Need Help - Why Is Abramoff Copping To A Deal?

[matcom]

seriously here. he basically OWNS a good chunk of Congress. we know its a sham prosecutor and 'investigation'

too many people are gonna get hurt on this one. it (could) ruin MANY a political career. WHY take the deal? What is being protected in doing so?

these aren't rhetorical, i'm looking for answers here. i think this is as big a story as what took place.

thoughts?

[sandnsea]

1. What do you mean?

Stop more investigating by pleading early?

[ObaMania]

2. Because 30 years in the can is a loooong time.

Look, if those whom he hooked up didn't protect him from this, then they should go down with him!

[underpants]

25. Yep cutting it down to 11

which is less

[noonwitch]

38. Only 2-3 years if he gets a pardon in 2008

You never know what his deal with the Bushes really is.

[CornField]

3. When he cops the deal, he owns the show

That is, he will then be allowed to dictate what is said and what is NOT said.

Let's say I know about a horrible disaster... acres upon acres of bodies. Since I've seen it, I know it is true. You, on the other hand cannot fathom something that large. If I take you and show you just one acre, you'll be satisfied because you have no idea of all the others -- you'll think just by the depth of the ugliness you've seen that you know everything I do.

Abramoff is going to show them one acre of bodies while keeping 10 more secret.

[HereSince1628]

8. I think there may be more than a grain of truth in that.

And then there is also the reduction in years needing to be served.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. Because they ALL want to tamp it down and keep it as small as possible

They also ALL want to keep it out of a courtroom and open testimony. He is guilty of hundreds of crimes and has who knows how many co-conspirators. If he only gets charged with 3 and only takes down a few ceremonial co-conspirators, the rest of them can chalk it up as a HUGE victory, which it will be. Abramhoff will be gone, but nature abhors a vacuum and his disciples and co-conspirators will remain in place so that it continues to be "business as usual" only "under new management"

[liberalnurse]

5. Ya know, he was rather careless

and excessive through out this escapade. I sense that he had every intention of getting "so called caught" with the Congressional break-up as the prize. He is making a sweet deal which may of already a calculated sacrifice.

[matcom]

10. doesn't make sense

he OWNED the show. OWNED the people involved. doesn't make sense to be careless

[liberalnurse]

17. No, it does not make any sense

to be so careless....that is what does not feel just right....something is off the mark. He is way too smart to be so repeatedly blayton. I don't exactly believe He Owned Them...but more like, Who Owned Abramoff?

To be that careless, one would have to be a crack addict on a crackhouse binge. Or, it was an organized act. :shrug:

Was the real goal to destroy from within?

[sandnsea]

30. Here's a short story

About a guy who fell asleep in the middle of robbing a mini-mart. Crooks are stupid. Think about the average IQ of a cop and then factor in that cops actually do catch crooks. Think how stupid Libby had to be to lie to the grand jury. They're crooks, con men. Not smart, just very good at conning. Their con ran out, that's all.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. Because the prosecutor isn't a sham prosecutor?

Because all of the other prosecutors on the case aren't sham prosecutors? Because if it didn't go forward, they'd bolt, tell what was going on to the media, etc? I think people are reading too much into the appointment of the head prosecutor in this case.

[matcom]

7. interesting point about the media

how far are THEY involved? we know the media has been bought and paid for up until now. there is a report that Chris Matthews is somehow connected.

what about THEM? surely, the media wasn't beyond his reach were they?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. The Matthews thing is a non-starter...

...except insomuch as it explains his no-big-deal attitude to the whole thing. By the standard used against Matthews, Placido Domingo is "implicated."

I'm not sure what actual involvement the media would have, or need to have, aside from being their normal ass-kissing selves, which they do for free.

[H2O Man]

23. I agree.

Sometimes things are what they are. While it is good to look at all possibilities, it is important to recognize that every person in Washington wasn't involved. If one has, for example, $20 million to invest in buying influence, you do not need to dilute it by investing in what is not necessary. Those with $20 million tend to understand the ways to get maximum returns on their investments.

[Nordmadr]

27. Yeah, I agree, though I am worried. Once the cat is out of the bag

you can't hide it.

Olafr

[ngGale]

9. Because he could get more time in....

Miami? One reason to cop a plea. Actually, Abramoff seems to be getting off pretty easy. Could be a sham trial to keep us busy...or at worse, get rid of Congress.
Then * would have full reign of this country...or whatever his agenda is.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Looks Like We Were On The Same Thought!

Cheers...

[KharmaTrain]

11. That Miami Trial Is A Real Killer

He was looking at 30 years of being somebody's bitch and living in the world of cigarette currency. This isn't quite the thing a nice orthodox Jewish boy from Beverly Hills is used to dealing with. My bets are his turning was contingent on a very soft "prison farm" deal with liberal parole...where depending on how many fish he fries translates into how much time gets knocked off for "good behavior". If he hands over something big, be assured he'll be back on the streets in 4 years, not the entire 10.

