"Redneck" isn't Southern...IT'S SCOTTISH.

[Tyler Durden]

And OLD COUNTRY type Scottish at that.

http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/rednecks/rednecks.html

(snip)
REDNECKS

The origins of this term Redneck are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or "Covenanters", largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.

Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term "Red neck", (rednecks) which became slang for a Scottish dissenter*. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar -- is this symbolic of the "rednecks"?

Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that "red-neck" was a "name bestowed upon the Presbyterians." It makes you wonder if the originators of the ever-present "redneck" joke are aware of the term’s origins - Rednecks?

(snip)

As to "Modern Rednecks": Sorry. I'm not with them or for them. I watched a "redneck" check out in a market in Owosso, Michigan. His three children and wife looked like a "bath" was a technical term they weren't familiar with. They paid in $100 blls. "Daddy" was wearing a $400 LEATHER, DALE EARNHART NASCAR JACKET, with all embroidery and patches. Just for pure curiousity, I watch what car they went to: a late model GMC "Dually" pickup, with NRA, W '04, naked woman mudflaps....

We are not going to win these fuckers over to our side. GIVE UP.

May I repeat that? GIVE UP.

My opinion is that if EVERY SINGLE PERSON left of center eligible to vote ACTUALLY REGISTERED AND VOTED, THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANOTHER REPUBLICAN ELECTED. ANYWHERE.

We live in a country where there are LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS. And you think you can get ahead by not offending REDNECKS???

If you believe that, truly, you aren't from the Left. You're from MARS.

[Binka]

1. K & R

Good post! Thank you.

[Tyler Durden]

3. 'scuse the oldie, but WHAT is "K&R"?

I see it all the time, must have missed that meeting.

Oh yes: let's get out our OWN FUCKING VOTE, and forget about converting the rePukes. They hate us, and if we have any brains at all...we should hate them right back.

To paraphrase the words of a Confederate General: I don't want my enemies live, brave and honorable: I want them DEAD.

So to speak.

[CottonBear]

6. K&R = Kicked and Recommended.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Tyler Durden]

9. Ve ist too soon OLT, und too late SCHMART.

AHA. Thanks.

[Binka]

7. Kick & Recommend

This needs to be on the greatest page. And you say "They hate us, and if we have any brains at all...we should hate them right back." To which I reply A-THE-FUCKING-MEN!

[RubyDuby in GA]

8. K&R = kick and recommended n/t

[sasha031]

11. but WHAT is "K&R, I have wondered that myself

:shrug: maybe someone will let us in on something we have missed...

[Lars39]

19. Kicked and Recommended.

:hi:

[Hobarticus]

2. Very interesting! K & R n/t

[CottonBear]

4. My Scots-Irish Presbyterian ancestor immigrated to NC from Ireland

in the 1700s. He settled in the mountains where he had a mill. His daughter (my aunt Elizabeth) married Davey Crockett!

The modern day Scots-Irish Presbyterians are typically upper middle class, college educated, conservative people (my dad's family and my mom) and are not "rednecks" in the popular sense of the word.

The NASCAR sort of redneck is a completely different group.

[Tyler Durden]

15. Just giving the background.

Lots of Scots in my family. I dug up that trivia YEARS back to arm some of the Germans in my family that had immigrated from East Prussia (annexed by Poland) and were being referred to by the Scots as "Polocks." The name calling came to a screeching halt.

Nothing like family fun.

[CottonBear]

21. Good research! I'm a proud Prebyterian Scots-Irish Redneck!

Have you heard of the Redneck Games in Dublin, GA? What a hoot! Google Redneck Games! Very funny!

I also love Jeff Foxworthy's "you might be a redneck if..." jokes. :)

[WinkyDink]

26. Davy Crockett was your UNCLE??! How cool is THAT?!

I used to wear his hat. Hee.

[CottonBear]

29. My aunt was his second wife (1st one died young) so he was an in-law.

His nephew by marriage (who has the same name as my dad, brother and nephew)went to the Alamo with him which pruned off that branch of the family tree! I heard her name mentioned once on a History Channel show about Crockett! COOL!

