I weep for this nation - many people have no idea how BAD it really is

[debbierlus]

I saw a picture in the paper the other day. It literally made me cry. It was a group of worker's standing in a circle and praying that their jobs wouldn't be exported.

I deal in antiques and I drive quite a bit on my way to auctions and shows. One of the saddest things I see in my travels are the long stretches of empty factories. Broken down and surrounded by destitute housing stock and people. Or, the back roads of mobile homes and shacks of the poverty stricken (and I live in 'wealthy' New England)! I read a ad in the newspaper today - loans for heating oil. Going into debt to furnish heat! I see it all in my work. I pick the bottom end of expensive auctions and the wealth is vulgar. 100,000 dollars for a lamp! I go to the old fashioned 'country auctions starting at a buck a boxful' and people can't afford dental care. I prefer the buck a boxful auctions myself.

There is not a gap between the rich & poor in this country. It is a huge chasm. The rich are literally robbing the poor. I can't believe how many people I know who have turned to credit cards to bridge expenses and now they are in hock up to their eyeballs. The reality of the loan shark bill (did I loan shark bill, I mean 'bankruptcy' bill) is really starting to hit. The credit card rates are skying and people have no recourse. They can change their terms for any reason at any time. What a bunch of FUCKERS.

Human beings have been reduced to the lowest common denominator. Instead of placing human beings (and all life) above profit and bottom-line, we do just the opposite. And, it is really starting to show.

[revree]

1. So well said...

People don't realize how bad it is because people are afraid to venture outside of their own communities, and they are in denial about their own financial difficulties...I see this all the time. The poor don't exist, because they don't see them, yet they themselves are about to become the new working poor...

Ignorance and denial are destroying our country. When we consent to letting our government destroy us, we are just as guilty as they are.

[debbierlus]

2. But, you don't need to venture out of your community

Unless you live in a very wealthy area, most towns have their poverty stricken sections. And, most people are struggling themselves...But, you are right. People will be slapped in the face with reality when they become the working poor.

[Delphinus]

19. My boss doesn't see it.

He makes a very comfortable package for living and when I tried to talk to him about the shape of things in my life and in others' around the area, he cannot comprehend.

[The Doctor.]

28. He will.

Let him know what's going to happen.
Tell him that this administration is hollowing the country out fromthe inside and it's just a matter of time.

Then, after the Shit hits the fan, he'll listen.

[bobbieinok]

57. author of the book Strapped was on DRehm's show

she talked about the problems people were having....many callers discussed their situations

DRehm kept trying to find some local resource who could help a woman without health insurance and 3 children....Rehm seemed unable to comprehend that many people do in fact have no where to turn

it was sort of sickening to realize how little DRehm seemed to understand of what many people now face

see a discussion of the book at

http://www.demos.org/pub663.cfm

[Selatius]

3. Well, this is the country you know

We prize free-enterprise, but nobody likes to talk about what happens when you profit off somebody else's misery and misfortune. It doesn't matter if you manufacture bombs or credit cards. It's all about the money.

We're shown images of what it's like to drive beautiful Cadillac Escalade SUVs and have mansions with giant swimming pools. They show us "the good life" to try and encourage us to live like they do, but it's just a trap to get us to buy things we don't need and blow our money on them. What do we get? A mountain of credit card debt, and the people you try to emulate end up owning you.

[debbierlus]

6. It is about viewing people in a cost/benefit ratio

And, putting share holders interests above the workers. I don't understand this - the workers are JUST as important as the investors. But, they are treated like dirt. Workers' are viewed as a business expense. Pay the least, take as much as they can. Then, if they don't like it, move it somewhere they can pay slave wages.

Modern day slavery on a global scale.

[Selatius]

11. Whatever makes money, I guess

That seems to be the guiding notion nowadays. Just look at Wal-Mart, the largest retailer in the world. The Walton family has several billionaires now. We're told this is what we should emulate.

[chat_noir]

53. Walton billionaries

Their wealth is inherited, not earned.

[The2ndWheel]

20. "I don't understand this"

Now you know why you're not a billionaire, and knowing is half the battle.

[leftofthedial]

4. giving corporations an ally like the bush gang

is like painting a target on WHittington's face

[PassingFair]

5. Good, honest, post, Debbie.

Here in Michigan, everyone believes that only our state is in the crapper.
I think this is part of their strategy.