Also, as long as he cooperates, he remains free. He keeps his bacon out of the shitter until all the prosecutions are wrapped up...and that could be years. In the meantime, Jack gets full-time guard service and the more damage he does, the better he looks in the end.

Also, being orthodox, I could see a strange religious need to "cleanse" himself now that he's been caught. Think of it like a born-again who will plead to every sin in the book as part of their conversion...to "cleanse" their soul, and that now that Abramoff has been shamed he must now "atone" (his word...very important one) for his sin and go the "fully monty".

The big deal here was the Miami trail where he was facing being implicated in murder for hire. I'm sure that plea deal keeps him miles away from that rap...and if it means taking his "goyishe" buddies with him...so be it!

[tenshi816]

24. I believe you are exactly right.

I been thinking about this too, about Abramoff being an orthodox Jew and wondering how he squared that in his own mind with all the sleaziness and dishonesty of his wheeling and dealing over the years. I almost wonder if he's not relieved in a way that his house of cards has come tumbling down. Looking at the photographs and video of him I've seen recently in court, he doesn't look cocky. He looks subdued and ashamed - quite unlike his good friend Tom DeLay.

Like you, I figure Jack's soft prison deal is contingent on him taking down a couple of very, very big fish along with a lot of little ones. Otherwise, why would the prosecutors bother agreeing to a deal? If Abramoff comes through for them, I can't see him doing more than 5 years in prison, and maybe even as little as 3, but for that he's got to have something extraordinarily good he can give the prosecution.

I wonder what will happen after that? A book? A bright shiny new, and repentant, Jack Abramoff making the rounds of the talk shows talking about how he was just a simple lad who got led astray?

[KharmaTrain]

29. Just Look At Chuck Colson

Or The G-Man or Ollie North. I predict Abramoff will host his own hate talk radio show in another 10 years. ROFL.

Either that or maybe he could have a true mea culpa...like John Dean or David Brock. I tend to think he'll fall somewhere in between. He'll do his time and slither back into the Hollywood Hills, dig up the money he burried in the back and then sell his story to one of his neighbors.

Cheers...

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Because there is a real prosecutor on this case

who has him by the balls and it's not a matter of whether or not he is going to jail, just for how long.

Besides, all his old pals are dumping him like a hot potato, even Bush can't remember him anymore. Plus his partners Scanlon and Kidan were already making deals to save their own sorry asses.

[Gman]

14. 30 years is not worth protecting anyone's ass

[dusty64]

15. The regime could

use this to keep congress in line. Don't want them to get to "independent" and worried about representing their constituents ya know.

[xchrom]

18. two things -- first abramoff has five kids doesn't he?

30 years or the threat of thirty years would be important to him -- EVEN if he owned congress.

and owning congress doesn't mean things can't unravel.

second -- i think somebody is after more than abramoff -- now does that mean somebody wants to send some congress critters to jail or expose some other corporate interests -- or go after the admin and the 9-11 and airline put options -- i don't know.

i don't think anyone knows for sure yet.

all we DU know is that all these fingers run past abramoff -- he's just one part of it all -- we will get meat with those potatoes -- fuck if i know.

[matcom]

19. airline put options

the guy i was talking to last night mentioned that angle. (just a guess mind you)

also the SunCruz cruiseship angle.

they COULD be connected

[xchrom]

21. i'm getting to be sure they are.

or at least we might begin to see real threads where they are connected.

i read your thread from last night -- and i'm fascinated.

i don't know yet what to make of everything -- because there is just so much.

one thread i'm particularly interested in is the norquist/abramoff connection.

[bigbrother05]

20. Had a dream about this last night

It was all a sham, he's working for NSA, finding out who is corrupt.

[Al-CIAda]

22. Managing a limited hangout , manipulating the outcome/damage.

[meganmonkey]

26. I agree with many here - it is a matter of saving his own ass

it's all he cares about. Despite his connections, I think this scandal is too big for him to assume he will get pardoned or something, at least not for quite awhile.

Shorter prison time. Sometimes this answer we seek is the simplest one. Maybe there is more to it, but I don't know what.

[seemslikeadream]

28. Boulis Investigation Dredges Up Big Names - Abramoff

“Casino Jack” Abramoff and minion Adam Kidan just may be about to get away with murder.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1436668



Just keep in mind what Jack's favorite movie is.

[lapislzi]

31. Because there is no honor among thieves?

Did Sammy the Bull Gravano protect Gotti? I don't think so...it's about saving your own ass, or as large a chunk of it as you can cover.

