Natalie Hollaway

[erpowers]

What the heck is up with Natalie Hollaway or her parents. They are suing the kid Joran and his father claiming that he raped and tourtured Natalie. They also claims that he has a history of doing this type of stuff. Finally they claim his father allowed him to date rape women, especially the blonde tourists. Do the parents of Natalie Hollaway have any proof for their claims? I do not have a problem with the guy paying for any crime he committed, but he should not have his name drug through the mud if he did not do anything and/or if there is no proof he did anything wrong. So, what is going on with this case? This is just crazy.

[H2O Man]

1. Actually

it is not "crazy," and they have plenty of evidence to support their charges.

[erpowers]

3. Where?

Where is the evidence?

[LisaL]

8. In a civil lawsuit, one needs less evidence that in a criminal one.

[H2O Man]

19. Anyone who is

sincerely interested in the case can easily access plenty of information on it.

[northzax]

33. but the jurisdiction is a problem

What court in New York has jurisdiction over Aruba, again?

[truebrit71]

34. Um, NONE, last time I checked...

..desperate attempt at laying responsibility one a party when there is insufficent evidence to prove it criminally...

I feel terrible for her parents, but the bottom line is that this is grasping at straws and a colossal waste of time...

[Punkingal]

2. I wondered that myself.

How can they know this? (Not that I have watched this case....I just couldn't get Rita Cosby off last night before she gave that little synopsis.)

[LisaL]

12. Why couldn't they do this? As far as I can see, I could sue

anyone I want. If there is insufficient evidence, I just won't win any lawsuits, or they will be thrown out by the judge.

[Punkingal]

I'm not saying they shouldn't sue....

I was just wondering where they got this information about what happened to their daughter. I haven't followed the story, so I didn't know where they got this information.

[truebrit71]

35. Because it happened in another country maybe?

There is no jurisdiction. None whatsoever.

[Bake]

43. You are correct. No jurisdiction whatsoever.

And funny that she DIDN'T sue in Aruba, where there would be jurisdiction. I'm not familiar with the law there; perhaps they have no cause of action for wrongful death, etc.

Bottom line, no court in the US would have jurisdiction, either in personam or subject matter.

Bake, Esq.

[liberalitch]

4. They are in pain..... that kid killed their daughter....

I don't know about the torture part but.... I do think that he killed her and that daddy helped him cover it up.

[dysfunctional press]

39. shouldn't the "i think" appear in your subject line...?

unless you have some facts, isn't that libel...or is it slander...?

[Orrin_73]

45. Joran actually lied to the police

I live in Holland a few months ago Joran told a newspaper here that he had lied.
He told the police that he did not know Natalie but in the newspaper interview he said he saw her that night and went to the beach with her. What happened after that he did not tell.

[dysfunctional press]

46. and how is that proof that he killed her?

i don't see it.

[Orrin_73]

54. I didn't say he killed her

but there are some unanswered questions.

[dysfunctional press]

56. the person i originally responded to did.

right there in the subject line.

[lynne]

5. Sounds like the OJ trial -

- where he wasn't convicted of the actual murder in the original trial but was later convicted of lesser charges (don't remember exactly what) in a civil suit brought by the victims families.

Hey, if they've got the evidence of such behavior by this kid, let them have at him.

[LisaL]

10. He wasn't convicted of a lesser charge.

Civil and criminal trials are two completely different things.

[lynne]

18. Civil suit was brought against OJ in 1997 -

- and he was found liable in the civil suit although he was not convicted in the original criminal trial. According to CNN report at that time:

"O.J. Simpson is liable for the 1994 death of Ronald Goldman and committed battery against his ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson, a civil trial jury ruled February 4, 1997."

Sounds like this may be what is going on with this case - that they're filing civil suit since they can't get criminal charges.

[cornermouse]

6. Natalie is a non-issue.

There is a multitude of plethoras of more important things to look at.

[lse7581011]

7. BUT the MSM will latch onto this AGAIN!

and ingnore the important topics of the day!

[hippiechick]

9. Not necessarily ...

... in a way, this case is symptomatic of the bigger issue ... those with the money and the connections can get away with whatever they want. Secrets, lies, payoffs, strong-arm tactics ...
and 'the little people' can't do shit about it.

[cornermouse]

15. First, the people who are being accused aren't even American.

Natalie's parents allowed her to leave the continent with a group of kids and are SHOCKED that she took the opportunity to party? Hello? What about brains, common sense, and her parents telling her "no, you can't go."

Bottom line. Natalie is a tragic but small story being blown way out of proportion in comparison with the nation's chances of survival of the Bush the Second presidency. I just don't care.

[WinkyDink]

29. "leave the continent"?? Good grief. Schools have had trips to foreign

lands since forever.

[hippiechick]

40. and that's your option ...

