It's been a very divisive five years

[RagingInMiami]

And I've personally quit a job, ended friendships and ended a two-and-a-half year relationship with a live-in girlfriend over my political differences.

I hold a lot of resentment toward Bush voters, especially those who voted for him in 2004, not to mention those who supported him in the wake of Katrina.

But now I'm seeing that republicans throughout the country are finally waking up. As I write this, there is a republican on the Ed Schultz Show who has just renounced his republican membership.

So my questions are:

Are you ready to forgive and forget and reach out to your fellow republicans over the port issue?

Is this what finally brings this country back together again after five ugly years?

Or will this soon be forgotten about, and by next week, it will be us vs. them again?

[NYC Liberal]

1. I'll have to see whether those that are mad are really changing.

Personally I think a lot of them are mad because it could mean losing Congress in '06, not because they're seeing our side.

We'll see.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. Maybe we should insist that they complete a 12 step program

that includes counseling and re-education. That should weed out the ones who aren't serious and help the ones who are along the road to recovery.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Personally, I'd prefer something more secular than the 12 steps for this

gang..

Somehow, I think spending enough time holding hands and saying the Lord's Prayer isn't really their problem.

[Fridays Child]

2. I hate to say it but answer number 3 is probably the correct one.

As we speak, they're running back to the fold, over at freepturdland.

[mtowngman]

3. funny, I was just thinking today

about how divided and polarized the county's become. Everybody just hates anymore. I have become so skeptical and distrusting of republicans that I believe the port issue is a scam to save republican seats in the '06 elections. No, not ready to forgive and forget. In light of the war, it will be a long time before that happens.

[calimary]

11. I think this all started with hate radio. It gave a voice to those who sat

smoldering and fuming because women were gaining ground, as were people of color, they were getting old and less able to keep up. Hate radio came along and gave voice to all this and, in effect, made it okay for them to come out of the closet. Notice how they're all still so frickin' AGRIEVED. :eyes:

But yes, people hate, sometimes almost as a side job, more than EVER. I'm a little too young to remember the red-baiting scare and McCarthyism and Communist witchhunts of the 1950's, so I can't compare what's going on now to that. But it's the worst that I've personally ever seen.

I know we should forgive and forget. Don't look gift horses in the mouth. Maybe a reformed or recovering Republican is like a reformed smoker who's morphed into an aggressive anti-smoking fanatic. It may depend on the individual would-be convert as to the level of their sincerity and the makeup of their journey to this possible redemption. If they're sincere, I'd probably be completely forgiving. Especially if they voted for him in 2000 but held off in 2004 or maybe voted with some reluctance. MAYBE. There IS such a thing as buyer's remorse (probably underneath EVERYTHING we're seeing from these folks).

But, y'know, I don't have a lot of sympathy for problems or illnesses or other distresses that are self-inflicted. Probably should, but it's a really hard one for me. And to me, trusting bush, ESPECIALLY running up to 2004, is a self-inflicted wound. Often fatal. By 2004 they all should have known better. The information was there. So were those trying to share it.

[Hardrada]

32. Exactly, I won't forgive people who have blood

on their hands and who did it in the name of us all thus spattering us with blood too (though I have been noticeably furious about it thus SOMEWHAT naking up for the shame they have made me feel). This includes the Democrats who are warmongers too. I am not going to support a local Dem in the primary because he echoes Hillary.

[BrainRants]

4. Fuck reaching across the aisle.

We've had our hands bit enough playing that shit.

If you're a Repug, and you've got buyers remorse, then you need to get your ass across the aisle.

Otherwise, fuck you and your president.

(I feel better)

[Vinca]

5. As long as Republicans continue to care about corporations

and the wealthy and ignore the average citizen, the divide will continue.

[MadMaddie]

6. I think that Iran will be the final straw...

civil war within Iraq....war with Iran....recovery of the Gulf Coast
I don't think the country will have a choice but to come together and push for removal of the * cabal.

We may forgive but we will never forget....the sheeple following * got us into this...and we will make sure it never happens again...

[murielm99]

7. I will forgive and forget when

we take over congress and impeach the bastards and put as many of them as possible in jail.

I will forgive and forget when the scars of New Orleans and New York City have healed and the people affected have forgotten.

I will forgive and forget when each and every family member of a soldier killed in Iraq, and each and every family member of an Iraqi killed in our dirty war has forgiven them and forgotten.

I will forgive and forget when everyone who has lost a job, a home and dignity because their work was outsourced has been fully restored to productivity.

I will forgive and forget when all the rightwingnut radio shouters apologize to us and shut the fuck up.

I will forgive and forget when all of them apologize for making my country the most divisive I have seen it in my 57 years.

[July]

12. Have to agree with you, murielm99.

Their mess will take a long time to undo.

I fear that they will just hunker down with their grudges and work like the dogs they are to regain power again, the way they did after Nixon resigned in disgrace.