I KNOW that the economy is crummy all over.

Maybe Texas is making out, because of Halliburton et. al......
even with the profit to be had in defense industries, we are
struggling for breath (and heat) in my state.

[debbierlus]

7. Wave out from my hubby - a Grand Rapids boy

I have never been, but he has told me about Michigan as the old automobile and furniture capitol. Quite a place in its hey-day!

[PassingFair]

42. I don't think I need to tell you about the state of the furniture industry

http://www.usajobs.org/viewarticle.jsp?articleuid=11123449647151027493607

:puke:

:cry:

[melody]

8. excellent post

The bankruptcy bill was rushed through just as our economy was collapsing, along with all these corporate-loving legislation/nominees.

I suspect some of the mobile home people living close to the edge will have an easier time, though, than the people in McMansions. My family lives a consciously frugal lifestyle. We can withstand a lot of turbulence richer people cannot.

[debbierlus]

17. Hardship makes for a tougher stock

And, definitely more empathetic people.

[Lindacooks]

66. Unfortunately, the people who need empathy the most

are usually the ones who have never felt hardship.

[laylah]

24. I will be 55

July 1. I have been working since I was 14, have had credit since I was 17. My credit rating has ALWAYS been very important to me. I was raised you pay what you owe, period. Well, on Friday, with a credit rating of 789, I had to declare bankruptcy. Once my stipend from the ex ended in September, things started falling apart. I started using the credit cards, then I lost my job. I am not a happy camper and feel dirty for even having to do this; however, I have no choice, being part of this "stable" economy and a divorce statistic.

The powers that be don't give a rat's butt about any of us but themselves. They will give themselves raises as people die from no medical coverage, children starve, old people die from lack of meds, on, and on, and on.

I weep for my country.

Jenn

[debbierlus]

30. You have NO reason to feel ashamed!

Most people who declare bankruptcy are victims of circumstances such as you described.

Medical bills.

Divorce.

Death.

95%. The credit card companies play off the myth that it is people who go out & party with credit cards that declare bankuptcy. They use it to justify their mean-spirited policies, and have a front for advocating laws like the 'loan shark bill - officially known as the bankruptcy bill'.

I hope things go well for you now.

[laylah]

35. Thank you

Debbie :hug: Intellectually I know I have no reason for shame. It is just that my FAMILY VALUES (HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO FREEPER FREAKS) are/were you pay what you owe, no exceptions.

Thanks for your support. I do have a job interview with a child abuse organization on March 1. I am first and foremost, a children's advocate and I would shine at this job. Send white light and good thoughts my way.

Jenn

[debbierlus]

36. Lots of positive thoughts and energy - coming your way!

:hi:

Good luck with the interview! That sounds like a tough but really rewarding job!

[Occulus]

63. I used to look at it that way

"You pay what you owe", I mean. Then, I realized that the "contract" I have with the CC is nothing of the kind.

Not when they can change the terms whenever they want. That's not a contract. Contracts are set. These aren't.

Don't feel bad and don't get angry. Find a way to get even instead. :hug:

[melody]

34. THEY are the ones to be ashamed

Of forcing good, hard-working, responsible people like you into this situation while candyass silver spoon children like George Bush prosper.

[Daphne08]

64. I'm so sorry that this has happened to you, but you must

remember, in this day and time, it could happen to anyone.

I'm your age so I understand completely the way you feel. We were raised with the belief that if one worked hard and played by the rules, one would reap his/her reward at retirement.

Unfortunately, I think we've been royally screwed. :cry:

[raccoon]

9. I agree. I've been thinking this for a while, when I noticed that

there seem to be more and more thrift stores. And car title loan businesses. And, as you said, closed factories.

IME and my observation, it is VERY difficult to get a "good" job (one that pays halfway decent pay and has benefits) without "knowing somebody." Except in a very few fields. Heck, lots of time it seems you have to "know somebody" even to get a crappy job.

I've noticed, among people I know, that if they are retired or else haven't had to look for a job in a long time, they have no idea how bad it is.

Do you hear a giant flushing sound in the background?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. More payday loan places, too

Now there's a bunch of vultures for you.

More ads on TV for home equity loans, and a couple of days ago, I heard an ad for "money-saving interest-only mortgages."

How long can this go on?

I'm so glad that I'm self-employed and rely on Japanese and European clients for most of my income.

