Hypocrisy at DU? (UAE)

[Charlie Brown]

If Israel had scored the deal to manage our ports, somehow I know the same people rushing to defend the UAE would be going balistic trashing Israelis and their government.

Hypocrisy.

UAE has a history of supporting terrorists and giving money and resources to countries that hate us. They have locked up gay couples and have encouraged anti-semitism. Why are so many posters at DU determined to defend a country that has been incredibly hostile to the US and others in the past?

And, more importantly, why is UAE now in charge of our ports?

[FreedomAngel82]

1. Have you read ANY of the posts about this?

Please educate yourself before you go around spewing shit.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

6. Apparently not...

[stickdog]

49. Why does ANY OTHER COUNTRY have control of our ports?

I don't see why the OP thinks that it's helpful to paint this basically uncontroversially BAD move as some sort of Arab/Israeli battle.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

2. I haven't read all the posts on DP but I find there are many more

against the deal than before it.

:popcorn:

[Wetzelbill]

40. fancy meeting you in here

:)

[saltpoint]

3. Nationwide all day long almost everybody has voiced concern for

the administration's dealings with UAE.

Supporters of the deal have been rare.

Several of the posts on various blogs all day center on Democrats and Republicans in a bi-partisan rebuke to an arrogant, uninformed president who has now threatened to veto legislation which attempts to kill the deal, whether sponsored by the GOP or Dems.

Most of the negative energy, I believe, has been directed at Dubya.

[XOKCowboy]

4. Is it hypocrisy for me to just WISH that the Israeli's operated our ports?

Those guys know security. I'm really not a big Israeli supporter (I think that our continued and unbridled support for Isreal just to get the Jewish vote is real hypocrisy and got us embroiled in the real war on terrorism ) but I'd take the Israeli's any time over the UAE.

[Violet_Crumble]

5. Yeah! Why can't everyone just trash the UAE?

That's the way to do it. Create a bunch of complete rubbish and act as though it's fact, imply that anyone who is noticing that some (not all) folk who have a problem with a foreign company that isn't British holding the contract are Israel-haters, show a lack of knowledge of anything to do with the UAE, and mix in some overdone self-righteousness that has nothing to do with whether a contract should be awarded to a foreign company or not...


Y'know, I can understand folk who don't want ANY foreign company operating a contract like that, but then I see comments like the ones you made and I realise that for some folk it's got a lot more to do with a hatred of Arabs than anything else...

Violet...

[Charlie Brown]

9. If this had been an Egyptian or Jordanese firm

I wouldn't have cared (at least no more than for any foreign country controlling our ports). When our gov't outsources our ports to a government that has close ties with countries and people who want to destroy us, I care.

That's not racism, it's common sense.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. Sorry, but I don't believe that...

Uh, you do realise that using the weak and ignorant arguments used by those who claim the UAE has close ties with countries and people who want to destroy the US, you've gone and put up an argument for why the US shouldn't look after its own security? Or are you unaware of the Bush regimes close ties with countries and people who want to destroy the US...

What you are saying isn't common sense. It's showing a distinct lack of logic...

Violet...

[Charlie Brown]

14. so, what do you think of UAE's treatment of gay couples?

since you're so friendly with them.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. What the fuck does that have to do with the ports contract???

n/t

[philarq]

19. So perhaps Bin Laden Construction should bid on Levee contracts in NO?

[Violet_Crumble]

24. or maybe the US govt could bid on it?

Like I said, they've got some majorly strong ties to terrorists and countries that harbour them :)

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

7. I agree with you!

That said, I still don't any foreign power patrolling our ports, that includes Israel. For those that know me, I sure that statement will come as a shock! But the premise of your post, well, that crossed my mind SEVERAL times today as I watched this unfold.

[beam me up scottie]

12. Ditto.

I don't find your opinion to be at all shocking, but then, I know you better than that.

Lots of folks are using the issue to camouflage prejudice.

I'm a little fed up with hearing about the evil AY-RABS.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Yup.

There are some that are using this as a 'run-around' of their own prejudices. However, I think there are many of us that could care less what country the contract went to....our security should not be "out-sourced!" I think the OP's hypothetical statement about Israel is on the nose though. Again, for some, it would be nothing but an end-run around their own prejudices about Israel.

