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Kurt Vonnegut: Our president is a Christian? So was Adolf Hitler.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:08 PM
Original message
Kurt Vonnegut: Our president is a Christian? So was Adolf Hitler.
WOW!!! Get 'em Vonnegut!




"Do unto others what you would have them do unto you." A lot of people think Jesus said that, because it is so much the sort of thing Jesus liked to say. But it was actually said by Confucius, a Chinese philosopher, five hundred years before there was that greatest and most humane of human beings, named Jesus Christ.

<snip>

For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that's Moses, not Jesus. I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere.

"Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon? Give me a break!

But I myself feel that our country, for whose Constitution I fought in a just war, might as well have been invaded by Martians and body snatchers. Sometimes I wish it had been. What has happened instead is that it was taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d'état imaginable.

<snip>

was once asked if I had any ideas for a really scary reality TV show. I have one reality show that would really make your hair stand on end: "C-Students from Yale".

George W Bush has gathered around him upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka Christians, and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or PPs, the medical term for smart, personable people who have no consciences.

To say somebody is a PP is to make a perfectly respectable diagnosis, like saying he or she has appendicitis or athlete's foot. The classic medical text on PPs is The Mask of Sanity by Dr Hervey Cleckley, a clinical professor of psychiatry at the Medical College of Georgia, published in 1941. Read it!

<snip>

And what syndrome better describes so many executives at Enron and WorldCom and on and on, who have enriched themselves while ruining their employees and investors and country and who still feel as pure as the driven snow, no matter what anybody may say to or about them? And they are waging a war that is making billionaires out of millionaires, and trillionaires out of billionaires, and they own television, and they bankroll George Bush, and not because he's against gay marriage.

So many of these heartless PPs now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick. They have taken charge. They have taken charge of communications and the schools, so we might as well be Poland under occupation.

<snip>

Our president is a Christian? So was Adolf Hitler. What can be said to our young people, now that psychopathic personalities, which is to say persons without consciences, without senses of pity or shame, have taken all the money in the treasuries of our government and corporations, and made it all their own?

http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,,1691370,00.html
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Our President claims to be a Christian. Personally, I have not
seen anything in his actions that would support that claim.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That makes 3 of us, Granny.
My Christian mother says the same thing. She's NOT happy that they throw that around like a wet towel.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Nor am I because there are many of us who are Christians AND
life long Democrats. * and his ilk are an insult to any thinking Christians.
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Larissa238 Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Are you kidding me?
nepotism, favoritism, greed, pride... everything that a good Christian has.

Not what Jesus intended, but yeah, people just use his name nowadays, and not what he preached.

Just like the war in Iraq is in the memory of 9-11.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. They cherry-pick their scriptures just like they Bush cherry-picked
his intelligence.
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Larissa238 Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. with about the same result.
Corruption and stupidity all around.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. Yup. Chinese-menu Christians, one and all nt
.
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kcwayne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
88. Every Christian cherry picks scripture, with its barbarisms and
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 04:19 PM by kcwayne
irrationality. If you are even remotely rational, you have to discard the iron age ignorance and downright stupidity of many edicts in the bible. Unless of course you believe that stoning witches to death, smiting people that eat pork on a sabbath day, and selling the wives and daughters of conquered enemies into slavery is truly the revealed word of an omnipotent diety capable of creating universes. Once you make that leap from irrationality, you have cherry picked your precious holy book.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. But but but he's against gay marriage! He hates the same people God hates!
:sarcasm:
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. Never do we seen him coming out of a church
like most Presidents. "claims" is right. His actions speak way louder than his words.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
73. In all sincerity, I cannot think of anything that remotely resembles...
the teachings of Jesus in the Bush administration.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #73
86. I am hard pressed to find christs teachings in most christians
particularly the fundamentalist and evangelical variants.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. There was only one true christian, and he died on the cross.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
62. According to Betrand Russell
Nietzche forgot about Baruch Spinoza...
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hmmm...
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Hmmm ...


