Flash Forward 2008 - The world is in shambles.....

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Everyone in the world who doesn't hate us today, hates us now.

Civil wars are rampant in the middle east.

Everywhere, American flags are burned in effigy, even in Lichtenstein.


What kind of person will the world be craving for to lead us out of the abyss?

Someone with a world view.

Someone with gravitas.

Someone who opposed an illegal, preemptive invasion of a sovereign nation from the start.

Someone with the intellectual girth to know almost instinctively what to do to pull us out.

Someone with strong courage of conviction that will not easily waver.

Someone untainted who has never sold their influence or their vote.

I see one person who fits this bill. General Clark.

[bigscott]

1. William Jefferson Clinton

Oh well:shrug:

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. Hmmm. Hey, what happened to that constitutional amendment

to let someone serve another term. Guess that was when they wanted George to be prez forever, huh. And then there was that amendment so that Arnold could be prez...

[smartvoter]

20. Never happen while Clinton's alive. nt

[EstimatedProphet]

2. Anyone with good leadership skills who isn't a Bushbot Repub

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Someone who thinks that "victory" is still possible in Iraq?

I think we can do better than having an ex-general who believes that we can "win" a lost war.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. Lordy, surely we will be out of there by then?

[madokie]

13. I wouldn't count on that, if we are it is because we forced their hand

[Laura PourMeADrink]

15. well, my morbid prediction has always been that we would get

out when the total number of deaths exceed the deaths due to 9-11.

[madokie]

16. I hope you are right, but, but the permanent bases suggest otherwise.

or are you saying that we will then rise up and demand we leave?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. yes. the people will final rise up. The permanent base thing is

confusing. I could have sworn I had read (think seymour hersh) that the bases were already being built. But then I heard just the opposite.

[madokie]

21. where do you reckon our troops went to when they left the green zone.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. Guess the meaning of "permanent " is very subjective, huh.

We know a doctor who was sent over to Iraq once and was scared shitless the whole time. His second tour (he came home from that yesterday) he said it was totally different - You are right. They were off somewhere else in a super-duper secure location.

[gordianot]

9. I have never heard anyone define victory or win in Iraq..

How can you have victory if you cannot even begin to define it? If the goal was to depose Saddam Hussein then that strategy worked. From this point no one can define what the goal of our presence in Iraq really is going to accomplish other than fix what we have created (civil war) which is not feasible, we have replaced one form of oppression for another, ignoring a culture we do not really understand.

Like the war in Vietnam, there are no defined goals, there cannot be defined goals. The dogs of war never learn.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. You are so right. There wasn't a true and altruistic purpose

to begin with. If we truly wanted to rid the world on a tyrant, we did it, let's get out. Just like Murtha says.

Who the hell knows what the neo-con agenda REALLY was. I tell you, I was so proud of Kerry yesterday. He is pushing for no permanent bases in Iraq. He pressed CON-di on it and of course she didn't come right out and say our policy was against it, but she half-way agreed with a general who said no permanent bases. At least Kerry's keeping the issue in the forefront..

[leeroysphitz]

6. " Someone who opposed an illegal, preemptive invasion",...

"FROM THE START"

Bingo! Someone with CREDIBILITY on this issue.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. Exactly. Right, and if you've heard him, he doesn't rub it in -

he dwells on how to get us out. I asked a republican why, after all the evidence that we got hoodwinked on the war, would people still stand by B**. They said, "Because many people hate to admit that they were wrong. And will stick with a losing cause to the bitter end."

P.S. Where'd you get the B** Pig avatar? love it.

[leeroysphitz]

17. made it up as a sticker for my car then shrunk it for D.U.

PM me with an email adress and I can send it to you as a gif.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. thanks.

[woodsprite]

7. I'm surrounded by people who think Jebby or McCain would be

a good choice. Of course, this is coming from a group of people who were talking about ways to improve the US and mentioned lynching 100-200 democrats would be a good start. I couldn't keep quiet about that, but I didn't complain to the people who were instigating. Instead, I sent an email to their boss complaining about the "hate" talk. The school pres. has a zero tolerance for hate crimes/language, etc. They seem quieter today after the meeting. ;)

Everyday I come to work and more than one person says something that makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Some people are buying clues, but it's still slow when I think the pace should be picking up. One of the group (a hunter) thinks that C should end up in jail. Not for any of the other stuff this admin has done, but because of the shooting. He told the others that since they condone C's actions, he will no longer hunt with them.

Well, at least something reached inside that tiny brain and flipped a switch.

BTW, I'd love to see Clark, Edwards, or Feingold run. I'm really liking the idea of a Clark/Feingold ticket.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Wow, I am surprised. I have heard hunters say, "Man, li'l birdshot

ain't never hurt nobody. Take it like a man. If you ain't drinkin beer while yur huntin, that just ain't american."

That's another good thing (to get indies and mod repubs)about Clark, he has no strong party affiliation

Wow, people talk like that in schools? where do you live?

Yes, I could support Clark and anyone else who doesn't go into the race with enormous baggage (i.e. Hil - 51% would NEVER vote for her and she is a poster child for opposition hatred)

[Clara T]

12. Time to stop looking for "A Person"

to lead us anywhere. Too likely "We'll" turn into followers. More specifically definitely looking towards someone who has internalized all the paternalistic hierarchical machinations of the Military-Industrial complex is completely off the mark in a world already controlled and in ruins by militarism.

No more Father Figures.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

14. I agree it takes a number of leaders. But, if you are thinking that

we will become a predominately pacifist nation (like the countries who would not participate in the coaltion of the willing), unfortunately, I don't see it happening for years and years. I hope it happens in our lifetime. Unless there is a total catastrophe, there are too many people who now believe in the "just wipe them off the face of the earth thinking." That is why Clark is so perfect - he can help change opinion because he has the credentials. He believes in diplomacy first. And, he led the effort in Kosovo without losing a single soldier.

[sandnsea]

23. John Forbes Kerry

Because he never supported Ronald Reagan and YES that really does matter, particularly with your own world in a shambles view because Ronald Reagan and his proxy wars were a big cause of it, and Wes Clark was smack dab in the middle of it all.