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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-18-06 11:59 PM
Original message
House bill to repeal the 22nd amendment. Link
This scared the crap out of me when I first heard about it. I can't believe the roaring silence on this.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.J.RES.24.IH:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. 22nd amendment reads
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 12:02 AM by HypnoToad
http://www.termlimits.org/Current_Info/22nd-Amendment-text.html

The 22nd Amendment

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section. 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

Ratification was completed on February 27, 1951.



Well, I doubt Bush will be so popular by 2008 - what with people increasingly upset over job losses and other problems our country is facing. So, yeah, let 'em pass it.
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juliana24 Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. No damn way !!!!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. No shyte....does this mean that Clinton gets to run?
Bill Clinton, that is. Not Hillary.

Bill would win in a landslide that no exit poll or attempt at stealing the election could cover up.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. NAFTA, DMCA, COPA, 1996 telecom act, I could go on for ages...
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 12:06 AM by HypnoToad
Clinton's the best president the repugs ever had.

And we're paying for NAFTA, DMCA, and COPA right now...

And if I recall, NAFTA has a provision that allows US to take Canada's oil in time of an energy shortage. (in which case I'm all for it; Canada signed the damn thing and should have known better from the outset.)
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. Clinton had a liberal personality and conservative politics... n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. HAHAHAHA!!
Somebody needs to tell those right wing lunatics that repealing the 22nd amendment would make it possible for CLINTON to run again!

I'd hate to see another Clinton presidency (either of them), but it would be lovely to see all those right wing heads pop like the carbuncles they are.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I like your point of view!
:rofl:

Still, politics is not dissimilar from acting.

Clinton made it look like things were goin' real good - while signing things that'd drive us to our graves sooner. Apart from the oil clause in NAFTA... :D

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
47. They own the evoting machines. No Dem will ever be prez again.
:( If they do this (repeal 22nd amendment) ...it's for King George to be in place so they can finish bringing this country to its knees.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #47
62. * is not at all popular now. But he wasn't popular before 9-11 either.
Another strategically planned "Pearl Harbor" could give * another chance to stand on a pile of rubble with a bullhorn and horsswaggle the people again. If the amendment then gets rushed through in a wave of patriotism, * will be having his head measured for a crown.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. I remember hearing about this sometime before 2004
That it was tried to have Bush stop the elections in the name of "security" so he could have another term. I've also read this before. I was really surprised of Hoyer.
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. No 22nd Amendment? Clinton Could Run Again
If there's no 22nd amendment, Bill Clinton could run again and probably wipe the floor with whatever sap the Far Right foists on the GOP. That would serve the wingnuts/dingbats right.

Hopefully there'd be less empathy, compassion, and forgiveness and a lot more name-naming and a@@-kicking directed at the right-wing unspeakables who have been ruining our country for the last twenty years.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. it is intended to allow another Diebold sham
to put the turd in power for another term.

not to allow the rodent to actually get elected.
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. except he wasn't so popular last time either.
With Diebold running the scam we could get screwed again.
:yoiks:
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Bill Clinton vs Diebold
I wonder who would win that one?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. well, considering they count the votes...
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. HOLY SHIT
:wow: :wow:

Mr. HOYER (for himself, Mr. BERMAN, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Mr. SABO, and Mr. PALLONE) are enemies of democracy. ASSHATS.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's text to proposed amendment, and 22nd amendment, list of states
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution. (Introduced in House)

HJ 24 IH

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 24

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 17, 2005

Mr. HOYER (for himself, Mr. BERMAN, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Mr. SABO, and Mr. PALLONE) introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

JOINT RESOLUTION

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:

`Article --

`The twenty-second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is repealed.'.


22nd Amendment is:
The 22nd Amendment

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section. 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

Ratification was completed on February 27, 1951.