Actual propaganda poster conflating Hitler with Jesus Christ (the dove). Text, "Long Live Germany"
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. Wow
So many repeated, and over-whelming similarities. Like a cult.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
69. Hmmmmm.........
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. I so love Kurt!
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 05:23 PM by leftchick
He and Elmore Leonard are a couple of my all time favorite authors! Thank you for posting this.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Love them both.
I was waiting tables about a hundred years ago :sarcasm: when I lived in Indianapolis. I kept thinking "why does this customer look SO familiar." It was Kurt Vonnegut. Now, I am no star-fucker, but I HAD to tell him how much I adored him. He was very gracious. Indianapolis is home to a large German-American crowd and that is where he was born. :-)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. that is so cool!
That is a moment to remember forever. :)
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Indeed.
I can still remember what he was wearing, what he ate and where he was sitting.
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
78. Oh, so do I ! For me, he's an iconic spirit in American letters...
I'll never forget the effect 'Slaughterhouse Five' had on me the first time I read it--I was literally blown away. It's been part of my mental landscape ever since. Then came 'Breakfast of Champions', 'Goodbye Blue Monday'--"and so it goes". :loveya: SG
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you for sharing
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One Voice Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wow n/t
:applause:
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Hey BlueInIndiana2!!!
A belated welcome to DU!!! :hi:

I used to live in Indiana. I feel your pain. :hug:
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One Voice Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hey im10ashus...
Thank you for the welcome! :hi:

Yea, it is a pain, but better than where I'm from, TX.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I've lived there too.
San Antonio. I know it's frustrating but there's hope. We always have the hope that Indiana goes blue some day. Keep your eyes peeled for Vonnegut. He's from Indy. :-)
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. The pen is mightier than the sword!
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
83. Or in Clinton's case
the penis is mighter than the sword
:evilgrin:
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reality based Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Or as Jesus said
"I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. ...I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment." Matthew 25:43, 45-46 (NIV)

I think of this passage when I see the pictures from Abu Ghraib.

Thanks for the post and link.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. That one goes through my head several times a day!
Most of my extended family supports this ongoing atrocity-in-Jesus'-name.

If I believed in a hell, I'd be certain they were going there.

As it is, I'm pretty certain they're creating hell here.

Either way, to hell with them!
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. that is so right on
PPs - psychopathic personalities, or PPs, the medical term for smart, personable people who have no consciences.

I have worked along side a few male doctors who were like that too. Exceptional minds, but completely selfish egos. And people looked up to them for the most part. Winning is everything with some people.

It is too bad some heart-felt Christians don't call out Bush and his ilk on their hypocrisy.


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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bwahahahaha!!!
Kick so I remember to read this later when I have more time.

I love Vonnegut. He can say whatever the fuck he wants. He's a genius, and he's old (by which I mean wise ;) ). I love that man!!!
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GDAEx2 Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. as far as hitler and Christianity goes...
..did anyone see "Bonhoeffer" last week on PBS?
A remarkable documentary on the nazification of Germany's churches and Dietrich Bonhoeffer's stand against it.
Amazing.
http://www.pbs.org/bonhoeffer/
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Rats I missed it. But I'll watch for the re-run, thanks for posting and
Welcome to DU!
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bumblebee1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. I saw that last Sundayevening/Monday morning
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
93. Hi GDAEx2!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. I love him!
I can't wait for this to come out in paperback.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Vonnegut is pure genius...
He's one of the great lights of literature, Slaughterhouse Five is one of my favorite novels of all time.

I could not imagine what it would be like to go into SH5 in Dresden and emerge to complete ash the next day...:(
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. He has the experience and he speaks the truth.
Our #1 and #2, with their combined deferments and AWOL's, are a shame and a disgrace to all who have served. I can say that proudly because I have served. Just not in a war and certainly not to the extend our dear Mr. vonnegut. SH5 is a great book. I've also seen a pretty kick-ass production of a play at The Steppenwolf in Chicago.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. In 1,500 words, he distilled all the chaos and controversy to the heart of
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 06:10 PM by smartvoter
the matter. Few "greats" deserve the title. He does.