[raccoon]

52. Yes, more of those in my neck of the woods, too. nt

[f-bush]

10. God I feel the same way...

...I had to file for bankruptcy due to 193,000 in medical bills. I filed quite a few times in order to stave off the creditors and keep getting treatment. I was charged with abuse of the US Bankruptcy process and jailed for 13 months because of it. These money people don't give a fuck about anything or anybody but themselves!

[debbierlus]

13. I am so incredibly sorry you went through that!

[f-bush]

21. Thanks..

I had cancer twice and the second time it wasn't insured. I feel that I am stronger because of all that I went through. I was a serious liberal before all this happened and I guess now I am radicalized.!!!

[debbierlus]

23. I hope you are okay now.

And, the more 'radicals' - the better. In this day & age - all that means is you face the truth!

[f-bush]

27. Yeah, I'm fine..thanks-

part of the problem I truly think is that I took on a conservative congressman from the left in the democratic primary (he was dem in name only) and got 40% of the party vote that year. Challanged his authority big time, so when this happened the established saw a way to hit me when I was down!

[deutsey]

12. Isn't it time for someone and some political party to make the case

for how bad it currently is and how good it can be under different leadership?

:shrug:

[debbierlus]

14. You would think!

[deutsey]

16. Maybe I should hire myself out as a consultant...

I mean, this ain't brain surgery or nuthin'.

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[The2ndWheel]

18. If you think

any leadership that could gain power would do anything fundamentally different, it's time to read that Zappa quote again.

[debbierlus]

25. It is not about leadership attaining power

It is about human beings gaining perspective!

[The2ndWheel]

29. Things are getting bigger

and everything is happening quicker. There is no time for perspective anymore.

[deutsey]

47. And yet Zappa was a huge influence on the Velvet Revolution

Havel wanted to make him culture ambassador or something because Zappa was such an important influence on him as a dissident. (Orrin Hatch, I think, threatened to withold aid if Havel gave Zappa the post).

Also, I met Zappa once in the mid-'80s and we talked for about a half hour or so about, among other things, recent mid-term elections. He despised Reagan and the GOP and was cynical about the Democrats, yet he still wanted to see the Dems gain/maintain seats and, above all else, stand for something.

[Fredda Weinberg]

15. "Let them eat cake"

I know Marie Antoinette never actually said those words, but it's an old story - Karl Marx wrote literally volumes on the subject ... we apparently will never learn.

[EricWhitaker]

22. Exactly

I have largely given up on the intellect of the collective body of the United States populace.

In a thousand years I never would have imagined seeing the things I've seen perpertrated in this Country the last 6 years.

People walk around me all sunshiny and happygolucky and I wonder to myself "what the fuck are you so happy about, do you even know what the f*ck is going on."

[EricWhitaker]

26. My question is

At what point do you say "F*ck everything". Excuse my french.

[debbierlus]

32. I say it periodically - then come back

Too much to take full out, all the time.

[Fredda Weinberg]

37. My father never let me forget how civilized the Germans are

And it was their fear of revolutionaries that brought Hitler to power - not the hatred of minorities. It can happen here.

[debbierlus]

39. It IS happening here.

[Fredda Weinberg]

40. I quote my brother - The Internet could be our salvation e/m

[newswolf56]

31. Once again the relevance of Marx, greater now than ever before:

especially the historical truth of class struggle, which explains everything that is being done to us -- outsourcing, downsizing, pension-looting, wage-reduction, destruction of all social services, wildly inflated housing prices, impossibly expensive health care, skyrocketing fuel and transport costs, re-imposition of indentured servitude via bankruptcy reform, etc. ad nauseum -- and tells us precisely why it is being done: concentration of wealth.

Thus too what another writer -- a DU poster at that -- has already labeled "the harvesting of the American middle class."

"As long as capitalism remains what it is, surplus capital will never be used for the purpose of raising the standard of living of the masses in a given country, for this would mean a decline in profits for the capitalists; it will be used for the purpose of increasing those profits by exporting capital abroad to backward countries. In these backward countries profits are unusually high, for capital is scarce, the price of land is relatively low, wages are low, raw materials are cheap."(V.I. Lenin, "Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism," 1916, page 63. Reprinted as part of Ten Classics of Marxism, International Publishers, New York: 1939.)

The only true economic alternative ever to arise in the United States was the New Deal. But because the New Deal arose from Marxist analysis applied in the context of constitutional democracy rather than violent revolution -- acknowledgment of class struggle, acknowledgment also of both the intrinsic evil of capitalism and its necessity at this (sad) stage of human development, therefore acknowledgment too of the dire necessity the state protect the working class (all of us) from the savage greed of the capitalists -- even the most progressive politicians are typically too craven to call for the New Deal's return. All save one: John Edwards, who has done just that.

Resurrection of the New Deal is literally the only thing that can save us -- and save our liberty as well. The ONLY thing that can save us: and only Edwards has dared say it.

[debbierlus]

33. Edwards is a good guy, indeed!

[lucca]

38. Thank you Debbierlus for your

very insightful post.


Thomas Jefferson:
The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.

[Ilsa]

41. There is all kinds of "creep" meeting the people in the middle and

at the bottom.

There is health insurance creep - the premiums and copays and deductibles keep creeping up, but we all tell each ohter, "I'm just I still have health insurance." Of course, health care costs keep rising like crazy.

There is the creep in the cost of groceries and goods, due mostly to the higher costs of distribution due to higher oil costs.

I keep hearing the Alternative Minimum Tax is going to creep up on us. God, I hope not. I can't afford to pay rather than receive a refund this year.

My property keeps going up in appraised value. I can't afford anything new, and the city/county keeps adjusting it all upwards to collect more in taxes.

Cost of college. Niece can't afford it anymore. She has to drop out and work. Didn't meet any criteria for financial aid when her husband was making $14 an hour, but it isn't enough to make tuition and fees. She'd have to have a baby to afford college.

[The Flaming Red Head]

51. And that fucking self employment tax

When I needed disability I couldn't get it and now that I am back working (as a home health nurse) despite my injuries ( old and new) with almost every disk in my back out and I have to pay for health care for everyone else, even when I can't afford to pay for any insurance for myself. I worked just enough to fuck myself out of my EIC, but not enough to afford a decent standard of living and too much for food stamps, but not really enough to buy groceries. (thank gawd for mickiedees and wendy's dollar menu or we wouldn't eat half the time. I mean that sarcastically) I fit in every crack and crevice and hole in the safety net.

[Wordie]

43. A sensitive, caring post. I wish there were more like you, debbierlus. K&R

[Kablooie]

44. The international job market isn't going to go away...

but it is clearly an issue that affects the lives of millions of Americans and should
be a major discussion topic in Washington. But of course millions of Americans don't
carry nearly as much influence as one of Bush's frat buddies.

[specimenfred1984]

45. I Can't Help But Think of the Disparities in my Neighborhood

in the N. Va area. Everyday, I drive by the 1000s, yes 1000s of new homes in my county where the prices are in the $550,000 to $800,000 range. Incomes have absolutely NOT kept up with these prices, the only way people get into these homes is with huge, speculative mortgages.

Half of these people will simply not be able to afford these homes for many of the reasons listed in this thread. I'm also appalled by the blatent pompousness of these homes. For instance, there's a new high school a few miles from my house with $700,000+ homes being built right in front of it, less than 100 yards away. Two teachers at the high school, each earning $40G a year, couldn't afford these places or any of the houses in the entire area.

Banks are the problem, just like they were prior to President Roosevelt. People will not realize this for a multitude of reasons like greed and propaganda and will create another great depression in a short period of time, my guess is 2 years max. Then, as history repeats itself, Americans will look at themselves and ask "how did we let this happen"?

The answer is "you greedy suckers and bigots chose to believe the repukes yet again". That still won't help any of us at all, except to make us feel better for another generation perhaps, until it's finally realized that the only way anything will ever change is to put these criminals in jail for life.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. My disgust with banks led me to join a credit union

Same range of services, same deposit insurance, but with a localized, personal touch. I'm glad I did it, even though there's no branch in my neighborhood.

[Tsiyu]

46. It's astonishing: the Corporate Executive mindset.

I see people betray every moral code and commandment trying to claw their way to the top of the Corporate Food Chain.

At the bottom, I see people literally collapsing where they work, going to the hospital never to see the sun again. They worked themselves to death, literally. And worked their asses off, but they were never paid a living wage. No one cared if they were exploited or not.

