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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:13 PM
Original message
Cross-post: Beyond the Political Event Horizon
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 10:56 PM by arendt
Originally posted in GD-politics.

Moderator - can I move the "greatest" votes of the two threads?

Flame suit on
Nomex gloves on
Fire extinguisher system armed
Incoming artillery radar activated
Prepare for ejection from DU, as a non-democrat (When you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose" - J. Joplin)

---------------
Beyond the Political Event Horizon
by arendt

"In the early years of their power, the Nazis let loose an avalanche of laws and decrees, but they
never bothered to abolish officially the Weimar constitution...it turned out that the Nazis showed no
concern whatsoever about their own legislation...finally the 'purpose and the scope of the secret state
police' as well as other state or party institutions created by the Nazis could 'in no manner be covered
by the laws and regulations issued for them'. In practice, this permanent state of lawlessness found
expression in the fact that 'a number of valid regulations (were) no longer made public.'

"...the (Soviet) constitution of 1936 played exactly the same role the Weimar constitution played under the
Nazi regime: it was completely disregarded but never abolished; the only difference was that Stalin could
afford one more absurdity...all those who (at Stalin's orders) had drafted the never-repudiated constitution
were executed as traitors."

"Technically speaking, the movement within the apparatus of totalitarian domination derives its mobility
from the fact that the leadership constantly shifts the actual center of power, often to other organizations,
but without dissolving or even publicly exposing the groups that have thus been deprived of their power...
The point is that none of the organs of power was ever deprived of its right to pretend that it embodied
the will of the Leader. But not only was the the will of the leader so unstable that compared with it the
whims of Oriental despots are a shining example of steadfastness; the consistent and ever-changing
division between real secret authority and ostensible open representation made the actual seat of
power a mystery by definition, and this to such an extent that the members of the ruling clique themselves
could never be absolutely sure of their own position in the secret power hierarchy."


- Hannah Arendt, "The Origins of Totalitarianism"


With the sad charade of the confirmation hearings of Sam Elite-o, the U.S. has gone past the Political
Event Horizon. As readers of science or sci-fi might know, the event horizon is an imaginary line in space
around a black hole. Once an object crosses this invisible boundary, it is impossible to ever escape from
the gravitational pull of the black hole. The object will eventually be pulled down into the black hole,
where it will be crushed to sub-atomic particles. Not even the light of its destruction can cross the event
horizon. Physicists calculate that the change in gravity per unit distance as you are drawn deeper into the
black hole eventually becomes so strong that objects are stretched as if they were on a rack until they break.

The lengthy introductory quote, from my nom de plume's master work, indicates the mechanism of political
destruction that will be applied to the normal political matter of our laws as they are pulverized. Existing
laws will be ignored, so will new ones. The law becomes whatever the Leader says it is. The people
having so much fun today pretending to run the government will soon be caught up in show trials, purges,
and mere spite. All we can be sure of is that the level of secret police power will grow stronger and stronger
until our communities and societies are atomized to that state of "superfluousness" which Ms. Arendt so
strongly identifies as the origin of all modern mass movements.

Setting aside for the moment the finality of crossing the event horizon, it is now time to admit that the
traditional two-party system has failed. We are at a juncture much like 1860, when four contending parties,
two of Northern and two of Souther origins competed in a free for all. Except that today, we don't have
four parties, we have one party: the GOP extremists and their punching bag opponents, the Democrats,
with one hand tied behind their back by corporate donations.

In spite of a torrent of unprecedented calls to get out of Iraq from current and former ambassadors, former
Reagan and Bush officials like NSA General Odom, and conservative theorists like Francis "End of History"
Fukuyama, both party leaderships have announced their intention to "stay the course" in Iraq. Despite massive
outcries over the trampling of our civil rights, despite the administration's stonewalling of its own Supreme Court
on the issue of habeus corpus, the leadership of neither party is willing to stand up and say that the ever more
intrusive (while ever less productive) intrusion of the boondoggle Department of Homeland Security is beyond the
pale of democracy.