Honestly, I was pissed to find that the contract is currently held by the British. I am even more pissed to find it was doled out on Clinton's watch! :grr: Talk about providing grist for the Republican mill!

[beam me up scottie]

32. Well, as long as you're not blaming white straight christian men,

oh wait... you just did!

[Behind the Aegis]

35. I am bad that way...

:evilgrin:

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Exactly

[Violet_Crumble]

17. No shock there...

It's a predictable formula. Trot out ignorant bullshit about an Arab state, bring Israel into the conversation even though Israel's got nothing to do with it, and accuse others of being obsessed with Israel...

Violet...

[Charlie Brown]

21. and yet if this had been an Algerian, Lebanese, Jordanese or Iraqi firm

It would not have raised a single red flag for me.

I make one post questioning the credentials of UAE and am branded a racist. Amazing.

[beam me up scottie]

26. You're not the only one who's brought this up.

You're just either incredibly brave or stupid to do so in GD!

:evilgrin:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

30. ..........

:popcorn: :rofl:

[Violet_Crumble]

33. You didn't question the credentials - you made some ignorant comments...

Big difference. And I do think yr comments were showing some deep ignorance. How exactly is pointing out ignorance branding you a racist?

Violet...

[beam me up scottie]

38. um...

it was implied:

I see comments like the ones you made and I realise that for some folk it's got a lot more to do with a hatred of Arabs than anything else...

[Violet_Crumble]

51. And?

When those sort of ignorant comments come from some people with a history of bashing Arabs then it's a safe bet that's what it is. If he hasn't got a track record of it he's safe...

btw, I wasn't implying his comments were ignorant - I was stating that one loud and clear :)

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Oh please...

Had the contract gone to Israel, you and several others would have gone bat-shit nuts! And, that, like this current situation, wouldn't have been 'racism,' but simply not wanting a foreign entity patrolling our (US) ports. However, several are trying to make this about Arab discrimination. I have no doubt that on the right, that is a motivating factor. Personally, I was pissed to find out the Brits were the ones with the contract in the first place, then more pissed to hear it happened during Clinton's presidency.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Uh. Gimme a break! ;)

As usual, yr wrong. I would not have gone 'bat-shit nuts' for exactly the same reason I'm not going 'bat-shit nuts' over this one, so how about trying to formulate an argument based on what other people say rather than inventing what you'd like me to think?

I'm quite aware that for many on the left who weren't aware that P&O previously held the contract, their concerns are borne out of security and a belief that the US should look after sensitive infrastructure rather than out of bigotry. However, there are quite a few on the left and a few on DU for who this is about their hostility towards Arabs. Thankfully they're in the minority, but they do exist....

Personally I think control of US ports should be done by publicly owned US companies and there should be a strong trade-union presence to ensure that there's an interest in them staying that way. But with the US, I wouldn't be surprised to see their Customs service outsourced to Dehli, what with their fondness for palming off stuff to the highest bidder...

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Puh-leaze!

As usual you are wrong. But since it is a hypothetical, we will never really know.

"However, there are quite a few on the left and a few on DU for who this (would have) been about their hostility towards (Israel). Thankfully they're in the minority ((?)), but they do exist...."

[Violet_Crumble]

52. Quit telling me I'm wrong about what I think...

I've TOLD you what I think. If you want to ignore that and insist you know better than me what I think, keep on running with it, coz it's the most ridiculous thing I've seen. I've told you what I think. End of story. If I were inclined to join in the abject silliness of telling someone else what they think while ignoring what they say they think, I'd tell you you'd be donning the cheer-club pom poms and dancing round in joy if Israel got the contract. And when you say that you actually would be opposed to Israel getting the contract, I'll just tell you that as usual yr wrong and since it is a hypothetical, we will never really know...

Seeing as how you copied, pasted and then twisted part of my post, I guess it'd be asking too much for you to say whether or not you agree with what I said about hostility towards Arabs from some circles at DU?

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

54. Oh the irony!!!

You can tell me what *I* think, but forfend, I do the same! I told you what I think, but that seems to be irrelevant.

There are hostilities toward Arabs and Muslims at DU, just as there at Israelis and Jews. However, some here like to think that bigotry is only a "right-wing" 'value.'

So, do you deny that there are some anti-Semitic elements and hostility toward Israelis at DU?

