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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:53 PM
Original message
Roll call on Patriot Act cloture vote:
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Have you noticed that pukes always seem to win every close vote?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. 96-3 isn't close
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. pathetic
nt
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Byrd, Feingold, and Jeffords - the only 3 defending the people.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Can someone explain why the Dems supported this? I don't get it. nt
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. "They are saving the fillibuster for something BIG"
:eyes:
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Well, word has it - it's not even going to be NSA spying! SPEAK UP DEMS!
What a bunch of beltway pussies. When will WE THE PEOPLE get some satisfaction?

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. Feingold's okay!
:thumbsup:
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. *sigh*
In other news today: Dick Cheney shot someone :eyes:
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Holy shit
Got a link for that?
:)
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Perhaps most of the Democrats in the Senate actually like the bill
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 03:06 PM by Freddie Stubbs
:shrug:
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. Courage = MIA
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Anybody know if there were any changes made to the
Patriot Act since they tabled it last time?

I'm particularly interested in the "SS National Police Force" section.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Here is the text:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. DAMN! It's not on that list, so they must have left in in!
Well, forget about protesting anything folks!
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. napi21.....what you talking 'bout?
protesting? I live to protest.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. There was an addition to the Patriot act within the last few months
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 04:19 PM by napi21
inserted by Arlan Spector, that said the Act authorized creation of a Secret Service National Police force. They would be uniformed officers, and would have full authority to designate any place they deemed necessary as a secure area. If you violate that zone, they had the authority to arrest you. The problem with that is that it doesn't even require the Pres or VP to be there, it's anywhere they deem necessary. That could be conventions, Party meetings, or anything else!

Obviously I was paraphrasing but that's the jist of what it does.

When Arlan was contacted, he said, I don't know what all the fuss is about, all I was doing to was clarifying a question in the original Act.

Do you remember those damn 'Free Speech Zones Cages" they had set up for the Conventions in 2004? And kicking Cindy Sheehan out of the State of the Union speech? and all other things like that!

I'll try to find a copy of the actual section Arrlan added.

This isn't the copy I was looking for but this link has an excerpt that states what I was talking about.
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013796.html
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. oh yes, now I remember.....thanks!
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. did you read the link you posted? Not a new police force
As the article you linked to acknowledges, the furor over the creation of a new "national police force" is totally crap. The first “federal police force” dates back more than 100 years. The Uniformed Division has its origins in the White House Police Force which was created in 1922 and moved under the supervision of the Secret Service in 1930. It has gone under various names over the years, but has been known as the Uniformed Division of the Secret Service since 1977. http://www.secretservice.gov/ud.shtml

Section 202 of title 3 of the US Code currently “creates and establishes” the Uniformed Division. What the Patriot Act amendment does is repeal section 202 (and other sections in the same chapter of title 3) and move it, largely intact, to title 18, which happens to be where the provisions governing the Secret Service in general are located. In other words, it’s a clarifying/technical change, not the creation of a new entity. The likely reason (apart from organizational consistency) is simply the recognition that the functions of the Uniformed Division have, for many many years, involved more than the protection of the President and thus it doesn’t really make sense for the authorizing provision to be in the section of the law dealing with the presidency.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode03/usc_se...

I will acknowledge that the new law makes a few other changes in the provision creating the Uniformed Division. But these changes are essentially clarifying and/or technical. In particular, the new law specifies that the Uniformed Division’s protection extends to the President and VP elect, former presidents, the next in line to the presidency in times where there is no VP, and to visiting heads of state. These “additions” aren’t really substantive expansions in the Uniformed Division’s powers since they already are covered by the current provision spelling the powers of the Secret Service (of which the Uniformed Division is, uh, a division) in general. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/index.html
Some people seem to be all hot and bogthered by a provision that allegedly allows the Secret Service to "comandeer" local police forces. Two little problems. The provision(which simply allows the Uniformed Division to utilize local law enforcement resources (with their consent and with reimbursement, which doesn’t fit my idea of “commandeering”)) is not new and only applies in very limited circumstances. Specifically, the proposed language merely provides that the Uniformed Division can utilize local law enforcement in two situations: to protect foreign missions located outside Washington DC and to protect visiting foreign officials when they visit cities other than DC. The reason for this provision is obvious – its not cost effective to fly dozens of Secret Service agents all over the country every time a foreign official visits. So, if Prince Charles visits LA, the Secret Service can ask LA police to provide security and the US government will pick up the tab. Moreover, this isn’t a new provision. The exact same authority exists today in section 208 of title 3. That section, like section 203, is being moved to title 18. Whoop-de-doo. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode03/usc_se...
There is one new provision that might be viewed as a substantive expansion of the law. Under current section 1752 of title 18, it is illegal to “willfully and knowingly” enter or remain in a cordoned off, posted, or otherwise restricted area of a building or grounds where a person under the protection of the Secret Service (not just the Uniformed Division) “is or is temporarily visiting.” It also is illegal to willfully and knowingly and with intent to impede or disrupt official government functions, for someone to engage in disorderly or disruptive conduct in a restricted area where a protected person is present IF such conduct “in fact” impedes or disrupts. (In other words, just threatening to disrupt doesn’t cut it, you have to actually do so). Also illegal under current law: willfully or knowingly impeding entry or exit from a restricted area where a protected person is present or engaging in any act of physical violence against any person or property in a restricted area where a protected person is present. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_se...