Ratified by 41 states,
1. Maine March 31, 1947
2. Michigan March 31, 1947
3. Iowa April 1, 1947
4. Kansas April 1, 1947
5. New Hampshire April 1, 1947
6. Delaware April 2, 1947
7. Illinois April 3, 1947
8. Oregon April 3, 1947
9. Colorado April 12, 1947
10. California April 15, 1947
11. New Jersey April 15, 1947
12. Vermont April 15, 1947
13. Ohio April 16, 1947
14. Wisconsin April 16, 1947
15. Pennsylvania April 29, 1947
16. Connecticut May 21, 1947
17. Missouri May 22, 1947
18. Nebraska May 23, 1947
19. Virginia January 28, 1948
20. Mississippi February 12, 1948
21. New York March 9, 1948
22. South Dakota January 21, 1949
23. North Dakota February 25, 1949
24. Louisiana May 17, 1950
25. Montana January 25, 1951
26. Indiana January 29, 1951
27. Idaho January 30, 1951
28. New Mexico February 12, 1951
29. Wyoming February 12, 1951
30. Arkansas February 15, 1951
31. Georgia February 17, 1951
32. Tennessee February 20, 1951
33. Texas February 22, 1951
34. Utah February 26, 1951
35. Nevada February 26, 1951
36. Minnesota February 27, 1951 * Resulted in ratification
37. North Carolina February 28, 1951
38. South Carolina March 13, 1951
39. Maryland March 14, 1951
40. Florida April 16, 1951
41. Alabama May 4, 1951
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. I can't believe my state didn't ratify the 22nd amendment... n/t
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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hmmmm.....
President Bill Clinton sounds pretty good:evilgrin:
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sickinohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
44. Yep - I agree
Clinton / Clinton '08

:evilgrin:

Just kidding. I'd rather have Clinton (Bill) / Gore '08

Or, why can't it be Gore / Clinton (Bill) '08? Can Bill become the VP?
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. According to this section, *'s already eligible to run in 2008 ...
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 12:07 AM by imaginary girl
" ... no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term <b>to which some other person was elected President</b> shall be elected to the office of the President more than once ..."





ed. to clarify which "he" I meant
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Logical - and legal.
But, again, Bush isn't doing too well right now.

All they need is someone who can talk the talk while dishing out the same. People aren't fond of Bush, but from the people I talk with, they're Repubs until the day they die. And thanks to the jobs, veterans' rights, and other issues, it won't be long; one way or the other.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. That's cute, and I understand your position, but Bush indeed...
was elected twice, legally speaking. Recall that "elected" doesn't mean "direct election" in the United States. We have an Electoral College system, a kind of intermediary that does the actual selecting based on electors sent to it by the states. And the Supreme Court decided a 2000 dispute that ultimately allowed Florida to send Bush electors.

Yes, Gore may have won the popular vote in Florida, and he did win the popular vote nationwide, but he was never, ever elected.

I say all this as I have to assume you're either not from the U.S. or haven't studied Civics yet.

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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
57. Yeah, we live in a reactionary dump. That's for sure.
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 05:32 PM by Benhurst
"The land of the free."
What a joke! :rofl:
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. Actually I don't think he is
He served 4 years of Gore's term (some other person- LOL)

Of course the bad news is he was never elected at all so he can be elected twice more. Scary.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. Please explain that
interpretation!In no way is * able to run again currently under the 22nd.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. What he is saying it that bu$h was appointed by the Supreme Court.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. good point. n/t
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. At least . . .
. . . it won't be effective for 7 years after it's ratified (if it gets that far).
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. It's effective when it's ratified
the states have seven years to ratify it once it is submitted
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. This has been introduced before
It will never pass. It'll never even come to a vote. And if you notice, it was proposed by Steny Hoyer, a Democrat.

I think it was introduced last term by a Democrat from New York, as a ploy to suggest Clinton could run again in 2008.
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. Clinton & Reagan both supported repealing it
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 01:14 AM by Nicole
I think it comes up every session.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. It would never pass, besides it means Big Dog could run against W
and who do you think would win in that matchup?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
55. Bush would win in a landslide thanks to fraud. You have to know that
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. 3 of 4 sponsors are democrats
What are they up to???
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CurtEastPoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's JUST what I was checking...
4 of the 5 names are Dems. Sensenasshole of course is a Rxxxxxxxxxx. What the frig is going on here? What am I missing?
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. looks like it died in committee.
check the status, referred to sub-committee last June. It's dead.
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. I hope you are right.
I read about this several weeks ago and couldn't believe it wasn't causing an outrage. I saw in another thread a note about the 22nd amendment and it made me go looking again.
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. Oh my god...
This can't be good...right?:shrug:
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
23. And will quickly work to pass it again
before the end of Clinton's third term.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. Bush claims he can over ride the Constitution.
There is no need to change it.

