Lindsay Graham supports labor, detention camps for 'disloyal Americans'

[shance]

Please call Senator Grahams office and ask why does he propose and support policies like the Nazis during the thirties and forties?

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/022106a.html

A must read article. Truly terrifying. Here is just the beginning of the artice - go to above link for the whole thing!

Not that George W. Bush needs much encouragement, but Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for the administration’s domestic operations -- Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.

“The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements,” Graham, R-S.C., told Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6.

“I stand by this President’s ability, inherent to being Commander in Chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don’t think you need a warrant to do that,” Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat.

“Senator,” a smiling Gonzales responded, “the President already said we’d be happy to listen to your ideas.”

In less paranoid times, Graham’s comments might be viewed by many Americans as a Republican trying to have it both ways – ingratiating himself to an administration of his own party while seeking some credit from Washington centrists for suggesting Congress should have at least a tiny say in how Bush runs the War on Terror.

But recent developments suggest that the Bush administration may already be contemplating what to do with Americans who are deemed insufficiently loyal or who disseminate information that may be considered helpful to the enemy.

[converted_democrat]

1. This is getting out of hand, way out of hand....n/t

[MadMaddie]

2. When the dems take over...

And start prosecuting these nuts...they should be the first ones to occupy their secret prisons for treason.

[leftchick]

8. "when the dems take over"

now aren't you the hopeful one. I wish I had your optimism.

[MadMaddie]

16. he...he....

it comes to me sometimess.....:toast:

[libhill]

37. They

will all be reeducated, their wealth will be redistributed, and their firearms seized. Let's see how they fucking like it when the shoe is on the other foot - hee hee. Be careful what you ask for, Rethugs. You might get it. But not quite in the way you asked. I think President Hillary should be authorized to tap the phones of suspected wing nuts and Republican reactionaries. They might cause trouble when the U.N. troops arrive.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. The scariest part of this

is they can decide upon the definition of Fifth Column. Seeing that Coulter and other rw shills are already calling libs traitors, it wouldn't be a giant leap to call us Fifth Column and ship us away.

[maxrandb]

19. OK. Help me out

Where does this term "Fifth Column" come from? What exactly are columns 1 thru 4.

Did I miss a day in civics class?

[karlrschneider]

23. Fifth column

http://ask.yahoo.com/20000110.html

[maxrandb]

32. Thanks

So if I don't support Bush and the Republican Guard, and I work to get them kicked out of office, I could be classified as a "Fifth Columnist"?

Where do I sign up?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

43. It was a term used during WWII

and may have come from WWI. I know it related to the German Army, which I guess had four columns, or armies, but the general boasted that a "fifth column" was at work in the enemy country, sowing discontent and lowering morale to help the German cause.

Edited to say I read the rest of the posts on this subthread and learned something. Hmm...it came from the Spanish Civil War instead of Germany! Thanks for the education!

[libhill]

38. If the bastards

try to ship me away, they will find out to their sorrow that Rednecks and wing nuts aren't the only people who " keep and and bear arms". Their gun fanaticism might come back and bite them in the ass.

[FormerRepublican]

4. No problem - he should check right in. And take his pal Bush with him.

[underpants]

5. Uh.. I watched those hearings and this is taken WAY out of context

WAY out of context.

[RazzleDazzle]

17. WHO, pray tell, are Fifth Columnists in the U.S.?

If it's taken out of context, what IS the fucking context?

I hate this man who sits in the White House with a white hot passion, along with most of the imbecile sycophants he's put in his administraion. Does that me a Fifth Columnist? It certainly would to Bush -- we ALL know that. He is, after all, the one who famously said:

There ought to be limits to freedom.

and:

Things would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship -- just as long as I'm the dictator. (He said this 3 different times.)

[OKNancy]

21. I posted a snip from the transcript

below and also a link to the transcript. Graham was warning against labeling people fifth columnists.

[zanne]

18. I hope you're right, underpants.

This stuff is hard to believe. But then again, it's hard not to believe.

[DemonGoddess]

6. this is disgusting.

:grr:

[Double T]

7. McCarthyism all over again, with a new twist.........

Are Americans so damn stupid that we never learn our hard lessons from the past?????

[Up2Late]

9. Well I support labor, detention camps for ALL Republicans Lindsey

How about that?! :mad: And for all Republican Senators with women's names, Lindsey, Dana...

[Kansas Wyatt]

33. Labor camps for Republicans?

:rofl:

Republicans actually working, instead of bitching, pissing, and moaning about why they shouldn't have to get anywhere near labor?

[izzybeans]

10. If they were really worried about "fifth column movements"

they would be rounding up the klansman and other rightwing terrorist organizations conspiring against the government.

But then again they aren't really worried about "subversive" movements, they are worried about "progressive" movements. There would be no other reason for the confusion between the words terrorist and liberal, whenever we have a serious problem with rightwing fundamentalist terrorists in this country.

[jsamuel]

11. I REALLY hate defending Graham here, but this is totally out of context

These quotes cut out what he said before and after. Plus, Gonzo was not answering that question! He was answering Graham's question about if Congress has the right to ban torture and also wiretapping. Gonzo answered that with a "we would listen to you whine, but we won't change anything" kind of answer.

What Graham was saying with the "fifth column" movements (I think anyway) is that if someone actually takes ACTION against the US government (as in bombs and such) to support the enemy.

[MADem]

12. If he actually said this, he's completely lost his fucking mind

Isn't that shithead a reserve JAG, and a licensed attorney??? If those are his sentiments, his ass should be disbarred!

However, closer inspection of the article reveals that at least some aspect of this, save the back and forth with Gonzo (and I disagree with the twit's take on warrants, and how to handle Fifth Columnists) is speculation:

Plus, there was that curious development in January when the Army Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a $385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the United States, to deal with “an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs,” KBR said.

Later, the New York Times reported that “KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space.” ...Less attention centered on the phrase “rapid development of new programs” and what kind of programs would require a major expansion of detention centers, each capable of holding 5,000 people. Jamie Zuieback, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, declined to elaborate on what these “new programs” might be.

Only a few independent journalists, such as Peter Dale Scott and Maureen Farrell, have pursued what the Bush administration might actually be thinking.

Scott speculated that the “detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law.” He recalled that during the Reagan administration, National Security Council aide Oliver North organized Rex-84 “readiness exercise,” which contemplated the Federal Emergency Management Agency rounding up and detaining 400,000 “refugees,” in the event of “uncontrolled population movements” over the Mexican border into the United States. ...

I'm not saying this could never happen, and that the intent isn't suspicious and cause for concern, but the article, in toto, does not deliver what its header touts.

There's a huge leap there from Graham supporting warrantless searches for "enemies of the state" to some independent journalists' speculations, and the dots are not connected. Again, I am not saying that this cannot be true, but the article doesn't support it.

[OKNancy]

13. Transcript - as others have posted totally NOT the intent of what Graham

was saying:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/07/AR2006020700731_pf.html

And the administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue fifth column movements.

And let me tell folks who are watching what a fifth column movement is. It is a movement known to every war where American citizens will sympathize with the enemy and collaborate with the enemy. And it's happened in every war.

And President Roosevelt talked about, "We need to know about fifth column movements."

So my friends on the other side, I stand by this president's ability, inherent to being commander in chief, to find out about fifth column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that.

**** But here's my challenge to you, Mr. Attorney General. There will come a point in time where the information leads to us believe that citizen A may be involved in a fifth column movement. At that point in time where we will need to know more about citizen A's activity on an ongoing basis, here is where I part.

I think that's where the courts really come in. I would like you and the next attorney general and next president, if you have that serious information that you need to monitor this American's citizen's conduct in the future, that they may be part of a fifth column movement to collaborate with the enemy, I want a check and a balance.