Finally under current law (section 3056(d) of title 18), its illegal to interfere with the Secret Service when they are carrying out their protective duties under section 1752. So, if the President of France visits the US and goes to the theater and he wants to go to the bathroom, the Secret Service can cordon off the bathroom and if you attempt to bust in to relieve your bladder, you can be arrested. Shocking.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/index.html

What the new law does that might be considered an “expansion” of current law (but probably isn’t really) is as follows. The current law applies to areas when a protected person is present. The new law adds a section that makes it illegal to do any of the things described above in an area designated by the President as a “national event of special significance” even if a protected person isn’t actually there. By the way, the authority to designate NSSEs isn't new. It originated with Bill CLinton and existing law authorizes the secret service to participate in the planning, coordination, and implementation of security operations at NSSEs.

So, lets review: not the first federal police force; not a new federal police force; no new significant expansion in power (and to the extent there is an expansion, it applies not just to the uniformed division, but to the secret service in general as well as to any law enforcement official with authority to enforce violations of federal criminal law). Is a new “Gestapo” being created. Only in the fantasies of bloggers who don’t seem to realize that when they dream up this bullshit they undermine the credibility of those of us who are trying to point out the real problems with the Patriot Act.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. that provision was never an issue, not even for Feingold
You realize that there has been a Uniformed Division of the Secret Service for decades, don't you?

onenote
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. yes -it's the Gestapo provisions that Feingold spoke about,..
sorry i don't have the link right now - you can go to his speach which is at this website - it's long but very very very information and there really isn't any excuse for the rest of the Senate.

I wish Feingold would run for president and beat the shit out of every one these rat bastard vichy traitors on both sides .

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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. Breaking news...
Senate Democrats announced today that they now have a record amount of dry powder.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, asked whether the Democrats might at some time deploy the powder, replied, "I won't speculate about that. We're certainly keeping all our options open. And we invite committed members of the party rank-and-file to donate more powder in whatever quantities they see fit. We are hell-bent on being the party of dry powder for the foreseeable future. We envision a time when the American voter will look at us and say, 'Damn, I'll vote for them. They got a lot of dry powder.'"

Sarcasm off.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That's, uh, quite a seal, there.
And, oh, so SO true. x(
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titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. disgusting!
The Dems should be ashamed!!!! Only a few good ones left to stand up and speak for the people. Bastards!

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Idioteque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. This was cloture on the motion to proceed.
They still have a chance to try filibuster the bill itself. I don't think it will be successful but I think most Democrats voted yes because it is uncommon to filibuster a motion to proceed.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Filibuster? Ha ha
That's a good one.

They could have voted NO on the motion to proceed. Just on principle. If they had any.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Just because their principles are different that your's, doesn't mean
that they don't have any. Most of the Democrats in the Senate may genuinely believe that good in the patriot Act outweighs the bad.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. It looks like you're right about that ~ which is why we have to get rid
of them ~ we are not represented.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Get rid of all 42 Demmocrats who voted for this?
Including Kennedy, Kerry, Boxer, and Obama?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. This isn't about MY principles
Because this isn't only about the Patriot Act. Senate Dems have made a habit of rolling over and playing along on too many important issues.

I don't know about you, but I don't need to be repeatedly beaten over the head to know the person with the stick doesn't have much in the way of scruples.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. And thus more of our civil liberties are bipartisanly flushed away
Once again the Dems show that they have no taste for the fight, and no spine to speak of. And people wonder why voters are leaving the party in droves. It is shit like this, selling us down the river. These people don't have to live with the consequences of this vote. They have enough money and power to circumvent these abuses of our civil rights, and thus they feel free to take away our privacy, our civil liberties.

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Robbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Patroit Act
This Is pathetic! Only Byrd and Jeffords joins Feingold. We are one step closer to a fasicst
Police State while most of the Democrats give Bush what he wants yet again.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. are you sure this is the FULL PATRIOT ACT or is it an AMENDMENT to it?
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 04:29 PM by LSK
S.2271
Title: A bill to clarify that individuals who receive FISA orders can challenge nondisclosure requirements, that individuals who receive national security letters are not required to disclose the name of their attorney, that libraries are not wire or electronic communication service providers unless they provide specific services, and for other purposes.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN2271:
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. Gee, you once again post bad news for liberals and progressives.
Wonder why that is?

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Because there hasn't been that much good news lately
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Dude, I've NEVER seen you post anything liberals would be happy about.
NT!

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
34. It sure is a good thing that we have a "two party" system.
The Republican Party and the "Sometimes Not as Bad as the Republican Party". This was not one of the times when it was decided not to be "not as bad".
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. D's and R's = 2 sides of the same damn coin
We need Hackets and Deans I guess. No more DINO's for me no matter what. We can't get real Dems in with FAKE Dems occupying the seat and blocking the real Dem.
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