Is Cheney going to be replaced soon?

[FreedomAngel82]

I'm listening to the Majority Report and Sam was talking about how he briefly read an article on Peggy Noonan and she was talking about who could replace Cheney because of the Plame issue. Does anybody think something could be going on?

[H2O Man]

1. There are people

both in the administration and outside of it who are talking about the benefits to the party of having Dick step down. This is for the sake of the president, and the '06 and '08 elections.

[BurtWorm]

2. No he won't be, I don't think.

He's too central to who and what the Bushists are.

[NanceGreggs]

4. He's proving to be a liability ...

And as far as the Neo-Cons are concerned, NO ONE is expendible.

[BurtWorm]

10. Cheney is operating under his own laws and rules.

He can do whatever the fuck he wants. He won't have to pay for a bit of it.

[NanceGreggs]

13. Let's not forget ...

... that Cheney isn't the ONLY member of the Neo-Con 'cabal'. He may not like to think so, but he didn't get where he is alone.

A liability is a liability - what HE personally thinks of himself, or his powers, at this point is totally without consequence.

[BurtWorm]

17. Who's going to tell Dick it's time to go?

Who has more power than Dick these days?

[NanceGreggs]

22. Let me turn the question around:

If the 'cabal' crowd has determined that he's a liability and will stand in the way of their agenda, how is he going to stay?

We've already seen that these people stop at NOTHING to eliminate liabilities. And regardless of how much power he thinks he has, he can't just dig his heels in and stay in office with zero support from his own.

Even Cheney is vulnerable to 'swiftboating' by the Neo-Cons - a comment leaked anonymously to the press here, an email made public through 'anonymous sources' there. Where there's a will, there's a way.

He's an old man in failing health. When the 'Godfather' starts fucking up and jeapordizing the 'big picture' that everyone is working towards, the younger factions get restless and turn on him.

And it's not like he's got any sympathetic support from the public to make them think twice. At this point, Cheney being 'politically' eliminated is a win/win scenario for the Neo-Cons and the Bush administration - and they KNOW it.

Buh-bye, Dickhead. It's just a matter of time ...

[BurtWorm]

23. If the cabal hasn't determined he's a liability by now,

they're never going to determine it!

Who's mad at Cheney? Peggy Noonan and Marlin Fitzwater--Bush I and Reagan people: the old school. They're the ones who want him out. They think the game is the same as it always was, but that's not how Cheney and Bush are playing it.

I don't see anyone on the scene who has anything like Cheney's power. Cheney is a dictator. He does whatever the fuck he wants. No one's going to fuck with him.

[NanceGreggs]

24. That's just it; I think they HAVE determined it.

Let's look at just the recent past:

Cheney shoots friend, delays telling police, press, even the WH. Sex scandal may be involved, drinking, etc. Everything smacks of a cover-up.

Abu Ghraib photos hit the public; Cheney has always been an outspoken advocate of torture. The public gets upset; Cheney is the perfect target for their anger.

PlameGate heats up; Libby sings, all signs point to Cheney as mastermind behind a plot that is now blowing up in the Repub's faces.

Bush Admin's poll numbers plummeting; Repubs up for election or re-election getting antsy about how this plays out for them.

The cabal, comprised of Cheney AND others, still see power to be grabbed, influence to be garnered, money to be made. They're not ready to lose it all over one loose cannon - and that's what Cheney has become.

So let's say they want him GONE. Where is his power now? How can he stay, if his support system wants him out?

Call out the military to secure his office, and shoot anyone who tries to remove him? Rely on his staunch public support? (They hate him, even the Bushites). Play nice with the media? (They think he's an arrogant prick).

Without the support of other cabal brothers, Cheney has no power - none.

Going back to my Mafia analogy, if the all-powerful Godfather starts jeapordizing the ability of the rest of the 'family' to make money, garner political influence, and be free to continue on with their 'business interests', his enforcers leave him and his support wanes; he is rendered powerless.

Cheney and his ilk rely on each other's loyalty and goodwill in order to maintain whatever power they have attained. Once that loyalty and support is withdrawn by the group, the individual is toast.