[Leopolds Ghost]

36. Musta been a great-aunt, right? :-)

[CottonBear]

37. Yep! A many times great aunt. n/t

[caligirl]

5. fascinating story. I am originally from the south of scottish descent

and the area my family lives in is referred to as the Red Neck Riviera. ( Florida panhandle)Lots of Presbyterian Church's down there..

[CottonBear]

24. LA = Lower Alabama (part of the Redneck Riviera!)

LOL! My late grandparents and retired to Gulf Shores!

I wonder if their old house survived Katrina. It survived Frederick. :(

[jane_pippin]

10. Hootman!

(My gramma used to say that all the time. I'm not entirely sure what it means, but I think it means "yay" or something like that, right?)


:kick:

[Sequoia]

12. I just read that in the book, "Founding Myths:

Stories That Hide Our Patriotic Past", by Ray Raphael

He states that term did come from Scotland but referred to riff raff who rebeled against the government and then it was off to America because they were not wanted in Scotland.

[CottonBear]

23. Correct. They got kicked out of Scotland, went to Ireland & then to USA.

Most arrived at ports in Philadelphia.PA or Wilmington, NC. My Scots-Irish Presbyterian Aunt and Uncle live in Wilmington, NC. My many greats grandfather came to Wilmington and then travelled to the Western NC mountains to settle. There is a tiny Presbyterian church in a tiny community nearby my city in NE GA which was founded by Presbyterians who came down from Philly in the late 1700s. There are many folks with my Scots-Irish surname in the community!

[Sequoia]

56. Rather the same for me.

My founding father came over in 1775 with a grant from King George III and when the boundry lines were drawn he ended up on the Western NC side. We have a castle in Scotland outside of Weem. But it's not like it's actually "our" castle as there are many of the original family back there.

[CottonBear]

57. Cool! A family castle! Have you visited it or toured it? n/t

[Sequoia]

59. No, not yet.

My youngest brother was in the Air Force stationed in England and found out about it that way. Didn't know anything about it before, but as a little kid I used to tell the little girls I was a princess.

Here it is, it's the Castle Menzie (not my last name, but many Scottish names were changed a bit here and there). I was in the AF also (Washington State) and went into the bowling alley on base one cold and snowy day to get some food and the server was from Scotland or Ireland and when she saw my name tag and told me how there were plenty of us over there.

[MichaelHarris]

13. You know you're a Redneck when

you shot at least one of your friends in the face with a shotgun while on a hunting trip.

[izzybeans]

14. HI. My handle is Izzybeans and I apparently am a Redneck.

I discovered I was a redneck only just now. But only a classical redneck. Give me a McEwan's and a Scotch and I'll be right randy for Church in the mornin'

[theHandpuppet]

16. It's also part of the history of coal miners in WV

I first heard this during a PBS documentary on the subject and there are numerous sources to support the claim. However, since many in that part of Appalachia are of Scottish heritage, it is also possible they adopted the Scottish sign of resistance as their own.

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/coal-mine.htm

"Thousands of miners gathered in Marmet, a village on the Kanawha River ten miles upstream from Charleston, later that month. At that time, the main roads and railways from the Charleston area to Logan and Mingo Counties departed into the hills from that point. Labor leaders such as “Mother” Jones begged and even lied to the miners to prevent violence. However, the miners arrived and organized along military lines (many of them having served in the First World War.) They created a system of communication and passwords that no participant ever revealed, even to historians many decades later. In addition, to distinguish themselves from people uninvolved they wore red kerchiefs around their necks (perhaps providing the origin of the word “redneck.”) They also assembled commissary wagons and brought along clergy and medical personnel."

From http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/jacobs270106.html

"According to the story, miners who were in the union (the union of course being the United Mine Workers of America -- UMWA) or sympathetic to it wore red bandannas tied around their necks so that other miners and their families could differentiate friend from foe. Hence the name redneck. Wearing that red kerchief opened one to all kinds of abuse by the forces of law and order, private and public. It's not like there was really much difference between the two, however, seeing how the coal operators and owners ran the entire state of West Virginia. Some things don't change very much, do they?"

