Well, it seems Rove & Republicans have succeeded-They now have California!

[LaPera]

APPOINTED CA Republican Secretary of State, (Bruce McPherson) has approved republican owned Diebold electronic voting machines...

They've wanted CA for so long...Democratic presidential candidates never had to spend a dime in the most populous state and arguably the country's most progressive democratic state, (that has always pissed the fascist republicans off)...I'm sure this will also help the republicans future "Golden Boy", Arnold, as well as many other republicans...

Long planned strategy, from the ousting of (Enron exploited) Democrat Gray Davis, to ELECTED CA Secretary of State, Democrat John Shelley, (who would never allow the machines), finally pays off!!

The republicans now count the votes in CA!

McPherson gives conditional OK to Diebold voting machines...

"California Secretary of State Bruce McPherson gave conditional approval Friday for counties to use two voting machines produced by Diebold Election Systems that he had previously questioned.

McPherson's office said in December that the Diebold machines failed one of the 10 criteria he established for voting machines because the source coding, or computer language, on their memory cards was not reviewed by independent investigators."

California Secretary of State Bruce McPherson gave conditional approval Friday for counties to use two voting machines produced by Diebold Election Systems that he had previously questioned.


McPherson's office said in December that the Diebold machines failed one of the 10 criteria he established for voting machines because the source coding, or computer language, on their memory cards was not reviewed by independent investigators."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/02/17/state/n175845S67.DTL

[kaygore]

1. What can we do to stop counties from adopting them???

[Richard Steele]

22. The "Boston Tea Party" just popped into my head, for no reason...

NO REASON, I tell you!

I am certainly NOT advocating that the citizens of this nation
actually start acting like it belongs to them,
if that's what you're thinking.

[kaygore]

34. What a nice picture of Andy!

[NuttyFluffers]

59. *yawn* "heads on pikes" popped into mine...

must be something strange in the ether out there, eh? meh, but doesn't matter, i expect to watch this nation be buried by confusion, apathy, hesitation, and fear by november anyways. and then i'm off to drown in delicious pina coladas somewhere else in the world waiting for americans to get off their collective ass and follow the lead of the french, russians, and our own nation's forefathers oh so many years ago. it'll be a fun show to watch. in the meanwhile the slide into self-destruction is mildly amusing. the answers are already there -- but will the american's use it? dun-dun-dah.... very much like a daytime soap opera, isn't it?

edit: whoopsy, subject verb agreement errors. :evilgrin:

[Richard Steele]

61. Yeah, "subject verb agreement errors" are your biggest problem.

Your post describes nothing but your SELF.

Good luck with that.

[NuttyFluffers]

87. thanks! care for a pina colada?

:evilgrin:

[In Truth We Trust]

63. Storm the warehouses and destroy the fascist tools-then and only then will

we be free.

[Toots]

64. I am... I am openly advocating and preying that we throw those damn machin

in the Bay. Every damn last one of them. If we don't we no longer have a country...

[Rocknrule]

2. These people are the most greedy and arrogant sons of bitches on earth

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. The GOP doesn't intend to give up power no matter how they have to go

about it. They know they can't win on issues, so they have to steal elections. Stealing California is going to look mighty suspicious, isn't it?

[Rocknrule]

86. They'll just say

that Californians suddenly got Jesus or something :eyes:

[EFerrari]

3. NO! They don't YET have CA! And all you DUers ---

PLEASE BE READY TO HELP CALIFORNIA ON TUESDAY.

*************THEY CANNOT HAVE CALIFORNIA UNLESS WE HAND HER TO THEM***

Are you with us or WHAT?

:nuke:

[FreedomAngel82]

5. And how are the citizen's going to stop them?

They have all the power.

[EFerrari]

9. Their 'power" depends on the appearance of consent

of the governed.

There's that little detail.

[AndyTiedye]

21. They Only Need Control of the Media For That

The media always say we consented.

They said we all supported the Iraq war when millions of us were taking to the streets.

Who needs real consent when you've got Diebold?

[EFerrari]

65. Yes -- the media does do that. Shot, we would't be in this fix

without the Chronicle smearig Shelley up one side and down the other.

[Ladyhawk]

29. Okay, what do I have to do?

You already know I'm a Californian. I'll fight for my state.

[kaygore]

35. So, what do we need to do?

[pinto]

4. Hi LaPera, link's not working.

[LaPera]

7. Sorry, hope this one works...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/02/17/state/n175845S67.DTL

[mitchtv]

6. I suppose a recall is out of the question?

an Initiative is in order. A real simple one: " Paper Ballot"

[LaPera]

10. Somehow, we have to vote out McPherson in November, but as all republicans

know, it will be extremely difficult with these electronic voting machines.

[EVDebs]

73. McPherson's 'anti-terrorism policy' background...he's a plant

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=413258&mesg_id=413454

and Ahnold put him there at BushCo's direction specifically to do this. The media needs to take a closer look on this guy's background.

[LaPera]

91. You are correct, right on the money...except about the media, the

republicans own the media, the media is only as liberal as its CEOs and its ownership...the corporate media is absolutely owned by republicans.

[MrModerate]

8. Seceded hell! It's anschluss!

I've long said that Republican secretaries of state are the party's largest vote getters. We can write off California. If they feel like playing it cool, they'll knock off just enough CA Dem Reps in November to make up for what they lose nationwide; if they loose it, they'll wipe out the entire Dem congressional delegation. In 2008, it won't matter what creepazoid they put on the national ticket -- he or she will win.

And that's all she wrote.

[EFerrari]

12. Geezus, we need your help, not your dire predictions.

Pull yourself up! :)

[AspenRose]

11. OH. I thought CA was leavin' or somethin'

SECEDE is to leave....never mind!

Diebold is evil.

[LaPera]

13. Sorry, my spelling sucks...

And to think. I could of used "spell check".

[Cleita]

16. Secede might not be a bad idea.

We could then kick Arnold and his crooks out.

[LaPera]

20. Almost, LOL!

But it far too serious...

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. This is scaring the hell out of me. What can we do?

The next time that Austrian asshole decides to put anti-union measures on the ballot, the Diebold machines will skew the results.

[Ladyhawk]

38. Scaring me, too. What do we do???

It's a bloody three-day weekend.

[Marr]

15. Which counties are getting these machines?

I'd be interested to know whether they're putting them in the red areas, like Orange County or Riverside.

[SoCalDem]

18. Riverside has HAD sequoia for years.

Watch for the "polls" showing support for various candidates.. That will be the "tell"

[Ladyhawk]

30. We have ES&S scanners already.

Nothing will seem amiss in a red county. That's where it will start.

[EVDebs]

74. Or Shasta and the rest of the Central Valley....

[Pryderi]

17. K&R

[Zinfandel]

19. McPherson did exactly as the Washington boys instructed -- On a low-key

note, perfectly!

A no ones looking -- three day week-end...and now, we just may be fucked here in California!

The neocons have wanted this, (California), for soooo long!

Now, they may well have us?

[Pachamama]

25. He pulled this same shit right around Thanksgiving week when people were

out of town!

Coincidink? I don't think so.....

MOFO's...... :grr:

[Warren DeMontague]

23. It was Kevin Shelley, and yes, it's clear he was railroaded to make way

for Diebold.

They've been trying -HARD- to screw us, from the manufactured energy "crisis", to the bogus recall based upon the same, to the SOS bullshit.

We'll stay tuned.

[Nikki Stone 1]

24. Yes. But what the hell can we do??

We've gotta save this state.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Find out which machines your county intends to use. Vote Absentee & get

the word out to people who might be forced to use these machines. I'm pretty sure my county, Sonoma, is going to continue using the optical scan ballots it always has. I don't know how many of these machines are going to be out there, but I don't think for every county that uses them they're necessarily going to be the ONLY way you can vote (I know some counties bought them to assist with disabled voting)...

... so, what to do? I suppose the first course of action would be to call your registrar or county officials, find out if one of these Diebold deals is what's going to be taking your vote (or, should I say, your "vote") on election day- if it is, or it even "might" be-- GET AN ABSENTEE BALLOT, and tell your friends who don't want Bushco to steal their votes to do the same.

