Something I just learned-the exception is LIFE of the mother not HEALTH

[imperialismispasse]

In other words someone gets to decide subjectively whether or not the pregnancy will actually kill the mother before they will perform the late term abortion. A debilitating health condition may not meet their criteria. I think this is an important distinction.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Yes,

sometimes not terminating a preganancy can leave the woman sterile, or with a chronic condition for the rest of her life. This is why the decision should be in the hands of the woman and her physician.

[imperialismispasse]

2. And they have to decide (for lack of a better word) how dead she can be

and still be alive. Pre eclampsia may not kill a woman but it can send them into organ failure etc.

[kineneb]

3. the "pro-birth" nuts are at it again

dump the little blighter out and then let her/him starve, while Mommy dies on the table...:mad:

[imperialismispasse]

6. It looks that way

[Redbear]

4. Yes. The life/health distinction is what the whole case is about.

Late-term abortion bans are generally constitutional as long as there is an exception for both the life and health of the mother.

From the Roe opinion:

"For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother."

[imperialismispasse]

7. Thanks for clarifying

I think a lot of people aren't aware of this-even people who might be anti-choice normally may have a different opinion about this. This is just insane.

[sui generis]

5. all your wombs are belong to us mens!

we're series!!!!1!

I think that until America pays for your healthcare during pregnancy and pays for your child rearin' from an unwanted pregnancy it doesn't have any form of social authority to tell a woman what to do with her body in either event.

A nation of Gladys Kravitzes . . .

Until men can be forced to carry an unwanted baby to term and raise it, men particularly have no say, and no social authority over another human's body.

[imperialismispasse]

8. I think the life/health distinction might be important even to someone

who is normally anti-choice. I think we should be talking about this more.

[sui generis]

10. personally, I hate the idea of abortion

the "idea" of it.

I wish all pregnancies were wanted, all mothers were healthy, mentally, physically, financially, and that every child resulting from a pregnancy could come into a world full of hope and love and responsibility and opportunity.

But that's not reality. We have to be able to make those decisions for ourselves, in the context of our own lives, and respect it when other people make those decisions for themselves.

Maybe that means concluding that a fetus DOES NOT have as many rights as its adult host in every circumstance, including the right to live at the expense of the mother's health, or even life.

[Katherine Brengle]

17. I hate that it needs to exist--we live in a world that does not celebrate

the amazing ability of women to bring life into this world. Pregnancy is often lamented, it is not celebrated by society. It is a health condition, not a gift...

Until we learn to celebrate every pregnancy, every child, and every mother, we will always have this problem.

[Katherine Brengle]

16. I had MassHealth when I was pregnant with my daughter, and they

paid for everything--there are already programs out there like WIC and other programs that provide low-income mothers with the means to care for their children. The problem is that many women do not know this, and also I believe that other states may not have the same programs, but I'm not sure about this. Also, many of these programs cut you off when your child reaches a certain age, which isn't enough for a lot of poor mothers.

My state health insurance paid 100% of all of my doctor costs, my hospital stay, the delivery, everything--it also paid for all of my daughter's pediatrician visits. Until I got BCBS it did anyway, lol.

[fasttense]

9. When religious zealots get in the middle of a medical decision

the medical decision is frequently postponed. The need for an abortion due to a life threatening condition caused by pregnancy maybe overlooked or delayed because of these ridiculous religious restrictions. When it is, it may turn into a late term abortion only because the action wasn't taken sooner because of supposed "ethical" concerns for the fetus.

I had such a condition that only got worse as my pregnancy continued. I knew the risks and choose not to terminate the pregnancy but on two occasions, I almost died. I would never force someone to risk her life in the hopes that a fetus will grow into a live birth.

Yet these religious crazies will not give women the right to make that decision for herself. I'm glad that I'm done with my reproductive years. I feel sorry for the girls of today and the mothers of tomorrow. The dancing supremes will force women to obey their distorted views.

[imperialismispasse]

14. I'm sorry that happened to you and glad you are okay

and yeah I think it's awful that they could force someone to go through what you went through against their will.

[Lars39]

11. And nary a word about the mental health of the mother, either.

[cali]

12. I'm opposed to the ban on so called partial birth

abortions. However, pb usually refers to the D&X procedure, usually done after 20 weeks. If it's banned without a health exception, other options will still be available. C-sections are an option, as is inducing birth. They may not be preferable, but in the case of a woman who's health is endangered by continuing the pregnancy, they will still be available.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. I'm Fairly Certain It Would Be Obvious As To When It Is Elective And When

it's not. I can't think of any possible scenario where it logically could be called elective and logically argued at the same time that it isn't.

It is a tricky issue, and there probably is no law that could ever be drawn up that would successfully be able to cover all angles to make it banned for elective purposes but legal for all others (therefore no law I would then support), but I still consider it to be a shame that in our civilized society the potential exists for legal infanticide.

[imperialismispasse]

15. Really?

I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be at all obvious and since I'm going to assume you are not a womens health expert you wouldn't have any idea what all the different scenarios could be.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. Under What Premise Would It Not Be?

Can you come up with anything?

And by elective I mean that the baby could be born and expected to survive into adulthood and the mother has no medically necessary factor. I mean, wouldn't it be obvious to know when the baby can survive into adulthood and the mother is otherwise healthy and at no higher than normal risk to not deliver normally?

[imperialismispasse]

19. What are you talking about?

The mother is otherwise healthy? That isn't the premise of this thread. My point is that they are making a distinction between the LIFE of the mother and the HEALTH of the mother in the late-term abortion restriction coming before SCOTA. In other words the mother could be very very ill and some anti-choice doctor could under the law decide that she isn't actually going to die so she doesn't deserve the procedure even though her health could be severly impacted for life.