... but some of the 'little people' will look at it as 'yep, there go the rich and powerful again, committing more crimes and covering up for each other' ... I see it as a golden opportunity to tweak that corruption button in their minds.

[Burning Water]

16. Maybe, but

what gives you the right to decided what other people should find important??

[BOHICA06]

17. Not if you are her parents. nt

[adriennui]

11. this is their only recourse

hopefully, it will see the inside of a courtroom with joran and hs father
on the stand being cross-examined.

[Bake]

52. That'll never happen. No jurisdiction.

The first thing that WILL happen (if ANYTHING AT ALL happens) is that the defendant files a motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction. Court grants motion -- it has no choice. Case over. No deposition, no cross-examination, nada, zip, zilch.

Bake

[elehhhhna]

13. Did y'all know her BROTHER was with her on that trip--

plus a cousin, and that teh other students on the trip wre not questioned by law enforcement in Aruba or by the FBI per the Holloway's request?

[erpowers]

22. Sounds Fishy

Why would they allow her to get in the car with guys she does not know, espically her brother. I do not say this because he is a guy it is because she is directly related to him. I do not think I could let a cousin or sister get into a car with foreign guys after she had been drinking. Even if they did not see her leave I think I would have kept an eye out for her at the bar and tried not to let her out of my sight.

[WinkyDink]

30. Maybe because they weren't WITH HER THEN?

[northzax]

38. well, I hope they all have their stories straight

because if this goes forward, I can guarantee that everyone who saw Ms. Holloway, from the chaperones to every other student on the trip will be deposed, under oath. Mrs. Holloway's public image of her as the virginal innocent may be shattered.

I hope they are getting good advice. If they don't think that the van der Sloots will fight back tooth and nail, they're in for a suprise.

[AlCzervik]

27. i went to Aruba and if i'd gone off with some guys my friend

would have kicked my ass all the way back to the hotel. this whole thing stinks.

[raccoon]

42. I didn't know that. Wonder why? I mean, why didn't the

Holloways want them questioned?

[peacebaby3]

55. Are you sure they were not questioned because the Aruban authorities

actually went to AL a few months ago to "re-interview" some of the students on the trip with Natalee. I saw this on the news. Do you have a link to the information that the Holloway's kept the Aruban officials from questioning the students? I'd be very interested in reading that info.

Thanks.

[Burning Water]

14. Yep!

OJ was innocent, too.

But in America's legal system, anybody can sue anybody about anything. Lawyers, cuss 'em, like it that way.

[rucky]

20. That's what court is for.

we'll find out, I guess.

[Skittles]

21. her name is Natalee Holloway

I'm a stickler for that kind of stuff :)

[erpowers]

23. Was not Sure

I was not sure how to spell the last name. I did not pay to much attention to the pronouncing of her name, but I thought it sounded like the media was pronouncing the last name with an a sound.

[bluedog]

24. to me this is a NON story

why the news media still covers this shows that they do not focus on the real issues of the day.....okay the girl is missing...the boy has been investigated.....let the law take it from here and I hop they don't go to interviewing all the family.the dishwashers.the doorman.the janitor....and play it 24/7

[WinkyDink]

31. It has been ever thus. No use complaining. The specific is as important as

the general; the individual is as important as the group.
And sometimes certain individual stories strike a chord within us.
Else why have books? Stories? Movies? TV shows? Plays?

"Why watch a movie about an individual kid named Anne Frank? There's a WAR!"
"There were plenty of others who were blind and deaf, not just Helen Keller! Let's discuss the ADA!"
"What? Romeo and Juliet were the only teens ever to sneak behind their parents' backs?"

[erpowers]

25. Sex Trade

Does anyone think she could still be alive, but that she was sold into the illegal sex slave trade. I watched a show about the illegal sex slave trade and local news reports have commented on how some people try to recruit girls into the trade. No they do not just walk up to girls and ask them if they want to be prostitutes. According to the Frontline story some people use bogus newspaper ads claiming to advertise for waitress and stripper jobs. So does anyone think that somebody realizing that she was drunk decided to abduct her and then sell her to someone who would pimp her out in the sex slave market.

[kskiska]

26. Why did they file suit in Manhattan

when neither of the parties live anywhere near NY, and the defendant isn't American and resides in another country?

[kwassa]

28. This story is another giant waste of media resources

There about 800 people murdered in LA the same year as Nicole Brown Simpson. Of those murdered, about 200 murders were never solved.

Was there one ounce of the publicity spent on any of these other murders?

Of course not.

Did the world go ballistic over any of those murders? No.

But did they react to the OJ verdict?

[WinkyDink]

32. Yes, and every one involved a world-famous athlete!

Except not.

[kwassa]

44. What's your point?

[Xenotime]

36. They have no proof...

They can't live with the fact that Natalie ran away.

[flyarm]

37. i was just in Aruba..and everyone who was working at resort et al:

said the same thing..and a friend who was with us asked every cab driver, every waiter every person we saw ( it was like a joke) but the people down there all replied the same thing..they hope she is ok..but.....big but.........

now i never watched one thing about this..i refused to because , i as well think its a non story..
a distraction...

having said that..this girl has done this before in mexico evidently..she disappeared..while on vacation...


and when her mom came down to Aruba to look for her..saying how distraught she was..

she spent all her nights in the casino in the Wyndam hotel...all night till closing...

we heard this from every single Arubian we talked to...

( now one of our friends is a jokester..so it became a joke of him asking every single Arubian we met)

and every single Arubian said the same exact thing..

the mother spent every single night in the casino while she was supposedly there to find her daughter..


now call me silly..but if my child was missing...gambling would be the last thing i would be doing..

and if i was demanding an inquiry or investigation..the last place i would want to be seen is in a casino!

now a caveat..i am not a gambling fool like so many can be...but i do like to play a game or two...

but if my child went missing , i would be going everywhere on a small island day and night writing charts..and going step by step of where my kid went...i would be in all the clubs at night asking questions..not spending 8 hours in a casino till the wee hours of the night!

this story stinks of alot of crap....

again i will say, all the Arubians wished she would turn up..and wished her well..and hope she is alive...but they think she left the island somehow and is hiding from her folks!

fly

[graywarrior]

41. I have a prblem with this country's obsession with missing blondes

I don't follow the Holloway storey because my eyes glaze over. I feel bad for any parent that loses a kid, but I'm wondering how naive parents must be to think their kid is not going to drink to oblivian on those trips. And I'm not blaming the parents, so don't trash me or I will be forced to kill you.

[Blue_In_AK]

47. Jurisdiction is going to be a major issue here...

None of the principals have a tie to New York, and as I understand it, this suit was filed in state court. At least in my experience, this is a big no-no, and could get the case thrown out before it even gets started. I'm surprised that their lawyers would try this - unless there's something I'm not understanding.

[northzax]

48. er, getting attention?

and another show with Greta?

is it really State court? this will last seconds. an L2 in night school could get that tossed.

[peacebaby3]

49. In civil court, you only have to show guilt by a preponderance of the

In civil court, you only have to show guilt by a preponderance of the

evidence. In a criminal case, you have to show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The standards are different. You also have to have the government agree to charge them and take the defendant(s) to court (if they get an indictment from a grand jury if Dutch law is like US law), but a party can sue in civil court without any help from the government. This takes the Dutch government out of the picture because they have the final say in criminal court.

I haven't had a chance to read up on this, but I've heard bits and pieces and I am pretty sure that some other women have come forward that say that Joran had done some of the same things to them. I have also heard a tape of one of the other brothers admitting that they picked her up and had sex with her. I believe there is also some evidence of date rape drugs being used by Joran and the brothers.

I'm pretty sure that they probably filed in NY because they found out that the van der Sloot's had a residence there or were going to be in town so they could be served. They would have investigated and found out when they were in town to serve them because they have to serve them here and then they are legally bound to show up in court here. If they don't show up, a warrant for their arrest is issued. They would never be able to return to NY or even the country because any other state would get them for NY.

I have to admit, if my child were missing, I would do everything within my power to find her and keep her name in the news so while I agree that it is not right for certain pretty, blonde, white girls to get more attention, I definitely don't blame her parents for doing everything within their power.

I also work as an investigator for the defense in criminal cases so I don't know what I think about this situation, but it is legal.

Someone mentioned the slave trade earlier and that was originally my thought, but there has been too much publicity and anyone who would have kidnapped her would not waste their entire illegal slave trade over one girl so she is dead if that is the case. I also think that someone would have given info for the reward by now or some info would have come up. There has just been no evidence to support that theory. After the first couple of weeks, I started to really believe that these guys probably gave her a date rape drug and went off with her and something accidentally happened and she died. I'm not sure if they did anything or if she had some reaction to the drugs or alcohol, but she wound up dead. They then started freaking out and trying to cover it up, probably getting the dad involved (and maybe the boat DJ) to help get rid of the body. This is just my gut feeling which has developed over the years, but I certainly have no way of knowing anything other than what little I have heard.

If they do ever go to trial, I feel certain they could never get a fair trial (at least here in the US) because of all the publicity. There would be no place they could request for a change of venue because the story is national (probably even international).

It will be very hard for the family to ever get anything from the van der Sloot's unless they have assets in the US, but they will get a lot of information out to the public and it could shake things up and more info might come up or someone might come forward, etc. They would also still be able to go after them criminally at a later time if the Dutch government decided to prosecute.

[malaise]

50. Ask the Alabama mama

how long it took for Emmit Till to get justice in her home state.

[peacebaby3]

51. You'll have to ask someone in Mississippi. n/t

[malaise]

53. My bad indeed

Ouch!! Then ask her about those four little girls in the church.