[lpbk2713]

8. He's a divider not a uniter.

If I live to be a thousand I'll never figure out how a totaly inept asshole like Shit-for-Brains got elected for one term let alone two.

[hippiegranny]

9. uh... unfortunately, the last one:

"...next week, it will be us vs. them again"

Because by then the talking points will have been trotted out and rehearsed and all the good little ditto heads who want so badly to believe in all things Boooosh will have been able to lull their consciences back to nighty-night land.

[LiviaOlivia]

10. I haven't talked to some of my brothers and sisters for 5 years.

Other then having a Bushite go thru the grinder and come out the other end of BushCo's America I, myself, will stay away from my GOP-loving siblings til I get an apology. My father, a life-long Dem, is heartbroken at the break-up of the family. But he accommodates them and I can't.

Their support of BushCo has gone beyond reason. I don't see any possible future reconciliation.

[catmandu57]

13. God, I'm so fucking tired

Five years, long dragging years, full of apprehension, unease, anxiety, I'm not in the mood to forgive right now. If these people can help cleanse the sickness from this country I may be in a forgiving mood.
Right now I'm just so damn tired of this fucking uniter and all the Ted Sandymans out there.

[babylonsister]

14. I think the rifts I've been involved in are irreparable.

That makes me sad, but I finally had to take a stand.

[cascadiance]

15. They have to be willing to "try it our way" for a change...

I don't want Republicans expecting us to roll over and "Republican Lite" our agenda just because the DLC says that we need to do so to get them on board. I think we should listen to them, to understand their concerns and perhaps try and make room for them where we can, but I don't want to sacrifice core Democratic values just to have them vote our way in 2006 and 2008! They should be told that you screwed up before when you voted for these guys. You now regret your choices. Don't force us to use your judgement now. Give us a shot at changing things and then measure how it works out after we can take over in 2006/2008.

Note the absolutes that we need to have happen when new leadership takes over:
1) First and foremost is cleaning up campaign financing. This means public financing and if possible if we have a big enough majority, perhaps constitutional ammendments saying that "free speech" can be controlled as far as election contributions so that it doesn't just equivalence money. Free speech should be about "free speech"...
2) Get rid of corporate personhood through legislation and/or constitutional ammendment. If the supremes want to challenge us on this, let 'em. It will point out how important it is to get in newer leadership to have newer justices on this court so that it isn't corporate owned.
3) Find intelligent ways to wind down our occupation of Iraq and instead of pouring more money into it, put more money into reinforcing veteran's benefits, etc. so that serving in our armed forces is an honorable thing to do again and isn't exploited any more to the point of it being under-staffed and resourced. Make it clear that we are going to not do more provocative incursions of countries like Iraq unless there is demonstrable PROOF that our nation is in danger from another country's activities. We need to solve issues with Iran differently than what is happening now.
4) Need to pull out of WTO/NAFTA/CAFTA unless they put in other measures to also allow for similar challenges not only for "free competition" of products, but also for fair and living wages for member countries too, so that we can have global base wages rise instead of falling to the bottom as companies "race to the bottom" with their outsourcing.
5) Reverse bills such as bankruptcy, or at least allow for exceptions for bankruptcy such as medical catastrophes, etc. where people aren't carelessly going bankrupt (as some are trying to make it sound like everyone is losing their money in Vegas carelessly, etc.). Reverse medicare bill so that it allows for competitive bidding.
6) Update the FCC and revisit the Telecomm act of the 1990's to put more restrictions on media consolidation and bring back some rendition of the fairness doctrine.

I could go on on many other issues, but if we do them right, and we state our real goals here in a way that even moderates can see that we are trying to empower THEM, instead of corporations to have voices in how we change policies, then we perhaps will get their votes. The last thing we should do is to pull back from our objectives just to get their votes! I really won't be able to accept people that demand we be "Republican Lite" either spiritually or practically. They need to have some form of humility for their "mistakes". If they do, I'll work with them, and in many case rekindle friendships with those that I might have had better relationships in the past with. But they have to understand that at this point, barring a major internal revolt in the Republican Party, the Republican Party is COMPLETELY dead to me, and I don't want to vote for ANYONE in it.

[RagingInMiami]

29. Exactly

I have a feeling that things are going to get worse, much worse, before we get our way. But hopefully, our way will be more permanent.

[EFerrari]

16. Next week? What about tomorrow morning?

The Thuggery has worked 40 years to get to here.

They have effectively co-opted the media but, they have succeeded too well. The average consumer has no long term memory for political events. Without massive election fraud, they will be tossed out on their cans in 2006 and 2008.

And you can count on massive elections fraud. :(

[RagingInMiami]

18. I know

We're in for the long haul. The fight is just getting started.

[EFerrari]

21. They're trying to wire CA. We need help out here.

If they take CA, well, it won't be good. :(

[RagingInMiami]

22. I've been keeping up with that

What do you think would happen if California suddenly went red in 2006?

[EFerrari]

23. It will, unless we stop it. :(

[RagingInMiami]

24. But there would have to be a revolt

Will Californians just accept it?