But plenty of individual Congressmen and civil servants have stood up on one issue or another from one
party or another. Public opinion polls show that 52% of Americans say Bush should be impeached if
he lied about NSA wiretapping and/or WMDs in Iraq. And the evidence on both those subjects is getting
to the public, despite the frantic damage control efforts of the corporate media. Bush's approval rating has
been stuck at 40% for months. Every day, more and more GOP voters give up on idiocy like handing our
ports to Al Quida supporters, deputizing school bus drivers to look for terrorists, and providing body armor
to police dogs in Ohio while our soldiers go without it in Iraq.

Therefore, I have a modest proposal to make:

There should be a new political party formed, call it the Bring Back the Constitution (BBC) Party or just
the Constitution Party. The conditions for joining this party are simple and, in the current scheme of things
non-partisan. In a sane country, they should be motherhood and apple pie. But we are no longer a sane
country.

All U.S. government officials and military members swear an oath to Preserve, Protect, and Defend the U.S. Constitution
from all enemies, foreign and domestic. They do not swear an oath to defend a "unitary executive", a commander-
in-chief, or the Bible. Sadly, many officials and members by their actions and/or by their acquiesence have violated
their oaths.

The sole purpose of the party is to get control of the government, throw out every single supporter of the current
dismemberment of the Constitution, and restore the rule of Constitutional law to America. After that, it should
get out of the way as fast as possible. Unfortunately, the fumigation of our government will probably require the
kind of "Test Act" loyalty oath for officials, familiar to students of English Parliamentary history. Nevertheless, that
is not such a bad precedent to follow in times of incipient Religious War. Furthermore, the loyalty oath would merely
require adherence to, and avoidance of weasel-wording on, the fundamental points of the U. S. Constitution stated
in the Constitution Party's platform - plus a few corrective actions designed to prevent the whole sorry mess from
happening all over again in a few years.

Without further ado, here is my first cut at a program:

1. The immediate restoration of habeus corpus, and its application to all places on earth where the U.S. government
and its military currently hold control. It can be military habeus corpus, but it has to be habeus corpus. The public disclosure
of both the rules for putting someone on a "no-fly list" and a procedure for appealing such a secret designation. It is against
800 years of common and statute law in the Anglo Saxon world to suspend habeus corpus (much less to make secret
laws) without end date to defend against a stateless, faceless tactic - especially when such suspensions are applied selectively,
and not to people making threats against domestic opponents of the current administration.

2. The immediate renunciation of the doctrine of pre-emptive warfare, which is violation of the Geneva Convention,
to which we are a signatory, and the prosecution of those officials found to have facilitated this violation and the
violation of its convention on torture. As a treaty, this convention is United States Law, and we are bound by it. If we are
to be bound by international agreements like the WTO, which is also run from Switzerland, then we must be bound
by the Geneva Convention.

3. The immediate restoration of the Constitutional Separation of Powers.

....A. There is no such thing as a "unitary executive" within U.S. Constitutional history. It is but a euphemism for
....dictatorship. It is an abomination. Signing statements shall be expressly banned by Constitutional Amendment.

....B. The Supreme Court shall be reprimanded for declaring Bush to be President in a sui generis decision that
....was a blatant violation of both States Rights and the Separation of Powers.

....C. Provision shall be made in both houses of Congress to prevent bills and information from being withheld from
....the minority party or presented in such a manner as to effectively withhold them.

....D. The rules on holding votes open shall be rigidly enforced, and bribery and other arm-twisting
....shall be kept off the floor of Congress.

4. The immediate restoration of the Separation of Church and State, as mandated by the First Amendment and
testified to by the writings of our founding fathers and subsequent court decisions. If we are forced to abide by
the fiction that corporations are people (inserted in a decision by a court reporter rather than decided by the
Court) then we very well must abide by the court decisions beginning two hundred years ago drawing a bright
line between Church and State. So-called faith-based initiatives of fungible cash grants, and the operation of
government programs in explicit violation of civil rights laws, violate that separation and must be ended.

Beyond that restoration of separation within the government, the de facto violation of that separation and the tacit
condoning of that violation by the un-Constitutional regime (e.g., voter guides, gathering of church attendance lists) has
demonstrated that there is no fair way to make some religious activities "privileged" (i.e., tax exempt) under the law.
Therefore, we shall undertake to adopt the European approach of treating churches' financial and employment
transactions as any other business - that is, treating them equally under the business laws of the land.

5. The nationalization of electronic voting machine companies, and the conversion of all such electronic voting
to open source software with paper trails and recount information provided. It has been demonstrated repeatedly
and publicly, by major political and technical figures, that the existing systems are so flawed that they seem to have
been designed to be hacked. Voting is simply too important to be left to politically-involved and highly ideological
private control.

6. The immediate and full funding of national elections by the government and the complete ending of the corrupt
system of legalized bribery known as "campaign finance"
. The provision of free TV, radio, and internet airtime in
a fair and proportional manner to all significant political parties, along the lines of countries such as the Netherlands.

7. The rollback of weakening of ownership caps on media outlets, the de-conglomeration of the media, and the
immediate review of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act
and other violations of the right of first sale and the right
to own, rather than rent, personal copies of media. The restoration of some version of the Fairness Act, and post facto
fining of explicit agitation to violence, such as Pat Robertson's call for assassination of foreign leaders and
Ann Coulter's call to "kill the liberals". We can't stop codewords, but we can stop outright verbal assault.

8. The disclosure of significant (perhaps, conglomerated or otherwise protected) information on the $30 Billion
black budget
of the armed forces and intelligence agencies. The U.S. taxpayer is paying blindly for services
that increasingly are being turned against the U.S. taxpayer. We have a right to information about the covert
actions we are funding, since we as individual soldiers and individual citizens will be liable to the consequences
and retaliations for these actions. Increasingly, we see dedicated career civil servants and ranking military
lawyers blowing the whistle on out of control intelligence. We are deeply concerned and demand more transparency.

----

Any sitting politician who cannot agree to these propositions, which, at best, roll back the situation to about where
it stood in 1990, should be vigorously opposed by the Constitution Party. Any politician, Republican, Democrat,
Green, or Libertarian, who can agree to this declaration as the platform to implement should join the Constitution
Party in a government of national rededication to our founding principles.

We should fund this party on the internet, ala the Dean Campaign, turning down corporate donations, and running
solely on personal contributions of less than $1,000.

Over to you, DU.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fwd "bleever": I have a question so as to better understand this post

In the first part, you suggest we've crossed the event horizon and that the disintegration of American democracy is unavoidable. Correct? This seems to suggest that the program you delineate is doomed.

Finding both your program and your initial allegory to be very well-stated, I would appreciate more of your thoughts on how these two views co-exist (and not because they can't; but because they do).

Thanks.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, it is, in the end, only an analogy.
I have fooled around with the allegory of black holes, both in economics and in politics.

But, since both are fields of human endeavor, and not cast in stone laws of the physical
universe, it is possible to "play creator" by changing the fundamental laws a nation by
direct fiat. Just like Bush is doing, only we have the whole history of America on our side.

In a democracy, the people are entitled to set the rules. My post says that, so long as we
accept the current rules (two party system, acquiesence to the deconstruction of the
Constitution), we will wind up pulverized by a totalitarian system.

My counterproposal is sort of like the proposal to simply have the electorate play god and
demand that the black hole be vaporized.

Bottom line: its only an analogy. And we're only screwed if we accept that we must stay
within the old two party system.

We have many highly motivating 20th century examples of religious/ideological fanaticism
and its effects: the Communists, the Nazis, Pol Pot, Shining Path, Yugoslavia.

America has a wonderful history. America has some true conservatives. We have to break
out of this Red/Blue, Dem/GOP box. In that sense, I applaud Howard Dean's 50 state campaign.
But the Democratic Party has too much baggage (unless we can expropriate the bulk of it,
and re-brand it as the Constitution Party - and there are historical precedents, such as
"New Labor" in the UK).

Hope that helps.

I'm just winging it here, although I am quite in earnest about some effort along these lines.
I want to move past the DNC/DLC feud - it is draining us.

arendt


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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Or (if I understand you), we can continue to play in the GOP's casino,
or we can wake the hell up throw over the money-changers' table in the temple, and be unafraid to say out loud that democracy isn't supposed to be a casino, and that this is a sham, and that it is time for Democracy to move back into the houses of government that have been taken over by bloated merchants who see the government as another market to dominate.

