Serious issues with the Cheney storyline that the MSM are not asking!

[Julius Civitatus]

If we had a truly free and competent press in this country, which we lost a long time ago, our media would be asking a lot of serious questions about the fairy tale that Cheney has told about the incident last Sunday, when he shot a 78-year old in the face:

• Why were Cheney and Whittington in a "hunting outing" with two other women, not their wives? If these women are married, where were their husbands? In the words of GOP apologist Peggy Noonan: "It would be irresponsible not to speculate."
  
  
• Why is Lynne Cheney so silent? Where is she?
  
  
• Booze. The ranch owner mentioned there were "one or two beers involved." Cheney himself has vaguely confessed he may have had "a beer for lunch" prior to the shooting.
  
  
• Dick Cheney is under heavy heart medication, and wear a portable defibrillator. He also has a long history of DUI and problems with alcohol.
  
  - Is this proper?
  - Is this responsible behavior from Mr. Gravitas?
  - What kind of interactions and counter-effects do these drugs produce when mixed with alcohol?
  - Why is a so-called "responsible" adult with troubling health issues mixing his drugs with alcohol?
  - Armstrong mentioned they got to the scene of the shooting in a car. Who was driving? Did this person drink as well?
  
  
• Dick Cheney and the report submitted to the press specifies the shooting incident took place at 30 yards (about 90')... but ballistic experts (many listed in these boards) discredit that storyline as fiction: the type of shotgun and birdshot pellets used by Cheney do not support that theory. The shooting had to happen at a much closer range to produce such tremendous damage to Mr. Whittington.
  
  Yesterday Cheney mentioned in his Fox News whitewash interview that the incident took place at 30 feet. What is it, 30 yards or 30 feet? Will the goalpost keep moving until we get the real story?
  
  
• According to the reports, the private security employees of the ranch owned by Ms. Armstrong refused entry to the local authorities and turned away the local police from the scene of the shooting. The police didn't have access to the scene until much later.
  
  - Is it normal in Texas to tell the police to turn away from a potential crime scene?
  - Does the Texas police just politely apologize and walk away from the scene of a crime if they are told to go?
  - Is it common in Texas for private rent-a-guards to tell policemen to go away?
  
  
• Even more puzzling is the fact that when the police finally accessed the scene of the shooting, they immediately exonerated Cheney of any wrongdoing, declared no crime had been committed, and that the case would not be further pursued.
  
  - Is this what is called "Texas justice"?
  - Would the police issue the same statement if the incident didn't involve a notoriously corrupt, powerful and bullying VP from their own state?
  - Would the results of their "investigation" had been the same if the shooter was a regular guy?
  - Would the results of their "investigation" had been the same if the shooter was a Black or Chicano man?
  - Do Texan authorities they care how badly this looks to the world?
  
  
• For the first 24 hours Cheney did not inform the press about the incident, and was eventually leaked out to the press by Ms. Armstrong. Cheney didn't even inform George W. Bush about it until Monday. Cheney took 4 full days to make any public statements about the incident, and in his first comments Cheney blatantly blamed Mr. Whittington for "getting in his way" during the hunting. Later on Fox, Cheney reluctantly and uncomfortably took the blame. The whole thing was handled in secrecy, with obvious lies, misstatements, and storylines that change by the day.
  
  The official release by Cheney's staff informed us Whittington was just "peppered" with birdshot from 90 feet away (30 yards) and was just "doing fine" and "recovering well." The doctor making these misleading statements happened to be a born-again evangelical, and strong supporter of Cheney. Later we found out his torso and face received more than 200 pellet shots. Later we find out Mr. Whittington had a mild heart attack, and that pellets are lodged in his heart and liver.
  
  - Is this how a sitting VP should handle such a serious matter?
  - Why keep such event in secret, knowing this all would come out and embarrass him even further?
  - Is everything Cheney does shrouded in secrecy and manipulation?
  - What else did he lie about?
  - Can a doctor lose his license for purposefully lying and making misleading statements about the health of a shooting victim?

If we had journalists and reporters with any galls, they would be DEMANDING answers for all these questions, relentlessly, until all of them are satisfactorily answered.

I doubt it would happen. No oral sex with an intern was involved.

[Julius Civitatus]

1. Please nominate, recommend and pass along!

These questions need answers, and Cheney and his people are spreading a fairy tale.

Even the reptilian Mary Matalin was on the news yesterday telling her own fairy tale about the incident that completely contradicts the official story. They trampling over each other with excuses, lies, and conflicting bullshit stories that do not even make sense.

Pass it along!

[wicket]

6. done and done!

:kick:

[jermacc8888]

109. Cheney shoots - what's new?

So "Go F***K Yourself" shoots someone in the face! What's new? He's shot the nation in the face many times.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cronus Protagonist]

114. Deadeye Dick's Dastardly Deed :- A Snapshot In Time

[seabeyond]

2. you put your time to good use. thank you. excellent.

i am going to keep this, since you did so much work, and thought. will save me a lot of time if someone needs some questions to be asking themselves too.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. You are exactly right!

The MSM is putting the kybosh on this story as they have for most all of BushCo's crimes.