[Nikki Stone 1]

76. I usually vote absentee

But it might be worth becoming a permanent absentee voter

[LaPera]

32. Thanks..., "Kevin", your correct...

Ex SF Mayor, (his dad), Democrat John Shelley.

[barbaraann]

26. Bruce McPherson's son was murdered in San Francisco.

I wonder if that has anything to do with his support of the BFEE.

By the way, thanks to whoever it was that gave me a heart!

[Zinfandel]

39. Sadly, its just the republican agenda.

[Ladyhawk]

27. Man, that is the last thing I wanted to hear. :( :( :( :(

I'm not sure I can deal with this.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Folks, it's been said before, I'll say it again: VOTE ABSENTEE.

They can't force you to cast a vapor ballot if you've mailed the thing in.

[Ladyhawk]

37. But do they really count the damn things? Also, they use ES&S scanners

here. Do they run the absentee votes through the scanners? If so, your vote can be changed at the central tabulator. Voila! Absentee vapor ballots.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I'm not the expert on the whole thing- but I think the big danger with EV

is that there's NO paper ballot, anywhere, in case of a recount. If you vote on paper, even if they hack the numbers, presumably somewhere there's going to be a locked box with all the ballots and they can be recounted. Now, sure, they could "lose" your absentee ballot, I guess- but I think the pain in the ass (or PITA, as a fine acronym I just learned) factor for fudging that kind of thing with the danger of a paper trail is far larger than merely hacking a system where there's not going to be any paper record of the votes cast.

Now, I wouldn't trust Diebold to water my lawn, but I do think that most of the folks involved with this subject agree that any instance where you can cast an actual, paper ballot is preferable to just marking your choice on a screen and hoping it is recorded correctly.

[Ladyhawk]

52. Actually, if Republicans hold power, they can keep recounts from happening

That's why the "paper trail" idea is absurb. I want hand-counted ballots. I don't trust machines to do the tallying or the politicians to call for recounts. As Andy Stephenson said, "Voter-Verified Paper Ballots." That means hand counts to me. Machines will fuck us up.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. In reality, however, there'll probably be a machine in there somewhere.

I voted for Bill Clinton twice on optical scan ballots, and I feel fairly sure that the votes were counted. I agree with you that in an ideal world you'd have hand counts- but I think that the danger with having NO paper BALLOT -even one that is counted by a machine- that can be locked away and at least held for the threat of a hypothetical recount, actually, (which was the gist of the VVPB thing, as I took it) is imminent and so inherently menacing to our democratic process that that's what I interpret this current battle to be about, right now.

There is wisdom to what you say, but first and foremost I think people need to have their votes recorded on something more substantial than a screen and an easily hacked GEMS central tabulator. You're certainly not going to have all the counting machines, everywhere, out of the system by this november.

[Ladyhawk]

56. I suppose having a "paper trail" is at least better than nothing.

I'm just freaking out because I'm a Californian. I love California. Even as I've thought about moving out of the country, I can't imagine living anywhere but California. :shrug: I've traveled some here in the states and I think our climate just can't be beaten. I haven't traveled abroad enough to know where the hell else I'd want to live.

I've felt at the point of throwing my hands into the air for the past six weeks or so and this news saddens me greatly. I want to do something about it, but at the same time I am afraid.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Oh, man, when the "liberal" (ha) SF Chronicle started railroading Shelley

doing full-page exposes on such important news as how he was alleged to be a "mean boss".. (This is the same paper that felt clear evidence of Enron deliberately screwing the state for political purposes could be buried on page 7) I knew he was being set up, and I was pretty sure it had something to do with the recent stands he'd taken against Diebold.

I'm sure that they've been trying to nail down CA for a while.. but I also like to think they haven't been totally successful, at least not yet. I can't imagine that the "special election" that blew Arnold out of the water went off exactly as planned. I don't trust Macpherson, but I do think that there are enough aware people here that we can make a difference if we make a big enough stink.

I don't want to move, either. I really think if it comes down to living in a county where you may be forced to vote on one of these machines, the best option is to vote absentee. Like I said, that was the advice Shelley himself was giving before they threw him out. And I think they may count THOSE ballots by hand, even.