[Violet_Crumble]

55. But I haven't told you what you think, bta...

I read what you said in a much earlier post about being opposed to any foreign country controlling US ports and respected that. I wish you could do the same for me, as I'm on the same side as you with this one...

I'm sure there are some who like to think that bigotry is only a right-wing value, but I'd guess that's due to the huge polarisation between the Left and the Right when it comes to US politics on the internet. It's the 'My side is pure and good and you guys all suck big chunky bits when it comes to everything' simplification of politics that some do to show their devotion to whatever political party they follow...

No, of course I don't deny there are some anti-Semitic elements and hostility towards Israelis at DU. With DU being such a large place, there's some elements of all sorts of bigotry, whether it be against Jews, Arabs, Muslims, women, gays, atheists, catholics, or african americans...

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Au contraire

Post #17.

If you respected my opinion, post #17 would not exist. I agreed with the OP's first statement, but your response to my post was "no shock there," and continuing in the post with accusing people of being obsessed with Israel, yet, neither the OP or I did that. You told me what I think. So, let me be very clear....if this contract had gone to an Israeli firm, many of those screaming about it being Islamaphobia would be the very ones screeching about giving it to the "apartheid" nation of Israel.

Since you can see that there are anti-Semitic elements and hostility toward Israel at DU, the OP's hypothetical should have been a "no-brainier."

[Violet_Crumble]

58. Nowhere in that post did I mention yr opinion on the ports contracts...

You made it very clear why you were agreeing with the OP's first statement and it was because of the garbage about Israel in it. As for obsession, I tend to think those who do little else but bring up Israel in topics that have got zero to do with Israel are usually just a bit obsessed. That's what *I* think. I never said what *you* think...

As someone else pointed out to you, if this contract had gone to an Israeli firm, many of those screaming in opposition to it being granted to an Arab firm would be doing cartwheels of joy about Israel getting it...

Yes, I said there is *some* anti-Semitism at DU, but I totally disagree with any attempts to paint many DUers as anti-Semitic or seething with hatred for Israel. So you and I disagree on the level of anti-Semitism and hatred of Israel we see at DU, and for that reason, I think the OP's comment was pretty ridiculous...

Violet...

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Spin it anyway you want...

I made it very clear that I thought those who were screaming about this being Islamaphobic were the same ones who would be screeching if the contract was given to Israel. You *inferred* that is what I thought (the bringing up of Israel), or you would have responded to the OP and not my post.

You say, "As someone else pointed out to you, if this contract had gone to an Israeli firm, many of those screaming in opposition to it being granted to an Arab firm would be doing cartwheels of joy about Israel getting it..." Yet, my response was..." At least one wouldn't..." Did you miss that post?

While you agree that there is *some* anti-Semitism here...is it any different than those who attempt to paint many DU'ers as a reasonably sizeable group of anti-Arab/Muslim bigots at DU?

[Violet_Crumble]

61. I'm not spinning it at all...

You said what YOU thought, and I told you what I thought. I've got no idea what's so hard to grasp about that. I did NOT tell you that I knew what yr opinion was on the ports contract like you did to me...

As for yr question, I've got no idea what you define as *some* nor how you seem to know what I define as *reasonably sizeable*, nor have I got any interest in getting into some ridiculous argument about them. Suffice to say, unlike some who accuse just about everyone who criticises Israeli policy towards the Palestinians as being anti-Semitic, I think the anti-Arab/Muslim bigots are a reasonably small but amazingly vocal group. btw, if you are actually interested in what I have to say, I've said that it's a reasonably small group in another thread a few days back and can provide the link if you decide to try to say that's not what I think :)

Violet...

[anitar1]

8. I read earlier about the real truth of this matter. If you

will look at the home page you will see that Kpete has put up an article by David Sirota telling about the deal the Bushbunch have been working on for the last year or so with the UAE , about a "free trade" pact. It is all revealed. And by the way , I do not want ANY FOREIGN ENTITIE managing our ports. Politicians make deals everyday that we are not informed of. I think they all suck.I did not know until today that China manages the port in Los Angeles. How many other dirty deals do we not know about? I trust no one, including our so called representatives. All political people are suspect, IMO.Sorry to disapoint you , but I am not going into an anti-semite fight here.