According to Gonzales, Congress gave him the authority to do whatever he wants in order to protect the children of the US.

I am now having dry heaves.....
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. Why would that scare you? I've always thought it was a bad amendment
Why can't we vote for someone for a third term if we want to? It was an anti-Roosevelt amendment and it should not be in the Constitution any more than an anti-flag-burning amendment.

And Bill would kick Bubba's butt if he ran again.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
50. I agree.
The voters should decide.

--IMM
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
56. Fraud. Bush would be president for life.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. Then it wouldn't matter, anyway.
If there is that much fraud, then whoever follows Bush will just be chosen by the same people, so so what? Either we have real elections and the people should get to vote for whomever they choose, irregardless of whether Congress likes who we choose, or there is fraud and one puppet is as good as the next. Fraud might even be easier to prove if they keep electing the same person, since the people would begin to realize no one liked the person in power.
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
28. Here is a statement from the man who introduced the resolution
Steny Hoyer (D-MD)


link

“I introduced today a joint resolution to repeal outright the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution. The 22nd Amendment requires that no person who has served two terms, or who has served more than two years of another President’s term and their own elected term, be permitted to serve another term of office.

“The time has come to repeal the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution, and not because of partisan politics. While I am not a supporter of the current President, I feel there are good public policy reasons for a repeal of this amendment. Under the Constitution as altered by the 22nd Amendment, this must be President George W. Bush’s last term even if the American people should want him to continue in office. This is an undemocratic result.

“Under the resolution I offer today, President Bush would not be eligible to run for a third term. However, the American people would have restored to themselves and future generations an essential democratic privilege to elect who they choose in the future.

“A limitation on the terms that a President could serve was not fully discussed by the Founding Fathers. However, Alexander Hamilton, in Federalist Paper 72, recognized that one important benefit of not having term limits on the President would be:

“to enable the people, when they see reason to approve of his conduct, to continue him in the station in order to prolong the utility of his talents and virtues, and to secure to the government the advantage of permanency in a wise system of administration.”

“After President George Washington retired after serving two terms, a custom emerged that was not broken until President Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected to four terms. The people chose President Roosevelt because they desired trusted and effective leadership.

“We do not have to rely on rigid constitutional standards to hold our Presidents accountable. Sufficient power resides in the Congress and the Judiciary to protect our country from tyranny. As the noted attorney and counsel to Presidents, Clark Clifford, said:

“I believe we denigrate ourselves as an enlightened people, and our political process as a whole, in imposing on ourselves still further disability to retain tested and trusted leadership. The Congress and the Judiciary are now and will remain free to utilize their own countervailing constitutional power to forestall any executive overreaching.”

“Furthermore, a ‘lame duck’ President serving in his second term is less effective dealing with the Congress and the bureaucracy than a President should be. I do not believe that the people want a popularly chosen President who will be weakened in a second term. The removal of the President from politics as prescribed by the 22nd Amendment has the effect of removing the President from the accountability to political forces that come to bear during regular elections every four years.

“The 22nd Amendment reflects a fundamental distrust of the judgment of the American people. However, trust of the good sense of the people is one of the cornerstones of democracy.


“In 1820, Thomas Jefferson wrote:

“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion.”

“I believe the repeal of the 22nd Amendment will restore power to the people themselves and make our Constitution more democratic. I hope my colleagues will join me in this effort.”



Odd.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
38. “We do not have to rely on rigid constitutional standards to hold...
our Presidents accountable. Sufficient power resides in the Congress and the Judiciary to protect our country from tyranny."

And we know this because they are doing such a great job of it now, aren't they?

This guy is insane.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. The best arguments against Hoyer&#8217;s bill
Quote…..
“We do not have to rely on rigid constitutional standards to hold our Presidents accountable. Sufficient power resides in the Congress and the Judiciary to protect our country from tyranny……F*CK ME DO!

“The 22nd Amendment reflects a fundamental distrust of the judgment of the American people. However, trust of the good sense of the people is one of the cornerstones of democracy……….Not whan half the country thinks Bushit is great!
end quote.......
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. It's a meaningless proposal
It's gone nowhere.