:)

[laheina]

60. I'm with you Ladyhawk.

I love NorCal and the US.

I think that I've been convinced regarding the absentee ballots. Crooked officials won't count your vote if they've decided not to. It makes it harder when there is evidence somewhere. I mean, the SoS can't run around the state *himself* and gather up all of the absentee ballots. It would take more people being involved. A conspiracy like that would be outed eventually.

Anyone who is going to vote absentee, remember not to wait until the last minute!!

[marions ghost]

67. the best compromise for the moment would be

"precinct-based" optical scanning WITH official random hand counts at each precinct. 1) You have a paper ballot, and 2) you have a check on the scanners.

The central tabulators could be monitored using a parallel data stream operated by an independent auditor.

[jillan]

43. No!!!!! That's what I thought in 2004......

They found boxes of uncounted ballots in Phx.


I don't know what is worse.:mad: :mad:

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I know when Shelley was first talking about Decertifying Diebold he was

encouraging people to vote Absentee.

I think if it's a choice between trusting a Diebold screen to record my vote, and having a paper record on an absentee ballot out there, I'd go with the absentee. But there are no easy answers to this, I think.

[Brain In Vat]

46. Exit polls

If you vote absentee you will not be exit polled and exit polling will expouse fraud.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Like it exposed fraud in 2004? I'd rather have my REAL vote counted

than my exit poll vote counted. I mean, if I read you correctly, you're saying that people should vote on these Diebold machines and allow their votes to be stolen, so that by participating in exit polls they can expose the vote fraud?

I dunno. I'd rather not take the chance.

And wait a minute- what exit polls? Aren't they doing away with exit polling for just that reason?

[txindy]

78. The cabal wants to do away with exit polling, yes. Oh, gee, I wonder why?

BECAUSE IT WORKS AND SHOWS THEM FOR THE CRIMINALS THEY ARE, STEALING ELECTIONS!

We know why.

[karlrschneider]

49. Exit polling only exposes fraud in the former Soviet Union.

...

[Zinfandel]

50. Here, here.,..

[laheina]

62. I once listened to an older repug woman

go on and on about how she told her kids to *lie* if they were ever polled. She never did give an adequate reason why she thought that this was a good idea, but after listening to this woman on other occasions, it became evident that she was a brainless rush-drudge-bushbot. I'm sure one of those sources told her that this was necessary.

She came up the stupidest crap, and I would go home to the internets, and sure enough, whatever it was that day would be on drudge's homepage. Brainless.

[txindy]

77. Huh? Massive exit polling in '04 showed fraud, yet M$M ignored it.

Claimed the exit polls didn't truly represent voters. :crazy:

[midnight]

66. Paper Ballet assures that it will be counted?

I must admit that the process of counting makes me uneasy. It's like your older siblings counting out the halloween candy. Three for them , and one for you. Does anyone have any assurance that the counting is being legally done?

[The Doctor.]

33. Only an act of real heroism

could hope to save America now.

[Ladyhawk]

36. :( God, I feel sick.

Come on, people. Isn't there something we can do? :( I really feel like I can't take this anymore.

[CrispyQ]

81. Me too.

Somedays I wonder how much more I can take. Everyday more & more outrageousness. Nothing changes. Nothing takes these guys down.
When will the people wake up?

When will people take time away from American Idol to find out what is really being done behind the scenes? How do you turn people who are barely making it paycheck to paycheck, have no health insurance, no retirement, a diminishing standard of living, but still believe dubya is making them safer? I try not to be defeatist, but holy crap, it's getting harder everyday to believe that there is anything decent left of this once great country.

[The Doctor.]

83. Well, atthe VERY least...

We can keep track of just where and in what critical counties the machines are installed and then do two things...

Tell everyone we know, including 'Republicans', just who will win which races... with special care to point out pre-election polling data favoring Democrats you have reason to believe will be usurped by machines.

Then... put your money where your mouth is... literally.

Las Vegas.

Every contest everywhere has a venue in Vegas... whether it's a prize fight, a horse race, or an election. Heck, any event whose outcome is uncertain has an oddsmaker in Vegas willing to take bets on it.