Play within the so-called rules, or have the guts to stand up and remind everyone what the real rules are here.


:thumbsup:
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Hey, nice Christian analogy!
Yeah, don't hear too much about those money-changers from the neo-Christian
crowd.

The cleanup of campaign finance is but one strongly moralistic plank of what
I perceive to be a moral agenda.

The other moral planks are to get goverment to stop giving my tax dollars to other
religions, to obey the laws it has signed, including the Geneva Conventions,
to stop bribery on the floor of Congress.

I want the morality to flow from the secular goals, so that people can see that
there can be morality in government without dragging in religion.

arendt
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. "I want the morality to flow from the secular goals..."
Is this not exactly the fundamental genius of the U.S. Constitution?

Morality based on the rights of individuals (self-evident!) to seek life, liberty, and happiness.

Rights that are inalienable. Without regard (purposely so) to any particular faith or religion.



Are they saying these rights can, in fact, be "alienated"? That they aren't really self-evident?


Do they have doubts about standing up for what America was founded on?


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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Excellent thinking. Maybe we need to run lectures and pass out...
free copies of the Constitution.

Maybe we need our own annotated Constitution - you know the
secular version of a Scofield Reference Bible. The Fundies understand
that kind of "guidance". ---sorry, sarcasm off---

But, some kind of FAQ for the Constitution. Must be a good one on a
website somewhere. Best if the website is really, really conservative.

Anyone got any candidates?

arendt
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. DU's understandinglife's pamphlet on the Constitution and
the Declaration of Independence, revisited in the context of Katrina and the Iraq War, can be found here:

http://missionnotaccomplished.us/WTPv17n.pdf


He incorporated input from numerous DUers.



The idea of making the Constitution common knowledge again is radical and powerful.


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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. 3 MBs would take 45 minutes on my dialup. I do it from work in the AM n/t
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Geez, you make it sound like missionary work among cannibals...
and you may have a point there.

Since when is knowledge of the constitution "radical and powerful"?

So sad.

arendt

Got to get some sleep. Nite.
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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. People OWN the state... not the other way around

This should be teached in class!!
PEOPLE OWN THE STATE... being a citizen means being an OWNER, not being a servant!

Therefor everybody needs to take his/her responsibility as an owner and do some repairs now and then.... or watching his property go to hell.

It's time for repairs.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. k&r Excellent post..
this is the only kind of idea that gives injects me with any hope...

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. self-delete
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 11:33 PM by arendt

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. We shall see if I can survive with this attitude at DU...
If the bulk of DU people think that my proposals for Constitutional Restoration
are beyond the pale, then the country is sort of screwed, because I find them
the minimum changes we need to survive.

arendt
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Which forum would you suggest this go into?
The main forum is a hodge podge, and the activist forum doesn't get a huge
number of hits.

Suggestions?

arendt
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. general forum is where most readers go to engage in interesting topics..
that's my impression...
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Arendt...this is inspiring....The Constitution Party..
I like the sound of that...is this something that could be pushed before the 2008 elections?

I think that this would be a great thing for Paul Hackett and the PAC he is now participating in to promote and belong too.What group would be energized and enthusiastic enough to support the protection of the Constitution, I think they would?

I know that the Supreme Court is an issue that is not part of the new party program, but it maybe something that could be addressed in the future.

On the Supreme Court...I think that there should be some discussion on the lifetime appointments.....If the President can only serve 2 four year terms...why shouldn't we limit the terms of the Supreme Court Justices...to say 8 to 12 years....

This is an excellent post, I am bookmarking it and rereading it.
You have put great thought into this!!
Thank-you!!:applause:
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I agree that this would just distract from a fundamentally...
conservative restoration of the Constitution.

This is a major change. You've got the Bush crowd angling to repeal Presidential
Term limits, Arnie trying to remove residency requirements, etc.

We would completely lose control with this kind of change.
Besides, the point of a lifetime appointment is a sense of security.

About the only thing I can think that might help is a mandatory retirement
age, tied to average lifespan. Today, anyone over the age of 80 cannot
possibly hold their own against a rabid punk like Scalia.

The founders had different lifespans, and a lifetime appointment on average
ended much earlier. I don't think they intended for the same people to sit
until they were 90 years old.

But, I won't touch it now.

Thanks for your input. Please consider making other suggestions. I need
some kind of consensus. This is Open Software. I wish other people would
say something. I don't intend this to be my personal property.


arendt
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. subject title is over the heads of most of the membership
kind of like the mindset of the "masses" - it doesn't grab their attention because they don't get it. these things have to be spoon fed little tiny bits of new information/ideas at a time, too often.

what can i say? maybe change the subject table to "Creating a Constitutional Party"... or ? something similar?
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yes you are absolutely correct!!! Its my over-education.
MODERATOR - its too late to edit the title!

Can you change it to "Creating a Constitutional Party"? - so that my
Greatest votes aren't scattered over THREE threads?

Thanks, if you read this.

arendt
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
34. Not even the moderator can change the title after EDIT has expired n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
:patriot:
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Oh, forgot - Point 9 - Balance the Budget by Repealing all Bush Tax Cuts
This guy is a tax disaster.

We have to block the Estate Tax giveaway, and the Oil Extraction Giveaway,
and the $120 Billion hit from blowing off the Tobacco Settlement.

We also have to repeal the corporate Welfare Prescription Drug disaster.

Oh, and maybe we should clearly define Corporate Welfare, and make them
get off it.

arendt
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. I Recommendeth Thee Thread Though I Knoweth Not
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 11:33 PM by Clara T
What Thee Hath said
For it tis' late for my weary eyes and off now to bed



Once again arendt you are found:

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Too funny. I must learn how to drop images into my posts. n/t
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 11:36 PM by arendt
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I love this post...
i still haven't figured out how to upload pic's into messages..
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Here's what the Post help says:
From the "HTML lookup table" help in the message options field of "Post"

Images:

No tags needed - just type the URL starting with http://
Images must be in gif or jpeg format



That implies the image must be available on someone's webisite?
What if you don't have a website?

Can anybody help?

Thanks,

arendt
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Lindsay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. Sign up for one of the free hosting services,
like http://photobucket.com/

They're designed to host pictures for sites like e-bay, so you can actually post the pictures you store there and they'll show up.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. thanks very much! I'll check it out! n/t
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. It is a radically sane idea to rescue our heritage.
The party platform, that is. Add baseball and icecream to the internet idea, part Move On and part little league, it could work. We're only on the brink of the event horizon; because we are, after all, eternal optimists.

Disclaimer: I have no freakin' idea if any of this is feasible or how to even start, but it will only be possible when we take back our communities...
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Its a thermometer to take the temperature of your community...
if this doesn't get support, your community is sick.

arendt
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. You Are Amazing
truly So
astute
so much-Too Much U
know

We need not simply new politicians
with new lubricants
we are in desperate planetary need for
new systems of governance

And we need it
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You are pretty astute yourself, although that picture is gross! n/t
Did you ever see my old discusssion of some really high-tech governance systems,
which I posted a couple of years ago under the name of "NK government"?

If Black Holes make your head hurt, this is Stuart Kaufmann's complexity theory
translated into politics.

Just ask, I'll send the URL.

(I'm not waiting up!)

regards,

arendt
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. Sign me up!
I want my Constitution back, and I want it NOW! We can save the country only by saving the Constitution. Where do I sign up? I am one "little" poor person, living out in the country with my disabled husband. But I am not dead yet.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Ah, actually doing the work...now that is activism...
As you can see, you are not merely "out in the country", you are on the
Internet. I'm only on dialup myself. We are equals.

What can you do?

Well, strip off all the "black hole" and "hannah arendt" intro and cross
post the body of this post. Direct them back to this thread at DU, and
we will see what happens.

I got to go to bed to go to work. But, I will check back.

Like your slogan, sort of like "I want my MTV"!

arendt
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. not quite sure how to do this,
any help here? And to which forum should I cross post it?

-One of our few luxuries is a cable modem, otherwise the phone lines can get funky here. We get our written news/radio via computer, rather than spend money on the local (ugh) newspaper.
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Niccolo_Macchiavelli Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
32. good luck
i would very much like to see it take the hurdle of factionalism..
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Given that you are the first post since I went to bed...
it seems it will require not only good luck, but a lot of hard work.

