Fighter pilots in the news

[oneighty]

Bush

Rumsfeld

Cunningham

McCain

Just saying.

180

[benburch]

1. Ummm....

McCain was a BOMBER pilot.

[maine_raptor]

2. The A-4 McCain flew is a Fighter/Bomber

Primary role is as a bomber, but it does have a figher role (carries the AIM-9 Sidewinder).

And I don't understand the point of this thread anyways.

[oneighty]

4. I am thinking

how poorly they represent those brave men and women that fly military aircraft.

Korea 1952 an American fighter plane buzzed our mine sweeper. We thought he was going to attack us. But no, he crashed into the sea a few hundred yards off our starboard side. The big prop plane sunk instantly pilot and all. It seemed many minutes until the pilot bobbed to the surface.

We picked him up with our motor whale boat. As we helped him aboard the ship he sad cool as could be; "Thanks fellows."

That is how I think of fighter pilots. 'Thanks fellows."

180

[maine_raptor]

9. A fighter pilot, of necessity

has to be able to think fast and react at the same time. You have to be 2 steps ahead of the plane. Fighters are unstable craft, they have to be in order to perform as they do; tight turns, high roll rate, etc. In addition, in a fighter plane you are the pilot and navigator, responsible for your own fate, and dependent on your knowledge, experience, and sense of self worth.

Add to that the fact that the role of a fighter pilot is to be aggressive, something that is drilled into the mind from the beginning of training. Thus quick aggressive thinking is an asset to a fighter jock.

Now having said all of that; I know many fighter pilots. Some of them would make the rightest RW'r shake their head in awe of their political views. Others, though, can see what is happening to this country; they know that the Oath they also swore to is being violated by those at the NCA (National Command Authority) level. But they do what they do because they believe in keeping this nation free from harm from the outside.

It all boils down to the person. To pick 5 or ten individuals out of a list of thousands who have worn the wings is just an exercise in bad logic.

IMHO, of course.

Edited for typo

[oneighty]

12. You misunderstand

The ones I picked out shame the others. That is my only point. They are shameful.

Being brave aggressive quick thinking do not require one to be an ass hole, thief and crook. It is not an excuse.

180

[maine_raptor]

13. I agree, and that's why I said it's the person, not the job.......n/t

[oneighty]

3. Details details

None of them are very nice people. You think?

180

[Kingshakabobo]

5. Did McCain get shot down on his first combat mission?

I've been meaning to post this question. I thought I picked up that detail while watching a biography on him.

[acmejack]

7. No.

There some great film of him escaping his burning aircraft on the Forrestal during the conflagration onboard in 67. he ran down the nose and escaped just before the armament cooked off. I believe 137 men were less fortunate that day.

[Kingshakabobo]

8. Yes, I saw that documentary on the Forestall. The still doesn't he wasn't

....shot down on his first COMBAT mission. I'm sure he had several training missions/flights from carriers.

I could be (probably am) wrong here. I thought I heard it in a documentary on him.

off to google I go

[RedOnce]

11. Yes, as I recall there was another incident...

a crash, he ended up in a river.

[Kingshakabobo]

10. I was wrong. It was his first mission on The "Oriskany"

He had five missions prior to his last.

[acmejack]

14. I still had a lot of respect for him at one time.

Despite his politics, I thought he had the strength of his convictions. Kind of like Ron Paul. Ever since he hugged * after they had done what they did to him & his family, I knew where the cards really lay.

Sadly, he is just another republiCON.

[Maestro]

6. Chickenhawks in the news

Republicans:

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.