If you knew a horse race or a fight were rigged and you knew who was doing the rigging....

Wouldn't you bet on the fix?

I'm thinking that perhaps the best way to prove elections are rigged is to make a shitload of cash on the outcomes and wave it in everyone's face.

We have some pretty bright people here, we could easily figure out the spread based on the proliferation of the machines and the relative importance of the election results for Republicans down to the last precinct.

Hell, I think I'll start a thread on this.

[Ladyhawk]

84. Dr. Eldritch, Count Me In!

Would you please PM me when you start this thread? I don't have much money, but I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is on the 2006 elections if this goes down. I'm guessing House seats will be the big moneymakers because shrub needs to keep the House if he wants to avoid impeachment. I'm guessing they'll let enough Dems win that it won't look suspicious, but will work to keep the House in Republican hands.

We also need to know something about Dems running for office. We need to do background checks and see if there are any DINOs we don't know about, folks that can win with a D next to their names and still support the PNAC agenda.

These are just random thoughts I'm having. For awhile I really doubted the election theft stuff, but now I'm pretty sure it happened and will continue to happen.

[The Doctor.]

85. Holy Shite! LadyHawk m'love, you are brilliant!

And you think just like I do!

Did I ever mention how fascinated and enthralled I am with you?
(I may have mentioned something a year ago... about your name being one of my favorite movies)

I love to explore contingencies... and you seem to be very good at it.

I only just thought of this after I read your first response to my post, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

I'm not sure if I want to tip our hand just yet (projection of ramifications), but I think it must be done for many reasons other than personal profit.

If we can;

a) Cause a HUGE stir in the gambling community...
b) Prove our models are correct...
c) Make 'sacks and sacks of cash' doing it...
d) Wave those sacks and sacks of cash in Freeper faces...

The ripple effects may be serious enough to cause some serious repercussions nationwide.

I mean, imagine if the fact of vote rigging becomes conventional wisdom in Vegas... no oddsmakers will take bets on anything but star Democrats where there are Diebold machines, and no bets against Republicans where the machines are if they aren't trailing by at least 15% or so. -Okay, that's oversimplified, but the reality will be that Vegas will adjust for odds on Republicans based on prevalence of machines and agenda affiliation....

At the very least it will become a very poignant footnote in the annals of history, at best it will send a ripple of realization throughout the country.

We can't lose... and that's the best part.

I won't post a main thread just yet, and this one is quiet enough with our conversation being tucked away that exposure is mitigated, but perhaps you could help me put this together...

I'm in it now.

I'll PM you.

[Ladyhawk]

92. Thank you, my dear Dr. Eldritch.

Haha...I've picked up some CaliforniaPeggyisms! :)

Yes, I do a lot of thinking, sometimes too much. ;) As you may know, my mind is mostly artistic, but it can do logic, too. I'm not much of a numbers cruncher, but hey, I can be taught. Maybe. :)

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. Another thread on this - LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x413258
thread title (2-17-06 Election Reform): SHIT!!! Diebold to be certified in CA ... with yet-unstated conditions.
Comment/excerpt: Report from an email from CA State Senator Debra Bowen’s office “Apparently the SOS announced in a conference call with county elections officials today that he’s going to certify the Diebold machines for 2006 “with conditions,” but he didn’t lay out the conditions just yet.” Reply #10 has a link to the CA SOS’s press release: http://ss.ca.gov/executive/press_releases/2006/06_021.pdf

[Zinfandel]

41. I truly believe CA is different-We will challenge the bullshit!

Will it be enough? Once they are in office, its near impossible to do anything about it...The republicans know this -- Very, very well!

That's why they continue to get away with it.

Fuck the republicans!!!!

[rucky]

45. Now why would they do that? They break down so easily.

I mean, if somebody accidentally runs their keys down the side of the screen, the whole machine goes down.

[dweller]

47. not only that

but industrial magnets wreak havoc on them, and a small sledge hammer (or a larger one) concealed up your sleeve will reduce it to bits, bytes whatever, in no time.

what's one to do? ... let's talk warpaint. :crazy:

dp

[Zinfandel]

51. Got to proceed..

[truthpower]

53. How about making sure a pig is elected president?

C'mon, libertarian and progressive hackers beat the pants off brownshirt hackers any day. You want election software full of security holes?? You got it. Abby Hoffman nominated a pig for president. Maybe this time someone on our side can make sure a pig is actually ELECTED president, governor, whatever you want. Can't beat 'em? JOIN 'EM.

[EFerrari]

69. Too late.

:rofl:

[txindy]

79. Oh, my.

Ain't that the truth!

:rofl:

[dweller]

57. it take a

PLAN.

dp

[eppur_se_muova]

88. DRE, meet high voltage. Like a Taser. or a Tesla coil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil

All the emphasis in this article is on big coils, but pocket/pen size ones are certainly possible. Ask those clever EE's at CalTech or Berkeley. They'd love a project like this.

[upi402]

54. California Secretary of State Bruce McPherson, the next satan

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[wordpix2]

70. CA officials obviously didn't talk to CT's SOS, who refused to use Diebold

but when did repukes ever do research unless it was taking a poll from a repuke pollster?

[Greenbeard]

71. We must demand reciepts

If we can't get rid of Diebold (which desperately needs to be done)then we must atleast have some sort of check upon the system.

Begin asking the question to everyone you meet. Why isn't there a verifiable reciept printed in case there happens to be a question of election fraud? It makes no sense at all.

Question this idiotic and destructive system every chance you get. Remember, most people aren't even awake and thinking. It is our job to wake them up and make them think.

The hour is getting late.......

[MellowOne]

72. Can't you insist on a paper ballot when you vote

You don't have to use the machine, right?

[txindy]

80. I tried that here in Texas in the '04 election.

Nope, they didn't have any. I was shocked, I tell you. Shocked. :eyes:

[ComerPerro]

75. Hey, California wanted Ahhnold. Don't forget that...

[Ksec]

82. Lets do something

Buy a bunch of these machines and do a public display of how easily they can be fixed. Make it a major media event. How do we get the money?

Make the party do something with all that money we throw at them. Im sick of not seeing any results . USE MY MONEY BUT USE IT TO GET RESULTS/


The GOP has the majority but they dont control what we do outside of Congress.

[MaraJade]

89. It's now a sure thing that Repukes will win CA

Votes are rigged there. Repukes will win, no matter what. Those Diebold machines come to the polling places
already rigged so that Repukes win.

They arrived in Philadelphia already rigged at the last election. It is a sure thing that they will
arrive rigged in CA. If I were a betting woman, I'd bet on the Repukes in CA. It is a sure thing that
they will win.

If you bet on it, at least you'll be CERTAIN to win some money. It's a no-brainer. The CA elections are
already decided.

PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA--ATTENTION. DON'T BOTHER TO VOTE. Stay home on election day. CA is a lost cause. Repukes
control the state and always will (at least until Californians get wise and insist on paper ballots).
Dems shouldn't bother to spend any money at all there. That state is
already lost.

[Zinfandel]

90. The media can not be blamed enough for the ignorace...fucking status quo

Unfortunately, most people don't see electronic voting machines as a major issue, Shit, television hasn't even talked about it, so it must not be an issue!

Hahaha, say the republicans...

When the republicans can continue to hold power and allow just enough Dem's in office as is the case now, they can keep most people from getting wise and believing there is a problem...always keep just enough Democrats.

Keep the Dem's believing the republicans won because of morality, gay marriage and that the Dem's are too liberal, (and the stupid democrats believe their GOP enemy).

While the republicans continue to pass all their bullshit laws, legislation, spying etc., and no democrat can call them on it because the republican have complete power, because of their fucking electronic voting machines...We all know the republicans own the media so that's out of the question to expect it to be made widely known...

And if the Dem's go to the court...the republicans are putting in their judges to say to the Dem's, FUCK YOU!!!!

But most people don't see their republican owned voting machines as something to be too concerned with...surely not in their neighborhood, maybe some other neighborhoods, perhaps.

[Nutmegger]

93. Will people wake up when California suddenly turns "red" in '06???

Don't kid youselves...it's coming. DIEbold is just another piece to the puzzle.

What a rotten period in US history.