The idea is good -- let the people decide. But there was no reason behind proposing it except as a curiosity and for some sound bites.

The main problem we face is the ability to steal elections using Diebold/ESS voting machines.

--p!
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Innocent Smith Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
33. That has been posted before
It is over a year old. It went nowhere. And an attempt to repeal the 22nd amendment will go nowhere for a long, long time - if ever.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
34. I thought this was a joke... Anyone else scared sh**less right now? n/t
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
41. My article--"It's the Term Limits, Stupid."
It's the Term Limits, Stupid.

The 22nd Amendment

Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section. 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by the Congress.

Ratification was completed on February 27, 1951.


Imagine, if you will, the following scenario:

In the year 2000, Governor George W. Bush of Texas manages to gain the office of President of the United States by an extremely slim margin in the state of Florida due to a concerted Republican effort to suppress the voting rights of black Floridians and halt the unfinished vote recount in 4 Florida counties. Once in office, he breaks the law, lies to the American people and the world (with the help of other members of his administration), allows the largest terrorist attack in US history to take place despite the warning of the outgoing Clinton administration and his own intelligence community, and clears some brush.

In 2004, he is re-elected to the office by supporting fabricated attacks on his opponent's military record, opportunistically using the pubic's memories of the very terrorist attack he allowed to happen in order to instill the image of himself as a hero and champion of freedom, and being friends with the right people (i.e., the ones who own of have owned voting machine companies). Thus far in his presidency, he has led the nation into an illegal war in which thousands of our sons and daughters and countless Iraqis have lost their lives, illegally wiretapped its citizens, racked up an astronomical deficit, and supported the torture of "detainees" at US controlled foreign prisons.

In 2008, after thousands of additional lives have been lost, the deficit has reached a number no average American citizen can imagine, the world has lost any remaining shred of respect they once had for the US, the United States has illegally invaded yet another country (coughcoughIrancoughcough), and our civil liberties have shriveled to the point of nonexistance, good 'ole George runs again.
Backed by the right-wing media machine, evangelical Christian leaders who preach politics from the pulpit while managing to avoid paying taxes, and indirect control over private electronic voting machine companies, he is handed the office of "leader of the free world" once again.

By 2010, we are at war with the Middle East at large (with the important exception of Saudi Arabia, where 15 of those terrorist hijackers came from, which is of no consequence whatsoever), we have nuclear warheads pointed at Iran, North Korea, Syria, and just for fun, France (those wimps--who likes them anyway?). Our entire country has been mortgaged off to China to keep our wars financed. Our press is given statements each day directly from the White House Press Secretary, and the information herein is the only information they are allowed to pass on to the public. The White House press office is officially renamed Ministry of Information.

The American public is now enormously supportive of the President, because he controls their access to news with an iron grip. The remaining dissidents (many have been arrested at this point as "enemy combatants" of the United States and either disposed of quietly or interned in camps built by Halliburton subsidiaries) are no longer able to communicate electronically due to the privatization of the Internet and univeral telephone surveillance and only survive by joining together and living in underground bunkers.

In the year 2011, the United States, at the direction of its president, launches nuclear weapons at "key military targets" in the Middle East and succeeds in killing millions of innocent people and, due to ineffective long-term planning, the radiation from these bombings slowly creeps across the entire surface of the planet until the entire world population succumbs to violent radiation poisoning resulting in the complete extermination of the human race.

(end scenario)

Now, I realize that this little fairy tale is extreme, but it serves my purpose. The 22nd Amendment to the United States Constitution was created and ratified to control the power of the executive. There is currently a bipartisan proposal arguing for a repeal of the amendment. There are arguments made both for and against repealing this amendment, and there is certainly merit to each side, but I want to suggest a third alternative.

One side of the 22nd Amendment argument is that the amendment itself is undemocratic, as it takes control away from the voters by removing their ability to continue voting for a leader whom they support. There is logic to this. Voters are able to re-elect their Congressional representatives as many times as they choose, without limit. The only way in which Congressional offices are controlled is by the election process--every two or six years, the voters have the opportunity to choose a different representative or senator, and representatives and senators can be re-elected indefinitely. Presidents, on the other hand, have only two chances to serve in the office and are then ineligible for re-election. In this argument, it is assumed that the Legislative and Judicial branches have sufficient oversight power to control the Executive and keep the holder of that office from overreaching. This is the rationale currently being used to argue for a repeal.

The other side argues that presidential term limits are an absolute necessity in order to control the power of the executive and keep it from expanding unreasonably. This argument takes into account the necessity of limiting executive power and understands that the legislature and judicial systems are not always able to counter that power due to their connections to the executive himself (i.e., a Supreme Court nominee of a sitting president is likely to side with that president on many issues and a member of Congress who comes from the same party as the executive may feel the same or may be under pressure to submit to the party's opinions on the issues).

Both of these arguments are valid, but there is a third suggestion that is not often mentioned. I believe that presidential term limits are an absolute necessity, that it is vital to control the power of the executive in order to sustain a democratic state. However, so long as Congressional representatives are able to hold office indefinitely and judicial appointees are put on the bench for life, it is patently undemocratic to lock presidents out of office after only two terms. So, I have an alternative proposition to repealing the 22nd Amendment: We need to expand the provisions of the amendment to include members of Congress. We also need to impose term limits on members of the federal judiciary.

We have fallen into a trap which I do not believe our nations' founders anticipated--a trap in which a whole new occupation has been birthed--the career of the politician. Instead of our country being led by honorable statesmen, it is led by career politicians who represent interest groups and business communities rather than the mass of the people. Many of these are first elected early in middle age and sit in the hall of our legislature until they are no longer physically or mentally capable of performing their duties. Our democracy would benefit twice over if this were no longer the case.

Imposing the two term limit on United States senators would protect our democracy by allowing more Americans to take part in our government. As the system currently stands, it is very difficult to defeat an incumbent senator. If, every four or twelve years, it were mandatory for the senator or representative to be replaced, another United States citizen with the desire to work in public service would be granted that opportunity where he or she might not have if they were forced to face an incumbent. Also, if these members of Congress were not eligible to simply continue on in their posts, the American public would be much more likely to vote in midterm elections. Many Americans tend to vote only in presidential elections, because these are the most visible. Elections for the Senate and House often fly under the radar for voters because they do not receive as much publicity as presidential elections. I believe that imposing term limits on Congressional representatives would revatilize a tired electorate.

In order to realize the true ideal of our democratic state, we must go one step further and impose term limits on the judiciary. Federal judges are appointed to the bench for life. They can only be removed from this office by force of law, retirement, or death. This is an extremely antiquated tradition, and it is vital to our continuing democratic success to eliminate it. Because federal judges are appointed by the executive, they are undeniably tied to the beliefs of the president who appoints them. Although these judges are intended to be impartial guardians of the rule of law, their position is, by its very nature, political and must be treated as such.

I propose that a definitive term be set for members of the federal judiciary. Although they are not elected officials, they are placed in their posts by elected officials. A term of ten consecutive years seems like a reasonable limit to me. The term would begin on the day the appointee is confirmed by the Senate, and end ten years to that day. Some would argue that a term limit for a judge will politicize the judiciary, but I believe that since the judiciary would continue to operate outside of the electoral process, this would not be a problem. I propose that it would, in fact, moderate the courts by continually revolving the actual persons serving. The purpose of a democratic system of government is to safeguard the guarantee that government is carrying out the wishes of the majority of the public. Lifelong appointments are not conducive to this ideal.

We have been searching desperately for new ways to revive the American electorate. Voters are often apathetic to the political process and feel that it is unrealistic to take part because it is so far removed from them personally. By allowing them to change the makeup of Congress more often, we give the power back to the people, where it belongs. By ensuring that judges will change regularly, we give them hope that our legal code will not grow stale, but will continue to grow as our perceptions of the world and our place in it evolve.

By imposing mandatory term limits on all branches of our democratic government, we can finally fully realize the dream of our nation's founders--a government that is truly of, by, and for the people, with laws created by the consent of the governed.


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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
43. Calm yourselves, my children, calm yourselves... 'Taint gonna happen...
Remember, while the 22nd Amendment deprives the country of the services of a good President, it also serves to protect us from the perpetual servicing of a bad president (like , needless to say). 2/3 of each house in agreement, followed by 3/4 of the states? Not now. Probably not in the remainder of my lifetime.

OTOH, it's not as if Chucklenuts the Unitary (praise be unto him) is all that big a fan of that "damned piece of paper" anyway.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
45. Not A Chance It Would Make It Through 66 States
The Repugnicans in Washington can create ammendements all day long (and they probably would have), but without the votes in the states, any changes to the Constitution aren't gonna happen. You'd need 2/3rds of the states to go along with this as well, and the numbers just aren't there. Democrats control enough state houses to prevent this or any goofball (gay marriage) ammendement from moving forward just like the wingnuts derailed the Equal Rights Ammendment in the 70's and 80's.
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eggman67 Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Where'd the other 16 states come from? :) n/t
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rpgamerd00d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
49. As someone pointed out to me, BILL CLINTON 08. 99% of popular vote.
100% of Electoral College.


No repub would push this bill.

p.s. this bill is already dead in committee.
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. I found that after I posted. Sorry everyone.
I saw this several weeks ago and it chilled me to the bone. I am sure the big dog is too busy enjoying his retirement to ever run again. It scared me to think that * might try to use this to be selected again. I did not read far enough. My Bad! But it is kind of funny that one of my threads finally made the greatest page. Even if it does make me look like a scared dumbass. Oops.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. I'd add...
"But this does not count for anyone who is in the Bush Dynasty."
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Mugsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. Don't flame me: I SUPPORT THIS!
I've long complained about the 22nd that limits Presidents to two (consecutive) terms. It is extremely dangerous, and I think we are now seeing some of the reasons why.

Congress felt the 22nd was necessary after FDR died early into his fourth term while the country was still at war. They felt that allowing someone to serve so long that they die in office puts the country at risk.

But I ask you, what is the greater risk? Dying in office due to age or having a man serve as President that no longer has to worry about being responsible to the public?

The 22nd prevented Bill Clinton from running again, and despite the "Lewinski" scandal, would have trounced George Dubya... as proved by still loosing to Al Gore by a slim margin... and Gore was not the campaigning machine Clinton was/is.

If you want a good idea passed, you may need to suck it up and pass it when it may not be in your best interest.

Likewise, I agree with giving the President the "Line Item Veto" (which Bush asked for in his SotU). Clinton wanted it too. It could streamline our government considerably and be a huge first step toward "single issue" bills with no riders or earmarks.

If it's a good idea, it should matter who's President when you pass it.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. "allowing someone to serve so long that they die in office..."
That was NOT the real reason. They just knew that Democrats were more likely to get a third or fourth term. Republicans, by that point, have always been either (1) too old, if not dead, or (2) caught.

This was a strictly spiteful, anti-Roosevelt amendment.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
63. I agree - Was FDR Wrong to Serve a Third Term?
I can't say that FDR's third term worked out so badly :)

I don't support term limits - they're well-intentioned, but they have lots of unintended consequences (i.e. no elder statesmen in the legislature, nobody familiar with the rules, lack of experience).

And I always ask this of people and nobody has given me a satisfactory answer - you can't say you support the 22nd amendment then say then approve of FDR's third term. One answer is that "those were extraordinary times" - but what's to say that such times won't happen again? Would we want the "next FDR" to have to retire in the midst of a major crisis?

That said, I don't think it should apply to anybody currently holding the office or anybody elected prior to the amendment being passed - just like the 22nd exempted Truman from its provisions.
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Crazy Guggenheim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
59. That was introduced in Feb 2005. It died in committee.
:popcorn:
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Dhampir Kampf Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
60. Personally, I think politicians, should be limited to one term.
So in years like this, their judgement is represented by them trying to get reelected, but by what they were elected in the first place to do. If we shifted in new politians every term, most of the time they'd be newer, and younger, and more likely to represent what truly is America, and what it should be.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Interesting Dhampir
Looking at your avatar, I'm reminded of the Confederate Constitution.

They looked at the US Constitution, and had committees meeting for weeks to decide how to write their own Constitution.

They ended up just keeping the US one with very few changes.

One of the few changes they decided on was to limit their president to one six-year term just for the reason you said.

They also put in a line item veto for the president. Otherwise, it was pretty much the same as the US Constitution that they were leaving.
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