm is the size of a song birds eye. That's pretty big for a bee-bee..

[jmowreader]

7. No, that's more like goose shot

The bigger the bird, the bigger the shot. Easy enough.

OTOH, you wouldn't use a 28-gauge shotgun on geese because it won't give the shot enough energy to penetrate the bird's feathers. You'd use a 12-gauge.

I'd use 5mm shot on rattlesnakes, but not a Perazzi shotgun--it's too nice. A lot of guys carry "snake charmers" which are basically sawed-off .410s.

[Arkansas Granny]

10. Thanks for the info. I thought that seemed like a larger size

than necessary to bring down a small bird.

Would you call that "overkill"? :sarcasm:

[Ksec]

9. Shot was small enough to migrate in a blood vessel

into the heart.