I believe that Darth Cheney and Smirky could be filmed drinking straight from a bottle of Jack Daniels while having a cookout on the White House lawn with naked, underage strippers throwing live Golden Retriever puppies into the air as skeet targets for the drunken pair and the MSM would respond by beginning a marathon, round the clock live coverage of some guy that got his tallywhacker glued to his leg in Possum Trot, Kentucky by his Wal-Mart workin' girlfriend.

[PurpleChez]

63. I'm laughing my fool ass off!

I've made a similar observation that bush could be caught on videotape molesting make-a-wish kids in a bathroom at disney world, and the freepers would find a way to blame the children while insisting that bush has the constitutional right to molest terminally ill kids. There are very few people who prompt me to say "rot in hell," but when I look at bush and cheney I think "rot in hell." There is no misery that could befall them that would make me feel an ounce of sympathy -- not for them.

[LuckyLib]

90. LOL! Your quote is now on my office door!

[dogday]

4. Where exactly was Bush when this happened

and when did Cheney decide to call shrub and inform him of this?

[Julius Civitatus]

7. According to the reports I've read...

Cheney called Dubya on Monday to tell him about the mess.

Notice that within the WH, Bush is always the last to know. Nobody gives a shit. He doesn't even give a shit as long as he's on his bike or working out on the treadmill.

It's not the first time that in the middle of a serious incident. Cheney takes the wheel, starts manipulating and ordering the staff around what to do, and later on Bush is informed. It's always like that, and tells you clearly who's in control, and who's just a figurehead.

[txindy]

5. Good questions there.

:kick: and rec'd. :patriot:

[Dhalgren]

8. Great post! K&R!

[Wordie]

9. Ques.#1: should man w/itchy trigger finger, poor health/judgement be VP?

That's the only question that matters.

[Julius Civitatus]

11. Great point n/t

[daleo]

10. It is time for an inquest

The sort where people have to testify under oath, get cross-examined, expert witnesses testify, etc.

[dogday]

13. Testify Under Oath-They don't need no stinking oath

they won't do it, can't be truthful. I cannot believe people just buy this shit...

[Norquist Nemesis]

12. Another question: Was this a gift from a Lobbyist?

Or were the American taxpayers paying for Dick to schmooze with a Lobby-hosted gathering?

[TexasLawyer]

17. The ranch owner is a lobbyist,

whose mother hired hired Cheney to work at Halliburton.

No, I don't think there's anything to that angle. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
Nothing to see here, people. Move along!

[Harald Ragnarsson]

14. No oral sex with an intern was involved

Well, we don't really know that do we? Although technically she was an ambassador not an intern.

My own feeling is this; if the story about a gay male prostitute was posing as a reporter attending WH press conferences and entering the WH over 200 times wasn't "news worthy"(must be like sponge worthy) then Cheney could have been hunting with the Swedish Bikini Team and the press wouldn't make a fricking sound about it.

[mom cat]

33. Are you sure? Was there sex between the VP and a lobbyist?

[blm]

15. WHA??? Two men spending VALENTINE WEEKEND with 2 women NOT THEIR WIVES

and no media wants to discuss this?

[humbled_opinion]

58. Heart patients normally receive...

VIAGRA... maybe you have something here...

[KurtNYC]

62. More detail has emerged on the guests - no scandal there

The other guests were Ms. Willeford, the ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, and her husband, George, a physician in Austin; Ben Love, a West Texas rancher whom Ms. Armstrong called her "beau"; her sister, Sarita Hixon, a Houston museum chairwoman, and her husband, Bob, an insurance executive; Nancy Negley, an art philanthropist whose family once controlled Brown & Root, now a part of Halliburton; and Mr. Whittington, a 78-year-old Austin lawyer, Republican stalwart and presiding officer of the Texas Funeral Service Commission, and his wife, Mercedes.

At first Ms. Armstrong declined to say who besides Mr. Cheney and her sister had been her guests, but she provided the names after The Austin American-Statesman learned of Ms. Willeford's presence. Ms. Willeford spoke Monday by phone but declined to be interviewed again Wednesday. Mrs. Hixon and Ms. Negley did not respond to several messages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/16/politics/16tock.html?pagewanted=print

[blm]

82. Contradicts earlier reports - why should I believe this 5 days later?

.

[rateyes]

85. The official police report supposedly mentions

all who were there, and there was no "George" anybody.

[WinkyDink]

98. And their payment was....?

Please. This report is as phony as...as...EVERYTHING BUSHCO SAYS!!

[pushycat]

16. Why didn't police question Secret Service + Cheney Med Team?

If they were the first on the scene to assist the downed man, why isn't any mention of them anywhere in any news account? They must have seen the whole thing, right? What are their statements? Has anyone gone back to the shooting scene since then to corroborate anything?

Why haven't any news accounts covered statements from the Whittington family? Do they agree with the WH claims of this all being Harry's fault?

LOTS of questions even a dummy might ask....

[Ganja Ninja]

19. If memory serves me the cops didn't come out until ...

8:00 pm that evening and were blocked by the Secret Service from interviewing the VP. They were not able to talk to Cheney until the next day. That just screams out COVER UP!
I'd like to see you or I after a car accident tell the cops to 'come back tomorrow for my breathalyzer'. We'd be hog tied and thrown in the back of a squad car so fast it would make your head spin.

[pushycat]

25. Yes! And we couldn't get another to speak for us either!!

And we couldn't LEAVE THE COUNTY until a proper investigation was done to determine whether the truth bore out our statements. Way too easy for the Dick..

[TexasLawyer]

18. We AT LEAST need

a $60 million investigation! There is a "stain" on the Presidency! This time, it's blood.

[Higans]

92. You mean the Blood from Iraq wasn't enough?

[TexasLawyer]

20. Time of day and temperature

February 11 was my birthday, so I am intimately familiar with the weather that day. It was too cold for the outdoor activities that I had planned. It was dark and dreary, and night came early. I live in Houston, but much of Texas was experiencing a cold snap.

At 5:30pm, when the accident happened, it would have been pretty dark and would have been getting very cold. Why was the VP shooting blind when it was so dark out to begin with? That is a time for extra caution, it would seem to me.


Or did the accident happened somewhat earlier in the day? I doubt that fat boy has the stamina to hunt all day, even with a luxurious lunch break. Especially if he ate a lot and drank a beer (or three).

[Julius Civitatus]

23. Here's the Veep's "stamina"

[mom cat]

35. Well, remember he was being driven around to "hunt". He had the ladies to

keep him warm and the "branch +"

[jean]

53. There was mention of the sun interfering with Cheney's vision at the time

of the shooting.

Is there a possibility the events were caught on satellite (like Google Earth) or some other form of aerial surveillance?

[momster]

94. The Sun Was In My Eyes

Oldest excuse in the book when it comes to major, major screwups -- from losing a baseball 'in the sun' to car accidents, driving east at 4:30 pm. Second oldest? "I only had one drink..."

Is this the best they can do?

[leftofthedial]

21. There are two major factors in the dick's coverup

1. The women. This was a sex and violence weekend with the mistresses.

2. The booze. The dick was so drunk it took him four days to sober up.


Family values.

[placton]

22. There is a math formula used

by forensics experts, which can determine within a few feet how far away a shotgun muzzle was from its victim - amazing the media does not pick up on this - especially in these days of CSI, etc

[Lasher]

111. Will you please share the formula, or provide a link?

I've been especially focused on this part of the escapade.

Edit: I'm tempted to see if I can borrow a 28 gauge with a Modified or Imporved Cylinder choke, so that I can do some test firing myself.

I've noticed in this message string that there were 200 pellets that struck Whittington. This number keeps changing - but if it's accurate, the range was very close, as there was a total of about 263 projectiles in the shell that Cheney fired.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=430265&mesg_id=430265

[Frank Cannon]

24. Kilo-Romeo

Very nice compilation, there. Surprised that Brit didn't ask Crashcart these questions last night. :eyes:

[Up2Late]

26. All excellent points, I hadn't even thought about the Women...

...or were Lynn is in all this. Did see her at the SOTU, but that's the last time.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

27. Why didn't Bush himself call Cheney and DEMAND an explanation!

Who is REALLY IN charge???

[PurpleChez]

64. They don't let Chimpy have a real phone.

Probably one of those musical pull-toys with a big smiley face like I had when I was a baby.

[MsUnderstood]

28. Great points! I borrowed some

I hope you don't mind, I borrowed some for a LTTE I just submitted:

Hey Media, Wake Up! Where are the hard questions? Dick Cheney shot a man so let’s put on our reporter hats and ask some real questions:

Cheney admitted to drinking alcohol before the incident. How does his heart medication mix with alcohol and what side effects could occur causing an error in judgment: medical experts please! And don’t forget to look up the medical definition of peppered: 200 pellets, some in the victim’s liver and heart, goes beyond “sprinkled or sprayed lightly”.

Some reports state Whittington was shot from 30 yards away while Dick Cheney said he was 30 feet away. What are the facts? Why would the police close the case and clear the shooter when discrepancies such as these exist—legal experts please!

Why were Cheney and Whittington on a "hunting outing" with two other women, not their wives? Where was Lynne Cheney—morality police please!

Our Vice President mishandled a gun, seriously wounded another person, delayed the investigation while on vacation with another woman. After illegally wire tapping American citizens, illegally torturing American citizens, and lying to American citizens, does this administration think Cheney’s negligent and immoral behavior is another day at the office?

[Pacifist Patriot]

34. Oh please let me know if your paper elects to print this!

[KAT119]

29. Great synthesis - K&R!

[hvn_nbr_2]

30. Media, Ministry of Propaganda, whatever, will never challenge the...

CCCP - Culture of Corruption, Cronyism, and Profiteering.

[klook]

45. CCCP - good acronym!

Cheney is the embodiment of the "Culture of Corruption, Cronyism, and Profiteering." :hangover:

[milkyway]

31. Police need to confiscate the laundry of Cheney's female companion and

test it for semen stains. America needs to know if there was a blowjob involved.

[Nimrod2005]

38. Blow job? cool, then we can impeach!!!

[OneBlueSky]

32. excellent summary of the "bullshit factors" . . . recommended . . . n/t

.

[mom cat]

36. And why no photos of the victim? He must still be a mess!

[FatDave]

54. Exactly my question.

Why haven't we seen the guy? No photos, no video, no statements. Little or nothing from his family even.

And this is the guy that was sitting up and joking with the nurses the next day? Please. If he was in that good of condition, they'd have filled his hospital room with news cameras to show that he was ok.

So I would add to the list of questions: "If Whittington is in such good shape, why have we not seen him?"

[7P Dude]

56. "no statements"

He said he doesn't know why there's such a big deal being made of it.

[FatDave]

81. Must have missed that

Can't seem to find it on a google search. If you'll provide a link, I'll gladly stand corrected.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

100. Close to 56

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021501133.html

"He's doing extremely well," said Peter Banko, a hospital vice president, who estimated that Whittington would remain hospitalized six more days. Whittington "still kind of wonders what all the hoopla is about," Banko said. "It's kind of much ado about nothing." David Blanchard, the hospital's emergency room chief, said he was "100 percent satisfied that where the BB is, it will remain."

[LuckyLib]

93. Today they boot you out of the hospital after major surgery

lots is donw on an outpatient basis. Being in intensive care means you're in tough shape. Spending days in the hospital means you are in tough shape. Cheney isn't out of the woods yet. Interesting that his family is silent, huh?

[mom cat]

95. People are afraid to cross the Emperor.

[momster]

96. Only "Stable?"

Why doesn't his condition ever change? He's always 'stable'. Until we see him, I'm not going to believe the guy's still breathing on his own. I bet, however, they'll keep him until his facial wounds have healed up. Can't have some poor old guy with a face like hamburger out until he won't scare the "security moms".

[jean]

55. You would think they'd opt for a Reagan-waving-from-the-window type

photo op, if the vicitm was at all up to it or presentable.

[mom cat]

97. Probably too many bandages and tubes.

[Julius Civitatus]

37. Another thing: why is Bush never informed during emergencies???

This has been a pattern of behavior since the early days.

- On 9/11, Dick was making all the decisions in the WH (including the decision to send fighter jets to shoot down any more hijacked planes if necessary), while Bush was hauling ass to Nebraska.

- Remember last year when a small plane entered DC airspace by mistake, and they issued a massive alert in the Capitol? Remember how the WH congress, senate and every other official buildings were evacuated? Cheney was in control, and he hauled ass from the WH in an armored vehicle with soldiers around to defend him.

Bush? He was actually on his bike during the whole mess, and wasn't even informed about the alarm until it was over.

- Cheney shoots a man last saturday. Bush informed two days later. Not a care in the world.

This is a very telling pattern of behavior: Bush is irrelevant in the Bush administration. He is a figurehead that reads the TelePrompter and signs what Cheney tells him to sign. Even on the most critical situations he is not even informed. Not even in the loop! And like during the DC scare alert of last year, they even left him behind, not even informing him of the potential danger.

We all knew Cheney was the guy in charge.

[Blue Belle]

39. Another question that no one has touched upon...

Are we to HONESTLY believe that a very wealthy 78 year old man hunting with the Vice President (a Vice President who for the past few weeks prior to his trip was walking around aided by a cane and is known to have a recent medical history of knee problems) are really going to walk fetch their OWN game? REALLY???

Does it give you more street cred if you actually have to pick up the farm raised target quail that you shot?

[Julius Civitatus]

40. More: Cheney KEPT DRINKING AFTER the shooting

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=441616&mesg_id=441616

[Harald Ragnarsson]

41. hee hee hee! Teetotaler!

Seriously, when do they get to the point where they just hold a sign under their face saying "I'm lying to you now!" as they give their statements to "reporters".

It can't be far off.

[Sequoia]

80. That's what bird dogs are for, so why no dogs.

That thought just occured to me but you brought up a good point. Why do you think Harry "got in his way"? This story gets worse as the days go by.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

42. Another MISSING BLONDE WHITE WOMAN - where is the media?

The St. Valentine's Massacre, otherwise known as the Valentine's weekend hunting trip involved Pamela Willeford, as your post mentions. She was apparently there without her husband and Big Dick was there without his wife. Pamela apparently was the "third shooter" in the St. Valentine's Massacre. I haven't seen one talking head mention her. She has apparently disappeared from the face of the earth. Where's Rita Cosby? Did Pamela board a midnight flight and escape the scene of the crime like the current media obsession Neil Entwhistle? Here, we have the perfect juicy missing blonde white woman story that the media loves to obsess over. Well? Where are the talking heads?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. Sorry, but it looks like Mr. Willeford was indeed there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x415333">blm's post got me thinking and I turned up this from a Dallas Morning News story Monday night:

On Monday, the third hunter in Mr. Cheney's hunting party said that she believes Mr. Cheney was not at fault.

"We really thought he was way back behind us," said Pamela Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland since October 2003.

She was on a brief vacation visiting her husband, Dr. George Willeford III, a gastroenterologist in Austin. Dr. Willeford was also hunting at the Armstrong ranch but in a different field at the time of the shooting about a mile away ...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021406dntexcheney2.b3af73d.html

I also thought there was something to hide here but apparently not.

[mainer]

44. WH at first didn't know Cheney was shooter. Attempted coverup?

This is the weird detail. Someone called the White House and told staff there that there'd been an accidental shooting involving "Cheney's hunting party." But no one told the White House for hours that Cheney himself was the SHOOTER.

I keep pondering this bizarre detail. I mean, why on earth wouldn't they mention that all-important fact?

Only explanation? Cheney and friends still thought they could hide the fact that Cheney did it. Maybe they were drawing straws, trying to see who'd take the blame. And then as the hours passed, they realized there were too many witnesses (i.e. Secret Service Agents) who'd refuse to lie under oath. So they finally had to go with the true identity of the shooter.

[7P Dude]

46. Answers to Parts I Have Experience With (if you care)

"Is this what is called "Texas justice"?"

It's nothing new. Hunting accidents are hunting accidents down here, nothing more. We don't ruin the lives of people over them. The typical response is for the family or victim to make sure everyone knows that they realize it was just an accident and they go on being friends.

"Would the police issue the same statement if the incident didn't involve a notoriously corrupt, powerful and bullying VP from their own state?"

No, the police would typically not even release a statement in a hunting accident. They would ask a few questions and be on with it.

"Would the results of their "investigation" had been the same if the shooter was a regular guy?"

Yes. People have been killed in hunting accidents in the past two years without so much as a misdemeanor or civil lawsuit. Those were guys who had the political connections of an earth worm. There has been A TON more coverage of this than a normal hunting accident.

"Would the results of their "investigation" had been the same if the shooter was a Black or Chicano man?"

Yes, one of those cited above was a Latino man who shot a white hunting partner. The main difference is the 'world' didn't care because the Chicano wasn't a political opponent.

It's strange that somebody would bring this up. This isn't the first time this has happened down here. Why are you making such a big deal about it this time? Why is this man who hasn't died more valuable to you than the people down here who actually died.

"Do Texan authorities they care how badly this looks to the world?"

No. They never have and doubt they ever will. This just makes us realize the 'world' is absolutely out of touch with things down here and doesn't care if a man is shot unless they can make political hay of it.

It also reinforces our famous mistrust of outsiders.

[FatDave]

60. No offense, but...

This just makes us realize the 'world' is absolutely out of touch with things down here...

Is it "the world's" job to be in touch with Texas? Or vice versa?

[7P Dude]

65. Right, us dumb hicks need to be educated...

You're just reinforcing it.

The way the original post implies we are all racists down here is absolutely despicable. The fact that there's never even 1% of the uproar when it's a Latino teenager who gets accidentally shot instead of a white lawyer getting shot by the VP only points out the total hypocrisy of this.

I'm saying that this is not even close the first time this has happened down here. We understand that shit happens. The only difference is this time, instead of some kid who works at the feed store shooting the gun, it's the VP so it's somehow supposed to be different.

We don't ruin people's lives over hunting accidents and we shouldn't. Cheney isn't getting special treatment by not being in jail, he's getting the same treatment everyone gets. However, people who have no clue what they are talking about seem to think every kid who shoots his friend while hunting hogs ought to be thrown in jail.

[FatDave]

69. All I'm saying is...

It's pretty self-centered to complain that the rest of the world is out of touch with Texas. I've never complained that the rest of the world was out of touch with Illinois. If there's a minority and a majority with differing opinions, and somebody is said to be "out of touch", it would have to be assumed that it's the minority that's out of touch. That doesn't mean that majority opinion is correct or right, mind you. I'm certainly "out of touch" with the majority's religious beliefs. But to say that Christians are out of touch with me is just silly.

Secondly, nobody is saying that every kid who accidentally shoots his friend while hunting should go to prison. We are saying that every time a kid accidentally shoots his friend, a proper investigation should be done. Otherwise, it's pretty damn easy to get away with murder down there, isn't it? Wanna kill somebody and get away with it? Take your victim hunting in Texas. That's what it sounds like every time I read on of these "that happens all the time down here" posts. If that's true, then I guarantee you people have exploited the lack of investigation of hunting accidents to cover up a murder. Wife getting on your nerves? Take her hunting.

[7P Dude]

73. Motive.

There's a big difference between a hunting accident between friends when the friend who gets shot forgives the shooter and a hunting 'accident' between two people who don't know each other and the victim is suspicious.

Everything that's come out (except the alcohol stuff) indicates this is the standard "friend accidentally shot a friend" kind of accident. The gentleman who was shot is talking and hasn't brought up any suspicion of foul play. You don't get thrown in jail for that in Texas whether you are some schmuck ranch hand or the VP. That's not something wrong with the system, it's realizing that sometimes an accident is just an accident.

Regarding the out of touch comment, it comes from a week of hearing people completely ignorant of hunting and how these situations are handled spouting off on message boards. Google has become too big and too weak a crutch for people who simply don't know what they are talking about.

However, the absolutely ignorant accusation of racism in the original post has no place here.

[imouttahere]

102. All that's been said in this portion of the thread tells me....

that I never want to even fly over Texas airspace again, let alone go there. Friend accidentally shot a friend?????? Where I come from, and other places I have visited, that's a shooting, full stop.

[7P Dude]

104. lol

All that's been said in this entire thread tells me....that's exactly what we would prefer.

[janetle]

72. The NRA needs to go to Texas...

...and stop lobbying and get back to their original purpose of hunter and rifle saftey it sounds like. So hunting accidents where people get shot happen all of the time in Texas?? Then you all need some safety education.

I took NRA rifle safety as a kid in Montana. My son took it here in Washington. My husband and his father were trap shooters and bird hunters in Montana. My brother and all three of his sons hunt birds. I can remember back 40-50 years as can my husband and we have never had this type of hunting accident happen to anyone we have known.

[7P Dude]

74. Hunter's Safety Courses..

...are required for everyone born after 1969 or something like that. I took one myself.

Regardless, hunting accidents happen. It might surprise you but they happen in Montana too.

[janetle]

78. I don't deny that accidents happen in Montana, too.

But never has such a hunting accident ever happened to anyone I have known or anyone in my family or my husband's family. And I'm talking about a lot of hunting years of game and birds by a lot of people going back to the turn of the century. And this is true--my nephew fell once and hit his elbow on a rock and that is the worst that has ever happened.

I have just been amazed at all of this discussion that hunting accidents where people are shot are rather common. This is just shocking to me.

[7P Dude]

76. "happen all of the time"

When did I say they happen all the time?

They are rare but they do happen.

[janetle]

79. Glad to hear they are rare--that's the way it should be.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

47. Transcript Of Fox Interview

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021502005.html

[Nightwing]

48. Great questions!!!

Now if that damned "librul"media would only do it's job. But we all know that isnt going to happen.

[Seen the light]

49. Brilliant thread K & R

Threads like these make me love this site. Bravo!

[VP505]

50. Have a look at this

link, it may help to better understand Cheney. http://cheneyplaysfolsom.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

[Initech]

51. Why isnt the media asking these questions?

Because our media has no balls anymore. It's all sensationalistic Oprah and Geraldo style bullshit, and no one is afraid to ask anything that could be even slightly damaging to Fearless Leader. I mean this Cheney shooting thing is deep shit, the kind of thing that, had any other leader been involved, the media would be down their throats faster than, um... you get the idea.

[urizenxvii]

52. word

exactly what I was thinking, +5 billion.

[StaggerLee]

57. K&R

Rule of law! Rule of law!

:dem:

[lonestarnot]

59. Dirty Dresses are more important than blown up faces and birdshot

in a heart and liver.

[PurpleChez]

61. Once again I find myself thinking: "If this had been Clinton/Gore

people would be going bat-shit crazy. Talk radio would be demanding that Gore be hanged in Lafayette Park at sunrise yesterday, seven or eight special prosecutors would have been appointed, and a whole new wave of ribbon magnets would be stuck sideways on the back end of cars across the nation. It would be a tremendous cliche to protest the hypocrisy of freepers who still obsess over Bill Clinton getting a blowie while excusing the chimp's untold crimes and misdemeanors -- if not for the fact that the issue remains unanswered.

[rateyes]

66. A .28 gauge shotgun is often called

a "girl's gun." It has a lot less kick than say a .12 gauge or .16 gauge shotgun. Maybe Cheney's "hunting partner" actually shot Whittington, and Cheney is taking the "fall" to keep her out of the limelight---keep press from asking questions: "Why was she here? What is the nature of VP's relationship....if she was an "eyewitness" why haven't we heard from her?

HMMMMMMMM!!!

[7P Dude]

68. 28 Gauge

A 28 gauge is typically used because it has a tighter spread on the pellets, not because it has less kick. You have to be more accurate with your shot but if you are, there is less chance of missing the bird due to the concentration of the pellets.

I used a 12 gauge when I was a kid and moved to a 20 once I learned how to shoot.

[Lena inRI]

77. Like a whodunit novel. . .

you explain one possible scenario that centers on the mysterious third unknown person. . .

I agree we should demand public disclosure of all witnesses.

I'm adding this interpretation:
Cheney is VERY UNFIT. . .loose plaque is circulating through his vascular system causing "petit
mal" seizures. . .mini-strokes. . .which made him shoot his hunting buddy accidentally.

Now this point needs definite public disclosure: Is Cheney physically fit to be Vice-President? I say not. . .force his resignation.

I hope Cheney is replaced. . .then he can be charged with crimes as a civilian, not just impeachment process.

Jail him quicker this way!
:smoke:

[rateyes]

86. Yeah, except

I don't want to see an "heir apparent" to the presidency from the Republicans....other than that "drawback" I have to agree.

[savemefromdumbya]

67. How can one turn away the Police?

fishy fishy

[kinchdedalus]

71. I'm a medical student...

...and one of my professors said yesterday that based on the heart medications that Cheney takes, he shouldn't even have a driver's license, much less a gun license. It got big laughs in the lecture hall.

[Ksec]

70. HIS history of alcoholism and

hes drinking again and then he shoots his freind in the face ?

I posted yesterday about how Im hesitant to politicise this issue.

Asking questions that are pertinent to a possible crime is not politicising the issue. Its responsible behavior that has nothing to do with politics.

[DarleenMB]

75. It's all moot now.

This has been declared officially over. Heard it on Ed Schultz this afternoon. Case closed. An accident. No problem Darth, I mean DICK.

Who's surprised? Raise your hand.

[onenote]

83. The OP has too many misstatements for my taste

I dislike Cheney as much as anyone. But if we're going to be successful in attacking someone's credibility we need to be careful about our own. And the OP, unfortunately, has a number of misstatements.