Other sources (among many) :
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/redneck.htm

[Devlzown]

17. That's interesting.

Although there's a lot of Scots-Irish Presbyterians in my family, I've never heard any of them refer to themselves as rednecks. It was always explained to me that rednecks were referred to as such because they were farmers and the backs of their necks stayed blistered from working in the fields. Your explanation is probably the correct one, though. When it comes to colloquialisms and etymologies, the simplest explanation is usually wrong.

[QC]

18. That's one etymology for the word "redneck" and not the most accepted one.

Most people who actually study this sort of thing trace the word to the sunburned necks of the rural working class. The word has always been a term of class hatred, used to attribute all kinds of ills to the working class, rather than to the class that actually runs things.

Therefore "rednecks" are responsible for all the racism in the country, the wars, etc., rather than the people who actually have some power. Poor guys who live in trailers are responsible for institutional racism, not the people who actually control the institutions. Wars are the fault of the guys working twelve-hour days down at the Jiffy Lube, not the wealthy, educated guys like Rummy and Cheney who actually order the bombs dropped. And so on.

We see this strategy of displacement all the time here on DU: I remember a thread started at the beginning of the current war entitled: "I hope the rednecks are happy--they got their war." Sure, baby, those rich, expensively dressed guys in the White House and the American Enterprise Institute had nothing to do with it. It was that guy over there in the pickup truck who did it.

Frankly, I think that words like "redneck" and "white trash" have no place in the vocabularies of decent people. There are too many terms of opprobrium that do not attack people, directly or indirectly, for being poor, to resort to the ones that insult good Democrats, like my father, who was often called a "redneck" when he was growing up because he was poor and country.

[Tyler Durden]

22. Here's another one: South African BOER origin, slang for a Brit Soldier.

The Boers in South Africa referred to the British Soldiers as "Rednecks" during the Zulu War.

It was also used as common slang within other armies of the British Empire for a soldier actually from the English Army.

As to "I hope the rednecks are happy--they got their war." , YOU'RE DAMNED FUCKING RIGHT. Support for George Bush did not appear from a vacuum: he directly appealed to this segment of the populace AND THEY SUPPORTED HIM, AND HIS FUCKING WAR.

The only good thing they can do now in my not so humble opinion is help to start the Revolution which unfortunately is starting to look like the only way these fascists will truly get deposed.

Let them STOP supporting Bush; THEN I'll grant them some respect.

[QC]

32. "Them." "They." You love that broad brush, don't you?

The only income demographic Kerry won was voters under $50k. Bush carried all the more affluent income demographics. This notion that his support consists solely of working-class whites in the South is popular and (for some) comforting, but in the end, it's bullshit, and it's deadly politically.

Bush had enormous support from middle-class voters. Many working-class voters did not and do not support him. There are large swaths of Appalachia that are Democratic and big chunks or northern and western suburbia that are solidly Republican. Those are the facts, as uncomfortable as they might be to some.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. The broad brush is so popular at DU

that it ought to be the DU emblem.

[Leopolds Ghost]

43. Question: Did Working-Class Whites (esp. men) vote for Kerry?

The truth is that strictly Scots-Irish rural folks have always tended to be conservative, anti-government of the non-populist variety (read: Calvinists and "rugged individualists".) This is most clearly illustrated in the curious geographical and homogeneous makeup of the Great Valley region stretching from Alabama to Lake Champlain:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Geography_of_the_Eastern_United_States

I'm descended from some of these folks (my grandmother was a direct descendant of Robert the Bruce.) However, my mom's family were German Pietests and Lutherans, on the opposite end of the 18th century political spectrum.

[QC]

45. Some did, some did not.

That's why broad-brush statements are not useful. It's funny, but people who would sooner die than approach any other group as though it is a monolith have no problem doing it with this one. I know working-class guys who think that the Republicans are the best thing since sliced bread and others who despise them.

What is more, Tyler has no way of knowing how the guy in his example voted. He looks at the man's choice of clothing and transportation, declares it tacky, and assumes that he knows all about them. That's downright silly. There are plenty of terrible people in the world who have exquisite taste, you know, and last time I saw Chomsky on tv, he wasn't dressed very stylishly at all.

[Tyler Durden]

52. Guess that "W '04" sticker on his "Dually" was for fun, right?

Or maybe that "Sportsmen for Bush" one I forgot to mention.

[QC]

53. Point taken--I forgot about the sticker.

Would he have aroused your ire as much if he had been dressed in L.L. Bean and driving a Volvo with a Bush sticker on it? I honestly can't see the relevance of his taste in clothing and vehicles.

[Tyler Durden]

55. This was about "REDNECKS" as I recall...

..and YES, the assholes in volvos with the Bush stickers on them piss me off too.

The RELAVENCE is in the subject.

And for all of us, the subject should be EVERYONE VOTES so WE DON'T LOSE ANYMORE.

Let's ALL stop picking nits and herding cats.

[Tyler Durden]

48. There are currently TWO broad brushes that count.

REPUBLICANS and DEMOCRATS.

AND it's high time you recognized another couple of "BROAD BRUSHES":

the RULERS and the POWERLESS.

Sorry, QC. I don't see a lot of your "working class" voters in those "RED" states having supported Kerry.

[QC]

51. And if we are actually interested in winning some elections,

we are going to have to turn some of those so-called "red states" blue, aren't we?

If you think that the way to do that is to declare that the people in those states are tacky and thus beneath our interest, then, well, I think you're mistaken.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

34. Here here!

[ultraist]

39. "attacking people because they are poor"

That ranks right up there with mocking people who have disabilities. NOT progressive, at all.

The fact is, the large majority of people in poverty and low income voters vote Democratic.

To insult people for not being of a certain socio-economic class is very elitist. NOT progressive, at all.

[Leopolds Ghost]

40. Agreed... I like to complain about "Rednecks"...

But only because many poor, working class Protestants of Scots-Irish descent really have bought into the whole Calvinist, xenophobic mentality. They are being used... that has been true since before the Civil War. One of the reasons people feared Reconstruction and Southern populism so much is they feared what would happen if the Blacks and the poor Scots-Irish put aside their differences. Scots-Irish living in the north were much better off because there was more land available to homestead on. That is why the entire Great Valley (behind the blue ridge, a continuous valley running from Lake Champlain to Alabama) was populated by prosperous, extremely conservative, Scots-Irish Revolutionary War veterans, many of whom were originally tax resisters that participated in stuff like the Whiskey Rebellion and have a natural antipathy towards government.

For more information on the geography of the Great Valley region and its unusual homogeneity, see:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Geography_of_the_Eastern_United_States

[SPKrazy]

42. Best Post I've Seen Today!

:yourock:

Sure there are other uses of the word redneck.

But you are spot on with your post!

Great!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

46. Great post!

It's time for the elitism and class hatred that many "progressives" display to stop.

[centristo]

20. remember

if its not scottish its CRAP!

[Leopolds Ghost]

44. Dooh yeh mean... CRRRRRRap? n/t

[Harald Ragnarsson]

25. And if it's not Scottish, it's CRAP! n/t

[Kolesar]

27. Well, that post covered a lot of ground ... eom

[Cats Against Frist]

28. Hmm. According to Daniel Elizar's theory of political cleavage

I think -- if I remember correctly -- that it was mainly the Scotch/English/Irish contingent that settled the South. European mainlanders got the middle and upper swath, and the French got Canada. Would make sense, I guess.

[CottonBear]

30. Don't forget the Spanish in FL, LA, TX, CA and the Southwest!

The Spanish & French founded New Orleans!

[baby_mouse]

31. YOU ARE CORRECT.

I applaud your focus, sir.

REPEAT this point, please, at intervals you deem appropriate.