[EFerrari]

26. It's being sold to them. We need to get the word out.

You know, most people are just trying to make their bills.

They have no idea that they are being shafted.

We need to be LOUD and, we need help.

[RagingInMiami]

28. Freeway blogging

I'm thinking of starting something like that here

[EFerrari]

40. We're in a city and don't drive.

There must be a way to break it down, a precinct at a time. Even a block at a time.

If people knew that their vote was being discounted, if they really knew, hell would break loose.

[cynatnite]

20. My In-Laws were staunch repubs and bush supporters...

until Katrina.

They're hesitant to give up on the repub party. They've been members for a hell of a long time, but they want bush out. They don't care if it's by impeachment or election. They want him gone where he can't hurt anyone anymore.

I've known some repubs over the last year who changed their tune on bush.

I really don't think it benefits anyone to hold grudges like this. People will believe what they want and for some all the facts in the world won't change a damn thing. Sometimes it takes so little and sometimes it just never happens.

Either way, come election time, we'll need those disillusioned repubs who are finally waking up.

[hopeisaplace]

25. People stick to their political party like it's their favorite sports team

no rational behind it except, they picked their team and all they
want to do is root their team on no matter what. I find many people
decide their political affiliation without even knowing what the
fundamental differences are that separate one party from the next.
It's like watching football or something.

[RagingInMiami]

30. And it's mostly the right-wingers who are like that

To a sports fan who is ignorant about politics, the republicans look like the better team because they are more aggressive and they play dirty.

[hopeisaplace]

35. Exactly! you hit the nail on the head.

Perfectly said.

[cascadiance]

38. Actually I think many progressives don't feel that way...

I think it's more of a Republican Party thing than a Democratic Party thing... Not to say there aren't Democrats like this, but I feel the most important thing is the substance of what that party stands for. If the Democratic Party can't divorce itself from the DLC (who I do feel go against many of the principles I want the Democratic Party to stand for), and another party can offer a pragmatic alternative (which might not be in our lifetimes with our two party system that seems to be ingrained), I would consider moving to that party. I was an indpendent (though in spirit progressive for many years) up until last year when Dean took over.

I guess the only thing I really feel this way is that I will currently side with ANY entity that has a chance to beat the Republican Party (excepting perhaps a few like the KKK or something like that). Bernie Sanders and others like him will get my full support to shut down the Republicans any place I go. There might have been a few Republican candidates in the past I might have considered (like Jim Leach in Iowa City), but now I think that one has to vote against their party. Their party will compel them to do things when the chips are down that work against our interests, no matter how much they might not like it. Look at the so-called "pro-choice" Republicans in the Alito vote for cloture! They voted against their stated positions there to be with the Republican Party. That's why I feel for me the only thing that makes it like a football game is to pick any solution possible EXCEPT the Republican Party, but I'm not glued to the Democratic Party now the way they currently are set up.

[Katherine Brengle]

27. I think it depends on how much they change their minds---

if they are going to renounce Bush on national security but still hold on to the rest of their misguided beliefs, then the only good thing that will come of this is a more moderate Republican candidate in 2008.

If this is the catalyst for a complete rethinking, or the rethinking of many beliefs, and not just one, then there is room for a little extension of the olive branch action, imho.

[Texacrat]

31. If you've ended friendships and relationships over politics, ...

that's your own fault. Politics should be about discussing what's best for our country, getting others to agree with your point of view, and getting your guys elected. It should not be about destroying relationships.

[Binka]

34. That Is Extremely Naive And Very Self Righteous

A bit new to the forum to be swinging the RW talking points. This is a grown up forum where we deal with the harsh realities of what Bush has done to this country and to it's citizens. If that is too "REAL" for you maybe you should find another place to insult people.

BTW what does this mean...."getting your guys elected" shouldn't that be "our" guys cuz you are on our side...right?

[RagingInMiami]

39. First there is discussion

Then there is debate.

Then there is argument.

Then there is resentment.

That is when you say good-bye.

[erinlough]

42. Why would I stay connected

to people who shit all over everything I believe to my very core? That would be crazy, that would be cognitive dissonance to the "sick" degree. I will forgive when they change, but I don't even care about being around them when they do. My principals are the very basis of my life and my beliefs, when you violate them you violate me.

[Skittles]

33. I cannot forgive them

their greed, bigotry and ignorance has trashed my country and is getting people killed EVERY DAY

[Brewman_Jax]

36. Business as usual

if they have to be that deluded, ignorant, stupid, and--dare I say it--racist that they voted this idiot, and the idiots before them, to cause this in the first place, I don't know what to say for them. No forgiveness, no acceptance.

[DoYouEverWonder]

37. Anyone who turns against Bush

should be welcomed.

[wellst0nev0ter]

41. I'm Not Even Going To Forgive The Vichy Dems

let alone all the republitards who actively put this country in the back-assward state that its in. To paraphrase a favorite refrain of theirs during the wake of the last election, I'M NOT SORRY!