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Abramoff scandal -- Stop buying the propaganda!

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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:12 AM
Original message
Abramoff scandal -- Stop buying the propaganda!
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 02:16 AM by pat_k
No Democratic member of Congress is "ensnared" in the Abramoff scandal -- and I will bet good money none are going to be!

The only way their attempts to tar Democrats will get anywhere is if we buy the malarkey they are trying to sell.

We cannot let ourselves be sidetracked by irrelevant foolishness.

Rule 1: Everything that originates with the reactionary right is a lie (and partial truths are the most insidious lies of all).

Rule 2: The beltway boobs parrot the lies.

Rule 3: Not sure if what you are hearing is a lie? Refer to rule 1.

The Big Lie:
Democratic members of Congress who got contributions from Greenberg Traurig lobbyists, Tribal Councils, or other sources that might be connected to Abramoff in some way, are just as dirty as Ney and Delay.


This is crap. Reject it in all its forms. No ifs ands or buts.

Democratic Members of Congress have introduced or supported initiatives that serve both tribal interests and the common good. Why wouldn't tribes seek to keep these folks in Congress through their contributions? It would be shocking if Dems DIDN’T get substantial contributions from tribal councils or from the Greenberg Traurig lobbyists that represent them.

Abramoff and Scanlon have engaged in some unbelievably dirty dealings, but that does not mean that every action advocated, or every transaction conducted, by a member of "Team Abramoff" was dirty.

The problem is not the contributions per se.

The actions taken by dirty legislators for personal gain are the problem.

Over and over again, Ney, Delay, and their ilk pushed through legislation that funneled our tax dollars into the pockets of their cronies for things that served absolutely no positive public purpose. They were bribed to take such actions and rewarded when the deeds were done.

There is absolutely no comparison between what men like Ney and Delay have done, and what men like Harkin and Reid have done.

Lets keep our eyes on the ball and set others straight whenever we can.

Reid was absolutely right to reject the notion that there was anything wrong with the $6,500 he received from associates of Greenberg from 1999 through 2004, or the $40,000 various tribal councils contributed during the same period.

As stated by Ernie Stevens, Jr., chairman of the National Indian Gaming Association:

"We don't always agree with Senator Reid, but I think he has been consistent on Indian gaming issues, and I don't think the contributions have changed his posture on any of those issues," Stevens said. "This is all part of the political process and we have a right to participate."

A simple comparison of the initiatives advocated by Dems and those advocated by Repubs puts rest the "both sides" malarkey.

A couple examples from the Democratic side:

Apology Resolution Introduced; National Congress of American Indians Praises "Meaningful Start"

NCAI President Tex Hall said the United States Apology Resolution, recently introduced in the U.S. Senate, is a "meaningful start for fixing what is wrong for Indian people in this country." Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS), who is introduced the legislation, S.J.Res. 19, to the floor of the Senate, along with Senators Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Christopher Dodd (D-CT), said tribes deserve an apology for what he calls the government's "poor and painful past choices."

July 2003 Daschle, Johnson Introduce New Indian Trust Reform Legislation link

Harkin wrote at least three letters in 2003 pressing the government to release federal money to help the Sac & Fox tribe in his state cope with the temporary closing of its casino due to a tribal dispute, according to Interior Department documents obtained by The Associated Press and records provided by Harkin's office.

Harkin "wrote these letters and worked on this issue because over 1,300 Meskwaki people and Iowans were out of work," Dobson said. "This was a very dire situation for the community."
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Who's buying those lies?
Or are you stating this as a rebuttal to the predictable wingnutty arguments we're bound to encounter tomorrow?
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Joyce78 Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I live in Ohio
NEY
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I live in Texas.
DeLay.

Sucks to be us, right now, doesn't it? It's about to suck to be them, though. In a major way. For years and years. :toast:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I want DeLay to sweat...a lot
Let him go back to hunting cockroaches or whatever he did (and you guys can get a good Democrat in his seat)
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I heard there are already 3 repubs lined up to challenge him
I hope we get a Democrat in there, but BugBoy's redistricting may be evil enough to prevent that. I hope the challenge to the redistricting succeeds. Let's hope.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. "bugboy."..I never heard that before. It's a perfect fit for a name
The Democrat better win
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Ahh lucky for la cucarachas
You can't be an exterminator in Texas AND be a felon.
So sorry for your luck Tommy Boy. NOT!!!!
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Makes sense. Who wants a felon in their house with deadly chemicals?
Let's take care of the problem and put the felon in prison. Yeah, that'll work. :toast:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Oh, no!
LOL! He'll finally be on the right side of that license. :silly:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. thank you for the BIG laugh
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Joyce78 Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hello Texas
It sucks here in Ohio. Our Gov is ranked last of the 50. That aside, McCain is another prick who should be investigated. I don't trust his lying, stealing, cheating arse. McCain should be leading the investigation into Diebold machines if he has any interest in election reforms ... or is his only interest in campaign contributions??
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I'm with you. I trust very few of them. McCain, not at all.
His colors were revealed during the 2004 election. To me, anyway. Not to mention his behavior and votes since then. Despicable.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Already seeing people -- even here -- fall into the trap
Speculation on whether the scandal will bring down Harkin.