I expected to be flamed, not ignored.

Things are worse than I thought.

arendt
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Your getting k&r'ed
:kick:
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
38. k&r n/t
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
39. kick.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. This is no longer a partisan issue..
except in the regard that both parties have had an equal part in bringing us to this point.

To quote another poster from another board:

"70% of the people in this country support return of the government back to the people, rebuilding and maintenance of the public infrastructure for the benefit of all, rights and protections for workers, land use planning and protection of the natural world, equal opportunity and protection under the law for all citizens, and have no interest in harassing their neighbors because of their race, gender, religion, gender preference or for any other reason." - mberst

This is one of those small truths that makes blaming Bush and the neocons for our plight quite unacceptable. Skillful tactics have been used by both parties to isolate the people from their true power and strength, which is only found in unity.

Americanism or Constitutionalism or whatever you want to call it must be the ideology or theology of any popular movement. An understanding that all men are created equal. This alone cannot be the goal of the movement, though. There must be a stated purpose that everyone can work together for. Something that can stand on its own moral footing, like justice or truth (remember how effective the message of restoring honor and dignity to the White House was?).

Using justice as a cause has less pitfalls than any other cause. The unpunished crimes committed over the past few years are fertile ground for liberals and conservatives alike. Truth seems to be a topic that can divide liberals and conservatives. Why mention conservatives at all? Well I'm hoping that a united front can be formed to stand against this fascist cabal. One must realize by now that the cabal includes some very liberal Democrats, Sen. Lieberman is a sterling example of this. His voting record is very liberal, and yet, he is the staunchest apologist for this regime.

The main thrust of my take on a new party or movement is that it must have support from people of both of the current political parties. Otherwise we will fall prey to more divide and conquer tactics. This is not a situation that affects only the far left loonies, but everyone on the planet. They must be stopped. There must be justice. The sooner it happens, the easier it will be. But it is already too late for it to happen easily or without danger.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Another DU board? Can you send me a link?
Agree with all you say.

Especially about getting rid of the current corporate party hacks.

arendt
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. brilliant username.. excellent points.. in full agreement..
70% of the American people is quite an astonishing statistic... but at a guess, i can't possibly see how that could be wrong, given the number of people who don't even bother going to the polls because they do not believe that either party represents their best INTERESTS. (not just about "views").

So yeah.. what we need is not about being against or blaming Bush et al, both parties brought us here to where we are now, and since it will be up to the people to turn that around if at all possible, a party Seeking to establish Truth, Justice & Liberty for all (my addition) seems kind of like a no brainer doesn't it?

I will quibble with your use of the term "far left loonies" - i'm getting sick of hearing it used in the context of discussing issues which should concern everyone with equal emphasis and unanimity.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
41. Hey Arendt.....
I have been giving thought to the "New Constitution Party".

I think you should share this with other Democrat blogs and get their thoughts. I think there are a lot of people looking for an alternative.

I also would look at why the, "Green Party" and the "Libertarian" party really never gained a foothold in the political arena. I will volunteer to do this if you like...I think it's important to understand why these other political groups were neutered.

Your thoughts?
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. No. NO. Not NEW Constitution Party - that screams CHANGE...
we want RESTORATION.

New Constitution could be ANYTHING. People will NOT
sign up for CHANGE. They want stability, familiarity,
the way things USED TO be.

Please tell me you understand this.

arendt
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. The Greens (and others) see issues as the means to an end.
This is sort of complicated, so I may need to try a couple times to get it right. The gay marriage issue is something that divides rather than unifies people. The underlying principle - equality - is the ideal that should be sought after and espoused.

The problem is that if one were to do this, the party would allow itself to be open to homophobes and that idea is very unpalatable to most progressives.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Not clear. Please restate.
You need to explain exactly what your emphasis is.

I want the Constitution back. Gay rights is like any
other non-governance issue. It is secondary. No Constitution,
no rights.

Regarding using issues as a means to an end, let me
quote Frazier Crane:

...."I'm a man. I can't use sex to get what I want. Sex is what I want."