There will be attempts, IMHO, over the next few weeks, to 'rehabilitate' Cheney's public image. But if poll numbers continue to free-fall and HE is seen as the cause, they'll cut him loose without a second thought.

[BurtWorm]

25. You have too much faith in the "cabal's" ability to give a shit.

No one with that much power does.

[NanceGreggs]

26. Of course they give a shit ...

... when it's their ability to hold on to political power (e.g. ability to make money) at stake.

And it's all about MONEY. And anyone who stands in the way of this group making MORE MONEY is totally expendible.

[BurtWorm]

29. But Cheney has done an exceptional job of making them lots and lots

of money. They don't care if he's popular with the unwashed masses or the media as long as he keeps on doing what he's doing.

I think of the group behind Cheney (his base and his peers) as robbers. They're in it just to take what they can while they can. PNAC and the neocons are, by comparison, just a bunch of naive idealist academics who have been used to create a nice pretext for raiding the public coffers on behalf of arms merchants and energy dealers. I know this is a very cynical view, but I don't see anything light and fluffy about any of it.

[NanceGreggs]

32. Maybe we're talking at cross purposes ...

... because I think we agree more than we disagree.

Yes, Cheney has made them lots of money. But as you've undoubtedly surmised, LOTS of money isn't enough for these people if there's LOTS MORE to be made.

Yes, to a certain extent, they didn't care if Cheney was 'popular' with the masses or the media, as you've said. It was the BushBaby's job to the 'popular' one. Although, you must admit that from time to time, they've taken the initiative to trot him out as 'Dear Uncle Dick' when it was politically expedient to do so -- like during the 2004 campaign.

But if his current fuck-ups (PlameGate and now the shooting incident) are going to cost them the votes they need to retain political power, THAT changes everything.

The Neo-Cons can only retain power via a Republican-run government. And if Cheney is perceived as someone who will lose Republicans votes in 2006 and, more importantly, 2008, he has to go. And they'll see to that, one way or the other.

People keep saying, "Yeah, but Cheney and Bush won't be running again in 2008." True, but in the public's eye, they represent the GOP, and that representation needs to be unsullied and untarnished in order to keep the base voting their way.

I guess the perfect example is Jack Abramoff (duh, should have thought of this sooner to make my point). He was the DARLING of these people; he knew how to make the right deals, and how to keep the cash flowing into GOP campaign coffers.

But the day he was indicted was the day the Republicans, and especially the White House, decided they'd never even met the man. So much for loyalty among theives.

The public perception of Cheney right now is one of an arrogant bastard who shot his own friend, and wasn't man enough to do anything but save his own skin. Have you been over to Freeperville? Even the Freepers are turning on him. And you don't maintain political clout when even your staunchest supporters start thinking you're a dirty dog.

[BurtWorm]

35. I know what you're saying, and of course you may be right.

Part of me hopes you're right, because I think Cheney is long overdue for a good swift kick of justice to his fat, corrupt ass. But what I was reading yesterday makes me think he may be an unusually awful figure, the kind that inspires fear and doesn't let go of power easily once he has it. That doesn't mean I think he's going to hold on after 2008. It's just that this system permits him to hold it until then, and he doesn't seem to me to be the type to want to give it up.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. It does make you wonder

And where is Lynne in all this? She should be out by now talking with him on faux earlier but she hasn't been around. :shrug: I wonder if something is going on too.

[NanceGreggs]

30. Yeah, her absence IS surprising a lot of people ...

She's always been a 'stand-by-your-man-no-matter-what' political wife.

Here's my theory -- and it's based on being a woman, more than anything political.

Cheney strikes me as the type who's always had a 'little on the side', and Lynne, being a 'political wife' who knows how these things are handled, had probably agreed to look the other way, as long as he was discreet and she wasn't publicly humiliated.

But now there's been non-stop speculation for days -- in the media and at the office water-cooler -- about who the 'other woman' is, and what was going on.

No woman, regardless of any pre-agreement with her husband about his infidelities, wants her nose rubbed in it in front of the world. THAT is just TOO humiliating.

