anybody watch Injustice tonight?

[American liberal]

It was sooooooo tragic. I could not stop crying. I'm used to seeing TV that has a happy ending, that all works out in the end. This was definitely not one of those shows.

I was about 13 years old when my brother and I sat on the front porch roof of my parents' middle class suburban Chicago home. It was early summer and he was home on break from college. We shared a joint while he made an effort to get to know me as I was then--not just as his "little sister." I remember him asking me if I believed in capital punishment. I had to tell him I didn't know what that meant. He explained it to me and I got quiet. Told him I'd have to think about it.

Well, I've been thinking about it and today I can say with conviction that capital punishment is wrong. Here in Illinois, 13 death row inmates have been exonerated of their crimes--many of them had been sitting in prison for more than 12 years. People are fallible. Our judicial system is flawed. The state should not have the right to murder people.

Tonight's episode of Injustice was so raw. The legal team kept coming up with the goods to free an innocent man, in this case a middle-aged black man with a slight mental disability. And they were shot down every time they went before the state supreme court. Literally, at the last minute (about 8 minutes before midnight), they came up with NEW evidence that pointed the finger at the truly guilty party. The judge wouldn't allow it and a beautiful child of God was wrongly put to death.

Here I was, just finishing dinner before going about my Friday evening plans and I felt I had been punched in the chest it hurt so bad. I couldn't stop crying because I KNOW, although they say the show is not about real people, that real people have been unjustly put to death just like this character in the drama. And that most of them are poor black men, which is what, as a woman of color raised in the United States, hurts the worst. How many more have to die before we wake up?

Peace,
AL

[Postman]

1. DNA evidence requirements might help?

I think if someone killed one of my family members and there were beyond a shadow of a doubt proof that the person was guilty I would approve of the death penalty.

[SPKrazy]

2. I Thought It Was A Good Program, They Can't Win Every Time

Especially if the writers have a message they are trying to get across, that I'm assuming being that Capital Punishment is wrong, and people are wrongly convicted based on a variety of reasons.

If no one ever died, if they never failed, they would be presenting an erroneous view of groups that work to stop executions, exonorate criminals convicted on false evidence, etc.

The failure resulted in the story of a man who died, despite the facts possibly contradicting it.

It spoke volumes about a lot of the problem. Ineffective defense in the first place. Prosecutors going after the wrong person and building a case that they were able to convince a jury of as being legit.

Our system, while the only one we got, is flawed. Especially in Capital cases. If we are going to have Capital Punishment, then there has to be a better way of making sure that the right person is convicted. Maybe Capital cases should be tried by prosecutors who have no connection to needing to be re-elected? Maybe the court has the obligation to assure that the defendant gets the BEST counsel possible, and not the only counsel available.

Ideally we would eliminate Capital Punishment, because it is cruel and unusual and wrong for the government to execute it's citizens.
It isn't a deterrent. It is revenge. Revenge should not be the motive for the creation of law, which allegedly operates with a logical flow.

I like the show, and it was powerful. Didn't hit me as hard as it did you, but the message was there for people who watched. I think it has been getting pretty good ratings. And this is a sweeps period, so they are aiming for shows that bring in larger audiences.

[American liberal]

5. I agree. It was good. Too good. too real (in a network TV kind of way)

The message was VERY powerful and I agree that they can't win all the time.

[SPKrazy]

6. If they won all the time, people might think there are really lots of

people getting off all the time, and why worry about it?

I've assumed from the title of the show, and the show itself from watching it, that the agenda of the writers is clear.

Guilty people get put away all the time because of police interrogation tactics forcing confessions (read beat, sleep deprived, lied to, etc)
and overzealous prosecutors who don't want to admit they made a mistake because they are elected officials and will do whatever it takes to keep innocent people in jail, despite knowing the truth.

I've seen some of these prosecutors on TV arguing AGAINST DNA evidence! They argue that the person was convicted so there must have been enough proof!

Uh, uh, it's all smoke and mirrors. Real courtroom trials aren't like TV trials. Lawyers, like anyone else, commit malpractice and usually never get caught. Some are lazy. Some aren't bright enough to be defense lawyers. Some are simply looking for glory and won't take cases that are hard, (I guess that is lazy)

geeeeez

I sometimes think we as a nation get lazier and lazier, and people expect more and more money from you for doing nothing.

I wonder who the hell you can trust anymore to even get your plumbing fixed, or car worked on, much less your body operated on or your life defended in court.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. This is why

I absotlutley HATE HATE HATE the death penalty. :mad: SOOOooo many innocent people get killed from it like this. Plus, people change and I believe in forgiveness.