[Reverend X]

32. Isn't this really just the smallest lobby?

So the Native American Casino industry is the only corrupt industry willing to use criminal lobbyists to influence lawmakers. That's good news. Cuz' just think what Big Pharma, Big Oil, and the MSM could do if they were as corrupt and creative as Small Casino.
I like the 100-1 acres of bodies idea. On occasion sacrifice a little fish to keep the big ones from getting hooked.
Also, I couldn't help noticing, during c-spans fashion minute, that under the fedora and trench coat Abramof has really gained some weight. Looks like he might have over-eaten on holiday and put on about 65# of tac armor. I wonder what he knows that would make him do that.
http://www.majorityreportradio.com/weblog/PH2006010300786.php
-X

[IkeWarnedUs]

33. my thoughts on this

For me, it was the "non-paper trail" of e-mails and blackberry's that made me wonder.

I think selling out members of Congress was always his get-out-of-jail-free card. Abramoff may "own" a good chunk of Congress, but just like the quirky objects on Antiques Roadshow, they only have value if you can find someone who wants to buy what you have to sell and you can prove their authenticity. We've heard how little he thought of the Indians he stole from. I doubt his opinion of the Congress Critters he bought is much better.

Having said that, I think you may be on to something Matcom. In trying to understand more about Abramoff's background and history I came across this in an article in Mother Jones:

---------------
To Marshall Wittmann, a former Christian conservative who now works for the moderate Democratic Leadership Council, the story of Jack Abramoff is the story of a generation. "It's a classic tale of intending to do good -- and doing very well," he says. "The pledge of all these Reagan revolutionaries was to overturn the iron triangle of Congress, the special interests, and the lobbyists.
---------------

Now I'm not so sure if the non-paper trail was to secure his ace-in-the-hole or to accomplish his vision of taking down Congress, special interests and lobbyists. The thing is, if this was a plot to take down Congress, shouldn't he have involved the Democrats more?

The neocons march to American Empire has made some people very wealthy. I can see where Abramoff would have been very useful to the cabal and they would have been fine with helping him build his wealth as long as their interests didn't collide. And I'm convinced (from non-related research) that they've long used blackmail to control people along the way. Abramoff's past has enough links to PNAC to make you go hmmmmm, but he has more of a Pat-Robertson'ish ideology - steeped in religion and greed.

So at this point I think Abramoff took the plea deal because a) he always planned to use his get-out-of-jail-free card if he got caught, b) his long held religious convictions call for him to purge his conscience and c) he can turn this around in his mind that he will be a hero if he can take down the special interest/lobbyists system. I don't think the fall was planned, but I think he made these contingency plans in case it happened.

One more thing. I think Abramoff is just another of the special interest groups the neocons latched onto to gain power. The greedy religious ideolog. And maybe the plea deal is similar to the Harriet Miers nomination. Bush figured he was so tight with the religious right that they would fall into place behind Miers. He didn't realize how vicious they could be if they didn't get their way. They didn't just not support Miers, they attacked her and attacked Bush's appointment making ability. They may have been expecting (or at least hoping for) loyalty like they saw in G. Gordon Liddy or Oliver North, but they're not gonna get it from these allies. Makes me hope that if someone - another honest prosecuter or honest Congressional inquiry - leans hard enough on some of the other special interest groups the neocons own they may sing too. Groups like the oil company execs that lied before Congress or companies like Blackwater that are breaking US and international laws in Afghanistan and Iraq. I bet they would.


Link to the Mother Jones article: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/09/abramoff.html
Very interesting piece.

[Catherine Vincent]

34. what type of prison will REPUBLICAN lobbyist Abramoff

be sent to? Will it be a federal prison or a real prison? Just wondering.

[H2O Man]

35. Federal.

The majority of federal prisons are not pleasant places. He is not going to be going away on a fantasy island vacation. Being incarcerated is not going to be easy for him.

[Catherine Vincent]

37. Thanks.

I'm sure it won't be easy for him. He's probably depressed.

[dusmcj]

36. speculation only

1. distract from the administration's rodgering of the public with domestic surveillance and use of the Constitution in the West Wing's toilet paper holders, along with corruption, nepotism, profiteering and the whole dreary laundry list we here can recite in toto.
2. take down some prominent Democrats who fail to successfully wash their hands of Jerusalem Jack
3. cleanse the pond of the bohonk wing of the GOP, including maybe even as powerful as Delay, and return control to the Beltway apparatchiks of the likes of Big Dick.
4. generally wag the dog, while Doober and co. escape through the servants' entrance. they'll be smirking all the way to their lobbying jobs
5. level the playing field for the midterm elections - "they're ALL dirty, see". Make public disgust at government corruption a bipartisan affair, instead of letting it land squarely on the GOP where it belongs. The chickenshits need to be able to point at a few Democrat unfortunates and crow "see, they're as corrupt as we are, so vote for us". Or maybe we've earned ourselves another round of socially engineered (gotta stay Under Control and Connected now) pseudopopulist "trow da bums out" a la 1994.

I think there are not unreasonable suspicions about that Jerusalem Jack is falling on his sword at the command of the fascist leadership, who are anticipating benefits that outweigh the loss of him and his unfortunate clients. Whether he's doing it willingly or not doesn't actually matter; patsy or martyr, there's hay to be made here.