Here's why: Emotions run high in war. And we've put a lot of people in prison who just looked like the enemy and never did anything wrong, just as loyal American as you or I.

But it would be very easy in this war for an American citizen to be called up by the enemy and labeled as something they are not. It would be very easy, in my opinion, if you're a business person dealing in the Mideast who happens to be an American citizen, the business deal goes bad, that bad things could happen to you.

And I would just like the administration to entertain the idea of sitting down with Senator DeWine and others to see if we can find a way at some point in the process of monitoring fifth column movements to have a check and balance system that not only would strengthen the commander in chief's role, it will give guidance to the people fighting the war. You'll have Congress on board. You'll be stronger in courts. And the enemy will be weaker. ******

How does that proposition sit with you?

GONZALES: Senator, the president already said we'd be happy to listen to your ideas.

[underpants]

24. Thank you OKNancy

:thumbsup:

[OKNancy]

28. You are welcome, but posters aren't bothering to read it

Oh well, outrage is more fun.

[radio4progressives]

34. Nancy, I Completely DISAGREE with your intrepretation.

I heard Graham say this during the judiciary committee and I've read this statement printed here, and it is exactly as i remember it.

Graham makes it appear as though he's supporting the principles of checks and balances on determining "fifth columns" - but if you honestly think for a moment that Graham is SINCERE about the portion regarding checks and balances in the heat of the moment and all that, well maybe i should remind readers that the appointment of Judge Elite-O, was not about abortion.

[RazzleDazzle]

44. Sorry, it IS what he said -- he just softened it a bit later via

concern about the courts being involved, which is nice, but it doesn't erase what he said earlier.

And let me tell folks who are watching what a fifth column movement is. It is a movement known to every war where American citizens will sympathize with the enemy and collaborate with the enemy. And it's happened in every war.

There are an awful lot of people right here at DU who could be INTERPRETED to be "enemy" sympathizers by virtue of their concern about innocent civilians getting blown to bits, all of Iraq getting blown to bits and DU dropped everywhere, the "enemy combatants" at Guantanamo, etc.

Good on him for his concern about the courts being involved in surveillance ... but I am NOT reassured about the earlier part of his statement.

[PATRICK]

14. A long while ago

I surfed around to see what exactly happened to "Fifth Columnists" here in America during WWII. I was amazed to have to wade through rank upon rank of GOP usage of that term to target Communist sympathizers in the fifties, barely an oblique peep on the PROPER use of the term(from RW dictator's Franco's march to power in the Spanish Civil War) concerning traitors like Bush's grandfather and his cabal of investors and industrialists.

Not surprising to see the consistent re-targeting of the most illogical allusions away from their proper home. In fact, the GOP has continued to house and thrive upon the same names, the same tactics, the same agendas, the same secret conspiracies AND actual usage of ex-Nazis(sort of ex) especially in the Bush regimes. Bush I thought nothing about employing people involved in treasonous acts such as selling munitions to the Japanese.

The paranoia and projection is both vile and insane.

And laughable. The only true resistance of any note are the praiseworthy efforts of isolated whistle-blowers and mainly the reluctant, clouded sense of the American majority which- to the dismay and fear of the RW- has not fallen for the entire line of crap ever.

Without fear and dictatorship- stemming from their own fear and distance from democracy- they MUST travel down these well trodden, hellish and treasonous paths that might lead to the repression of enemies real or imaginary, but most certainly to their own destruction- their souls long having preceded them in the fall from grace.

Quakers? Cindy Sheehan? War mothers? Catholic Workers? Greenpeace? Politely inneffectual democratic leaders? Some enemies. This is a testament to their monumental incompetence and lunacy that such people kept reviled and muted in the MSM and powerless in government at all levels can inspire such a hateful and ridiculous idea. In a real environment of opposition and expression of real ideas with the least accountability, all these notables would be in prison themselves. That we did not imprison and discredit their forebears after WWII sufficiently kept the cancer alive for this dark resurrection.

The wonderful world of lies.

[nolabels]

15. Years prior to U.S. Civil War in the 1800's were similar in parallels

Instead this time of a war about slavery and dropping out the Union it would probably be a war about haves and have-nots

There is too much intellectual dishonesty going around these days for many to make much rhyme out of reason.

If you are poor or in disagreement of how things are run then you belong in debtors / dissidents prison

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

20. Fifth column

Fifth column

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A fifth column is a group of people who clandestinely undermines from within a larger group to which it is expected to be loyal, such as a nation. The term originated with a 1936 radio address by Emilio Mola, a Nationalist general during the 1936-39 Spanish Civil War. As four of his army columns moved on Madrid, the general referred to his militant supporters within the capital as his "fifth column," intent on undermining the Republican government from within.

The term is also used in reference to a population who are assumed to have loyalties to countries other than the one in which they reside^A or who supported some other nation in war efforts against the country they lived in.

During World War II, German minority organisations in Poland and Czechoslovakia formed Selbstschutz which actively helped the Third Reich in aggression against those countries and engaged in widescale atrocities..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

A Karl Rove who has dual citizenship with Germany?

[Initech]

22. The truly scary part - how do you define "fifth column"?

There's been talk of this on the board before, but how do you define it? This is such a broad category that eventually even every day liberals like us are the ones that could get marked in the "fifth column". This is some truly frightening shit. :scared:

Impeach Bush and vote Graham out of office pronto.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

25. Exactly. That IS the problem when you you have a guvm't

moving towards toward totalitarianism.

[roguevalley]

26. someone on this board told me I was full of it for worrying about this

what now?

[rinsd]

27. Not full of it, a tad too anxious perhaps.

See this post from thsi thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=482321&mesg_id=482479

[leveymg]

29. So, does that mean that Graham thinks Fascists should be arrested?

He should pack an overnight bag, himself.

What a little turd.

[mopinko]

30. welcome to the fifth column.

i made a point of telling DH yesterday that i will never, ever run away from home, or go anywhere for more than a day without telling him. if i ever don't come home he should assume i am in custody.

[libhill]

39. Keep your powder dry -

n/t

[MellowOne]

31. Swing Heil

It's Nazi Germany all over again, can we debt the beast?

[libhill]

35. HE can start

by locking himself up, along with Bush and the other treasonous Republican bastards who sold our fucking ports to the United Arab Emirates. These nazi fuck wads are TOTALLY INSANE -

[Coexist]

36. So I should keep a bag packed by the bed then?

How exciting, just like when I was expecting my children.

[libhill]

40. Nope

just have a semi-auto handy. They all love guns so damned much, I'm sure no self respecting neo nazi Rethug could possibly have a problem with that. Maybe we can all arrange to give them a nasty little surprise. As they are so fond of telling liberals, they'll "get this liberals gun when they take it out my cold dead hand".

[shance]

41. Why would it be surprising that Graham would want this?

Who hear trusts or feels that this man is a good, decent man?

Raise your hand.

Would you rather give him the doubt and take that .0000000001 percent chance he's not really a bastard, he just plays one on Cspan?

To watch him during the hearings and witness an individual like Graham exhibit such a smug, arrogant and somewhat sinister demeanor, along with a rather cocky 'I know something you don't know' attitude shouldn't surprise any of us.

But it sure as hell should make Americans angry.

These guys are trying to scapegoat not Liberals buy ANYONE who stands in their fascist, planet destroying ways.

That's it. Nobody is safe from these individuals who lie and blame others on an hourly basis. Leopards do not soon part from their spots. Any American is a fool to think otherwise.

[genie_weenie]

42. Where do I sign up?

I could use a job and a Labor Camp sounds like it will get me some good exercise! :applause:

[Name removed]

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