Advice needed for a future political wife...

[LizMoonstar]

Hi! Sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum - please move it to wherever it belongs, but I am seeking suggestions.

My fiancé (Barak and Roll/Jon Maxson's America are two ways DUers might know him) is going into politics after graduation, starting out working on a local congresscritter campaign, and hopefully moving up from there. He is, naturally, a liberal Dem, and is very openminded about 'sexual' issues though his personal life is quite 'ordinary'. However, here's the issue.

I am currently out of work, so, between needing money, and having time available to take odd jobs on weird schedules that I'd always wanted to try, I got the chance to get paid for modeling for art students in advanced drawing classes. Some classes are clothed, some nude. Turns out I'm pretty good (cooperative and can hold poses properly/good muscle control), and the instructor suggested I contact some of the other art programs in the area as they could use someone like me.

Problem is this. Jon has no problem personally with me doing this (or so he says, and he's a pretty straightforward and non-jealous guy) but he's concerned about this coming back to bite him/us in the ass when his career gets going by someone trying to make it look sleazy instead of, well, figure drawing practice. He has no problem with it, but doesn't want to get Swift Boated, you see. He doesn't really want me to do any more classes because of this, but I think I could get some good work at the new art museum, and I enjoy it. However, it wouldn't break my heart never to do it again.

What I'm asking you guys for is suggestions on how to reduce the chances that this could cause him problems, and if there's ways to do that that would still make it feasible for me to do more work like this. i think it's a neat experience - people give me money for the privelege of making art about me(!) - but I understand his concern.

I've thought of fake names and such. Also, all the work is practice pages as opposed to finished displayed works, and none of them are identifiable as me (it'd be easier to connect me to naked pictures on the internet), but if you have any thoughts, please tell me. I'd like to both keep his stress level down and get some more work, ideally. and of course, i won't lie to him.

thank you faithful DUers!

[beingthere]

1. Why not wait and play it by ear?

See how it works out. You'll learn something. Don't be in a hurry to get married. As the saying goes "Marry in haste, repent at liesure."

[LizMoonstar]

11. don't worry - we haven't even set a date.

he just wanted me to get to have my sparkly ring now to enjoy and to not have to say 'boyfriend' like a junior high crush any more.

[bliss_eternal]

15. Welcome to DU, beingthere!

:hi:

[helderheid]

2. I would talk to the congresscritter's campaign manager about this.

he/she would have some good advice I'm sure.

[LizMoonstar]

9. I may do that . I used to work with her in college. n/t

[Caoimhe]

3. If he's serious about someday holding office

I can see his point. Why give them ammunition? Plus, maybe he really does have an itty bitty problem with it but is afraid to say that. My husband is a wonderful man and trusts me completely, but I think he'd have a little problem with me posing nude for strangers to draw. And he has zero political ambition!

You know him best.. so go with your heart.

[SPKrazy]

4. Anyone Asks Questions, Just Take Them Quail Hunting!

;)

[madokie]

35. and make sure they know what quail is

[babylonsister]

5. Just keep in mind how sleazy campaigns can be;

any and all dirt will be dug up if he winds up in the nat'l realm and you posing nude could really create problems with all those righteous :eyes: voters out there.
This is a tough one; I'd want you to do what you want to do, but could see problems down the road.

[NanceGreggs]

6. I'd err on the side of caution.

In all probability, this would never surface as a problem. However, as you go through your political life together, neither one of you needs the stress of always waiting for that particular shoe to fall.

You've said yourself that it wouldn't break your heart to give this up, so I'd let it go ...

[elperromagico]

7. Really, it doesn't matter a damn what you do.

You could live the cleanest, purest life this side of Mother Theresa. Somebody somewhere would make something up.

That's politics. I don't have to tell the truth about you to destroy you. I have only to repeat the lie often enough.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Right

Remember what they did with John McCain's adopted child.

[madokie]

36. you so right, but I suspect you know that

[sandnsea]

8. We live in a post 2/11 world

Apparently politicians can now blast people in the face and it doesn't matter. So what's a little nude drawing between friends??