[melody]

10. It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with security

I wouldn't want Canadians guarding our ports, for heavens sake. Canadians shouldn't want us guarding their ports either, were they under attack. No offense to anyone, but the best people to guard those ports are people whose interests are directly involved in their protection. One hand away is one extra hand to be watched.

[MazeRat7]

16. Because a UAE company bought the company that provides the service.

This is a business deal plain and simple. The terminal services at the US ports in question are run by a very established British company called P&O (Peninsular Oriental Navigation Co). P&O shareholders voted to accept the offer from DP World (a UAE company) and not the offer from PSA (A Singapore holding company with interest in China).

This is all about deal making and it just so happens that in this deal, neither buyer is a great choice in terms of their ties to "questionable persons". Frankly I don't see how the US can block the sale other than being pissy about it with the Brits.

MZr7

[philarq]

18. Serious difference between P&O operating the ports and Dubai company

P&O operates over a 100 different ports in about 30 countries, they are a British 165-year-old company. The new Dubai ports Company is run by the GOVERNMENT of the UAE and therefore is in a completely different league than the previous operators. Think of it as buying gas at a Shell station which is a Dutch company, but if there were a new gas station owned an run by the government of North Korea that opened near you would you go there?

It is senseless to turn over security and control of operations like these to a governmental entity. Even if it were the Governemtn of the UK that wanted to bid on the contract, I believe that would be out of the question.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. Is that what the problem is??

The Dubai ports company is a publicly owned company as opposed to privately owned? Because we've had plenty of publicly owned companies here like Qantas and Telstra, and I've strongly opposed the govt selling them off every time they shed more and more of those companies. Anyway, I'm now wondering if some of the ire is because publicly owned companies don't seem to exist in the US and are seen as kind of socialist, and Americans seem to think that the govt actually gets in there and gets its hands dirty operating these companies....

Violet...

[regnaD kciN]

20. And, needless to say, vice-versa...

If Israel had scored the deal to manage our ports, somehow I know the same people rushing to defend the UAE would be going balistic trashing Israelis and their government.

If it had been an Israeli company that had purchased these ports, many of the same people who are going ballistic over the prospect of "foreign ownership" would be leading the cheers over this "collaboration with our great ally."

:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

25. At least one wouldn't...

[LittleClarkie]

27. On DU? Yer kidding.

I believe a majority of DUers tend to be pro-Palestine. Not that their anti-Israel per se. Just against how the Israelis treat the Palestinians and/or how some in our government seem to think they're working more for Israeli national interests than US national interest, ie the neocons.

[flaminbats]

28. I still haven't made up my mind on this issue..

I agree with Mike Malloy that we shouldn't sell our ports to any foreign government or company owned by a foreign power. But would my opposition to this deal be more visible if Israel bought our ports? If this issue was so important why didn't we oppose NAFTA and other agreements supported by Clinton, which loosened U.S. ownership of the borders? Is opposition to the hiring of illegal immigrants directed only at Hispanics..or would this backlash also be directed against English speaking Canadians?

Carter's support for this agreement makes me wonder if there is a right or wrong perspective to this question.

[stickdog]

50. There is a GLOBOCORPORATIST perspective and a

rational perspective.

Carter, despite his many good points, is certainly a GLOBOCORPORATIST.

[Swamp Rat]

36. If the Dutch and the French help us here in New Orleans, then FUCK the USA

:D We'll secede and charge les Américains HUGE tariffs! HAHA! :D

Vivre la Nouvelle Orléans!!! HOHO! :D

[noblecooley]

37. If Israel had gotten the deal

I would have gone bat shit because Israel isn't known as a major player in international shipping, or even Mediterranean shipping. Israelis running US ports? Now, that would have been a really stupid decision. Why not the US running US ports? That's the real question.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Damn, dude!

You're going to have to control yourself in here!

Shame on you, asking sensible questions in GD! :spank:

Welcome to the insanity that is DU!

[Wetzelbill]

41. hmmm... this is an odd thread

:)

[Bluebear]

45. Oh, not really.

All in all. ;)

[physioex]

42. Israel has done its share of deplorable things as well.....

Plus it continues to get billions in aid which I would call welfare. I maybe in the minority here but I don't care if UAE gets the deal. I don't want it going to UAE but if the country is stupid enough to "elect" this chimp then so be it......

[BuyingThyme]

43. Does the Israeli government own its own corporations?

I thought they were more of a faux democracy.