[sasha031]

33. both my grandparents were imagrints

grandfather Scot, grandmother Irish(Ulster)...they were very liberal in may respects...but of course we never lived in the south.

[DemBones DemBones]

38. Well, that makes all the difference --

if you'd ever lived in the South, you'd have become redneck racists.

:sarcasm:

[SPKrazy]

49. You Have To Remember The Legacy Of The South

And the rednecks weren't the slave owners, they were owned by plantation owners mostly, not the poor or sharecroppers.

Southern poor may have been party to racism, but remember that even Lincoln originally wasn't going to emancipate the slaves. They were part of the economic system. Not a good part, mind you.

Civil War was fought for many reasons. Largely the north didn't want to lose the South's economy as both were dependent on each other.

Slavery was only one issue.

Lincoln was a Republican, the South became strongly democratic in opposition to that.

The south is largely Republican today because of the Civil rights support that the Democratic party took on in the 60's. Many "rednecks" may vote republican now, but not all do. And remember, the rednecks are still not the "rich" that benefit from Republican policies. What we as democrats need to do is to find a way to reach "redneck" voters. Reverse the Right Wing Brainwashing that has been done on issues like guns, etc.

[sasha031]

54. Absolutely Southpawkicker

I didn't mean to offend the south, I answered that post too quickly just giving my own immediate family background.

the thing that I have often wondered about, the Scots and Irish have for centuries suffered under brutal oppression under the UK and to this day they remember and understand it. The ones that immigrated to the US were escaping the chains of autocracy.

Second and the following generations failed to learn the lessons of those that came before us (me included until recently) that if you embrace corporacy, thinking it's Democracy, you end up in the same situation that our ancestors fled from.

The Civil Rights Movement was about all of us, the autocracy always wants to divide us, whether it's color, gender, religious affiliation. It's the only way they can succeed...

[Leopolds Ghost]

35. YES...some of my ancestors. And are they related to Irish Presbyterians

In Northern Ireland during the Troubles? Orangemen, anybody???

I'm a direct descendant of Robert the Bruce, but I can't help but notice how misguided some "rednecks" seem to have fallen in their misguided Calvinism. It is a macho combination of rigid community repression and boundless individualism for the male head of household.

Couple that with a hypocritical social conservatism that doesn't prevent a single one of these guys from whooping it up.

That's the source of a lot of the "old line conservatism" you find in Southern Appalachia, Indiana, and the South.

Governor Bilbo of Alabama was from the poorest county in Alabama, consistently over the past 150 years. Lily-white. They had to be pressed into service in the Civil War, because the only thing they hated worse than blacks, was slave owners (read: white Anglo-Saxons with money.) Not much different than their anti-Brit relatives in Scotland, really.

[trof]

47. Now you've gone and done it.

Taken away the last vestige of our southern heritage and culture.
Next you'll be telling me that NASCAR was the brainchild of yankee Detroit.
:-(

[MadHound]

50. Sorry, but you're giving up waaaay to easily

I live in redneck country, hell, the county I live in just rejoined the Union ten years ago. And you know what, you can and do get rednecks to vote Democratic, but it is all in how you approach them. It takes appealling to their common sense, their sense of right and wrong, and pointing out how economics do indeed effect them.

It takes talking to them one on one, not talking down to them or trying to prove one's intellectual superiority. Relating to them and their concerns, and just being plain ol' ordinary folks. These people may be uneducated, but not all of them are stupid.

I've gotten many a redneck former 'Pug and Bush supporter to see the light, and if you approach it right, it isn't that hard. And remember, some of the biggest progressive movements came out of Kansas and the Midwest, redneck heaven.

[PBass]

58. I agree, with Madhound, and I don't like the divisive attitude

A lot of red staters are voting against their own best interests. Democrats should not compromise their progressive values, but the crux is that we need to do a better job getting the Democratic message out. This is going to take time and patience.

I don't see the point of dismissing an entire segment of America, that seems pretty short-sighted (and elitist). We need to vigorously maintain and defend our progressive values, sure, but we should also be the party with big hearts, and a big tent.