People adding "and Democrats too" or "it's not a partisan issue" unnecessarily (it is partisan -- the fascists vs. the anti-fascistsm; the plutocrats vs. the democrats).

"The Big Lie" is deeply embedded in the rhetoric emanating from the beltway boobs -- and has gone unchallenged.

My frustration prompted the post.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Ah, well, then, I understand.
We're sometimes too fair and, yes, it is frustrating. This is not the time to be anything less than direct and to counter the lies/talking points. I'll keep an eye out, too. Thanks for the heads-up. :hi:
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Their Attempts to Tar Democrats Will Get As Far As The Media Carries Them
The only way their attempts to tar Democrats will get anywhere is if we buy the malarkey they are trying to sell.


You can expect every Democrat who got a contribution from anybody who ever met Abramoff to get swiftboated while the Repubs get a pass from the media.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. True -- but the Corporate Media is a little pissed off
at the Thugs right now. The NYTs and WaHO have both been made to look idiotic, at best.

Let's see how it tips. I think we're in good shape. :)
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Joyce78 Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Perhaps the NEWS
could report where Hastert's "charitable contributions" will be directed??
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. We have mouths. We can tell the truth.
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 02:49 AM by pat_k
It is OUR SIDE that needs to be inoculated. The more the folks on "our side" speak with one voice, the more the press will parrot us.

Too many on our side seem to have a knee jerk sense of shame when it comes to money in politics. We should be proud of the support our candidates get, not ashamed. Instead, when confronted with the "big lie" we see our leaders sounding defensive, wishy-washy, and vaguely guilty.

Not good.

I just want to do what I can to make sure "we" are the same page (The Nation, Mother Jones, etc.) before going after "them."

Perhaps I'm anticipating a problem we will not have, but we have failed to "get our ducks in a row" in so many other areas -- the worst being the fact that the The Nation, Franken, and other so-called voices of the center/left are still in denial when it comes to stolen elections of 2000 and 2004.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
8. The first strategy the Thuggery uses after silence
is distracting to the Dems.

(This time, Thugs are in the ridiculous position of saying, "This is a bipartisan scandal"! LOL!)

Don't help them.

If you see an elected Democrat falling for it, support them with mail and calls.

Make sure the right necks wind up in the noose.

:kick:
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. Hear, Hear!!! n/t
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Well Said, Ma'am!
People should take your words to heart!
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. I'll give you one thing....
Whenever a repub politician gets caught up in a scandal, supporters love to say: "Well you know, ALL polititians are crooked".

The implication is, of course, that the dems just aren't getting caught.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. And that knee jerk reaction is infuriating.... and needs to be nipped in
...the bud!
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. Wow
This reminds me of the belief in American innocence.
I have heard Democratic legislators themselves talk about fund raising, and about how the party had used the process of funneling money so that candidates can receive donations in excess of contribution limits from wealthy contributors. That happens on both sides, and it most definitely may fall outside of legal limits. Both sides have taken advantage of laundering loopholes they have found.
The most productive way for congress members to navigate this is to call for real campaign finance reform.
I wonder who will be the first to do it?
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No comparison -- Republicans conspire to fund crony programs no one wants
You are making the error I am warning against -- focusing on the contributions to the exclusion of the actions those contributions (both legal and illegal) reward.

What we need to be talking about are the corrupt Republican conspiracies to steal our tax dollars to fund bogus projects that line the pockets of their cronies.

Democrats are not in the business of lining their friends pockets with our tax dollars. The are not out for personal gain at the expense of the people they represent. Corrupt Republicans are abusing their power to do just that.

Duke Cunningham was not acting alone when he funnelled millions of our tax dollars into MZM. He and his co-conspirators (Kathryn Harris and others still in Congress) forced through project the Defense Department doesn't need and didn't want -- projects no one wanted (except the guys whose pockets were lined). The Democrats have consistently stood in opposition to these abuses.

It is about time that we pay attention to whether or not these folks are representing the interests of the people. While we focus exclusively on the source of campaign dollars, corrupt Republicans are stealing us blind. Campaign finance reform will not make corrupt Republicans stop abusing the power for personal gain. Campaign finance reform will not make politicians represent our interests. Only the people themselves can force them to represent us, and they can only do that if they start focusing on what these people are doing. Who they are getting money from is secondary.

All we have to do to minimize the influence of money in politics is assert our own power. (And we do have enormous power. Why do you think so much money is spent to manipulate people? We are the ones with the power. Not them.)

It is NOT both sides. If you doubt this, you might want to read Joe Conason's "Big Lies."
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