For example,why were Cheney and Whittington in a "hunting outing" with two other women, not their wives? Whittington's wife was there, as was Armstrong's boyfriend. And Lynn Cheney was supposed to be there but cancelled at the last minute. Not a productive line of inquiry and certainly not one to lead off with.

Booze. So Cheney admits to having a beer at lunch and then going back out hunting at three; the accident occurred after 5. To most people, acting as if having one beer impaired Cheney is going to be stupid and while Cheney may be lying, its his word against ours so what exactly is the press supposed to be asking?

"He also has a long history of DUI and problems with alcohol." He had DUI convictions more than 40 years ago when he was 21 and 22 years old. Not the same as a long history of DUI and if having 40 year old alcohol convictions is going to become an issue worthy of note, then its going to impact a lot of good people as well as assholes like Cheney.

As for the analyses of how close Cheney was or wasn't, he may well have been closer than 30 yards, but no one expects that he had a tape measure and nothing anyone can prove to this point can establish that it was 10 yards rather than 25 yards. The so-called ballistic analyses that I've seen are Fristian -- they aren't based on any actual first hand information about this particular incident and therefore are just speculation.

We should be hammering Cheney for his arrogant and secretive attitude, but if we start conjuring up conspiracy theories based on nothing more than speculation, we're going to undercut the real problem here, which is Cheney's belief that nothing he does is subject to scrutiny or question.

onenote

[hopeisaplace]

84. I nominate you for CEO of CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC and CBS

sounds like you would do the job properly. :)

[FastEddie]

87. Cheney Has Two Versions of Accident

police report: cheney says turned "counter clockwise"

fox interview: cheney says turned "right"

police report: bird went "behind"

fox interview: bird "went to my right"

[Julius Civitatus]

88. CORRECTION to first question in the list

As more information comes out about the case, some of the questions I originally posted are starting to answer themselves. Good. More transparency is what we need.

Someone sent me this article from the NYT:

The other guests were Ms. Willeford, the ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, and her husband, George, a physician in Austin; Ben Love, a West Texas rancher whom Ms. Armstrong called her "beau"; her sister, Sarita Hixon, a Houston museum chairwoman, and her husband, Bob, an insurance executive; Nancy Negley, an art philanthropist whose family once controlled Brown & Root, now a part of Halliburton; and Mr. Whittington, a 78-year-old Austin lawyer, Republican stalwart and presiding officer of the Texas Funeral Service Commission, and his wife, Mercedes.

At first Ms. Armstrong declined to say who besides Mr. Cheney and her sister had been her guests, but she provided the names after The Austin American-Statesman learned of Ms. Willeford's presence. Ms. Willeford spoke Monday by phone but declined to be interviewed again Wednesday. Mrs. Hixon and Ms. Negley did not respond to several messages.<


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/16/politics/16tock.html

Whittington's wife WAS THERE, and apparently so was the husband of Ms. Willeford. Notice these people are mum and have made not comments yet about the incident.

[Pryderi]

99. Why does the Texas Funeral Service Commission ring a bell? Scandal?

I can't remember, but wasn't there a scandal associated with this outfit?

[Lasher]

115. There was a 'Funeralgate' scandal in Texas

In 1999, then-Gov. Bush got Whittington to chair the Funeral Service Commission, a regulatory state agency. At the time, Bush was embroiled in a whistleblower lawsuit that contended that Bush and Robert Waltrip, the owner of SCI -- the largest funeral corporation in Texas -- were in cahoots. Waltrip, a Houston-based CEO, had previously donated $45,000 to the Bush campaigns for governor and $100,000 to Daddy Bush for his presidential library at College Station. Here's how Romero describes it:

The Texas funeral industry was then riddled by claims of irregularities, some surrounding Service Corporation International, of Houston, a large chain of funeral homes headed by an ardent supporter of the Bush family. Under Whittington, the commission reluctantly settled a whistle-blower lawsuit filed by a former state regulator who maintained that she had been fired for investigating the company.

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20060216BushWatch.html

Whittington was appointed to chair the Commission, to get the scandal all cleaned up in time for Junior's 2000 presidential campaign.

[Divernan]

118. Same funeral corp. given contract to handle dead from Katrina?

I read a post yesterday here on DU discussing the complex ins and outs of this funeral scandal. The same corp. pulled the same scam in Florida (don't special interests just love it when corrupt brothers are governors of TWO states) and that now this same corrupt funeral corp. has been given the contract to dispose of the (unclaimed) dead from Katrina. I recall when this scandal broke, there were hearings in the PA legislature concerning our state's laws/oversight of funeral operations. The Texas/Florida SCI operations were dumping bodies in swamps (Florida, obviously, not Texas) after being paid to cremate them and properly/legally dispose of the "cremains".

[Lasher]

120. Yes, the same one.

The company hired to manage the dead, contractually engaged by the ray of light Governor Kathleen Blanco, is none other than Kenyon International, a wholly owned subsidiary of SCI Corporation, owned by major Bush contributor and friend Robert Waltrip. Waltrip has contributed at least 45,000 to Bush’s political campaigns and endowed George Bush Senior’s library with $100,000.