Seriously, I see your dilemma. The only answer I have is that the brazenous of politicians and the things they just roll right over amazes me. There's people in this Administration who were convicted of crimes, for chrissake. They just keep plowing on after doing things that would have you or me hiding our heads for the rest of our lives. I think it's something you have to learn how to do in order to be mega-successful, just be brazen about everything.

Own your art modeling, make it say something about your character, your pizzazz. Congressman so-and-so, married to the nude art model, PIZZAZZ.

If you start walking on eggshells now, I think you'll both drive yourself crazy.

But I don't have to live your life, so what do I know.

[The Traveler]

10. Some good thoughts in the other posts

but I can't help but think it is so sad that this is an issue at all. Who would have thought we would live in an America in which posing for an art class could be reasonably expected to have serious repercussions in the future?

[elperromagico]

40. The problem is, nobody would mention "art class."

The headline would be "Candidate's Wife Posed Nude."

Context doesn't mean squat.

[The Traveler]

51. Yep ... that is the problem exactly. (n/t)

[acmejack]

12. Future political wife

You answered your own question. You've seen how Karl Rove has set the standard for the game to be played. Hopefully it will improve, but why risk your future?

[hholli11]

13. Be Your Own Opposition Researcher/Strategist:

If you can envision that this might be potentially damaging (and with no idea about the demographics of the area in which you live or the area where he might eventually seek office, I'd have no idea) then this might not be worth the aggravation.

So pretend for a moment that you are the nasty little fascist that would be the campaign manager for your future husband's future political career and you come across this snippet of info about you. What would YOU do with that information?

If you can envision something damaging, I would suggest bartending. :)

[LizMoonstar]

14. awesome advice; detail question.

do you think it'll help that this is all under my (very common) maiden name, that I won't be keeping?

*note to feminists - i am sick of my boring name and have looked forward to changing it since i was old enough to know you could. i am into the preservation of unique cultural names rather than the spread of generic names like mine. it's the sort of thing they gave out at ellis island when they couldn't pronounce your homeland name, except that my family didn't even used to be named something cool.

[sallyseven]

16. It will come back and bite you if you do.

If he has any aspirations for a public office you as his wife will be qa drag. No matter what they will find out because someone will tell. He is a democrat and the repugs will look for anything even a wife modeling for an art class and turn it into something sleazy.

[GreenPartyVoter]

50. I think so too *sigh*

[pitohui]

17. well don't do it

there is no way that naked drawings of yourself don't come back and bite you in the ass sooner or later

[Meldread]

18. Well... He has a point.

Going into politics opens your life up to public scrutiny, and is opening the door to the types of attacks you describe. It's unfortunate but true.

Going into politics is something that has to be a family decision for that very reason. This is just my blunt, but honest opinion, but if you don't want this coming back to bite him in the ass (and by contrast having your name smeared) then I would suggest giving it up. I realize this perhaps isn't the answer you're looking for or want to hear - and well.. I'm sorry. However, it is just the blunt but honest truth.

Everyone has skeletons in their closet, but if you know before hand you are getting into the political arena you should do EVERYTHING in your power to not give anyone any dirt to use against you. Think about it down the line, when your husband is running for Senate (or hopefully - President!) and having to go on national television to explain why you were posing nude. Imagine having millions of people scrutinizing you, insulting you, twisting it out of context, and having to look them in the eye and explain yourself. Then imagine it not making one bit of difference, because the spin and propaganda is already floating around.

That's politics. It's a dirty business, and now that you and your partner realize this is the type of arena you want to place yourselves in, you have to begin living in such a way as to minimize such problems.

EDIT:

I want to paint a possible future scenario for you. Your Husband is running for Senate. It's a close race. Things are getting ugly. You both have been campaigning your asses off. Now, the national media is talking about the race. Money is pouring in from out of state. His opponent and several organizations have already preformed detailed background and personal profiles on you and your husband. They find out that you posed in the nude. They find out what schools you posed nude at. They think they might have a possible smear. They do a search on students that were at the school at the time, and try and find out what students that were in the classes in which you posed. They locate several, and a wealthy supporter of your opponents campaign contacts one that he notices is an active Republican Supporter.

This is where things go bad. The wealthy supporter offers the Republican supporter who saw you naked to go to his local newspaper and give an interview. In that interview he states that it was "rumored" that you were not only posing nude but sleeping with several other students in the class. Your opponents campaign takes that publicized interview and circulates it around to various Newspapers he is certain that will gain traction. Your husbands campaign finds out about it, tries to block the story from getting out, but fails... and now it has become national news.

Do you remember the "Dean Scream"? Do you remember "Swift Boat"? Well, this would be similar. Now your husband is out there defending your honor, calling them lies, you feel horrible, and while your husband is defending you his opponent is talking to voters and getting out his message.

Of course, this is the worst case scenario, but politics is getting even more dirty all the time. So as time passes this type of stuff may become common. You always will have to assume the worst will happen. Always.

[renate]

19. the cost/benefit ratio seems a little high

You would feel absolutely terrible if this came back to haunt him, and this is his future career that could be affected. It's unfortunate but there are people out there with nasty little minds--that's just reality.

Can you stick with just posing clothed? Also, have you already posed nude? The odds of a problem would go up with the number of pictures out there, so there's still logic behind his wanting you to quit, but if there are already some pictures of you nude, the odds aren't zero any more, so stopping wouldn't be a surefire way to eliminate the risk anyway.

Ask the instructor if there's a way to remain totally anonymous--of course the students don't need to know your name, but ask whether any links between your modeling and the cutting of the paychecks could be obfuscated.

We need people like your fiance to run for office--good for him and good for you!

[LizMoonstar]

20. well, i've already done some work.

some was nude, others not. the kids in the class didn't know anything more than my first name, and the paychecks just say art department. i can get other work clothed nude or both.

so is it too late? should I break off the engagement now and just save him a lot of trouble? i mean, between this, the stuff on my blog about my abortion, my interest in becoming a sex researcher, and possible nakedpix on the internet already from before we met, he may already be screwed.

or is that blowing this out of proportion? i do that, it's the ADD overactive imagination. I love him and want to keep him, but have i already ruined him?

man, now i'm even more freaked out. i was hoping to hear something like, if you do x, y, and z when you pose and get paid, it will be harder to link to him later.



damn it. damn all those red slimeballs to hell.

[LeftyMom]

23. Okay, I have a question

If it was you or his political ambitions what would he pick? By asking if you should leave him you seem to be indicating that the politics come first, which wories me.

Are you willing to be some sort of bland political wife in the Laura Bush mode to aviod causing him any potential trouble or is he willing to let you be who you are and stare down anyone who criticizes that? If neither is the case, you won't make a good political wife.

If you are, you probably shouldn't do any more nude work, just to be on the safe side.

[LizMoonstar]

26. he would not want me to go. i just freak out easily.

he is a hard core lib who has already assured me that his response to an attack based on my abortion would be 'how is that your business?'

and we'd be running in a blue area, because he'd be in a constant state of rage and i in a constant state of fear if we lived somewhere red.

i am sure he'd stand up for me, but i don't like that he has to take this into consideration already. the man's only 21, for god's sake!


i guess it's just that i am kinda insecure when it comes to believing i have any useful talents, and between that and the fact that this is the first opportunity in a long time to actually put a talent to use and get paid to do so i've had, i want to be able to do it. and i wish it weren't an issue, because i don't like having to start watching what i say and do already, especially since it's too late, in a sense. i mean, i'm smart and caring, and i generally make a good impression, but now i'm paranoid that i'm going to end up as more of a liability, and that his love for me will hurt him instead of help him.

seriously, i'm a liability:
-abortion
-naked internet pix
-the art classes
-psychopharmaceutical treatment and counseling
-more sexual partners and broader experience than him
-ADD conversation style (hence the meds, but it'll never make me normal) and lack of tact
-not good at being 'feminine' - don't wear makeup or maintain other feminine grooming details, not out of politics, but out of laziness/attention span issues
-terrible 'housewife' type and afraid of children (we don't want any)

I could go on.

now, neither of us are ashamed of any of that (well, except for the me being a slob part, and that's just me), but all of that is going to make it harder for him than it needs to be, and he has such a gift and i am so proud of him that i don't want to think that i'm bringing him down.

[LeftyMom]

31. How high is he aiming?

If he just wants to run for a local office you shoudl be fine. Even at the state level, for anything less than governor it's likely nobody'd care if his wife sacrificed chickens to Satan on her front lawn.

Slash and burn personality politics is more of a national thing. At that level, yes you'd be a liability (although more because of the abortion than the art modeling- the only people who'd really object to that either don't vote progressive or are old enough that they won't be an issue when he's old enough to run for a serious office.) If he wants to be a mover and shaker at that level and marry you it may be better for him to take a behind the scenes role rather than running for a high office.

You can always keep your role in any campaign to a minimum as a defense mechanism. There's a certain resistance in the media and the public to sliming of political wives who stay out of the limelight. That way if any of this is brought up, his political defenders can point out that he is running for office and you are not, making the opponent look like a petty jerk who attacks defenseless women for his own gain and winning sympathy.

[Meldread]

34. Don't lose your head.

LeftyMom is hitting on a lot of good points. Look, to be honest with you politics is a dirty business you are going to get slimed for anything and everything. It's part of the business.

Be upfront and honest with him and have him be upfront and honest with his campaign's inner circle. That way if anything like this comes up, you'll be able to already have spin ready.

For example, let's say the abortion issue comes up. It's out there, you did it, there is no denying it. Come out and own it, and while doing it - break down and cry. Talk (even if it isn't true) about how painful it was for you. Say you can't believe someone would be so cruel as to bring up such a horrible thing from your past. It'll totally backfire on them. (Remember Alito's wife crying? That was totally staged.)

Just be ready to counter anything that comes up. Don't lose your head over this, don't think of yourself as a liability - it'll only poison your relationship with him. Think of all the positive and moral support you can offer him, because 9/10ths of the time he is the one that is going to be slimed, not you.

[Meldread]

24. Well...

...that's a pretty rough track record. Here is what you need to do. First you need to compartmentalize your life. You have to realize that there is a personal you, the you that you are around you and your family, and then there is the political you, the you that you are around others in public. Everyone already does this naturally, but you really have to draw those distinctions clear in your mind.

Second, I'd say if anything like this comes out later down the road you have to come out and own it ASAP. You are going to screw up - you are human. There is always going to be a skeleton somewhere. Hell, I know I could personally strangle the hell out of Google and the way back machine for some of the stuff they've managed to catch in their cache of me... *shudders*

Anyway, you need to be upfront with your partner about everything. When entering a campaign you need to tell your partner to come clean to his Campaign Manager about everything about him and about you - about any children you both will eventually have as well. Hopefully being prepared for any thing will minimize the likelihood for a huge impact.

Just be aware. Don't live your life on egg shells, but be "aware". Know that there will be people out there that will take any mistake you make and blow it up fifty times bigger. When you make choices, try and make smart ones. Be responsible. If you do this, you shouldn't have any big problems really.

Look at Laura Bush. She killed somebody with her car. (I believe it was her Ex-Boyfriend.) Look at George Bush there are nude pictures of him out there. With a good political team, that is willing to do whatever it takes to win, you shouldn't have that many problems. However, it is always best to minimize what they can use against you. Don't walk on egg shells or fret over things you've done in the past. Just be aware of the life you are about to lead.

[LizMoonstar]

21. kicking because i'm seriously freaked out now! n/t

[DoctorMyEyes]

22. Don't be freaked out

It's just not worth it.

The truth is in politics that you cannot protect yourself from being "slimed" no matter WHAT you do or don't do. (Think of Max Cleland) So to live your life with that kind of feeling of impending doom, calculating everything you say and do will only destroy you (and/or your relationship)

Just let it go, and be yourself. Don't do anything that you would be ashamed of, and if you do, then "own" it.

Personally I get tired of this bullshit of having someone "groomed" from birth, with no real life experiences like the rest of us being considered "ideal".

Besides - it's not what you do, it's whether you're a hypocrite about it that really does the damage. If sometime in the future you try to play the uptight puritan goody two shoes who would faint at the sight of an exposed nipple - then your past could hurt you. Or if you became a sanctimonious "pro-lifer" dedicated to restricting women's choices about their bodies and tried to cover up the fact that you had an abortion and already talked about it publicly - THAT could bite you in the ass. But, it should. It's one of my main beef with Republlicans - they want to compel everyone else to live according to their "ideal", but make exceptions for themselves.

[usregimechange]

25. Advise him not to run in Southwest Missouri.

Really depends on the region I would think.

[Lisa]

27. if he were running in my town, that would get him votes!

But this is a West Coast arty/bohemian kind of place (or at least, it likes to think of itself as such). "CB", the local politician (school board chair) I work for even got approached to take part in the local "Women of Distinction" nude calendar -- she claimed the main reason she decided against it was that she is almost 60, and felt she would look too runty/flabby next to professional athletes (they'd also asked some female rowers from the national team).

Unfortunately, there are always some people who will be puerile, or downright malicious in this situation. They'll even go after the "artistic community" if it's fully clothed. Weird as it may seem, some of the population (a minority I hope) would not want anyone in their family to marry a musician, actor, filmmaker, or artist, because this is "not respectable". Maybe this is a throwback to medieval times, or something.

If the museum/art school would still like you to work for them without disrobing, I guess that would be one way of keeping your job opportunities open. Plus the chance to be able to lobby the arts people on your husband's behalf, if it's possible to maintain connections there. (Okay, maybe not plastering campaign bumper stickers on yourself when you show up for work, but still ...)

Or -- and you did say that you wouldn't be too disappointed if you gave it up entirely -- you might just have to "take one for the team". Political couples have to make a lot of sacrifices ... this might actually not be the biggest one you make. CB told me, after the last election, that she knows her husband and kids have put up with a lot on her account. Though when you're with a progressive party, the load tends to be shared more evenly -- and the chances that you will either be propped up as decorative "eye candy", or forced to work till you drop on things that he can't or won't take on (decorations for the victory party, anyone?), are lower (thank goodness).

p.s. I'm not going to give you flak over the name change. It's your name, and whatever you decide is cool. I have friends who've kept theirs, and ones who've changed, or hyphenated -- just as some people get a church wedding, others go to the registry office, and others stay common-law. It's the fact that one has a choice, right?

p.p.s. In any case, it would be good to talk to the campaign manager -- since you already know her, it'll be a lot easier, and she will appreciate your straightforwardness.

[FreedomAngel82]

28. I'd say

"so you don't like art?" I wouldn't worry about it and just stand up for whatever you're doing. Just be honest. :)

[msgadget]

30. Sorry, but this could hurt him even though it's art

And, you can expect to see practice pictures popping up in newspapers and at rallies for the rest of his political life. Politics is so...yucky...plumbers make a decent wage, ya can't outsource a toilet job and nobody cares if their wives model! :) Best of luck to you both.

[cascadiance]

32. Have him run in Santa Cruz or a place like that...

It might actually gain him votes there if he's up front about it when asked. I think in a community that's accepting of that sort of thing, I think it would be OK, as long as there wasn't too much effort to cover it up as if it was "dirty" or something like that. In a more red state community, it might be tougher to get elected. It probably depends on his aspirations too. If he wants to much farther beyond a local congressional position, then this could become more of an issue for more "national" campaigns down the pike.

[rucky]

33. Being worried about your image isn't a desirable trait...

for a model.

Keep doing it if you like and make no apologies.

[LizMoonstar]

37. i still can't get over the fact that we have to watch our step already.

he's not even out of college yet. i can't get a frickin' job. i can't even sell my plasma to pay the bills because my veins are too small. and i find a legit, and pretty classy, way to make money, that i'm good at, and i can't take it because it'll be a potential swiftboat 20 years from now.

what the hell is this world coming to.

[Synnical]

39. Relax - have you done anything illegal?

I see no reason that you cannot continue your art work. I see no reason to apologize for the abortion.

If your fiance is nervous - just don't do the legal thing of getting married. Have a ceremony amongst friends. Be a long term domestic partner.

Just my thoughts - and some very, ah, unusual pics could possibly show up of me on the net if I ever decided to run for office, but I cannot, since I'm an out-spoken atheist.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

[LizMoonstar]

41. but wouldn't that look worse if we don't actually marry? n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

38. I say go for it and don't hide it

Modeling for artists is not sleazy or degrading and it's incredibly valuable to them to learn how to portray the human anatomy. You should be proud. Hell, it might be a positive thing for him.

[smartvoter]

42. The part that most bothers me here is that you are so quick to

suggest that you're a liability -- which translates indirectly to not good enough for him because of his ambitions. I don't want to suggest problems if there aren't any, but the fact that you walk to a different drum doesn't make you any less valuable in the partnership. If I misinterpreted some of what I thought was lurking below the surface, please ignore, but I was compelled to say something.

With respect to the modeling, you've already modeled, and there are nude pics on the net, and so on. He's marrying a nude model, so the work is out there. It will not evaporate when you get married, so it is difficult to believe that if someone was sleazy enough to use it against you, that they would not use it just because you are no longer doing it. Hell, it'd probably be spun into an attempt to cover up the past. So there probably is no real liability in continuing.

Finally, he may just be uncomfortable with this and doesn't want to say it because he doesn't want to come on like he's suffocating you or is controlling or jealous, so this gives him a side angle with some legitimacy to the argument. Speaking as a male -- and liberal one at that -- my sense is it just plain bothers him. This is where I'd place my money...

[LizMoonstar]

43. i am an insecure type. he doesn't consider me a liability.

i just know that he's going to have to work hard to overcome me already.

i think it may be that he's just uncomfortable and doesn't want to say, so i'm having our (male) best friend investigate for me. because the more i think about it, the more i want to keep doing this. but i don't want to be hurting him, reputation-wise or emotionally.

[bleedingheart]

44. if you are forthright and honest about what you do...no one will care

so model and do what you want. The kind of stuff that sabotages political careers is the stuff that is hidden..

I would not worry about what he wants, do what you want. If you "model" your life around him, you could find yourself regretting it and it won't be his fault...it will be your fault for having changed yourself to suit what you thought were his needs.

[smartvoter]

46. Well, it sounds like you have a lot to think about and perhaps

work out, depending on your decision. Just one comment on the insecurity thing: When it comes to compatibility and preference, it's not about value.

Not good or bad, just different.

I hope that however this works out, you are comfortable with the outcome. As you can see, there are plenty out here that will look out for you... :-)

[npincus]

45. don't EVER let yourself be photographed nude

if that should come up.

As far as modeling goes, are you getting payed off the books? CYA re: any tax obligations.

I don't remember the faces (or bodies) of any of the models from my college drawing classes, i doubt that enyone else would. But you never know.

As a courtesy to him, and given the sleazy nature of Repug campaign politics, I would try another way to make money- my opinion entirely. I know others here will disagree. It's one of those sacrifices made for the benefit of someone we love- I'm sure he would do so for you.

best of luck!

[LizMoonstar]

47. well, i'm already screwed.

there are a number of nude pix of me out there, public and not, already; some of them from photography friends before we met, some that he took himself.

and the modeling is through the college's payroll (and any other jobs would be through their institutions' payrolls), so the tax thing is covered.

[npincus]

49. ok, given that disclosure

I think the modeling provides an appropriate context for the nude photos if THEY come up... the modeling validates the explanation that nude photos were art-photos, that you were a legitimate model for art students in a college studio.

Gee, I'd say the pics were a much bigger problem than the modeling. Is there any way that you could collect some or all of them? If your future-husband becomes well-known (or famous) then you never know what a former friend would do for money, or if they get in some one else's hands. I would try to retrieve all pictorial evidence that's floating out there.

Everyone does that kind of stuff when we are young.

[DemonGoddess]

48. I say to go ahead and do it

and, as an artist, I can tell you that it's IMPORTANT when you're learning how to draw people, that you have a good model for figure studies. Part of doing the figure studies involves the model being nude part of the time. So what? It's an honest way to make a living. As I'm sure you've figured out talking to the instructor, a good model is worth his/her weight in gold, when one is teaching this part of art and how to do it.

Yes, the downside is that somewhere along the line someone MAY try to paint this with a sleaze brush. As far as potential future backlash, you have people you can talk to to get an opinion who already work within campaigns, so do talk to them. See what they say.