[peacebaby3]

9. Ah, see there I knew we would be back on the same page! LOL

I like this much better! :D

[hlthe2b]

4. I saw it too...

At about the same age I wrote a debate piece for an English class on the death penalty and had to spend a lot of time sorting out my own feelings. I strongly defended my opposition to capitol punishment and was awarded some kind of honor for the piece (can't really remember details anymore). But, my teacher was very impressed and the whole exercise cemented my feelings on the matter. I've never waivered...

Yes, tonight's show was raw, emotional, and all too real. Sadly...

[lastliberalintexas]

7. The justice was Scalia like in his love of process over justice

That is what is so scary to me- that we have people participating in our system who love the process and order of the system more than actual justice. And police and prosecutors who get a tremendous amount of pressure to convict, especially if it's even a fairly high profile murder or rape case. The deck is so stacked against the accused, despite the best intentions of the founding fathers.

And yes, this show has made me cry every time I've seen it, and tonight was certainly the worst. But it does need to be that way, and I hope it succeeds in the ratings and gets its chance to possibly change a few minds concerning the death penalty.

[peacebaby3]

8. This is the work that I actually do. I've worked for a place just like the

"National Justice Project" except we took capital cases regardless of guilt or innocence. I still do the work now except I am self-employed and I am hired by attorneys either at the trial level or in post-conviction for investigation and mitigation work.

Someone mentioned DNA. Unfortunately, DNA is only an option in less than 25% of capital cases and if the DNA is older, there can be problems with testing. I'm not against DNA, but it is not the "magic cure" that many believe it to be.

If you think this TV show was emotional, you should live with it everyday. I'm glad they didn't show the guy getting off of death row because that is very, very rare. It is almost impossible to even get a hearing for someone already on death row. New evidence is extremely difficult and not even allowed in post-conviction unless there is overwhelming proof of innocence which is a hard burden to prove. Otherwise, you must argue procedural issues and hope to get it overturned so you can introduce new evidence. Most people do not understand this about capital cases. The defendant is not given any representation after the original appeal either. An original appeal is merely procedural and many people do not even realize they have had an appeal until they get a notice saying the decision was upheld so basically, they never have an attorney after the original trial unless someone takes the case on pro-bono.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop because I get rather passionate about the subject and I don't discuss it too much. I can get rather upset when confronted by someone who argues, but doesn't;t really understand the system. You'll probably notice that I stayed out of the Stan Williams discussion because I saw some complete ignorance about the DP and how the system works in some post that I just couldn't deal with it. There were actually people who couldn't grasp the concept that life without parole IS life WITHOUT parole. The only state that does not have an LWOP sentence is TX and that is one of the reasons you see so many people sentenced to death.

[American liberal]

10. Bless you, bless you, bless you for your work, peacebaby

I called a friend after the show (was still crying) and told her about the law student who sat with "Frank" every day for the last week of his life, knowing in her heart he was an innocent man, then had to witness his execution because she promised him she would be there for him...

OMG, that shook me to my core. I cannot imagine anything much more difficult than that, peacebaby. Working so hard to exonerate someone, trying so hard to do the right thing, then having to watch the state take another innocent life. It was truly gutwrenching.

I give you all the props in the world, peacebaby. I did a research report on the death penalty in college. And all my sources showed the disparities and inherrent flaws in the system--and ours is one of the "better" ones. And I learned what you mentioned in your previous post about how capital appeals cases are not publicly defended.

It's good to know that there are people like you out there trying to give every human being, guilty or not, a chance at justice. It's apportioned so sloppily, with the rich and powerful always getting away with it. I don't know if this has changed since I wrote the paper in 1995, but at the time, not a single wealthy person in the history of the United States had ever been executed. Not one.

I look forward to hearing more from you, peacebaby.

Peace,
AL

[peacebaby3]

12. Thank you for your kind words.

I've always been surprised that there is not a forum here at DU to discuss the DP, but I've never really had the time to propose one, but I think it would be a great forum.

I think many people would be surprised if they really researched the way the DP works in this country, particularly in the "death belt" (the Southeast US) where I work. I think you would see a lot more people at least concerned about how the system works even if they say they support the DP. I think one of the problems with having the DP though, is that it isn't something you can perfect and without having a perfect system you must be willing to accept that not all people will be "equal under the law."

Very glad to meet you! :hi:

[SeattleGirl]

11. That episode really got to me

Especially because the guy they put to death had such a low IQ. But really, putting anyone to death is abhorent to me.

[theophilus]

13. Read this from Molly Ivins. She shows that this activity is a trend and

is planned. Take a look:

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=miv

[peacebaby3]

14. Thanks. I have seen "The Case for Innocence" on PBS's Frontline &

"Burden of Innocence" which follows men who have been exonerated to see what happens to them after death row.

They are great and I highly recommend watching both of them.

This is a wonderful piece by Molly Ivins. Thanks for pointing it out to me.