<snip>

A whistleblower lawsuit in Texas, initiated by Eliza May alleged that Governor George W. Bush had intervened on SCI’s behalf to halt an investigation by the Texas Funeral Service Commission based on the close relationship between Governor Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh and Robert Waltrip. Yes, the same Joe Allbaugh that would precede Michael Brown at FEMA.

http://www.annoy.com/editorials/doc.html?DocumentID=100747

And why did Allbaugh resign after getting his ticket punched at FEMA? Warning: Make sure you have a waste basket nearby before reading the third paragraph below!

Former FEMA Chief Is at Work on Gulf Coast
Lobbyist Allbaugh Gives Clients Help

During his two years as director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency during President Bush's first term, Joe M. Allbaugh traveled to Louisiana for a series of disasters, from tropical storms Allison and Isidore to Hurricane Lili.

Yesterday, Allbaugh, now head of his own Washington lobbying and consulting firm, was in Baton Rouge, La., helping his clients get business from perhaps the worst natural disaster in the nation's history.

Allbaugh said he was there "just trying to lend my shoulder to the wheel, trying to coordinate some private-sector support that the government always asks for." In the case of one client, UltraStrip Systems Inc., a Florida company, Allbaugh said he persuaded "them down here" to present the case for a water filtration system.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/07/AR2005090702385.html

[druidity33]

119. disgusting

They fed the corpses of Jewish people (Menorah Gardens) to wild hogs in the woods nearby... talk about sacriligeous. They also got the Katrina contract for millions...

wonderful folk, really...

[voodoochild]

89. why are we asking questions about this..

Why are we trying to use this as the scandal? Seriously? worst thing that can happen is Cheney gets convicted of some crime that he'll be pardoned for. Get over it people. Focus on the wiretapping before they completely wreck our system of government.

[Joey Liberal]

91. Great post! n.t

[fob]

101. First off, GREAT WORK!!

Second, How about cheney saying that the delay was in part due to him not having a press person with him? What is the VP doing without availability of IMMEDIATE CONTACT with the WH in a TIME OF WAR? How could he possibly know that something 9/11-like wouldn't happen and he could be called on to be in charge? Did he leave Alexander Haig his keys to the WH situation room?

His entire story is simply not believable.

[Nothing Without Hope]

103. K & R. Some of the documentation for these points is in the COMPILATION

in GD and in the Research Forum - see the links in my sig line and ADD to this resource. I'll add this thread later this evening.

There are also other question, like why Cheney decided that a private citizen would be the one to present the story to the press (although the story on this varied) and at what stage Karl Rove got involved. (The story on Karl Rove varies too - some accounts say he was involved from the beginning with the decision on how to handle this situation.)

[librechik]

105. hah! you beat me to sayin' "Texas Justice" n/t

[autorank]

106. First rate, a real contribution !!! n/t

[Julius Civitatus]

107. Thanks for all the awesome feedback, folks!

Really, you guys are awesome. Thanks for the support, really. :loveya:

I just tried to compile all things that didn't make a lick of sense of all that's been said over the last few days.

As I said earlier, I'm pretty sure many of these questions will answer themselves as more information is been revealed (like the fact that the husband of one of the mysterious ladies, and Whittington wife's were present at the ranch).

Some other questions... well, they stand until someone make sense of them.

And how about that police report, dated yesterday, Feb. 15 2006???

[Binka]

116. JC Four Words...NOBODY TOUCHES THE DON

I have been having some discussions with my Sicilians friends over this. They are surprised we even know as much as we do. Furthermore they think what we do know is a bunch of hooey. The NY times says Mr Swiss Miss was there.....any proof? The papers report this took place in a field...any proof? For all we know this shooting could have happened in the Swiss Miss' bedroom. All we really know is Whittington got shot. That is it.


This thing is being managed and over managed and under managed, but trust me baby it is being managed. Oh and did you know Whittington is married to the sister of James Baker III...yeah him. THE FIXER. THE WORLDS BEST JANITOR.

Back to my subject line. NOBODY TOUCHES THE DON.

edit: missing word!

[Ksec]

108. We need to push your fact of blame

Their first statements were blaming Whittington, THEN they realized how inappropriate that was. Only after that did they back away from that position. Cheneys FIRST statement was to blame his "freind" That tells me loads about his character. He has none. .

[Nothing Without Hope]

110. ***Olbermann is different! MUST-SEE VIDEO from 2/16 - he BLASTS story***

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x447244
thread title (2-16-06 GD): VIDEO- KO Covers the Hunting Discrepancies (Brand-Booze)
Comment/excerpt: Liveoaktx VIDEO clip from Keith Olbermann shoots the hell out of Cheney's story. Shows the discrepancies between Cheney's Fox interview and other testimony, then brings on attorney Brand for some more questions.

I'll be adding this to the COMPILATION of threads on the Cheney shooting:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=358x3133
thread title (2-14-06 RESEARCH FORUM): Compilation of threads on 2/06 Cheney shooting incident, including videos

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x411916
thread title (2-14-06 GD): Thread COMPILATION on Cheney shooting/Fuddgate - including VIDEOS:

[Raine]

112. GREAT questions

I know that I would like to have them answered!

[Warchild]

117. "- Can a doctor lose his license for purposefully lying and making misle"?

>>>- Can a doctor lose his license for purposefully lying and making misleading statements about the health of a shooting victim?<<<

Probably not. His responsibility is to the welfare of his patient. Not to press releases.