[Bluebear]

44. You harp about Du a lot, ya know. nt

[MADem]

46. The UAE is seven guys with absolute power

It is a dictatorship, disguised as a bunch of regional monarchs who elect their front man themselves. Seven guys--they own it all. No political parties. No "of the people, by the people, for the people." No dissent. Kisses all round, George????


Current (UNELECTED) members of the Supreme Council

HH President Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, Ruler of Abu Dhabi
HH Vice-President and Prime Minister Sheikh Maktoum bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Ruler of Dubai
HH Dr Sheikh Sultan bin Mohammed Al Qasimi, Ruler of Sharjah
HH Sheikh Saqr bin Mohammed Al Qasimi, Ruler of Ras al-Khaimah
HH Sheikh Rashid bin Ahmed Al Mu'alla, Ruler of Umm al-Qaiwain
HH Sheikh Humaid bin Rashid Al Nuaimi, Ruler of Ajman
HH Sheikh Hamad bin Mohammed Al Sharqi, Ruler of Fujairah

A bunch of DICTATORS, who own their country and everything in it, now are in charge of our ports.

[Dutch]

65. And yet not only do some Duers defend them...

But one of our number is actually proud of the fact that he's an advisor to these tyrants...

[EST]

47. Setting up a straw dummy just to knock it down and

to try to get a fire started here when there was none is not only disrespectful of your fellow travellers but is unfair, unjustified and unbecoming. Using such Bush-league tactics should be beneath you. I am ashamed.

[Charlie Brown]

48. Nah

I just don't like seeing a government with a terrorist history placed on a pedestal while less grievous regimes are frequently lambasted.

I called it hypocrisy, and that's what it is.

[DoYouEverWonder]

53. The hypocrisy is that the US supports the UAE at all

Since the UAE won't even recognize Israel has a legitimate country or that Israel has a right to exist, why does Bush think it's okay for folks like this to run our ports?

[noblecooley]

56. Because

Their view on Israel has no effect on us, and the UAE has a lot to offer to the US, regardless of their views on another country. I don't think it's hypocritical at all. The two relationships are mutually exclusive.

[DoYouEverWonder]

64. The UAE sure does have a lot to offer the US

like more hijackers and they're a great country for laundering money for terrorist organizations. Oh yeah, they've got a lot to offer.

[Eugene]

59. British, Arab, Israeli, or Chinese, the same concerns apply.

Is the contractor that provides services at your port trustworthy?
I am neutral, leaning skeptical, on the Dubai Ports World deal.
I am however alarmed at the intense knee-jerk anti-Arab fear
that drives the opposition.

A useful DU thread on what a port services company does can be found here.
Should P&O's new owners be trusted with such security sensitive work?
Are the workers and managers competent and responsible and do they have
clean backgrounds? If an Israeli firm (or a U.S. firm) wanted to do the work
we should ask the very same questions. No hypocrisy here.

Pointing out security issues with the company that prepares ships' manifests and
issues seaman's papers is legitimate. Questioning why BushCo stubbornly wants
to steamroll national security concerns about the ports deal is legitimate.
Railing about anti-semitism and homophobia on a security concern is needless bashing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. To answer your question: No

You've set up a complete strawman - "somehow I know ..." - and then called it hypocrisy, as if it actually happened. But thanks for stirring the feeding frenzy on DU.

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. That was the point, wasn't it?

"but thanks for stirring the feeding frenzy on DU."

[PsychoDad]

63. Watching all this....

And the racist paranoid reaction of many, I wonder if this isn't a calculated move by bushco?

Many here are calling for GOVERNMENT control of the ports. Is this what Bushco wants? Create an environment of fear and paranoia, then "submit" to the american public's call for federal control of the ports under the department of homeland security, then granting a no bid contract to Halliburton?

Remember what federal control of disaster relief did for N.O. before and after Katrina, do we really want this group in charge of anything else?

Peace.

[Deja Q]

66. Hyperbole. Only the US should own and operate US ports.

[AzDar]

67. Outsourcing on every level needs to be STOPPED. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. The hypocrisy is in the xenophobia that makes the UAE a bogeyman.

Not to mention the obvious racism.

[Skinner]

70. I'm gonna lock this.

This issue has nothing to do with Israel, and I don't really see the point in turning this into an Arab/Israeli issue. Unless the point is to disrupt.