This should be required reading.
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. Brilliant man. One of my favorites writer's by far.
Thanks for posting some of his quotes.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. Damn he's awesome! And a U. of Iowa faculty member to boot!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
32. K&R n/t
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
33. I have been patiently waiting
for the copy at my library to come back. There is a long list for it. I have read just about everything else he has done and am a big fan. Does he have any connection to Kalamazoo Mi. It seems to me that maybe breakfast of champions or another story has a scene or two there. I wonder because there is a Kilgore ave there. Kilgore was a character of his if I recall correctly. Anyone know?
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. yes
Kilgore Trout is a recurring character in some of his novels. And i think Kalamazoo was in Breakfast of Champions, but i don't know if he has any connection to there. It's just fun to say Kalamazoo... you don't need to be from there to enjoy saying it and/or writing it.
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I lived outside of there for a year
and grew up within 50 miles of Kzoo. They are very progressive. Recently they approved a deal that guarantees tuition for graduates of their public schools. I have kind of lost track of the particulars but I was very impressed at the time.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. He's a great writer.
I have heard that Kalamazoo is quite progressive. At least by Midwest standards. I grew up in Indianapolis. Have never been to K-zoo though.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
77. I live two miles from Kzoo
and lived in Kzoo proper for about ten years or so. We have another Kalamazooan here too, besides me.

Kalamazoo is ideed a firly progressive town. Just a couple years ago some bigots tried to get a local ordinance passed that would have allowed landlords in Kalamazoo to refuse to rent based on sexual orientation. It was, as I recall, either voted down or never made it to the ballot.

The Kalamazoo Promise is an action by a group of anonymous donors to guarantee all students in Kalamazoo public schools up to full college tuition to any university or college in Michigan, based upon the number of years that student was in the public school system. Predictably, homeschoolers and religious schoolers are yasmmering about not being included. Well, duh. They don't deserve to be included, so they're not.

Also predictably- they're the only ones complaining, and looking like damn ungracious idiots to boot. Serves 'em right, if you ask me....
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
39. Adolf Hitler was an avowed atheist. He did, however, understand the
innate ability of the church to control the people, and he used this to his advantage.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. That's false...
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

--Mein Kampf
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. You are correct.
Chillingly so.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #43
61. Maybe the "avowed" is false. The rest is true. nt
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Oh BULLFUCKING SHIT!!!!
Provide a single iota of evidence that he was an "avowed atheist".
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #39
51. Hitler may have been agnostic/atheist, but he was raised Catholic.
I'm not sure just where he thought he was going w/his original religous beliefs, but one thing is for sure, he started the religion of National Socialism. Most Sociologists class the nazi movement as a religious sect/cult. The true nazi accepted National Socialism as more than a political movement, it was something that was to be revered, w/Hitler as a savior figure.

To fall into that amoral abyss took concious thought. I find it incredible that people would actually go that route...:scared:
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
75. So were a lot of people who are not Christians. Hitler used religion bc
he knew the power it had over the masses. He was not a Christian.

Just because a man is quoted as invoking the Almighty does not mean he is a man of religious faith.

We, of all people, should know this.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. He also claimed to be vegetarian.
He apparently had more compassion for animals than humans.
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DetroitProle Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. he was a vegitarian because...
he had some intestinal disorders. Eating meat would make the place very gassy. Not endearing for the fuhrer.
To boot, he wasn't a good vegetarian. He still ate meat when he could get away with it, that is, not clearing out the room.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Interesting! I've never heard that before.
Well it only makes sense. He would eat the animal if he could.

By the way, welcome to DU!! :hi:
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #80
89. I read that he was a vegetarian because...
a female relative of his with whom he was very close died and the next time he sat down to a meal, he said the meat reminded him of a dead body and he couldn't eat it.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #75
91. He was not a Christian, but he was raised Catholic, big difference there
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 06:02 PM by rasputin1952
as one can remove the mantle of the religion they were taught at any given time.

Hitler used a few methods to create the religion of National Socialism; nazi's were more than a political movement, they were a cult based on several aspects from several religions, not the least of these being from what he learned as a Catholic about the power of religion. Catholics do not profess to employ hate as one of their driving forces, Hitler took some of the aspects to motivate people to drive his agenda, (which was a lot more than just killing off the Jews of the world. Hitler saw himself as a Messiah, and was going to reach that status any way he could.

Many, not all, nazi's worshiped the Swastika and other emblems of the nazi party...far too many, (one is too many IMO), worshiped Hitler not as a man, but a god-like figure. There are many of these types of things going on today as well; Sun Myung Moon is a perfect example.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #75
94. so... he said he was a Christian; see post 43
What evidence do you have that he wasn't a Christian?

Is it that he was a bad guy, so he must be part of a different religion?
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
40. I love his honesty
Not to mention that he wrote the best science fiction novel ever...Slaughterhouse 5
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Which is sort of ironic.
SH-5 was based on his experiences at Dresden. Something Thing 1 and Thing 2 will never be able to say.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
42. Remember so was Torquemada, who brought us
The Inquisition. I understand he was into torture as well. No doubt his notebook is what our torturers build their art on today. Torquemada actually perfected administering excruciating pain without killing the victim until he was no longer needed alive. Wasn't there something our torturers said about not causing organ failure? Otherwise it was a fraternity prank according to one of our RW nuts.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Great cross-reference!!!
What made Torquemada so compelling a figure was his Jewish heritage and yet he was expelling Jews from Spain. We could start a whole thread on him.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
50. That's My Man Kurt!
Love him!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
52. I'm with Kurt...yet again. I love him too.
thank you.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
53. Kurt Vonnegut is the best! K and R
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 01:04 AM by ClayZ
:kick:
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #53
65. Love the picture!!!


What a guy!!!
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
54. One of my favorite writes
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Kurt signed the WorldCantWait statement
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. Mine too.
He truly inspires.

How are you feeling lala_rawraw? :hi:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
56. But, often with tears in their eyes,
"But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that's Moses, not Jesus. I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere."---KV

LOVE that line, and I plan on using it frequently!
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
58. This is how you fight Fundie-pseudo-christianity
was once asked if I had any ideas for a really scary reality TV show. I have one reality show that would really make your hair stand on end: "C-Students from Yale".

George W Bush has gathered around him upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka Christians, and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or PPs, the medical term for smart, personable people who have no consciences.

Brilliant Vonnegut!!:yourock:
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
59. Kicking again!
:kick:
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
60. Saw his PBS NOW interview
and he made a hell of an argument for secular humanism. Whether Jesus was the son of God or not or if there is a God or not he was a remarkable human being - focus on the acts and the deeds.

The interview was great.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
63. Does anyone know what particular Christian denomination
W claims as his own?
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Methodist.
He, Cheney, and John Edwards claim Methodist. I remember that from the 2004 campaign.
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AbbyR Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. I know an awful lot of very good Methodist folks
who are horrified that W claims them. They surely do not claim him.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Same here.
I know they shudder every time they hear that mentioned. Bless their hearts.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I know the feeling. As an American....... nt
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DetroitProle Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
81. Bush isn't even practicing...
Isn't the trait of a good/devout something someone who is active in their congregation/religious group? Especially in evangelical terms.
Bush actually doesn't even adhear to a Methodist congregation anymore. When he does go to church, he goes to St. John's Episcopal, the "default" church of the presidents. Nearly ever president has gone there(Episcopal or not, out of tradition). So basically, its just for show, in his case.
It should come as no surprise. Any idiot could tell that frat-boy Bush has no time for any sort of spiritual persuit.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. That I don't know.
I seem to remember something about being raised episcopal and that methodist was Laura's church, originally, and probably where Bush went after the glug glug sniff sniff period. I suspect his church membership is much like god himself, that is, not immediately evident to the senses and if existing at all on a fairly abstract level. Like Bush's ANG service.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
84. Do Methodists believe in that whole "blessed are the peacemakers" stuff?
just asking...
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DetroitProle Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. the Methodist Church...
was against the Iraq war, like every Church other than the Southern Baptists(surprise).
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Teh point of the article I read
was how diverse the Methodist church is, having Bush and H. Clinton, John Edwards, Cheney. But as to the blessed are the peacemakers stuff, remember what Reagan called the MX missile. Now Reagan, HE NEVER went to sunday services. Not even for show, not once during his public life.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
70. KV's book was the January Book Club title.
Discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=209&topic_id=3046&mesg_id=3046


If you read the book, please feel free to comment. Book Club threads are not archived & frequently an older thread will pop-to-the-top with new comments.

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Thanks CrispyQGirl!!!
I've not read it but it is in my queue! :yourock:
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
71. Great Post!
K&R
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
74. Thank you Kurt. I'm off to buy your book.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
79. Oh sweet Jesus: save me from your so called followers.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #79
92. I was just listening to Jesus Christ Superstar.
And your line reminded me of that again.
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