I suspect that she is one VERY PISSED-OFF lady right now. And the LAST thing the powers-that-be who are trying to protect this Administraion's image need is yet another loose cannon in front of the cameras or a microphone.

I'll give Lynne credit for one thing: she's managed to 'play her part' very well in public as the supportive, loyal wife.

But as they always say, "Hell hath no fury ...," and if she's truly upset by what's going on right now, her body language and demeanour might broadcast exactly the opposite image Dickie needs conveyed by his 'loving' wife right now.

[Boojatta]

20. He already has been replaced and his replacement has bad aim.

However, his replacement does look a lot like him. :tinfoilhat:

[katty]

3. quite a few GOP/insiders want cheney out-but bush has to

force the issue-obviously, cheney is hanging on in more ways than one.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Right

Cheney could be blackmailing Bush into keeping him. Bush might be getting pressure from the GOP officials but Cheney is threatning to spill the beans. Oh how I wish that would happen. I found his interview with Brit Hume interesting.

[Poppyseedman]

6. Noonan must be on drugs

cause dick isn't going anywhere. He could die from a heart attack and bush would prop up his body in the VP office.

To be honest about it. bush and cheney don't give a flying shit about what the media thinks, what democrats think or even their own party thinks.

Nothing is going to happen.

[FreedomAngel82]

14. Isn't she an insider?

Maybe she's trying to show something. Jeanane mentioned how they could do that and use this new person (like Rice or someone) to make them run in 2008 and steal the election to keep their neocon plan going on.

[NanceGreggs]

33. They have to give a shit what their own party thinks ...

... and what the public thinks. This government, as corrupt as it is, doesn't operate in a vacuum.

If the GOP thinks BushCO is going to ruin their individual and collective chances of election, re-election, and political power, they'll withdraw their support. And Bush without GOP support is a lame duck (or Plame Duck, as the case may be!) who still has almost three years left to his term.

Imagine a GOP-led Congress/Senate that starts voting NO on every initiative the WH holds dear. BushCo is cut off at the knees, and rides out the rest of his tenure as the president who can't get a SINGLE thing accomplished, held out as a total non-entity for all the world to ridicule.

I know there are those who think this Administration holds ALL the cards. But they don't. Every Republican sitting in office today has his/her own political ambitions, and they won't sit idly by and watch them destroyed.

[hiaasenrocks]

7. I think so.

A short David Gergen :puke: clip on NBC Nightly News got me thinking about it. Gergen said that Cheney's influence is damaged by Peppergate, and he'll likely lose some of his power. First thing I thought was that Gergen has already started to hear of the coming change.

Wait for it...

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Lose his power by this??

[hiaasenrocks]

19. That's what he said.

Again, he was talking about the problem of losing influence. Which, I suspect, leads to the loss of power.

[durablend]

8. What for?!?

They own the country and can do whatever they damn well please. What's the point in replacing Dead Eye Dick? To appease the sheeple (they don't need their votes anymore)????

[hiaasenrocks]

9. One reason they might be considering is that

they need someone in the VP slot to assume the nomination in '08. Putting Rice there now will ensure a continuation of the Bush admin.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. And a reason for her to run

She has been denying anything about running so this would be a good thing for her in 2008.

[FreedomAngel82]

28. Don't forget Iran

[Raine]

11. I hope not

otherwise they will replace him with some ass like Frist who wants to run in 2008 and it will give him a leg up toward the Presidency. x(

[bridgit]

12. one can only hope unceremoniously & with extreme prejudice...

:thumbsup:

[Cleita]

18. If we had a competent administration, he would be, but

with this bunch of yahoos, who knows. He'll probably be given a medal instead.

[doc03]

21. I sure hope not

we need this guy as VP, say if they replace him with Condi or Frist that will give them 3 years to build them up. Keep Cheney right where he is he's the best thing we have going for us. He could screw up a one car funeral.

[trudyco]

31. What if they suggest Jeb Bush? -nt

[dysfunctional press]

34. they'd like to give Condi at least an 18-month head start in office...

before the election against hillary.