Meanwhile, at the top, managers brag about how little work they do, all the while moaning that "people lie when they say they'll work harder for just a dollar more an hour."

I think these guys believe that they are the only humans who need money. The disconnect in these people's minds between cause and effect is stunning and remarkable given that these are otherwise intelligent, educated people. But their callous disregard for the suffering of those around them is predictable and chilling.

It's time to admit that we have reached the end of this game. We have reduced people to "labor" or "consumer" and we've devised all sorts of methods and programs to manipulate and make the most $$ off of labor and consumer, but we've viewed these human resources as one might view cattle (think Tasers) or fish (think Katrina) or bird dogs (think our soldiers)or anything except as humans.

It's time to admit to ourselves that a very small segment of our society controls most of our resources. And that can change when we become producers rather than consumers, when we save rather than spend.

Local is where it's at. Bartering, doing without the iPods, etc,...growing your own food, joining co-ops, buying from local vendors and growers. Cancel the cable and go outside and meet people or build something with the kids.

A lecture, I know, but somebody needs the nagging somewhere and I'll start with me...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. You're right about the executive mindset

I sure saw it while working temp during the Reagan Recession: take long lunch hours and complain about how you're underpaid and you're workers are overpaid.

[Lindsay]

50. Thanks for an excellent thread.

I suspect that one of the reasons for all the happy-talk economic news from the government is to make those of us who are not doing so well feel isolated, like we're the only ones so it must be our own fault. (And lots of them really believe that - born on third base and think they hit a triple.)

Heck, I felt isolated before I got on the computer to look up some things about Karl Rove and discovered a whole community here who saw things more or less as I do.

I think it's important for us to share the truth as we know it and see it with our own eyes. That's how populist movements get started...the voices of the people speaking up for each other.

[raccoon]

55. Right on. nt

[Martin Eden]

54. the "Ownership Society"

The "ownership society" Bush loves to tout is an illusion -- unless you're among the small percentage of Americans with stock portfolios paying dividends on the outsourcing of jobs the rest of us depend on.

[file83]

58. That means the Rich want to OWN the poor. n/t

[foreverdem]

60. You mean the Society of the Owners n/t

[degreesofgray]

56. Every day on my way to work I drive through areas

that look like they've been bombed. My parents have church friends who tell them that many of the poor simply don't want to work, that they'd rather take handouts. I guess it must be so they can keep up their lavish lifestyle, what with living in shacks with leaky, falling in roofs, chronic unemployment, and lack of basic preventive health care.

[samhsarah]

59. I know this sounds cold-hearted, but...

you get what you vote for. That's the bottom line. I KNOW about Diebold, but if an overwhelming majority of people voted one way, they couldn't fix the vote. But they continue to do so and people just don't care. If they think praying for their jobs is going to fix the problem, instead of rising to the occasion and throwing these bastards out of our government, then, what can I say? I know this situation in our country has just as much of an effect on me and my family, so I am not trying to say I don't care, it's just that getting the right thing done and getting these repukes out of office shouldn't be such an uphill battle. But it is. And it is because middle class people that are praying for their jobs right now will still go out and vote Republican.

[foreverdem]

61. It's so disheartening

Over the weekend, my husband and I took a trip to West Virginia. We went by train. It was so disheartening to see all the closed up factories, the closed up stores, the way people are forced to live. The train even went through my hometown, which I have not seen in a few years and I could not believe all the stores and businesses that had closed. Businesses that had been there for years. Many of my friends, as well as my husband, who have been out of work for some time have even given up looking, it's so tough and disheartening out there. And those of us lucky enough to have jobs have to put up with whatever crap the corp wants to dish out, we need the money and if we're lucky, the benefits. It just seems like it's an uphill walk that just never ends.

I miss my country.

[Toucano]

62. No weeping here.

They had a chance.

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. People who can afford to buy one of these condos don't need a tax cut

www.LasVegasHighRiseProjects.com/LasRamblas.http The Las Ramblas is a joint venture with Cindy Crawford's husband and George Clooney along with international developers worldwide. What happens when peak oil becomes a harsh reality? The rich don't give it a second thought. Seems the RICH AND FAMOUS are flocking to snap up these expensive condos in Vegas which cost in the neighborhood of $1.5 mil. Hulk Hogan bought the Penthouse condo in the new Palms Place for 4 mil. :wow: Guess he really needs his tax cuts. :sarcasm: