Iran: U.S., Israel Destroyed Iraqi Shrine

[tocqueville]

By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer
21 minutes ago

TEHRAN, Iran - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad blamed the United States and Israel on Thursday for the destruction of a Shiite shrine's golden dome in Iraq, saying it was the work of "defeated Zionists and occupiers."

Speaking to a crowd of thousands on a tour of southwestern Iran, the president referred to the destruction of the Askariya mosque dome in Samarra on Wednesday, which the Iraqi government has blamed on insurgents.

"They invade the shrine and bomb there because they oppose God and justice," Ahmadinejad said, alluding to the U.S.-led multinational forces in Iraq.

"These passive activities are the acts of a group of defeated Zionists and occupiers who intended to hit our emotions," he said in a speech that was broadcast on state television. Addressing the United States, he added: "You have to know that such an act will not save you from the anger of Muslim nations."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_iraq_shrine

[Benbow]

1. That is the most likely scenario, in my humble opinion n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

3. I am surprised!

NOT!

Of course it had to be the US or those every pesky Zionists!

But, wait! What about MI6?! Weren't British soldiers recently discovered carrying out a 'black-flag op' dressed as Arabs?! Maybe it was the British!

Why wait for facts to emerge...let's pass judgement now! :sarcasm:

[fujiyama]

4. Bush did it! Black Ops!

CIA! Mossad! :eyes: After all, Muslims don't kill each other. Nevermind Shiite mosques getting attacked or bombed in Pakistan....or the Sunnis being upset over not being in power...

I must say. To some posters on this site, Bush and the CIA seem almost Godlike. I mean, I'll never outright dismiss some covert actions or other involvement, but it's amazing how quickly people can jump to conclusions - and agree with the Ayotollah Khameni of all people!

[Behind the Aegis]

5. Yup!

I think we are in the same boat (maybe we will share the same cattle-car too). The idea that every bad action must lie at the feet of the US and Israel makes me ill. I don't discount, like you, that the possibility of 'black-flag ops' exist, but the idea that the US and Israel are always guilty makes me retch!

You are right though...some here will agree with anyone, including the likes of Buchanan, as long as it supports their hate of the US and Israel!

[Benbow]

29. Where did I say "always"? I didn't but I stand by what I said n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

73. I didn't say you said "always."

But, there is a group here that 'always' jumps to blame Israel when something happens, especially in the ME. I have no doubt you stand by what you said and stand by what the Iranian president said.

[coalition_unwilling]

23. You need to read up on the Phoenix Program during

the Vietnam era, before you so blithely dismiss the possibility of CIA black ops going on.

And try Graham Greene's "The Quiet American" for a fictional treatment of same.

After all, now we're going to need to maintain the occupation to be "peace keepers" (no matter that 7 U.S. soldiers have so far died today.)

[leftchick]

34. Operation Phoenix

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/operation_phoenix.htm

Until outlawed in mid 70s CIA directly involved in assassination attempts against Castro of Cuba, and Congolese leader Lumumba. CIA also encouraged plots that resulted in assassination of Dominican Republic President Trujillo, South Vietnamese president Ngo Dinh Diem in 63 and Chilean Rene Schneider in 73. Most extensive assassination op was Operation Phoenix conducted during latter part of VN war. Twentieth Century Fund. (1992). The Need to Know: Covert Action and American Democracy, 83.

.......

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. But that was assassinating people the CIA didn't like

which is completely different from an act designed to stir up hatred in the general population of a country you already control. Murderous chaos in Iraq really isn't good for Bush at the moment - it makes his policy look bad, and it disrupts the chances of making money in the country. If there were killings of Iraqis who speak out against the Americans, then the CIA would be a suspect.

[Benbow]

30. If you feel safe underestimating the power and malignance of Bush and the

CIA, I am sure that I am the last to want to puncture your deluded little bubble.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. Are you as safe in...

...underestimating the power and malignance of Blair and the MI6?

British "Black OPs"

[Benbow]

6. Think what you like - Israel executes Palestinians every day without trial

[Behind the Aegis]

7. I am sorry...was this about I/P?

Nope! Nice diversion attempt though!

So, what about those British, dressed as Muslims? Think they could have done it?

On edit: "Israel executes Palestinians every day without trial" That's just bullshit!

[aquart]

9. Not a single link to enforce your claim? Not one?

Why, I'd have thought you'd come riddled with documentation. Not one link? Afraid we'll notice where your information is from?

They crawl out from under their rocks after midnight.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. Of course not!

Why provide proof? We all know Israel and the Jews are responsible for (insert disaster...terrorist attack...other act)! :eyes: and a large dose of :sarcasm:

You, silly...don't you know it's always the Jews!

[aquart]

12. Yup. Perhaps he can provide the number of Palestinian buses

blown up by Israelis.

I'm sure it's a nice round sum.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. SHE! Not, he!

Yes, I am sure we are in for a real treat on how Palestinians are murdered every day by Israelis. Although, even the 'peace' sites won't even support that assertion.

Don't forget...Israel is the new Nazi Germany...or the Apartheid South Africa...or the....well, shit, I get so confused because Israel is often compared to every evil empire known to man. OH! Maybe it is the new Iraq, and the US will invade and "give them democracy!" I bet that would wet the panties of a few posters here!

[Charlie Brown]

22. Yes, Ahmadinejad's sentiments appear popular around here

I get really put off by all the anti-Israel sentiments in many of these threads. Whenever the Isreali government takes out a legitimate security threat or returns fire on Palestinians, they're derided here as "executioners" and "criminals" while the Palestinians are always the innocent victims, even when the whole incident is started by their side.

When posters like that jump on board with the Ayatollahs, there's something seriously wrong with their sense of right and wrong.

Did you see the "are Israel and the UAE related" thread that popped up yesterday? Sheesh.

[Clark2008]

18. "Pesky" Zionists?

I'm withholding judgment on the Iraqi mosque bombing, but, as the wife of a Jewish man, I can honestly say that extreme Zionism is doing it's fair share of ruining any peace in the Middle East. The hubby agrees, btw.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Interesting

As a Zionist, and a Jew, I find crap like this offensive. Perhaps he doesn't. That is his right. Know this though...when they come for the Jews again, your hubby and I will share the same cattle-car!

Do you know what Zionism is? You say "extreme" Zionism in your post. Are you referring to the "Protocols?"

I have seen many of your posts, the divorcee of a Palestinian and the current wife of a Jew. Do you condemn anti-Semitism as strongly as you condemn Islamaphobia? Because, to be honest, I haven't seen it!

[wuushew]

24. As a Zionist could you please define Zionism?

The logic of establishing a densely populated state in the Middle East beyond which is environmentally sustainable in the long run and after the dawn of the atomic era strikes me as bizarre.

Also from studying extinctions of others cultures was establishment of a singular state of Israel the best solution to preserving the genetic and cultural legacy of the Jews? Seems like a case of putting all your eggs in one basket.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. All though different terms exist...

....most of the Zionists you will find here define ourselves this way...

"Since the founding of the State of Israel, the term Zionism has come generally to mean support for Israel."

on edit: Thanks to Emit for pointing out the link was screwed up! I apologize for that! It should work now. :)

[Emit]

27. Can you fix your link?

I'm curious where you were trying to link to. Thanks.

[malaise]

32. Have you ever blamed Israel

for anything? Just wondering because I have never seen you condemn the slaughter of Palestinians. Whose car was blown up last night and why? Who died? Where's the evidence?

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Have you ever blamed anyone BUT Israel (or the US)?

I am just wondering as you seem to be OK with being a terror apologist, as long as it is not Israel.

[malaise]

46. Oh yes I've blamed the Brits

for an awful lot of the confusion on the planet. And more than a few leaders have been enemies of their own states.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. Including your own?

[malaise]

55. Absolutely n/t

[Benbow]

28. Just come out of your cave, for once n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

39. How about you do the same?

On edit: While you are crawling out of your cave...do comment on this...The new British anti-Semitism

[Yupster]

66. After careful study and reflection,

Iran blames the Jews.

Who would have ever thought.

[aquart]

8. Yeah, it's a plot by the evil Jews.

Who always want to encourage the destruction of sacred monuments and shrines. Yeah, because we'll have succeeded beyond our wildest dreams when some frigging idiot blows up what's left of the Wailing Wall in retaliation.

What other monuments and shrines have we destroyed, darling? In your brilliant opinion?

They always crawl out from under their rocks after midnight.

[cali]

10. I'll pile on.

It's highly unlikely that Israel or the US did this, but the eagerness of some to beleve that virtually every evil or tragic thing that happens in the world, can be attributed to bushco/ Israel/neocons, is always amusing. Heck, I remember last year when some on this board believed the usual suspects caused the tsunami.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. Haha!

The tsunami conspiracies were the best. Plate tectonics is nothing more than a PNAC plot!

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Pile away!

I am sure you use "amusing" in the sarcastic sense. But, for those of us who are Jews, this crap is not at all funny.

Believe it or not, I have had someone here tell me that "liberals" can't be anti-Semitic (they also say I am a Mossad agent..if that is true, those fuckers owe me some serious back pay). These are usually the same ones that attack anything about Israel (not that is always an indication of anti-Semitism). Did you miss the thread about the UAE being a front for Israel/US?

Oh, I am sure there will be the ones to come along saying I am 'conflating' Israel with Jews. Funny (ironic, not "ha-ha"), how they can conflate the two, but when a Jew does it...well, it is us playing up our victimization!

[cali]

19. Sometimes it's more effective to

laugh than to be outraged. In any case, I'm sorta Jewish- my father was. I rarely participate on the I/P threads because it's so toxic over there. Both sides seem to do what their accusing the other side of doing. I actually don't have as much of a problem with hypocricy as many people do: I'm with E.M. Forester who said "Only hypocrites can never forgive hypocricy", but all the entrenchment over in I/P is inpenatrable to me.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Humor is great.

I agree that sometimes it is better to laugh than wretch.

But, I know that I and other Jews recoil at some of the things we see here. American Jews are some of the most progressive people ever. Yet, we get to come here and see how we are responsible for the ills of the world. We get to come here and see that Israel is to blame for all evils in the ME...nay...the world! We get to come here and be called racists because we are Zionists. We get to be called Islamaphobics because Israel doesn't jump into the sea. We get to come here and see that we are just "over-sensitive." We get to see that we are not real citizens, only loyal to Israel.

So, yes, humor can be great. But, when you are the butt of the joke (the reason for the troubles), it is not as funny.

[Dutch]

36. Agreed

That people swallow such crap is one of those things that's simultaneously amusing and depressing.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Typical...

...The Jews did it, with their puppets, the Americans. :eyes:

I am so glad to know that this will be the accepted version of the "real" events, barring any real proof, for a few here. :sarcasm:

[peanutbrittle]

16. It makes no sense to me that

Religious fundamentalists would destroy their own houses of worship....no matter which sect of Muslim religion. Am I missing something?

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Yes. You are missing something.

"Religious fundamentalists would destroy there own houses of worship....no matter which sect of Muslim religion."

Would this be any different than those who burned churches in the 50's and 60's because they were "Black" churches? Hell, look what is happening now in the US.

[onenote]

25. love these armchair quarterbacks

who have zero first hand knowledge of the situation in Iraq but who presume to know that the Sunni's would never blow up a Shiite shrine and thus it must be the US/Israel, a view also expounded upon by the nutjob running Iran who would blame male pattern baldness on US/Israel if the opportunity arose.

Meanwhile, those poor dupes, the Iraqis, don't blame the US or Israel, but immediately go after each other, because, of course, they are so far removed from the situation and/or so stupid that they can't see what's going on.

I swear, tinfoil poisoning is rampant among some people.

onenote

[VolcanoJen]

31. For what it's worth...

... I think the president of Iran is, has been, and remains a raving lunatic.

[malaise]

33. He may well be but

I suggest you deal with your own US lunatic who violated international law and is slaughtering people in their homeland

[Dutch]

35. The fact that she posts here suggests she already does that

I'd say it's the responsibility of all progressives everywhere to oppose the vile administrations in both DC and Tehran with the greatest vigour.

[malaise]

37. I really don't know how vile the

Iran president really is since I only have the word of the corporate media. I do know about Bushco.

You are correct that DUers are opposed to Bushco, but there are other vile administrations.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Oh?

So the corporate media can tell you how vile Bush is but not the Iranian President? Is Iranian press also corporate media?

Well, of course it is! It just seems to be the corporate media you tend to agree with.

[malaise]

41. By his deeds shall a man

be known. I do not need to corporate media to tell me about Buscho. I also know how the Palestinians have been treated in their homeland.
My maternal grandmother was Jewish and she often quoted Confucius: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. And yet..this is not about the Palestinians....

...just Jew-hating propaganda.

I am descended from an Indian princess. :sarcasm:

[malaise]

54. Are you really

Double that :sarcasm: :sarcasm: because it won't change my roots.

[bpilgrim]

40. a likely scenario - DIVIDE -n- CONQUER is an old empire maxim

better than having them united against us... and never forget that the chaos is the neoCONs only talking point for remaining there.

i added the shrine images to my 'No Bravery' video...
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com

peace

[Behind the Aegis]

44. and yet...

...that doesn't seem to be the case.

No Muslim is smart enough to create chaos, huh? :sarcasm:

[bpilgrim]

48. Popular response to Samarra bombing has been to blame the U.S. occupation

Friday February 24, 2006
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1716754,00.html

It has not been Sunni religious symbols that hundreds of thousands of angry marchers protesting at the bombing of the shrine have targeted, but US flags. The slogan that united them on Wednesday was: "Kalla, kalla Amrica, kalla kalla lill-irhab" - no to America, no to terrorism. The Shia clerics most listened to by young militants swiftly blamed the occupation for the bombing. They included Moqtada al-Sadr; Nasrallah, leader of Hizbullah in Lebanon; Ayatollah Khalisi, leader of the Iraqi National Foundation Congress; and Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran's spiritual leader. Along with Grand Ayatollah Sistani, they also declared it a grave "sin" to attack Sunnis - as did all the Sunni clerics about attacks on Shias. Sadr was reported by the BBC as calling for revenge on Sunnis - in fact, he said "no Sunni would do this" and called for revenge on the occupation.

None of the mostly spontaneous protest marches were directed at Sunni mosques. Near the bombed shrine itself, local Sunnis joined the city's minority Shias to denounce the occupation and accuse it of sharing responsibility for the outrage. In Kut, a march led by Sadr's Mahdi army burned US and Israeli flags. In Baghdad's Sadr City, the anti-occupation march was massive.

There was a string of armed attacks on Sunni mosques in the wake of the bombing but none of them was carried out by the protesters. Reports suggest that they were the work of masked gunmen. Since then there has been an escalation of well-organised murders, some sectarian, some targeting mixed groups, such as yesterday's killing of 47 workers near Baquba.

But as live coverage of Wednesday's demonstrations on Iraqi and Arab satellite TV stations clearly showed, the popular mood has been anti-occupation rather than sectarian. Iraq is awash with rumours about the collusion of the occupation forces and their Iraqi clients with sectarian attacks and death squads: the US is widely seen as fostering sectarian division to prevent the emergence of a united national resistance. Evidence of their involvement in Wednesday's anti-Sunni reprisals was picked up in the Times, which reported that after an armed attack on the al-Quds Sunni mosque in Baghdad the gunmen climbed back into six cars and were ushered from the scene by cheering soldiers of the US-controlled Iraqi National Guard.

full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1716754,00.html

peace

[Behind the Aegis]

51. Whoosh!

Missed it again didn't you?

[susu369]

47. Thank you for link to "No Bravery" video

no words.

[bpilgrim]

56. no worries

:hi:

peace

[Spider Jerusalem]

52. Interesting...

the psychopathic, Jew-baiting president of Iran makes a patently absurd and typically anti-Semitic remark, and a surprising number of responses (surprising in that it's more than zero, although I suppose, sadly, that it shouldn't be surprising), instead of dismissing his lunacy for what it is, find his words plausible...and this in a supposedly 'progressive' forum.

Agreeing with a man who said 'Israel should be wiped from the map' doesn't exactly make you people look good, you know.

[malaise]

53. I'm inclined to agree with you that

the Western translation of what he is supposed to have said suggests he is a lunatic, but who has he killed? Was he judge, jury and executioner to any Jews last night because I saw some news about such a happening which killed some more Palestinians? Has he put up a wall around citizens in their own country yet?

Talk is one thing and there are many lunatic rants, but I judge more on deeds and to date he is clearly less of a lunatic than the governments of the US and Israel.
Sp. Gr.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. ...

Was he judge, jury and executioner to any Jews last night because I saw some news about such a happening which killed some more Palestinians?
I saw the same thing; oddly enough, the news stories I've seen all mention that the Palestinians opened fire first, in one incident, and in the other were attempting to plant explosives; are the Israelis just supposed to say 'all right, lads, we'll let you kill us, go right ahead...no, we won't try to stop you...'? The militants on both sides make continued violence inevitable. Hamas et al would be better served if they took a leaf from the IRA's playbook and renounced terrorism. They need a Gerry Adams, not a new Arafat.

Has he put up a wall around citizens in their own country yet?
Pending resolution of the question of the occupied territories, and recognition of Palestinian statehood, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have no country and are not citizens; they are displaced persons. It may not be right or just, but that's the way things are under current international law.

[malaise]

58. Like I said

judge, jury and executioner. Because they said that is what happened does not mean that is what happened.

Interesting that international law is recognized in this instance.

[Dorian Gray]

62. The Western Translation?

The Western Translation? So you are purporting that he didn't mean that Israel should be wiped off the planet? That it is just a Western Translation that led us to believe that's what he meant?

[malaise]

70. Talk is cheap

Has Palestine been wiped off the face of the earth? That isn't talk.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. Interesting, in the sick sense of the word.

"...and a surprising number of responses (surprising in that it's more than zero, although I suppose, sadly, that it shouldn't be surprising), instead of dismissing his lunacy for what it is, find his words plausible...and this in a supposedly 'progressive' forum."

And some here still wonder why some Jews here are a little pissed off? I find it as distressing as those who 'excuse' terrorism.

[Balbus]

59. Oh no!!! It's the Joooooooos!!!

[Cascadian]

60. I am telling you. We are on a collision course.

Read my recent post about Iran and the U.S.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x505937


It really would not hurt if we got our people out of Iraq now.



John

[mtnester]

61. If this were proven to be true, would I be surprised at all?

No.

Outraged, pissed, embarrassed for my country, pissed, appalled, indignant, pissed, pissed, pissed but NEVER surprised.

[genie_weenie]

63. Instead of wallowing in vague conspiracy theories

Why not engage in some rational thought, sit down and think of what would be needed for the US to engage in an attack of this nature?

1) We know it can not have been US forces, in standard uniforms.

2) So therefore, it had to be "undercover agents", working for the CIA or duped by the CIA.

3) These "agents" would have to be either Iraqis, foreign born muslims or foreign born-non-muslims.

4) Think of the logistical problems with infiltrating a foreign-born non muslim into a holy Shrine, Iraqis are
also very tribal so when an outsider comes into a city like Samara, people will know.

5) The Iraqi Police are simply comprised of Iraqi citizens who need a job or are purposely infiltrating. Either of those persons could possibly be convinced to conduct a attack like this (Theological grounds or monetary).

6) While the shrines in Samara are Shia, the city is mainly comprised of Sunni Muslim Arabs.

7) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (Born in Jordan or a CIA created bogeyman) does not believe Shiites are Muslims, the Shia are as much Infidels, Kafr and Harum as Westerners. Even if AMZ does not exist, there are Fanatics who believe the ideology ascribed to him. During Ashura in 2004 and 2005 there were attacks on Shia pilgrims by Sunnis.

8) Obviously, Mosques are not sacred to all Muslims, since post-Shrine attack Sunni Mosques have been attacked, unless of course, those were all CIA ops as well.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=22471

9) My conclusion. The Shrine was attacked by Sunni Muslims who do not view the Shia as fellow Muslims but apostates and infidels. Their motivation and end goals are up for debate, turn all Muslims against the US, provide a rallying cry for fanatics against the Shia, wanton destruction, purity of the faith, whatever...

I leave it to anyone willing to read this much of my post on this long thread to determine what he/she thinks.

Now, there is no doubt the US is going to be blamed, it is always more convenient to choose a scapegoat than look deep into ones own differences.

"I and my brother against my cousin. But I, my brother and my cousin against the outsider." ~ Arab proverb

So, if this was a BushCo plot it's going to turn out like everything else * has done, badly. It will increase violence, more Muslims will hate the US, it will give common cause to some Muslims to join together against US.

[rman]

64. "I and my brother against my cousin...

...But I, my brother and my cousin against the outsider." ~ Arab proverb

"So, if this was a BushCo plot it's going to turn out like everything else * has done, badly. It will increase violence, more Muslims will hate the US, it will give common cause to some Muslims to join together against US."



The odd thing is, Iraqis already were united against the intruders - until a few days ago.


Moreover. i'd rather go on facts than on "logic", since according to logic, many scenarios are possible, while presumably only one scenario is reality.

In this case very few facts on this matter are available. Otoh history shows that false-flag ops are not exactly exceptions.

[genie_weenie]

68. I don't think Iraqis were united against US

Kurds and Sunni Arabs have not united to drive out the invader, the city of Kirkuk is a huge obstacle to the future of Iraq.

In case you didn't know, Kirkuk is claimed as the rightful captial and city of the Kurds, Saddam forced out tens of thousands and gave their lands and homes to Sunni Arabs. Standard tactic since the time of the Romans, displace and disperse the indengious populace, repopulate with "your" people. And (perhaps more imprtantly depending on how cyncial you are) Kirkuk and the surrounding area have 2/3 of the oil reserves of Iraq. No Iraqi wants to lose that commodity.

Also Assyrians, Chaldeans, Turkomans, are not likely to side with Sunni Arabs. this is of course not to discount their hating us, but I don't recall anyone saying we had a hand in the 4 Christian (Nestorian Church I believe) Churches that were blown up in Mosul.

Why not? Wouldn't that drive a wedge between "Iraqis"?

So, I'm just flabbergasted at the amount of DUers who will speculate wildly and not look at facts.

Anyway, besides maybe you rman no one will ever read this post...

[rman]

71. I wouldn't be surprised if those who benefit most

from division between Iraqis, also blew up those Christian churches. If no-one else is saying it; i will.

As to driving out the invaders: someone's blowing up those pipelines.

When was it that Saddam repopulated Kirkuk? I mean, there has been a time when he did play ball with the US. And i don't think it's far-fetched to think that "the Romans" do enter in alliances of convenience and have the allies do some of the dirty work for them.

[genie_weenie]

72. The Iran Iraq did alot of damage up north as well as south

Well, the Kurds are one of those ethnic groups that was caught between the machinations of "Great Powers" The Ottomans and British. During the 80s, Saddam started and post Gulf War I he really turned up the heat on the Kurds as well as the Shia.

As for our involvement with Saddam, I really wasn't cognizant of politics until the late 80s and Bush 41. But Operation Northern Watch was designed to keep Saddam from killing the Kurds. Of course, this merely was the changing alliances as mandated by the revolting dictum, "No eternal allies, only eternal interests".

Unfortunately, we are going to end up screwing the Kurds because our "ally" Turkey will never allow Kurdistan back on the map. But, that topic is really involved in the fact that Democracy is not the goal of any world leader, maintaining the status quo and deluding the peoples of the world into believing they have governments that are on their side is...

This gives a little background on the Kurds:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/kurds/

[Oilwellian]

65. The Western translation really doesn't matter

What DOES matter is the Shia in Iraq WILL believe the story. THAT is the issue. We are so fucked.

[NNN0LHI]

67. Whether some of us like it or not anything that happens in Iraq is the...

...responsibility of the occupying country who happens to be us.

Don

[jsamuel]

69. "they oppose God and justice" - this guy REALLY sounds like Bush

"they hate our freedom"

[PassingThrough]

75. Pffft, they blame us for everything.

[Generator]

76. Yeah and the Holocaust never happened according to him

And Du'ers that think the Iraqi civil war is good for the admin and Bush I think are thinking way too hard. The chaos in Iraq is horrible for the Iraqi people, horrible for our soldiers and those that are there supporting our soldiers. But it's the end of the neo-con uptopian fantasy. We cannot shove Democracy or anything else down people's throats by force, torture and especially not based on a false premise-which this war is based on. We can't even profit from it in the long run. Yeah, Haliburton, the pentagon and a few other companies are being made richer by it. But it's bankrupting America. We don't have a fucking clue into understanding this culture or the middle east. There is no way for anyone to come out of this a winner. It's only going to get worse. We hardly need to bomb mosques ourselves to make it happen. It was an inveitable outcome.