I can't use the Constitution as an issue. The process is what
I want. The process to use ANYTHING as an issue is broken.

Can you please put your issue/concern in this context,
so I can understand it.

thanks,

arendt
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yes, I agree with Frazier.
The problem with the Greens (and others) is that they organize around an issue or two. That is never going to be enough, even if the majority of folks agree with their side of the issue. Party politics is a much more powerful force than just choosing issues off of a menu.

The issue itself is the ends that are sought after. The party should be a means of getting to that goal. We are continually being jerked around and distracted by those goals. As an illustration, does it really matter if gays can marry each other if we know that next year they will all be rounded up and put in detentions centers? Surely winning a victory over the gay marriage issue would not be a victory in any real sense.

Understand that I agree with you about the Constitution. It is the only path that I can see that has even a small chance of producing any real change. The change that we are looking for can be Justice. The Constitution allows for impeachment and that should be a logical start. But it is only the first step in a long and difficult struggle. The Politics of it must be right, the people must be motivated, and the neocons must be outsmarted and kept at bay somehow for long enough period of time for things to change. Years, not weeks or months.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I think you are saying that organizing liberals is like herding cats...
because they are the ultimate single-issue voters.

Well, we have to get them organized around the
background condition, the "ground of being" that
allows them to have their issues at all.

Your example of gay rights is very good.
It is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
(Is that an extendible analogy? Call the single issue
voters - deck chair guys?)

The good thing about "restoring the Constitution" is
that it unifies all our attacks against the neocons
under one simple banner. Simmplicity is the key to
effectiveness.

Politically, we need to use one issue after another,
with all of them pointing to the rampant un-Constitutionality
of the GOP. Just like every "welfare queen in a Cadillac"
story was used to pummel the liberals.

arendt
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. My deeper concern is not the GOP or Bush for that matter.
Yes, they do need a good pummeling and that is undeniable. But what I fear is alienating folks that voted for Bush that are beginning to awaken to what monsters these people are.

When I think about it, there is just as much reason to rub our noses in what we have allowed them to do to our country. It is not all their fault. Plenty of blame to go around for not having a real opposition party to check them before things went this far.

It is the Democratic wing of the neocon movement that is truly frightening to me, and that has the most power to stop us in our tracks. They have done it before and they will continue to fight any populist movement. IMHO, the Bushies that were deceived can be forgiven much easier than the Dem leaders that are still supporting this regime. They are beyond redemption. Heads on pikes!!!
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Heads on Pikes! LOL!
what is it about *some* dem party activists (obviously not all) are absolutely blind to this? The Neo Con movement has infiltrated so many think tanks liberal and Conservative alike, where our policies are drafted, advanced to legislatures and the executive branch.













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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Hey Arendt....
Yes, I understand where you're going and the thought process behind it. It is a restoration.....of laws and principals....

I think the Project Manager in me...is thinking about how to introduce this to open minds....and not so open minds

Their first thought is this is a "new" party....like the Green party or the libertarian party.

It is not the Republican Party nor the Democrat party...so...

hmmm..I am going to have to think about this

How do you bring something into existence without it being labled "New" how do you avoid that trap?

:shrug:
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. Breathtaking
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 08:54 PM by Clara T
Necessary if we care enough to re-enchant our everyday lives with meaning and escape the destruction of all we hold dear.


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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
54. You'd need
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 10:40 PM by dusty64
a new party name, the Constitution Party exists and it is EXTREMELY rightwing and scary. http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

I LOVE this idea though and the platform is beautiful. As soon as a new name is found I would seriously consider finally joining a political party.
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PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
55. I have a theory...
America as it started around few hundred years ago, is different, then what it is today.

But is it?

The founders wanted a true democracy in which we all are free; and by the liberty entrusted unto us by God we can participate in the political experiment called America -- in which we all have the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, in this great country.

Well that was the democracy that was the ideal true democracy even 200 years ago, but was the ideal goal (but not reality) -- then -- as it is today.

The world has not changed that much -- just the stage and the costumes, which we the people live in.

It really is not all that complicated, we just need to explore our core "liberal" values that made our country great, that is the party called liberal Democrat. By becoming more liberal we become more American.
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