Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Holy Hamburglar Batman, Mickey Dees could outsource order takers to India

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:34 PM
Original message
Holy Hamburglar Batman, Mickey Dees could outsource order takers to India
Another article from ex-Reagan admin Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts, this time discussing the end results of the growing outsourcing trend.

"Even Jobs at McDonald's Aren't Safe"
Their Own Economic Reality


By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

SNIP

The assertion that we hear every day that America is falling behind because it doesn’t produce enough science, mathematics and engineering graduates is a bald-faced lie. The problem is always brought back to education failures in K-12, that is, to more education subsidies. When CEOs say they can’t find American engineers, they mean they cannot find Americans who will work for Chinese or Indian wages. That is what the so-called “shortage” is all about.

I receive a constant stream of emails from unemployed and underemployed engineers with many years of experience and advanced degrees. Many have been out of work for years. They describe the movement of their jobs offshore or their replacement by foreigners brought in on work visas. Many no longer even know American engineers who are employed in the profession. Some are now working in sawmills, others in Home Depot, and others are attempting to eke out a living as consultants. Many describe lost homes, broken marriages, even imprisonment for inability to make child support payments.

Many ask me how economists can be so blind to reality. Here is my answer: Many economists are bought and paid for by outsourcers. Most of the studies claiming to prove that Americans benefit from outsourcing are done by economic consulting firms hired by outsourcers. Or they are done by think tanks or university professors dependent on corporate donors. Or they reflect the ideology of “free market economists” who are committed to the belief that “freedom” is good and always produces good results. Since outsourcing is merely the freedom of property to act in its interest, and since this self-interest is always guided by an invisible hand to the greater welfare of everyone, outsourcing, ipso facto, is good for America. Anyone who doesn’t think so is a fascist who wants to take away the rights of property. Seriously, this is what passes for analysis among “free market economists.”
Economists’ commitment to their “reality” is destroying the ladders of upward mobility that made America the land of opportunity. It is just as destructive as the neocons’ commitment to their “reality” that is driving the US deeper into war in the Middle East.

SNIP

Norm Augustine, former CEO of Lockheed Martin, says that even McDonald's jobs are no longer safe. Why pay an error-prone order-taker the minimum wage when McDonald's can have the order transmitted via satellite to a central location and from there to the person preparing the order. McDonald’s experiment with this system to date has cut its error rate by 50% and increased its throughput by 20 percent. Technology lets the orders be taken in India or China at costs below the minimum wage and without the liabilities of US employees.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts02162006.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ah, but they'll never outsource all those great burger flipping jobs. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Ummm.....
What about automation? You think it can't be done???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Wait until it's all automated.
Robotic retrieval of ingredients, mechanized cooking, very little human assembly. It's not sci-fi; they're already working on it.

mikey_the_rat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Then there goes the only "good jobs" that are left. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's already being tested.
Robots running over invisible tracks, RFID of ingredients (robot retrieves necessary items), "meat" patties sent through conveyor cooking process, burger assembled by the one (or two) humans in the store, who hand you your food. Basically what would require (today) a staff of 8-15 is reduced to one or two (and yes, the orders are taken from a centralized call center).

mikey_the_rat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Makes me happy for all the money I never spent there. n/t

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Your body thanks you, too!
I know. I did my time at Micky Dee's.

mikey_the_rat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. They outsourced at a few mcdonalds already
And it's pretty ridiculous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Mickey Dees....
Is a scourge on society. Just like Wally World. I don't think many DU'ers would even give that place a second look.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Though It Sucks That This Is Occurring, I Do Have Trouble Blaming Them.
I don't like this situation any more than others do, but I've never understood why it is necessarily wrong to pay someone else who would work for less money yet do the job faster and more competently. It seems logical on its face.

I'm sure some DU'ers will reply and show me what I'm missing logically though, cause I'm sure I must be missing something in this debate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. OK OMC, i'll try to help you out here
as far as order taking you may have a point HOWEVER...

shipping manufacturing jobs overseas is a horse of another color. they may be saving a few pennies a unit, but they are grossly inflating the Global Climate Changes with shipping products half way around the world, esp if they ship the raw materials there then ship the finished product back.

there is more to globalization than just lower wages and lifestyle impacts. if you factor in the entire picture with how much energy it costs and how much pollution it causes the true costs are staggering


how's that? :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That's Actually A Very Unique Perspective That I Had Never Considered.
It's actually a heck of a point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. ....
my work here is done....


















:hi:

:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Who's going to have the money to buy anything...
over here if even micky d's jobs disappear. Corporate America seems to forget that you can't keep shipping jobs away from here without losing the greatest single market in the world. I wish that businesses which supply consumer goods to the middle class would speak up before their customers disappear but they are busy outsourcing, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Didn't Answer My Question Though.
I said it sucks and for all the reasons you state above.

My question though is that if people are willing to work for less pay and do a better job and do it more effectivly, regardless of what country they're from why is it not the logical move?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Because you reduce the standard of living here.
It was ok when we simply had a choice between cheaper goods and more expensive ones. Then people could make their choice based on what they can afford. What happens to this country when most wages are depressed except at the top and we no longer produce saleable goods to service our foreign debt? Who's going to pay for that, particularly if the taxes that effect the rich get taken off the table? What kind of country do you want to live in? How about your children?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. My response? Boycott. I will seriously not do business with them again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Would you like chutney or curry sauce with your fries?
Edited on Thu Feb-16-06 05:53 PM by Javaman
Wouldn't Indian's have a moral issue with working for a company that serves burger made from cows? Call me crazy but wasn't there a major issue recently in a mcshit's in india along the lines of them using tallow in their fries?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
enigma000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Hindus are not traditionally known for burning fast-food joints
Perhaps their tolerance extends to working for them in a non-restaurant environment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Carly Fiorina would say they have "no God-given right" to a job
Stupid fucking corporate logic. We'll pay them over there so we don't have to pay them over here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. Do they want to lose business?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. "I cannot sell you a hamburger, because it is against my religion"
Wonder how a pharmacist would feel about hearing that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Off shore outsourcing is an issue democrats can win with
Red state, blue state,
old state, new state


Can you help me win this seat?
Yes I'll help you win this seat.

This seat held by GOP?
GOP says markets-free

Could I win if DLC?
Could they fund my TeeVee fee?

You can't win with DLC
DLC is GOP
If DLC then don't call me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. LOL! Love your Dr. Suess rhyme!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thanks
It was goofy, but I had to share it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. Another reason not to eat there
I don't patronize the Carlyle Group's Dunkin Donuts anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC